"Very well, I will speak my piece plainly..." T4 Rants, Rumour & Suggestions Thread

[contrarian]

Maybe if I take GUNKSPRAY'S (gets award for best member name) last sentence, plug it into Google translate, and post it this way, maybe we'll get some results.

Je souhaite juste que une sorte de dialogue entre les décideurs et les acteurs allait commencer.

[Gunkspray]

Thanks contrarian. At one point a long time ago I tried to get in front of Eidos Montreal on twitter but they were definitely not willing to share information. They will respond to @ replies though.

[fbdbh]

Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity

Remember what happened when we got one photo of someone playtesting some game that might or might not be Thief 4? That release was almost nothing, and it was huge, because it was (might have been) the first "anything" we got. A long wait doesn't necessarily create disappointment. It just makes any small bit of news bigger.

I remember, and the whole forum went "ugh multiplayer, ugh timer, ugh 3rd person"

[fbdbh]

What I fear most is the next-gen transition (as I recall the first titles of a new generation always have problems and then everybody complains why they couldn't make it previous gen, more solid, etc).

On the other hand, Beyond Good & Evil 2 was announced in 2008, and Ancel just confirmed that they're developing for the next gen. So it is possible. But that would mean that we can't expect anything before 2014. Which is quite sad. I'm gonna have kids by then.

[BigBoss]

Originally Posted by Viktoria

Indeed... but its all part of a grand plan already laid into place, I guess.

That's the "I will say whatever is necessary to make EM look good" plan.

Originally Posted by Viktoria

I wouldn't call it power... it's only ensuring that everybody follows the ToU.
It's a thankless job, that's an honest appraisal. I do it for my taffers... and I'm happy to be their punchbag if it helps.

It wasn't some burden you modestly took up after people were asking for it, the people who were on here since the beginning have said when they were looking for mods, you begged for it. Don't act like that was "for your taffers." You can close any thread that bothers you and can flat out delete any posts that you don't like. If people talk back too much, you can give them infractions or even ban them temporarily/permanently. It was power over a small group of people and you wanted it

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by BigBoss

That's the "I will say whatever is necessary to make EM look good" plan.

Not really. Obviously its logical to assume some sort of plan has been put into place.

It wasn't some burden you modestly took up after people were asking for it, the people who were on here since the beginning have said when they were looking for mods, you begged for it.

No I didn't beg for anything. People who ask to become mods don't get to be one. It's in the FAQs.

Don't act like that was "for your taffers." You can close any thread that bothers you and can flat out delete any posts that you don't like. If people talk back too much, you can give them infractions or even ban them temporarily/permanently. It was power over a small group of people and you wanted it

You misinterpret the role of a moderator. We can't go closing or editing threads that 'bother' us personally; all we do is ensure the ToU is being respected by everyone.
Nope. I've never wanted power... it's not really part of my personality, lol.

Anyway, if you have some personal issue with me please take it to PM. This thread is for voting our favourite question..

[BigBoss]

Originally Posted by Viktoria

Not really. Obviously its logical to assume some sort of plan has been put into place. [/COLOR]

No, if you say one thing and then say the complete opposite based on nothing, that just means you lose credibility.

Originally Posted by Viktoria

No I didn't beg for anything. People who ask to become mods don't get to be one. It's in the FAQs.

That may be the case for people now, but I heard different, from much more credible sources than you. (see above)

Originally Posted by Viktoria

You misinterpret the role of a moderator. We can't go closing or editing threads that 'bother' us personally; all we do is ensure the ToU is being respected by everyone.
Nope. I've never wanted power... it's not really part of my personality, lol.

Anyway, if you have some personal issue with me please take it to PM. This thread is for voting our favourite question..

You brought it up in the first place and it's nothing personal. If any mod was saying what you're saying I'd call them out on it. It's just stupid that you act like it's a burden to be a mod and say stuff like "I've never wanted power... it's not really part of my personality, lol" when that is clearly not the case. If it played out the way you say it did, you would have either refused the offer or relinquish your position. Why don't you? Because you like having the power. People don't just sign up to be a "punching bag" as you put it on a forum if they didn't like the perks.

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by BigBoss

No, if you say one thing and then say the complete opposite based on nothing, that just means you lose credibility.

I don't have any credibility to lose though, lol. I know nothing more than you guys... all I do is pass on anything that Kyle says... or any other official member of staff. I don't say anything new.

That may be the case for people now, but I heard different, from much more credible sources than you. (see above)

Impossible! I know I didn't beg for it.
See above.

