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Old 12-20-2011, 06:42 AM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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Default Original Nosgoth Timeline

The "Ancients" were of the demon dimension. They had travelled there aided by the Oracle they served, their demon god who only Raziel could see beneath the Vampire Citadel.

This is why only the Ancients could create pillars to seal the hylden back in their demon realm, where they all came from, into the human world. The Ancients were the more benevolent of demons, since they had to fool the humans into becoming servants of the Oracle, as they were ever since they invaded Nosgoth from the demon plane.

This is why only vampires were skilled enough to serve the pillars, and close the gate to the demon dimension. Humans being the only natives to Nosgoth, were unable to serve the pillars, and close the gate to a foreign world.

As a sign of their servitude to the Wheel of Fate, the Oracle gifted his chosen demons with blue skin and black feathery wings. When Janos was weakened by the Hylden General enough to lose his ancient blood, he reverted to his original form, before he entered Nosgoth, that of a Beast, native only to the demon dimension. This is why he was meant to return to that plane of banishment all over again, since that was the origin of the Ancients with their Oracle, and the Hylden themselves.

Since the Hylden were rivals of the Oracle, they used different ways to leach the humans, with Glyph runes. Whereas the Oracle used mortality and death, to parasitise the wandering souls of humans in Nosgoth. They were both predators, fighting to overtake all life on Nosgoth.

After the timeline has been changed enough, those who have been a part of the original timeline, and involved in the story within the successive paradoxes and warped histories, have kept our interest, because our experience drives us to our original past or "present" as it should have been.

That is why Raziel and Kain could essentially save Nosgoth, because they were truly natives there, as humans who became vampires. Their true mission was to save Nosgoth from both the Ancients and the Hylden, as they were only parasites from the demon dimension.

In this present temporary history, the demon gate opened using the Nexus Stone, by the Hylden General, is still opened. This allows the Hylden here to take human form, as they do in Blood Omen 2, and serve secretly as the Glyph Wraiths. When in subterranean lairs, they freely revert to their Hylden forms.

Whoever brought on this timeline, made sure to even change certain aspects of Nosgoth, so much so that we believe we're on some world named "Earth", and cannot recognise even the details from the Legacy of Kain, that have been changed.

Raziel must still be alive, since only his soul sealed within the Blood Reaver, can clash with another version of himself, weilded by someone else, to create the paradox that can reshuffle history. Somewhere in this changed Nosgoth, two Soul Reavers, both holding a Raziel inside them, is hidden. They could have even been sealed by the Sarafan Brotherhood under the vast seas, as the lake shown outside their Stronghold. Using it to keep any vampires from swimming into the Abyss to get it, since they'd end up burned and die, unlike Raziel who could survive the Abyss.

Most people who are drawn to the Legacy of Kain series have been a part of it, directly, in previous timelines, that have been altered. Most kept their affinity to it, just may not realise how real this all is.

What's your personal affinity with the characters or factions of Nosgoth? Or what was your personality or "inner self", and how does it appear in the Legacy of Kain series? Who were you, in the previous timelines?
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:30 AM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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When Kain saw that Raziel, the former champion of the Sarafan, developed wings, he recognised him as a chosen of the Oracle. Since the Ancients were also gifted with wings, as a sign of their submission to the Wheel of Fate. So he allowed Raziel to see what he was truly serving, the monster it was being guided by.

That is why Oracle always calls Raziel "a faithful servant", because he developed the wings that were the trademark of the Ancients themselves, the first beasts chosen by the Oracle. This is why Raziel was considered a traitor, since evolving wings proved he was more faithful not to humans of Nosgoth, but to the Ancients of the Oracle.

After Raziel sees the monster in the Abyss, he starts to regret his former life as a Sarafan Priest. The Sarafan order also had an eagle with great wings, as a sign of them being human servants of the Oracle, through Moebius. So wings were a clear sign of being chosen by the Oracle, as were the Sarafan who exterminated vampires, as were the Ancients who killed themselves because their immortality meant separation from their "God".

