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  #1  
Old 08-27-2011, 11:20 AM
ReliantLion ReliantLion is offline
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Exclamation Foxiest of the Hounds & Pacifist - Q&As - *Spoilers Inside*

So I just beat HR again on Deus Ex and got Foxiest of the Hounds as well. Here are my findings:

Certain alarms are unavoidable and do not count. Without giving away story details, I'll say this: If immediately after a cut-scene, the alarm is sounded, then you are O.K. However, each time this happened, I slipped away unnoticed.

There is a part where the player may be forced to destroy 2 large mechs. Since I was playing without any augs, I had to destroy them. I used an EMP grenade on each of them. It seems it is O.K. to do this.

On occasion, a camera, sentry gun, or guard would become suspicious of me or become alarmed to my presence. As long as they do not confirm your location, it is O.K. I'm not sure if the manditory alarm scenarios this matters, but like I said, I slipped past everyone unnoticed.

I also got the Pacifist achievement on this run. I did so much as harm a fly except bosses and the 2 mechs.

NOTE: Again, I used no Augs, and there appears to be no achievement for this, no Humanity Front, or Purity First I'm afraid. I did have to gain 2 keypad numbers from the Internet for one level.
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReliantLion View Post
So I just beat HR again on Deus Ex and got Foxiest of the Hounds as well. Here are my findings:

Certain alarms are unavoidable and do not count. Without giving away story details, I'll say this: If immediately after a cut-scene, the alarm is sounded, then you are O.K. However, each time this happened, I slipped away unnoticed.

There is a part where the player may be forced to destroy 2 large mechs. Since I was playing without any augs, I had to destroy them. I used an EMP grenade on each of them. It seems it is O.K. to do this.

On occasion, a camera, sentry gun, or guard would become suspicious of me or become alarmed to my presence. As long as they do not confirm your location, it is O.K. I'm not sure if the manditory alarm scenarios this matters, but like I said, I slipped past everyone unnoticed.

I also got the Pacifist achievement on this run. I did so much as harm a fly except bosses and the 2 mechs.

NOTE: Again, I used no Augs, and there appears to be no achievement for this, no Humanity Front, or Purity First I'm afraid. I did have to gain 2 keypad numbers from the Internet for one level.
They really should have had a 'Purist' achievement for a no-aug playthrough.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2011, 10:40 PM
cachx cachx is offline
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Default A little clarification for "Foxiest" achievement

Yeah, what the title says.

It is simply not clear to me what exactly does "setting off any alarms" imply. Actual alarms? enemies going into alarmed state? what about robots? what about cameras?

After reading around other forums and such, it seems that the official guide has a definition:

"The Foxiest of the Hounds Trophy/Achievement is awarded for getting the Smooth Operator experience bonus for every objective in the game, where it is possible to get it. The Smooth Operator bonus is granted for completing an objective without an alarm being activated during it. This differs significantly from the Ghost bonus, as even if you get spotted or an enemy is in the Alarmed state, you won't be in danger of losing the bonus, unless an alarm is actually activated. As long as you can stop the enemy from doing so, you can still keep the bonus intact. Being spotted by a camera or walking through a laser field will also activate an alarm, costing you the bonus. The alarm being scripted or triggered automatically by the game will not affect your Smooth Operator bonus. The table below shows all the objectives where you will have to avoid seeing off an alarm."

So it seems that you only need to get "Smooth Operator" during certain missions. We only need to know wich ones they are? Someone with the guide willing to type them?

I'm going for a pacifist/Foxiest run, but I am totally stuck on the part where

But it seems that it's impossible to save her without getting enemies into hostile state.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:35 PM
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The guide actually deceived me on this. I fretted over this one objective where it said I could get Smooth Operator and Ghost, but I got neither, for some inexplicable reason. Went through the game, and got Foxiest upon completion anyway. Otherwise, it seemed accurate, with one caveat for a Detroit mission, as noted.

Here's a list of objectives that have Smooth Operator bonuses available, in chronological order. I got the bonus for all of these except where noted and got the achievement.

