BOSS FIGHTS - All Discussion - plus 4 Boss Fight Methods Hints & Tips *Spoilers*

[itsonyourhead]

"If you panic, you are going to die."

I think the boss fights were okay. They could have done with a lot more tweaking though. I would have liked to see some sort of strategy necessary to beat them though.

1. Combat - You need to stun them first before you can hurt them (weapons or CQC) Explosives will re-position them (not stun them), so that you can't just keep hitting them with explosives while they stand in one spot.
2. Stealth - If you can sneak up behind the boss you get to use a certain number of CQC to take them down. Also, sneaking up on a boss means you don't need to stun them before you can hurt them.
3. Hacking - You can hack certain consoles to have robots/turrets help you. If you sneak up/stun them you can hack their brains to shut off certain of their augments/abilities. Keep hacking their brains eventually you shut them off completely.
4. Social - You can talk them down into weakness throughout the battle-- (or if you are really really good, get them to stand aside). Basically a terrible cyberpunk version of Hannibal Lector.

[sahdev_92]

In my opinion, the boss fights weren't all that. However, I did think it was okay, but there was alot left to be desired.

Since we're dealing with augmented bosses, there should of been the option to have a killphrase for each boss, or maybe 2 out of the 3. But one thing I wanted was to actually get away from a boss, not be forced to fight one. Truth be told, that was something I didn't want, and having to deal with them later in the game would have a nice touch to the story. This is pretty much the same as Deus Ex.

I can see they were trying to make bosses similar the MGS, no doubt the inspiration came from there. They should of gave us more than one option. Instead we have to kill.

Eidos shouldn't outsource it to another company. Makes the whole thing worse. But the fact that it didn't flop as bad as we (Or I) could expect, it means they could learn from it, and stick the making everything in-house. Hopefully that's the case.

[itsonyourhead]

"If you panic, you are going to die."

I think the boss fights were okay. They could have done with a lot more tweaking though. I would have liked to see some sort of strategy necessary to beat them.

1. Combat - You need to stun them first before you can hurt them (weapons or CQC) Explosives will re-position them (not stun them), so that you can't just keep hitting them with explosives while they stand in one spot.
2. Stealth - If you can sneak up behind the boss you get to use a certain number of CQC to take them down. Also, sneaking up on a boss means you don't need to stun them before you can hurt them.
3. Hacking - You can hack certain consoles to have robots/turrets help you. If you sneak up/stun them you can hack their brains to shut off certain of their augments/abilities. Keep hacking their brains eventually you shut them off completely.
4. Social - You can talk them down into weakness throughout the battle-- (or if you are really really good, get them to stand aside). Basically a terrible cyberpunk version of Hannibal Lector -- (would require you to hack/find their psych profile or other information on them) CASIE aug would help you during the battle

In fact, they could split the CASIE aug up into several different upgrades. Pheromones -- psych evals (generated throughout conversation, not all at once) -- emotional levels -- mental stability

[MaxxQ1]

How to fix the Boss Battles...

Remove them as implemented.

[kud13]

don't outsource them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9YbSkOW7sU

we knew about Nixxes (and it turned out alright), but letting people twho know nothing about DX make somehting that has nothing to do with DX?

I really hope there's no boss in the missing link. If there is, it's automatically relegated to a Steam sale 75% off purchase.

[mad825]

As Yatzee suggested, give them a name and a face instead of making them faceless and Nameless as the common NPC.

[kud13]

Originally Posted by mad825

As Yatzee suggested, give them a name and a face instead of making them faceless and Nameless as the common NPC.

*insert the mandatory reference to the Icarus Effect here*

[batfax]

Don't lock us in a room and say "shoot the bad man" would be the best start. You don't have to leave the door unlocked (leaving it open to even more AI exploits than it already is) but allow a way out somehow. I also like the idea of talking during the fight itself.

The "hacking" method you describe is kinda ridiculous. It'd probably be better to include killphrases like in the first game you can acquire through especially difficult hacks. Maybe to spice it up so that you don't just walk up to 'em and yell "FLATLANDER WOMAN" to make 'em explode you'd get them in tinier chunks and have to decipher the word(s) yourself.