Since Raziel's wings are broken, his former glory as secret champion of the Oracle, while serving as the head Sarafan Priest, is finally changing. After he sees the hidden beast that controlled both the winged ancients and the winged sarafan order, by their eagle seals, he finally begins to change his life.

Thus he is aided by Kain to both see his evil "benefactor", just as he forced Moebius to confront it after Kain kills him in the Vampire Citadel. Kain was right, all along, about Raziel being a "traitor" to Nosgoth, his wings were proof of this. That's why he ripped them up, before throwing him in the Depths, to his master.

Raziel apparently was still clinging to his former life as a sarafan champion, servant of the Oracle, and not to Kain, who was the Scion of Balance, and true benefactor of Nosgoth. Kain helps Raziel witness his own path and history, forcing him to betray his own past principles, which had only mislead him.

Kain's act of generosity went even further, by saving Raziel from becoming a decadent beast, like his former sarafan brethren. Rahab, Dumah, Melchiah, Zephon and Turel. Who were truly, monstrous. Next to them, Raziel was not only strong enough to slay them, but also more closer to a vampire in appearance. Raziel remained the least demonic of them all, thanks to Kain's guidance through the Abyss, sparing him the centuries of corruption that had plagued Nosgoth.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:18 AM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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The Secrets of the Snake, are also at the crux of understanding these mysteries. Just as Moebius's staff that paralysed vampires, by striking at their hearts, weakening them, held a snake coiled around the staff itself, so do the Sarafan hold a bound snake in a circle within the Sarafan Stronghold.

The Snake is the pure symbol of the Vampire, and the blood curse. That's why the Blood Reaver has a snake skull on it's hilt, that's why all vampires look like they are possessed by a Snake, with protruding fangs, and a cold, snake like appearance and even the snake hiss, and deadly swift attacks.

The snake coiled around Moebius's staff, suggests a vampire trapped upon a staff holding an orb, causing the vampires to be paralysed. The snake biting it's own tail reveals the true purpose of the Sarafan Order. Vampires drinking their own blood, means their own demise. By locking the "Snake's fangs" unto it's own tail, the Sarafan were preventing the Vampires from biting more humans and inflicting the vampire curse unto others from Nosgoth. They saw vampirism as a venom of the Snake, which spread like a plague through their blood, as they were embraced or "sired".

The incarnations of the "Snake" in Legacy of Kain series, suggests they are the beast totem of the Vampires themselves. This is why every appearance of the Snake, either coiled upon itself in a deathly bite, when Raziel kills his former Sarafan human self, forcing him to later become a vampire, being sired by Kain. The snake sign also symbolises the passing of the curse, by the Snake, who is future Raziel who evolved from a vampire, unto his own self. The Sarafan Raziel is the "Tail", of the Snake, or the "past self", just as the tail is behind the mouth and fangs of the snake, which symbolise the future. As the future Raziel, with his snake like fangs, kills his former self, who symbolises the past and tail of the Snake totem, he allows for his past self to become a vampire. Thus indirectly "biting him", just as the snake bites itself on the floor beneath them. As they clash in the Sarafan Stronghold, at the end of Soul Reaver 2.

Just as the Eagle, or Wings are a Sacred Beast that suggest the Chosen servants of the Oracle, such as the Sarafan Order or the Ancients, the Snake is the Sacred Beast that represents the Vampires themselves, and their blood curse, that spreads like a venom, siring other vampires upon Nosgoth.

Just as a Snake devours the eggs and children of birds, such as Eagles and other winged creatures, the vampire "snake" of Nosgoth devoured the once mortal Ancients, by their curse and later suicide, and by turning the human servants of the Oracle, such as the Sarafan templars into "Snakes" themselves. Devouring their former human self, Raziel and his brothers became vampires, or "snakes". In perfect metaphore to their symbolism, of "Snake" and "Winged Eagles".