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  #5  
Old 08-28-2011, 12:38 AM
cachx cachx is offline
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Thank you! just what I needed

Does the guide says by any chance if the Pacifist achievement includes "second hand kills"? After much pain, I managed to save Malik using only stuns and non-lethal takedowns, but when I destroyed the mech with an EMP grenade, the explosion took out like 3 guards and killed them (skulls over their heads). Sooo I don't know if I should keep playing or not.
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cachx View Post
Thank you! just what I needed

Does the guide says by any chance if the Pacifist achievement includes "second hand kills"? After much pain, I managed to save
using only stuns and non-lethal takedowns, but when I destroyed the mech with an EMP grenade, the explosion took out like 3 guards and killed them (skulls over their heads). Sooo I don't know if I should keep playing or not.
I don't know about explosions from bots, but hacked bots & turrets killing guards counts as a kill, as does enemies falling to their deaths.

As far as going non-lethal while still saving that individual goes, here's what I did:

Immediately rush up the center, taking out the right heavy, and the regular goon right next to him. Take out the left heavy next. Mech should now be dropping in. If you rushed fast enough, only the heavy on the right should be near the mech, drag him away before EMPing it and you should not get any troops killed. Then you can clear out the rest of the guys at your leisure since they aren't doing a ton of damage.
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2011, 01:29 AM
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I know getting spotted by camera's will set of an alarm but what about turrets?
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:23 PM
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I got Pacifist but didn't get Foxiest, not sure why.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:53 PM
MonkeyLungs MonkeyLungs is offline
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I have no conrete info on the crazies in last level but I wasn't taking any chances. There was some sections were I was tranq darting them and hiding and doint that over and over again one enemy at a time until solid groups were dead. I was really tired of playing unseen by the time I finished the game. I really wanted to use some gas grenades and a PEPS on those MF'ers ...

Now that I have the pacifist and foxiest acheivement I don't have to worry about alarms or being seen .. and its more fun. I do realize I don't have to be such a slave to the achievements but for games I really enjoy I try to get them all. (Lame I know) ... if I don't really really dig a game but like it enough to finish it I don't worry about the achievements.
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTranslation View Post
I got Pacifist but didn't get Foxiest, not sure why.
Did you get the Smooth Operator bonus for that section?
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  #11  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:20 PM
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I need help regarding two things.



Thanks in advance!
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:54 PM
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Smooth Operator (and Foxiest) has nothing to do with the "alarmed" state of enemies soldiers, nor bots or turrets.

It refers to the physical alarm triggered if one of these things happen:
1) A soldier spots you, and goes hostile, then triggers the physical alarm panel on the wall. Note that civilians can do this too if you give them a reason to make them panic.

2) A camera spots you and goes hostile. This automatically triggers the alarm.

3) You fail and run out of hack attempts on a hackable object in a area where an alarm can be triggered (i.e. missions with the green panel on the wall).

Being spotted by a turret is ok it seems. Upon seeing you, turrets go hostile very quickly as soon as they get a glimpse of you, unlike soldiers who get alarmed and try to get a visual confirmation. This seems ok for Smooth Operator and Ghost as long as the turret loses track of you even if it goes hostile, at least as long as it does not shoot. If the turrets shoots in your direction it seems to telepathically alert all guards in the area (this will likely make you lose ghost, but not smooth operator since turrets don't trigger the physical alarm it seems, but the soldiers might, just reload).

I have not checked with bots. When bots are involved I just clear the room of enemy soldiers and them emp nade them for the 250 xp bonus. This doesn't stop you from getting ghost or smooth operator as long as no one is around (and maybe even if they are but on the safe side just clear the room). This works for turrets too, but the xp bonus is only 45.

Story alarms don't count.

For ghost, it works more or less the same. The alarmed/suspicious status does not make you lose the bonus unless the soldier/turret goes hostile. It seems however that bodies might be an exception to this (didn't test it excessively). If a soldier goes into the "alarmed" status due to spotting a dead/unconscious body, I think it counts as being detected (and it kind of makes sense that it's a pretty big clue that someone is around if your buddies are dropping dead around you).

So don't worry so much about the alarmed status (except when bodies are involved). In fact, jumping around, running, shooting with a silenced weapon, throwing boxes around, just making noise in general, is a great way to get the enemy into the "alarmed" status. This tends to make them easy pickings since they will leave their buddies and their patrol to investigate. This is no way will stop you from getting ghost or smooth operator.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2011, 10:03 PM
alanschu alanschu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetaffer View Post
I need help regarding two things.