You brought it up in the first place and it's nothing personal. If any mod was saying what you're saying I'd call them out on it. It's just stupid that you act like it's a burden to be a mod and say stuff like "I've never wanted power... it's not really part of my personality, lol" when that is clearly not the case. If it played out the way you say it did, you would have either refused the offer or relinquish your position. Why don't you? Because you like having the power. People don't just sign up to be a "punching bag" as you put it on a forum if they didn't like the perks.

You misinterpret me when you say I act like it is a burden to be a mod... I'm not being serious. . I just said that you have to be happy to be a punchbag... and you do, as your posts clearly demonstrate.

PS. What perks? LOL.
I agreed to mod because I like the two games Deus Ex and Thief. That's it. I'm just a fan.



Again... this is so off topic. If you want to rant at me, let's go do so in the rants thread.
I'll move our posts into there shortly.

[dsung]

TDS told us that power belongs to people who do not want them to have for a greater balance. I think Viktoria might be the only "True Moderator", then.

[Viktoria]

Hehe, that's a nice, romantic way to view it, I guess.

But, alas, I'm just a taffer like any other; just a humble... but real... fan.
Wait... maybe I'm the one true fan?

But I'm pretty sure contrarian will have something to say about that... right, contrarian?

[contrarian]

I heard my name whispered on the winds, drawing me here. Aha!

The One True Fan? No. For that matter, neither am I. There is no such thing. I feel qualified to say so, as I am the originator of that term. Seeking copyright protection at this very moment.

As I once said before, once one has reached the pinnacle of True Fandom, one can go no higher and there is no distinction amongst True Fans.

Welcome to the club. Wait, I think you were here all along.

[Morgan Wight]

Originally Posted by contrarian

As I once said before, once one has reached the pinnacle of True Fandom, one can go no higher and there is no distinction amongst True Fans.

No distinction amongst the enlightened? You may be opening up a theological can of worms here . . .

In any event, what are your thoughts on Thief's absence from Square Eenix's E3 lineup according to this listing: http://games.ign.com/articles/122/1224202p1.html ?

If EM is a no-show, I hope you won't still follow through on the whole deleting your account wager!

[fbdbh]

Speaking of fans... I wonder about in-world fans. I mean not the way Duke Nukem Forever presented, but what if Garrett had a fan? In the actual game? A stalker. An imitator. Or something like that.

The Dark Knight touched on this issue, but I think it would be logical to assume, people heard of Garrett and some of them might see him as a hero.

I wouldn't bother with this in the main story, though, but it would be nice to encounter something like that

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Morgan Wight

If EM is a no-show, I hope you won't still follow through on the whole deleting your account wager!

I think he's too cool to do that, hehe.

[contrarian]

Dang it, I knew someone would remember that. Thanks for reminding us all, MORGAN. The list angers me. It is the virtual monkey-wrench thrown into my gears.

I'll wait a week or so, since E3 is an "insiders only" event, it may take a while before news gets out. But yes, I WILL delete this account if E3 is a total bust.

I will proclaim Thief 4 as total Vaporware, I will probably rant to the point of acquiring a half dozen infractions, if not totally being banned, and then I will question my skills as a prophet.

There will be no reason to continue giving my valuable time to Vaporware used as a springboard for more successful titles (If E3 is a bust) and I will slink into the shadows, never to be seen again.

[Caranfin]

Is it wrong that I think contrarian is the funniest poster on these forums?

[Vladimyre]

Originally Posted by Caranfin

Is it wrong that I think contrarian is the funniest poster on these forums?

At least I'm not the only one who thinks so...

V

[dda]

How does one delete their account in this forum?

[Morgan Wight]

Originally Posted by contrarian

Dang it, I knew someone would remember that. Thanks for reminding us all, MORGAN.

I think EVERYONE remembered that. It would be hard not to take note of such a bold wager!

Originally Posted by contrarian

I will slink into the shadows, never to be seen again.

Originally Posted by Caranfin

Is it wrong that I think contrarian is the funniest poster on these forums?

No Caranfin, it is right and proper to think this.

[@m]

Originally Posted by dda

How does one delete their account in this forum?

You can't do it yourself. You would have to ask an admin to delete/disable it.

[contrarian]

Then I will kindly ask admin to close this account on Friday June 22, 2012 if E3 is a bust.

DARKNESSFALLS, if no substantial info at E3 (which is very unlikely) I will turn in my cowl in favor of Assassin's garb. My new Creed will be that of an Assassin, after all, I kind of played Thief that way. I killed every living thing (if allowed) before I scoured every nook and cranny of that level. Of course, I killed them from behind...they never knew what hit 'em.

btw DF, phenomenal artwork you do. As an Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator aficionado, I appreciate good art.

Funny thing is, I never been to any other forums to talk about games that I loved. I never uttered one word about GTA or Skyrim or Star Wars KotOR. Thief is it for me.