The other Sacred Beast in the series is the Lion. Shown as symbol of William the Just, the righteous humans who preached holiness, yet were not immune to corruption themselves. The lion appears throught the game, mostly within the Sarafan Stronghold, in Defiance, as Kain explores the sanctuary to seek for Moebius, and ultimately find Raziel.

Raziel says about the Sarafan Order, how they "sought to Lionise themselves, by demonising their enemies", such as Janos or Vorador. The Lion may symbolise the lost innocence and valour of Nosgoth, and the very lost sanctity that William the Just had embodied.

Moebius the "Snake Handler" or vampire manipulator, who had manipulated even Kain and Raziel, in his human and wraith lives, had corrupted the "Lion" of Nosgoth, in the form of William the Just, by making him into the Nemesis. Which is the darkest form of the Lion, represented biblically as the "destroyer of the Chosen people", and a Beast of desolation and great misery, just as the Nemesis brings about upon Nosgoth's past timeline.

Kain himself, the "Snake" weilding the Snake skull Reaver, destroys the "Fallen Lion", and even feels pity for William the Just, by saying "poor William", once Raziel stabs the tomb behind him, as Raziel saves Kain for the first time, sparing his life chosing mercy. This is when Raziel first understands the reason for that great reshuffling of history itself, by his refusal to kill Kain, and stabs William's corpse and tomb, instead.

Just as the Oracle's winged servants embody vultures and crows, who feed on corpses, so does the Oracle feed on the souls of the dead from Nosgoth, just as the winged necrophags that are crows and vultures. The Oracle suggests evil flying predators, with wings, that descend from the skies to feed on the dead. Just as the Sarafan preyed on the unliving vampires, impaling them, the Oracle hunted snakes as well, by creating vampire crusades with Moebius, and by feeding on Nosgoth's corpses, by leaching the souls of the dead, after they were released from the undying vampiric hosts.

Moebius's physical appearance in general, especially in Soul Reaver 2, suggests an eagle, or a bald eagle. His hood is arched forward in the middle, like a beak, suggesting he is a hunter of "snakes", who are embodied by vampires of Nosgoth.

Just as a Lion is the king of the beasts, the Eagle/Crow is the king of the skies, feeding on the dead, including on the corpses of dead lions. This is presented when Moebius takes full advantage of William the Just's early death at the hands of Kain, the "snake" guided by the "eagle". The snake, Kain, does not benefit from this death, only saves Nosgoth temporarily, whilst Moebius, the flying predator feeds on William's corpse, fueling his crusade against "snakes" or vampires, to seemingly avenge the fallen Lion, William slain by Kain.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:22 AM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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Raziel is actually the same with Krishna, one of the many physical incarnations of Vishnu.




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As seen here, in both the human form of Raziel / Krishna, and the wraith form, with dark blue skin.

Quote:
Krishna (literally "dark, black, dark-blue") is a central figure of Hinduism and is traditionally attributed the authorship of the Bhagavad Gita. He is considered in some monotheistic traditions as an Avatar of Vishnu. Krishna is identified as a historical individual who participated in the events of the Mahabharata.

Krishna is often described as an infant or young boy playing a flute as in the Bhagavata Purana, or as a youthful prince giving direction and guidance as in the Bhagavad Gita. The stories of Krishna appear across a broad spectrum of Hindu philosophical and theological traditions. They portray him in various perspectives: a god-child, a prankster, a model lover, a divine hero and the Supreme Being. The principal scriptures discussing Krishna's story are the Mahabharata, the Harivamsa, the Bhagavata Purana and the Vishnu Purana.
The flute itself is heard in the Sarafan Stronghold, where Raziel was the Sarafan Champion, or "Prince of the Sarafan", leader of the other sarafan knights. In his former court, the same flute is being played throught the Sarafan theme, with military undertones, and tragic influences.