[Squadr0n]

Yea i agree with the dont outsource next time. I understand that this game took at the least 4 years to develop and to help get the game out on time they needed to share the work load. But other games have had similar development times and had stellar boss fights.

Metal gear is a great example. Bosses are developed in the story long before you meet them in combat. Each one is individualy introduced so by the time you face them you are already well aware of their style or personality.

Handle each fight differently with a new setting and a new way to combat each one.

in Deus Ex 3 they basically amount to you entering an arena with the doors closing behind you and its just a shoot out with no thought on what augs youve choosen as a player. Theres no way to out smart a boss by hiding and sneaking up to get a good hit on them....as soon as your in their range they just turn around and shoot directly at you. The first boss in peticular will throw grenades at your possition no matter where you are or how hidden you were.

Also theres no narrative from any of the bosses accept for a few taunts. you get no insight as to why they are trying to stop you accept for the fact that they were just hired hit men. The second boss is by far the worst in this regard. I dont think she said a word the entire time. They could have made her pretty sexy, just toying with you and sneaking up on you. She was basically the same as the first fight but she could go invisible and if you were in her path you get empd.

Maybe if they had some verity this could have been a different story....

How about one of the fights being a sniper dual or a hacking fight against an AI

[MaxxQ1]

Originally Posted by Squadr0n

Yea i agree with the dont outsource next time. I understand that this game took at the least 4 years to develop and to help get the game out on time they needed to share the work load. But other games have had similar development times and had stellar boss fights.

Metal gear is a great example. Bosses are developed in the story long before you meet them in combat. Each one is individualy introduced so by the time you face them you are already well aware of their style or personality.

Handle each fight differently with a new setting and a new way to combat each one.

in Deus Ex 3 they basically amount to you entering an arena with the doors closing behind you and its just a shoot out with no thought on what augs youve choosen as a player. Theres no way to out smart a boss by hiding and sneaking up to get a good hit on them....as soon as your in their range they just turn around and shoot directly at you. The first boss in peticular will throw grenades at your possition no matter where you are or how hidden you were.

Also theres no narrative from any of the bosses accept for a few taunts. you get no insight as to why they are trying to stop you accept for the fact that they were just hired hit men. The second boss is by far the worst in this regard. I dont think she said a word the entire time. They could have made her pretty sexy, just toying with you and sneaking up on you. She was basically the same as the first fight but she could go invisible and if you were in her path you get empd.

Maybe if they had some verity this could have been a different story....

How about one of the fights being a sniper dual or a hacking fight against an AI

She didn't. According to the official strat guide (and maybe Icarus Effect - I haven't read it) she's mute. OTOH, if no one had bought/read either, no one would know that. So yeah, I agree the bosses sucked as far as character development goes.

The only bad guy from DX that approaches HR's level of character development was Howard Strong at the missile silo, and at least *he* had the excuse that his part was cut from the game (except as being a target for a 'nade).

[Squadr0n]

HAHA she was mute? so in other words they didn't want to bother writing any more story for the bosses. This is so bad for a game that relies so much on its narrative to keep the player engaged. There was not one mention of her before or after the fight accept in cut scenes when you see her in passing. had no idea she was a mute lol

[MaxxQ1]

Originally Posted by Squadr0n

HAHA she was mute? so in other words they didn't want to bother writing any more story for the bosses. This is so bad for a game that relies so much on its narrative to keep the player engaged. There was not one mention of her before or after the fight accept in cut scenes when you see her in passing. had no idea she was a mute lol

Yeah...like I said, unless you read the strat guide, you wouldn't even have known that. Hell, a simple email in a computer or a mention in a pocket secretary would have taken care of that. There could even have been a comp in Singapore that contained a rundown of all the Tyrants (the bosses) as they are written in the guide. Each one gets a couple paragraphs telling you where they were born, what their parents did, how they ended up where they are now, and so on.

*NONE* of that info is in the game, and it's a poorer game for it. In DX, we actually learn all about Gunther and Anna through emails (and a few convos), and they are extremely well-developed characters, compared to the big baddies in *this* game.

