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  #26  
Old 08-24-2011, 07:27 AM
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I'm sorry but what "padding the game" means ?
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2011, 10:50 AM
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Good question Anvie.

To me, padding means non-essential gameplay. Stuff you can do that doesn't push you further from start point A to end sequence B but is still enjoyable.

It would seem others view padding as anything that slows down completetion time.
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2011, 02:02 PM
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^ Backtracking and padding are two different things... You said you'd want TR to have backtracking, which is annoying... If by padding you mean FUN (and rewarding ) mini-quests, then I think we're all for that
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2011, 02:40 PM
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^^^ I'm w/ Google and D1n0 on this one.
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2011, 04:23 PM
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I stand by my earlier description. Padding is not stuff you can do if you want to do, it's stuff deliberately put in to increase the playing time that you HAVE to do. On a main quest, for example: 'Go here, do this, come back. Great! Now go back there, do this, return...' Why not give you the entire list at the start? Because each journey back and forth adds a few minutes to the playing time. If there's absolutely no other reason for it, that's padding.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
I stand by my earlier description. Padding is not stuff you can do if you want to do, it's stuff deliberately put in to increase the playing time that you HAVE to do. On a main quest, for example: 'Go here, do this, come back. Great! Now go back there, do this, return...' Why not give you the entire list at the start? Because each journey back and forth adds a few minutes to the playing time. If there's absolutely no other reason for it, that's padding.
I understand what you're saying but if it is done badly then it's annoying but if it is done well then it isn't.

If Lara starts the new game on the ship and the training mission gets her to the shore then brilliant. If she has to go back into the ship to get a hammer then back again to get a jug then back again to get a Cup-a-Soup then, I agree, that's damned annoying because she should have taken those things right from the word go.

However, if she gets off the ship then discovers she needs a hammer but can't go back into the ship the way she came out because of a walkway collapse, has to explore, dive under the bow to find a hole and work her way up through the engine room to get back to where she started then I'm fine with that. She might have to undo some part of the engine to squeeze through which starts a fire so she grabs the hammer and escapes only to find she needs a jug and has to go back in. She can't get past the collapsed walkway and the fire is still raging so she has to take a burning piece of wood and torch partt of the deck to get back to where she started.

See what I mean? Exactly the same thing is happening in gameplay terms, she is backtracking, but in the 2nd way it requires thought, shows new areas, calls for judgement and skill that the other way doesn't. Interesting padding as opposed to boring padding. Both ways are padding because in reality all 3 items would be able to be picked up immediately rather than only selectable at certain points in the game.

What would be even more exciting is if you could see the items glinting right from the start but for them to be just beyond your reach. You could then decide whether you wanted to explore and get them first or explore to find the places you can use them before looking for the way to obtain them. In this manner the gameplay would still have a path but you could decide which way you wanted to go.
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2011, 05:11 PM
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Gogglebox,

I'd say if the stuff you need is not selectable the first time through, it's padding. In a survival game it would be utterly inexcusable not to let you pick up anything that might look useful. (Honestly, I'd add a ton of pick ups that are NOT useful and a weight limit, just to drive the players crazy, but I'm evil like that! ).

If you get the hammer & stuff, but in doing so shift something that causes the walkway collapse and then have to go all through that to get out - that's interesting and definitely not padding, because it does add new areas and new things.

I think probably the shortest description of padding would be 'pointless repetition'.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:38 PM
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Its hard to say. I want the game to be longer, as do a lot of the fans, but then you have to think about the story. The team has made it clear that they want to focus on a good story line, which I also agree with. Just making the game longer for "longers sake" might interfere with the plot.
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2011, 08:12 PM
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My guess is:
12+ hours completing the storyline
8+ hours completing the storylinje on hardest setting
10+ hours finding all secrets n stuff
infinite amount of hours if the multiplayer rumours would be true
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  #35  
Old 08-26-2011, 03:29 PM
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I think backtracking can be a good aid to incresing game length. Say I found three keys and have to go miles back to reach the lock or I find an axe to chop down a tree somewhere I have been. I wouldn't want short pointless quests that are quite long low excitement sections.

The game does have to be longer than CD's recent games. I think Legend was really clever as despite it's short play through time I has real good replayability that gets overall play time up. I think it needs a game with maybe 1/2 as much play time again as the other CD games and as much replayability as Legend.
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  #36  
Old 08-26-2011, 05:03 PM
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'short quests that are long'? that's a new one
Mini-quests are awesome, as long as they're fun and rewarding, that's what prolongs the game... Backtracking doesn't. I remember Anniversary was quite good at fighting backtracking, I suppose (I'm not really sure xD)... You would be in a room with a lock, and then walking a long road, fighting enemies and obstacles till you enter a room with a key. Now, I sure don't intend to go back the same long, dangerous way... It's ok from time to time, but it gets annoying and is sure no way to prolong the game. The room with a key had a shortcut to the room with a lock, now that's good thinking Or, something that's even better, IMO. You don't have to go back the same path, but instead there's a new, equally or even longer path to the room with the lock with new enemies, obstacles and even few locations to explore while you're at it... THAT's how you make a game longer
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  #37  
Old 08-27-2011, 01:50 AM
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^^^ I don't remember any backtracking in "Anni" whatsoever, except in the "Natla's Mines". Wow, that's the first time I realized there wasn't any. Thanx for bringing that up, D1n0.
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  #38  
Old 08-28-2011, 02:24 AM
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The backtracking is an essential point in the Old TR in many levels you were having to find objects to unlock the door in the middle of the level(St Francis Folly, Midas Palace, Natla's mine, Temple Ruins ....) In the CD's games it's more like Crash Bandicoot a level beetween the point A and B
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  #39  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:46 AM
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I would like the game to be longer than TRU, that's all I care about. Also replayability would be nice.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara_Fan_84 View Post
I would like the game to be longer than TRU, that's all I care about. Also replayability would be nice.
You honestly thought TRU was a long enough playthrough? I thought it was really short...
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  #41  
Old 09-14-2011, 11:21 PM
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Assassin's Creed Brotherhood and Uncharted 2...
Long Single player as hell and addictive multiplayer!