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Quote:
Though his skin colour may be depicted as black or dark in some representations, particularly in murtis, in other images such as modern pictorial representations, Krishna is usually shown with blue skin. He is often shown wearing a yellow silk dhoti and peacock feather crown. Common depictions show him as a little boy, or as a young man in a characteristic relaxed pose, playing the flute.[14][15] In this form, he usually stands with one leg bent in front of the other and raises a flute to his lips, known as Tribhangi Mudra, accompanied by cows, emphasizing his position as the divine herdsman, Govinda, or with the gopis (milkmaids).
Even without milkmaids, the golden armour and peacock feathers appear both on his Sarafan statue, his armor worn as he slays Janos, and the peacock-like spread of his vampire wings, in his form just before being plunged into the Abyss.

A fourth "Sacred Beast" can be seen outside the retreat of Janos Audron, that Raziel finds before it's collapse.





Though difficult to recognise with untrained sight, the winged statue of the ancient supporting the balcony of Janos, can also be seen as a great beast, strikingly similar to Janos's other form as, "The Beast".


(click image to enlarge)

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Suggesting the true, underlying nature and form of Janos, as the sculpture of this beast is visible just beneath the very balcony supporting him in his mountain retreat. The giant wings of the ancient can be identified as the horns of his Beast self, the shoulder armor doubles as the eyes of the Beast itself, as he appears with green eyes during his imprisonment, above the Mass, feeding it with his ancient blood. The long arms and the body of the winged ancient also double as the gaping jaw of the Beast, beneath Janos's retreat. The resemblence is unconincidental.
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Chandogya Upanishad (3.17.6) Composed around 900BC-700BC mentions Vasudeva Krishna:

as the son of Devaki and the disciple of Ghora Angirasa , the seer who preached his disciple the philosophy of ‘Chhandogya.’ Having been influenced by the philosophy of ‘Chhandogya’ Krishna in the Bhagavadgita while delivering the discourse to Arjuna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra discussed about sacrifice, which can be compared to purusha or the individual.
Just as Raziel the sarafan is disciple of the seer Moebius, so is Krishna the disciple of Ghora Angirasa.

Quote:
Megasthenes (350 – 290 BC) a Greek ethnographer and an ambassador of Seleucus I to the court of Chandragupta Maurya mentioned about Herakles in his famous work Indica. Many scholars have suggested that the deity identified as Herakles was Krishna. According to Arrian, Diodorus, and Strabo, Megasthenes described an Indian tribe called Sourasenoi, who especially worshipped Herakles in their land, and this land had two cities, Methora and Kleisobora, and a navigable river, the Jobares. As was common in the ancient period, the Greeks sometimes described foreign gods in terms of their own divinities, and there is a little doubt that the Sourasenoi refers to the Shurasenas, a branch of the Yadu dynasty to which Krishna belonged; Herakles to Krishna, or Hari-Krishna: Methora to Mathura, where Krishna was born; Kleisobora to Krishnapura, meaning "the city of Krishna"; and the Jobares to the Yamuna, the famous river in the Krishna story. Quintus Curtius also mentions that when Alexander the Great confronted Porus, Porus's soldiers were carrying an image of Herakles in their vanguard.

The name Kṛishṇa occurs in Buddhist writings in the form Kaṇha, phonetically equivalent to Kṛishṇa.
Ironically enough, Krishna or Herakles or Hercules, is translated into "Kanha" or Kain. Though Raziel acts out the life and deeds of "Hercules", his name is given to his future ally, Kain himself. Symbolising the dual nature of their secret alliance and common destiny as greater heroes of Nosgoth.

Krishna even rides Varuda, his griffin mount, that is the actual Sarafan Brotherhood itself, that hails Raziel as it's champion, since the Sarafan use an eagle as their banner, as shown in Defiance, when Moebius paralyses Kain and shuts a gate as he leaves him to battle shadows in a cave.