[rokstrombo]

Besides the lack of character development, I think a major problem with the boss fights was that there wasn't necessarily any precedent for this type of gameplay in the game. Melee players may never have fired a weapon, let alone used one in combat. Stealthy players may not have encountered cloaked enemies before. No player would have a lot of experience handling with Typhoon/EMP attacks. I would expect most players would have become accustomed being hidden most of the time. I appreciate that the battles were designed with the expectation that the player needs to develop new strategies in order to survive, but these strategies were used 3 times in the entire game. The final boss sequence involved some more familiar strategies, but it followed a confusing zombie apocolypse sequence which itself threw out many of the skills and tactics used by the player to progress through the game until that point.

If stealthy and non-lethal gameplay were more difficult in Human Revolution, it would be more reasonable to assume that players would develop more balanced skills and traits as they generally did in Deus Ex. But with one-button takedowns, radar system and unbalanced experience point rewards, the boss fights may come as an unpleasant surprise to many players.

[Cronstintein]

Very disappointing not to have alternate methods of killing these guys. No robot/turret hack options, no stealthy avoidance options, no talking options...
Especially when you have DX1 as source material, which had arguably one of the best ever work-arounds to the bosses.

[MaxxQ1]

Originally Posted by Cronstintein

Very disappointing not to have alternate methods of killing these guys. No robot/turret hack options, no stealthy avoidance options, no talking options...
Especially when you have DX1 as source material, which had arguably one of the best ever work-arounds to the bosses.

Well, not quite true. You *can* carry a turret into the fight with Namir...

[itsonyourhead]

Originally Posted by MaxxQ1

*NONE* of that info is in the game, and it's a poorer game for it. In DX, we actually learn all about Gunther and Anna through emails (and a few convos), and they are extremely well-developed characters, compared to the big baddies in *this* game.

Not entirely true. Eliza provides a little background on Federova during the fight (if you last that long).

[MaxxQ1]

Originally Posted by itsonyourhead

Not entirely true. Eliza provides a little background on Federova during the fight (if you last that long).

If you say so... A couple Typhoons and the heavy MG took care of her quick enough that I didn't hear much of that.

[kud13]

Originally Posted by MaxxQ1

If you say so... A couple Typhoons and the heavy MG took care of her quick enough that I didn't hear much of that.

yeah, I was actually enjoying the music (one of the few spots in the game where it was noticeable, while waiting for fedorova to charge my warmed up minigun/heavy rifle.

[OhSorryOldHorse]

Federova, on the hardest difficulty, ed me over supremely and I had to turn it down as a result (and thus killing the chance to get the hardest difficulty achievement). However, after going through again, I learned that Typhoon is your friend XD

[Romeo]

Originally Posted by OhSorryOldHorse

Federova, on the hardest difficulty, ed me over supremely and I had to turn it down as a result (and thus killing the chance to get the hardest difficulty achievement). However, after going through again, I learned that Typhoon is your friend XD

Let the environment do the work for you with her!

[OhSorryOldHorse]

Originally Posted by Romeo

Let the environment do the work for you with her!

That much I figured out on my current third one I'm getting the aug that protects you from electrical damage and just shock the hell out of her

[Arctica]

I think the bosses are okay, even on hardest difficulty.

Barret was kinda hard, but you can stun him with EMP-Granades and then throw the explosive barrels at him. Not that hard.

Federova is a very easy fight if you have the EMP-Shield (the augmentation from the dermal-armor). Just shoot at the generators and watch Yelena beeing stunned for a long time. Very easy fight.

Nadir is the easiest boss fight in the game, if you have the collector's edition. After 5-6 Shots from the grenade launcher, the fight is over. You can also beat him by running behind a wall, he instantly dies because of a bug or something like that.

For Zhao: Pull out your Lasergun, shoot at Zhao and end the final bossfight in under 10 seconds. Lasergun goes THROUGH the glasswindow protecting Zhao.

[A bomb]

WHEN FIGHTING NAMIR! (4 SECOND BOSS FIGHT TUT)
SHOOT NAMIR WITH THE LINEBACKER 4 TIMES
VOILA HE'S DEAD!


It only took 4 seconds!
Are you satisfied now?

[auric]

Limited to those who can get it only.

[Agent Denton]

Not saying I am Boss or anything but I never once had an issue with the boss fights. Granted, I just used the TYPHOON for the last two fights, as that mod makes a lot of your problems go away, with extreme prejudice I might add. For Barret, I just unloaded several clips from the combat rifle into this skull, and presto, problem solved.