Tomb Raider Legend, Anniversary and Underworld...
"Hey, dude, I just bought the new. Tomb R... oh, credits...."
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  #42  
Old 09-15-2011, 12:12 AM
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I just finished reading a 1up review of Deus Ex Human Revolution, almost all the reviewers posted minimum completion time of 30+ hours. One reviewer that looked for every nook and cranny posted an as yet not completed time of 40 hours. <---THAT would be my target pick for any future Tomb Raider game.

P.S. If they could do it, why not Crystal? Same publisher same engine, why not?
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  #43  
Old 09-15-2011, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoggleboxUK View Post
I bought Legend, stuck it in the console and started playing. 4 hours 12 minutes later it was all over. Very disappointing!

I think the developers have missed the point with the later games. Tomb Raider is, or should be, primarily about exploration.

One of the things I loved about TR and TR2 was the openness of the game. The later games, Legend in particular, had such a clear and obvious path from start to finish that it felt more like Crash Bandicoot than Tomb Raider in places.

I WANT to get lost, I want to have to retrace my steps and use the look button to find where to go next, I want to feel like I'm discovering something nobody has discovered for years.

If it takes me 50 hours to complete then I don't mind 25 of them being lost in the levels, Tomb Raider is meant to be an adventure game and exploration is all part of the adventure.
Yeah, I played TR1 in 1996 for two friggin months (itīs so long ago so I canīt remember gaming hours)!! The sequel lasted with me for at least a month. Then when I played TRLegend in time trials I noticed that actually you CAN complete the Legend in just a few hours. Thatīs too short, but the gaming industry is heading for that direction that, a person buys a game plays it through and most likely quickly trades it or sells it in favor of a new game (Not including online-multiplayer type games) which is horrible.

I remember putting 270h in Final Fantasy 7. And liking to find things on my own, searching and adventuring. Today with other hobbies and two small kids I prefer 10+ hour games because I simply donīt have the time to play that much.
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  #44  
Old 09-15-2011, 01:18 PM
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okay a game, especially if it focus on SP, should at least be 25hr or more, Batman Arkham City is said to be 25 hr, and 50 hr if you want to finish everything, Castlevania Lords Of Shadow took me 25 hrs (give or take) to finish the SP, and I spend another 25 hrs to get everything and nail the platinum, it was an epic journey, I hope the TR gives me a SP story that as soon as I finish it, I feel the urge to replay it again even though I know how everything is going to turn out, I want the SP to take me some time to finish, and at last I really to be imprisoned within the game atmosphere
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  #45  
Old 09-16-2011, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRufina View Post
You honestly thought TRU was a long enough playthrough? I thought it was really short...


I didn't say that. I thought TRU was short that is why I said I want the new TR to be longer than TRU.
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Old 09-16-2011, 08:35 AM
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I would defintely like to see a longer game...I can usually replay Legend, Anni, or Underworld in less than 6 hours (of course took longer th first time through). I enjoy my TR time I would suppose with the more open world in the new TR that things like backtracking won't be nearly the issue that it has been in the past because you'd possibly have more than just one option about how to return to a location.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
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Castlevania Lords Of Shadow took me 25 hrs (give or take) to finish the SP, and I spend another 25 hrs to get everything and nail the platinum, it was an epic journey
So I take it that you would recommend it to someone? I have been thinking of buyin Castlevania for some time now.
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  #48  
Old 09-16-2011, 10:55 PM
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unnecessary dragging out the games time will stuff up the pacing of the, making me personally not-that-happy of a bunny.

But length wise isn't that bad for me as I usually just stick to the main storyline, rarely side quests. But I do hate it when your asked to fork out a stupid amount of money for about a four hour thing --having said that I don't buy games brand new, I wait for pre owned to come down to about Ģ20, which I'll be doing for TR and that way length doesn't bother me
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  #49  
Old 09-17-2011, 06:08 AM
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As someone who will almost always get a new game in the first or second week if I love the look of it, I must admit length is very important to me. I don't want to be able to finish something in an afternoon and I'll feel very cheated if I can.

On the bright side, if I know something's going to be that short ahead of time, it can wait a month or two for the price to drop...
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
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As someone who will almost always get a new game in the first or second week if I love the look of it, I must admit length is very important to me. I don't want to be able to finish something in an afternoon and I'll feel very cheated if I can.

On the bright side, if I know something's going to be that short ahead of time, it can wait a month or two for the price to drop...
The same with me. I loved Mirror's Edge when I bought it a month after release so it dropped by Ģ15 or so and although it was one of the shortest games I've ever played, like 4 hours or something, I didn't feel cheated because it was an amazing game and the only thing I could fault it for was the length. If TR does turn out to be as short as the others then i'll wait until it comes down like you.
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