Last edited by Umah Bloodomen; 12-20-2011 at 05:18 PM. Reason: Changed larger [IMG] tags to [THUMB] tags.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:41 AM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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According to Puranic sources, Krishna's disappearance marks the end of Dvapara Yuga and the start of Kali Yuga, which is dated to February 17/18, 3102 BCE. Vaishnava teachers such as Ramanujacharya and Gaudiya Vaishnavas held the view that the body of Krishna is completely spiritual and never decays as this appears to be the perspective of the Bhagavata Purana. Krishna never appears to grow old or age at all in the historical depictions of the Puranas despite passing of several decades, but there are grounds for a debate whether this indicates that he has no material body, since battles and other descriptions of the Mahabhārata epic show clear indications that he seems to be subject to the limitations of nature. While battles apparently seem to indicate limitations, Mahabharatha also shows in many places where Krishna is not subject to any limitations as through episodes Duryodhana trying to arrest Krishna where his body burst into fire showing all creation within him. Krishna is also explicitly described as without deterioration elsewhere.
The obvious similarity, and possibly the last one, is how both Raziel and Krishna are believed to be without a physical form, as in able to become spectral, they do not age, appearing forever young, and are characterised by a glowing fire contained within their bodies, which is the Soul Reaver, Raziel's own soul in spectral form, summoned at will.







These human and vampire forms of Raziel are equal to murals of Herakles (other name for Kanha or Krishna) with both pale and dark or blue skin, after the fall. Black hair and yellow to hazel eyes.




Janos also bears the same golden eyes, like Herakles and Kain / Kanha / Krishna, suggesting they are of "heroic lineage".



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Old 12-20-2011, 11:43 AM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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Lion Meanings and Thoughts on Lion Symbolism

The symbolic meaning of lions, as one might imagine, primarily deals with strength.

The fact that it is a nocturnal creature means that the lion is a symbol of authority and command over subconscious thought (as night is an ancient symbol of the subconscious - or dream states).

It’s interesting that the lion is considered by many ancient cultures to be a solar animal symbol, however it is primarily a nocturnal creature, conducting its hunting activity mostly at night. Further, the lioness is considered a lunar animal.

This serves as a symbolic message of balance and sound judgment. In that the lion shares the world of both night and day, the lion bears a message of prudence to us. In other words, the lion asks us to not overdo in certain areas of our lives. Rather, keep an even mind and an overall balance in our life activities.

Other than a symbol for strength, other symbolic attributes of the lion include:

Courage
Power
Royalty
Dignity
Authority
Dominion
Justice
Wisdom
Ferocity

In Egypt, the lion represented the ferocious heat of the sun and was seen in the likeness of Sekhmet who is the Egyptian goddess known as the Eye of Ra. She is the power that protects the good and annihilates the wicked.

In ancient Greece, lions were identified with Dionysus, Phoebus, Cybele, and Artemis because myth indicates lions drew the chariots for these gods and goddesses. Here, the symbolic meaning of lions revolved around protections and they were viewed as guardians of the dead as well as guardians of palaces, doorways, shrines and thrones. They were also ultimate protectors of hearth and home.

In Hinduism, the lion is an avatar (embodiment or personification) of Vishnu.

In Buddhism the Buddha sits upon the lion as a throne of consistency, strength and wisdom.

In alchemy, the symbolic meaning of lions is associated with the highly idealistic and prized attributes of gold.

The symbolic meaning of lions in England is shonw in heraldic art where it is a common emblem of English sovereigns because of these lion-like traits:

leadership
strength
royalty
courage
honor

As a zodiac symbol - those with the sign of Leo likely possess some lion's personality traits such as:

Intuition
Self-confidence
Fiery
Territorial
Controlling
Passionate
Generosity
Loyalty

Those born under the sun sign Leo are fiercely independent, confident and in control.