Thanks in advance!
Neither of those things are examples of someone dying by Jensen's hand.
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2011, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
Neither of those things are examples of someone dying by Jensen's hand.
I guess it's not literally by your hand, but you did cause them, and they are preventable.
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2011, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kivan View Post
I know getting spotted by camera's will set of an alarm but what about turrets?
I'm almost positive that getting spotted by a turret will invalidate the achievement.
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:22 PM
alanschu alanschu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetaffer View Post
I guess it's not literally by your hand, but you did cause them, and they are preventable.
You don't cause anything to happen, and the fact that something is preventable doesn't make you the killer. Those deaths are a direct result of someone else's actions.
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetaffer View Post
I guess it's not literally by your hand, but you did cause them, and they are preventable.
Pinkie Pie is the best pony!

But I have no idea if they count. Collateral damage does count against you in other cases, like bots exploding and killing someone, or someone falling off a building. I suppose if that bomb were to go off, they might count. But if they die simply because you skipped them? Not sure.
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  #18  
Old 08-28-2011, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NKD View Post
Pinkie Pie is the best pony!

But I have no idea if they count. Collateral damage does count against you in other cases, like bots exploding and killing someone, or someone falling off a building. I suppose if that bomb were to go off, they might count. But if they die simply because you skipped them? Not sure.
How about that lady that Zeke is holding hostage? What if you didn't persuade him and he shot her?

And near the end where:



Thanks in advance!
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  #19  
Old 08-28-2011, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetaffer View Post
How about that lady that Zeke is holding hostage? What if you didn't persuade him and he shot her?

And near the end where:



Thanks in advance!
As far as Zeke and the hostage goes, that's a good question. I wish there was something to tell you that you had gotten a "kill" counted against you, so we could know for sure.

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  #20  
Old 08-28-2011, 11:17 PM
alpher alpher is offline
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i have not been spotted at all in any stage but


Does that mean im screwed for the foxiest achieve?
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  #21  
Old 08-28-2011, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by alpher View Post
i have not been spotted at all in any stage but


Does that mean im screwed for the foxiest achieve?
That's actually a really good question. You aren't setting off any alarms, but you're also not getting a Smooth Operator. The guide says it's about Smooth Operator bonuses, not alarms, but its hard to say. I suppose we won't know until someone gets the achievement who completed the quest that way.
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  #22  
Old 08-29-2011, 02:25 AM
zythyl zythyl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReliantLion View Post
So I just beat HR again on Deus Ex and got Foxiest of the Hounds as well. Here are my findings:

Certain alarms are unavoidable and do not count. Without giving away story details, I'll say this: If immediately after a cut-scene, the alarm is sounded, then you are O.K. However, each time this happened, I slipped away unnoticed.

There is a part where the player may be forced to destroy 2 large mechs. Since I was playing without any augs, I had to destroy them. I used an EMP grenade on each of them. It seems it is O.K. to do this.

On occasion, a camera, sentry gun, or guard would become suspicious of me or become alarmed to my presence. As long as they do not confirm your location, it is O.K. I'm not sure if the manditory alarm scenarios this matters, but like I said, I slipped past everyone unnoticed.

I also got the Pacifist achievement on this run. I did so much as harm a fly except bosses and the 2 mechs.

NOTE: Again, I used no Augs, and there appears to be no achievement for this, no Humanity Front, or Purity First I'm afraid. I did have to gain 2 keypad numbers from the Internet for one level.
So just to get this 100% sure... as long as the ALARM isn't tripped or activated we're fine? Enemies can go hostile, alerted, alarmed, or suspicious (as can turrets and cameras) but NO alarms? With the noise?
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  #23  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:21 AM
MonkeyLungs MonkeyLungs is offline
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I didn't let any enemy go hostile. It might have been overkill and I was kind of sick of stealthing by the end but it worked. In my new playthrough I'm starting some fights and actually using my guns! It's a nice change.
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:49 AM
ranmafan ranmafan is offline
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Ok - I'm in a conundrum here. I was in Youzhao District, the Heng Sha apartments, knocking guards out left and right. To hide their bodies, I dragged them into ventillation ducts. Now, I swear both guards were 'Zzz' when I left them, but when I came back much later for another mission, I realized that their icons had changed to skulls.

Is this a bug, or if it isn't, will I be counted responsible for their deaths?

My last save in this area was when I just started the district. This would sadden me greatly...
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  #25  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:00 AM
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Finally got them both! Even though my game glitched when I did a non lethal takedown on 2 guards which killed them for some reason, but I guess it didn't count. Got every achievement
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