Eidos Montreal, I implore you to come through at E3.

[Blue Sky]

I found this interview with the fans remaking Half-Life in the Source engine interesting in terms of them realising they should not reveal development of the project until they were nearer to completion:

There was a point where we realized we had a long road ahead, and we weren’t quite sure where the end was. It became clear to us that it would be better to stop whipping the public into a frenzy, stop getting them excited, and more or less allow them to forget about us for a bit while we figured out how to finish the game.

Many people have seen this as a betrayal – as us turning our backs on them – but it couldn’t be farther from the truth. It has helped us focus more on development and get things done faster. It has relieved us from the tremendous social pressures we had on us, and it has allowed us to make clearer decisions. It has also allowed the public to take a breather, and to realize that Black Mesa wasn’t coming any day now, but was going to take a bit longer than that.

If you think about it in terms of a triple-A dev, it isn’t just about “saving things up” for marketing. It’s about not disappointing fans with news you can’t stick to. Just don’t say anything until you are absolutely sure that you can deliver on that. Being completely transparent throughout your entire development process is the opposite of that; it’s an easy way to disappoint your fans, because you won’t do everything right the first time, you won’t make perfect predictions, you will fail and make mistakes, state things you want to do and then not deliver. And every time you do, you will disappoint your fans.

Thought it was applicable to our situation here! During the development of Thief 3 we were promised so much, and very little of that came true, and that was upsetting. People on TTLG still curse Ken Levine for telling them about features he promised would be in Bioshock which then weren't. And there's been several big games which have shown so much and then not delivered (easy examples, Daikotana, Duke Nukem Forever, etc).

Marketing begins when the game's shape and form is most ready. Hopefully it will start for Thief 4 soon.

[contrarian]

Here's the thing though, we're not asking (at least I'm not) to see some marketing campaign. We're not asking to see a trailer, complete with actual gameplay.

Most reasonable people here are just asking to see or hear something more than, "Thief 4 is currently in development. Thank you for your continued interest." After 3 years of nothing more than that, that is just insulting. And you have to ask yourself, why did EM rush to the "presses" in 09 to say that they are going to work on Thief. Why did they jump up on their pulpit and virtually shout as loud as they could that Thief 4 was in pre-development, only to disappear, never to be heard from again?

Unprecedented.

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by contrarian

Here's the thing though, we're not asking (at least I'm not) to see some marketing campaign. We're not asking to see a trailer, complete with actual gameplay.

I think most people are asking for those things! I know I am!

And you have to ask yourself, why did EM rush to the "presses" in 09 to say that they are going to work on Thief. Why did they jump up on their pulpit and virtually shout as loud as they could that Thief 4 was in pre-development, only to disappear, never to be heard from again?

Unprecedented.

Well, it's fairly standard practise for games companies to announce a title then not reveal anything about it until the main marketing campaign begins, usually years later. E.g., look at the new Hitman game, also published by Square Enix. That was officially announced as being in development in May 2009, but nothing more was heard about it until May 2011 when the game and its name was officially unveiled with a teaser trailer. Now, it's true that Hitman Absolution had been in development for a couple of years before it was announced...

BUT!

Remember that we were told several times that the reason Thief 4 was announced straight way at the beginning of development was so that in the early months fans could talk on this forum about things they would like to see in the game, and the developers would have a look at them. We can but presume that during those first few months they were looking at the posts in this forum, and making notes.

Some say the forum should have been shut down after that, and maybe it should've. Or perhaps they should have sent a little message saying, "thanks everyone for your feedback, we're going to take what's been said and hopefully feed it into our own vision for the game. You can still use the forum if you like, but there'll be no news for a considerable amount of time now". That would've been nice, it's true, I can't deny that.

But all the claims that the game is behind schedule, delayed, turned into vapourware, etc, have no basis in fact. If we look at the development cycles of other Square Enix titles (eg, Hitman Absolution and the new Tomb Raider), they both started development a year before Thief 4 and are coming out this year, a year after their marketing campaign started. So fingers crossed the marketing will start for Thief 4 this year, for a release in 2013.

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Blue Sky

Thought it was applicable to our situation here! During the development of Thief 3 we were promised so much, and very little of that came true, and that was upsetting.

I don't remember... what exactly was promised and wasn't delivered? And I'm not talking about swimming or rope arrows, because those were default expectations, not broken promises. The only thing I can think of right now is "Thief III". That was promised, but Deadly Shadows was released instead. I don't recall any features that were hyped and then cut.

I mean, they promised an open world free roam and then delivered a small town the size of Gervaisius' house, but that feature still made it into the game in some way at least.