They are creative and influential forces and have the internal power to make positive (or negative) changes in their lives and the lives of others around them.

They are very loyal people, and will defend friend and family honor to the death. My friend Göran Jönsson has perfectly captured the strength and ferocity the Leo represents in his zodiac pendant shown left.

Lions as dream symbols indicate we may feel as though we are being preyed upon, or we are in a position to defend ourselves. Dreaming of lions may also be a sign of our need to get in touch with our emotions, and tame them if necessary.

In esoteric studies, the lion makes its appearance in the Tarot where it is illustrated in the Strength card of the Major Arcana.

When we observe the lion in nature, we detect an easy strength and a natural dignity. The lion is born powerful, and power comes naturally to it. There is no false bravado as the lion has no need of it.

When the lion comes to us it is a sign for us to step into our natural birthright of power. Each of us is born powerful and divine. The lion reminds us of this.

Other messages the lion shares with us:

Hold your head high – even in times of conflict – conduct yourself with dignity
Stand tall, remember your birthright of power
Perhaps it’s time to show your authority (not in a dominating way) but lead others with a loving heart
It may be time to defend something that is dear to your heart – defend it fiercely if you must.
Have courage, have faith.

As with all signs and symbols, the symbolic meaning of lions should be special and personal to each of you. This only provides you with a brief summary of the various symbolic meanings available. Ultimately it is you who determines your own unique and symbolic relationship with the lion.
The Lion appears almost everywhere in the first chapter of Defiance, when Kain infiltrates the Sarafan Stronghold, first after he kills his first sarafan, and scales the wall, to find the lion to his right, then as he feeds upon the chained women on the walls, in practically every scene, and every wall or pillar or door. Including after he breaks through a door, and drags a sarafan from high up a wall into a pike, to impale him, whilst the lion head appears again on the walls.

Despite being a solar animal, it's lunar aspect is presented moments before when Kain bats himself before the Sarafan Stronghold, with the Rising Moon behind him. Just like the Lion is a nocturnal predator, Kain also begins his hunt at night. His "prey" is Moebius, the Eagle / Griffin.



(click image to enlarge)

The Lions encountered by Kain in chapter one of Defiance, within the Sarafan Stronghold, resemble those two lions above, mostly. Even seen later with the solar symbol of an eye with yellow rays shining from it, on a red background, on a banner from an outer court surrounded by walls and towers, also in the same chapter and location.



The most foreboding of all is the emblem from India (origin of the Krishna legend of Herakles / Kain), which even has the same odd writing found by Kain in several places throughout that location, on the walls. It even has the pegasus horse, on the left, which also appears above some doors, windows or banners in Defiance, on Kain's advance.

Quote:
Ancient Greek legend tells us that Pegasus often wandered, stopping to rest on Mt. Olympus. One day, when his hoofs touched the ground on Mount Helicon, four sacred springs of water formed and from these springs the Muses (goddesses of inspiration) were born.
These four rivers appear near the Abyss, before Raziel, possibly in Soul Reaver 1. They all flow down into the Lake of Dead, which harbours the Abyss itself.

The Pegasus has different meaning, relevant to Kain's quest in Defiance, to seek out Moebius.

Quote:
Pegasus is a symbol of knowledge, glory, and inspiration. Since ancient times, Pegasus has been a symbol of power and speed as well as imagination. The symbol of Pegasus was mostly used on cars and was advertised as “the spirit of flying horsepower”.
This silently depicts Kain's journey to find precious knowledge, by hunting down Moebius (like the Lion hunts at night, with the rising moon above) and explains both the Pegasus and Lion sigils encountered in Defiance, by Kain.

Thus, the Pegasus represents the Fifth Sacred Beast of Nosgoth.

Last edited by Umah Bloodomen; 12-20-2011 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Changed larger [IMG] tags to [THUMB] tags.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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A horrible monster with the head of a snake, appears in the gilded sigil on Sarafan Raziel's armour, upon his back.

And upon his chest, another gilded sigil apparently showing the Beast form of Janos, or maybe even the Hylden General who later becomes the Sarafan Lord in Blood Omen 2.

Two Sacred Beasts on human Raziel's armour, are not coincidences. They are the keys to the underlying history shown in the series.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:18 PM
Allegory Allegory is offline
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In the material realm, Raziel sees a normal snake, biting it's own tail, sigil of the Sarafan's hatred of the vampires.

In the spectral realm of the Underworld, Raziel sees a winged snake, just as he is a winged vampire, unique among all of Kain's brood.



This appears along with Raziel's revelation that he was the wraith imprisoned within the Soul Reaver, and it had been him all along, as it was his fate to be sealed within the blade.

Perhaps Raziel is the embodiment of the Winged Snake, a unique form of the Sacred Beast, while Kain is the Snake, in it's original wingless form. As Kain remains in the material realm, above the snake, and Raziel falls into the spectral, above the same snake sigil, only with wings.

In this instance, it symbolises Raziel's return to the Underworld, as Angel of Death, and servant of the Oracle. Since his wings suggest renewed service to the wheel of fate Dogma, which he was bound to uphold yet again. This time as a "Winged Snake", or Angel of Death. A vampire who serves the Oracle, in the spectral realm.

Both the normal Snake and the Winged Snake in that scene at the end of Soul Reaver 2, appear as the two sides of Kain's coin. With Raziel's soul that appeared both outside the Reaver before he was stabbed to death, and on his arm after he fell back to the spectral realm. The soul reaver on his arm appearing both in the material, within the circled Snake, and on the other side, within the Winged Snake, proves his Soul Reaver is truly "the edge of the coin", Kain was relying on.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:28 AM
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Inquisitor Lexy Inquisitor Lexy is offline
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Those are some sharp/interesting observations and thoughts...

It does seem like the creators and designers drew in the first place from a lot of wildly different sources. I did notice the ouroboros and the design on Sarafan Raz's armour when I was doing some sketches of the characters and using the textures as reference and wondering what these designs and shapes might mean, and how deeply you could look into it. I never thought about it this deeply, I just rather assumed the ouroboros was obvious and the beast symbolism just that, horrible monsters on an otherwise supposedly 'pure' warrior's armour...

You mentioned Buddhism in there so it just got me thinking about the idea of the Buddhist Wheel of Life and samsara, the cyclic reincarnation of unenlightened souls, and the idea of the Gnostic Demiurge. The EG is surely the Demiurge and his beloved "wheel of Fate" causing souls to live their distracted, blunted lives always returning in ignorance to him for reincarnation. In that sense while maybe he calls himself a 'god', he isn't really, he is secondary to a god or 'God', responsible for worldly functions and not necessarily a 'good' entity because he is the engine of worldly captivity... and if destroyed, it might well not mean that the end of the world will come just because he is gone. I had been thinking till now about the problem of what would happen if Kain or someone else managed to kill the Elder, and whether he was truly a necessary evil. Although I'm no nearer to feeling satisfied about that. XD
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:00 AM
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hey thanks for resurrecting this Lexy. At the time, Allegory posted so much all at once that it was like "whoa!" But there is some nice stuff here and it reads like one of the apocryphal books of the bible that got kicked out of the official bible for being too juicy or something.

things like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegory View Post
[I]When Janos was weakened by the Hylden General enough to lose his ancient blood, he reverted to his original form from before he entered Nosgoth, that of a Beast, native only to the demon dimension.
kind of spine tingling! And this next part solves the problem of vampire extinction by turning it into a good thing. So Kain being the only one left is actually a success story:

Quote:
That is why Raziel and Kain could save Nosgoth, because they were truly natives there, as humans who became vampires. Their true mission was to save Nosgoth from both the Ancients and the Hylden, as they were only parasites from the demon dimension.
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