What about DRM?

[Cupio Minimus]

That's actually a great argument for Steam. Unfortunately my scars haven't healed yet from installing HL2 on a system with a 56k dial-up connection. It was last thing on the third evening that I actually got the game fired up and started configuring the options.

Back to living on a boat... I can access a landline at work, download to lappy and/or USB stick, but if I want the game installed on a boat-bound desktop, I don't see that's gonna help with the legit approach. Steam likes to do considerably more than just okay an installation over a slow connection.

Have funds, want game, please let me buy a hard copy, go home, install and play

[Kodaemon]

Originally Posted by Cupio Minimus

Have funds, want game, please let me buy a hard copy, go home, install and play

This. OVER 9000 this. I don't have much against Steam as a distribution service. But putting steamworks in boxed versions should be illegal.

[Kvltism]

Originally Posted by Cupio Minimus

buy a hard copy, go home, install and play

That is EXACTLY how the process should be.

[SonicTTH]

@ dosbox and others: I'm sorry if my english isn't as good as I thought it would be, so that could be the source of some mistakes... ('capitalism' might not be the right word) however, I think you can get what I mean.

And if you don't understand what I mean with overwatch and controlling the masses, you should look around in your society and see how it is right now.

What I just wanted to say: I'm worried about the way the world is going. One reason for that is the way people need to authenticate themselves if they just want to play games they allready bought for example. Why needs anybody to know that I bought that game? This is my privacy. If you don't understand what I say, it's okay. But you really shouldn't make fun of this.

It's right, there are reasons for steam, like Quillan said for example. But This is something like with an insurance. If you register this stuff on steam, you got the insurance that you could download the game as much as you want. But if I don't want it, I shouldn't be forced to have it. And in 100 Years, Steam won't exist in its way anymore like it does today. Computers will change really much in that time and If steam isn't there anymore and you want to play a game which you have on a dvd (which will then be nostalgic) like Deus Ex 3 here, you're ffed.

Ok. It's for sure that nothing lasts forever, but we have those kind of problem with today's software as well. f.E. at my company we got some really old software which was build with a program called "Borland J-Builder 2" or something like that. To register this software after installing, you need to communicate with some server - but there's NONE there anymore so we can't do anything else but use cracks. Which IS Illegal - even If we can't use our legally bought software for thousands of euros because of the missing support until today.

This kind of problem, we're facing with steam as well. And nobody will care for people who bought their game 30 years ago and support hosting for it in the future.

[sackyhack]

Valve has said repeatedly in the past that if Steam were to ever be shut down, all games would be released from their DRM. So at worst you'd have to download all your Steam games to a HD or dvds to save them, but you'd be able to play them without the Steam servers. That's no different than having a bunch of non-Steam dvds laying around as we already do. Really, if you research Steam a bit you'll see that it's a solid alternative to discs, and Valve has a great track record with fans. Between their ridiculous sales, pre-order discounts, and other features, I haven't bought a disc-based game for a while, only when I want all the bells and whistles of a special edition like Mass Effect 2 or Deus Ex 3.

[thedosbox]

Originally Posted by SonicTTH

What I just wanted to say: I'm worried about the way the world is going. One reason for that is the way people need to authenticate themselves if they just want to play games they allready bought for example. Why needs anybody to know that I bought that game? This is my privacy.

So don't buy the game on release. Instead, support GoG where there is no DRM and the installer can be run on any machine as often as you like. Or wait until the price on steam falls low enough where you think it's worth having to use steam.

Point being, there are choices. You just need to figure out whether compromising your principles is worth being able to play the game when it's shiny and new instead of waiting a few years.

However, based on previous history, I suspect most gamers are "all talk and no trousers".

[SonicTTH]

@sackyhack: Nice information, didn't know about that until now.

@dosbox: Well, it looks like the speech is true: "Each nation has exactly the gouvernment it deserves" - I mean that if we don't or didn't really do anything about this stuff with steam etc., we mabye deserve it the way it is.

[Reven]

Originally Posted by Cupio Minimus

That's actually a great argument for Steam. Unfortunately my scars haven't healed yet from installing HL2 on a system with a 56k dial-up connection. It was last thing on the third evening that I actually got the game fired up and started configuring the options.

Back to living on a boat... I can access a landline at work, download to lappy and/or USB stick, but if I want the game installed on a boat-bound desktop, I don't see that's gonna help with the legit approach. Steam likes to do considerably more than just okay an installation over a slow connection.

Have funds, want game, please let me buy a hard copy, go home, install and play

Count yourself lucky i got the game the same day it came out and i didnt get a net connection in my house until 3 years later.

[Dr Bob]

Originally Posted by Kodaemon

This. OVER 9000 this. I don't have much against Steam as a distribution service. But putting steamworks in boxed versions should be illegal.

Drama queen.

You'd be a great contributor to a newspaper like the Daily Mail or The Sun.

You could blow things out of proportion and attempt to scare people with your stories.

[Daracus]

I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I have to give Steam/Valve credit... they showed the industry that: Their is a very profitable market for PC gaming and their are people who are willing to pay for games if they are of good qualify, not subject to intrusive copy protection schemes and allow users to have unlimited use* of the product they paid for. Especially when a good portion of the industry was crying "Piracy is killing us on the PC market!"

If anything more publishers and digital distribution services are copying steam's business model because it works and they now control a large portion of the PC digital gaming market. EA/D2D, dropped the re-download fees for their digital stores (making them steam-like) and Ubisoft just announced that they will not be using the persistent online connection for Assassin's Creed Brotherhood.

Personally I don't trust any company.... but Steam/Valve genuinely seem to be on side of the customer... and for that I support 'em.

Note*: "use" as in playing ur game w/o installation limits.... yes some games of steam do have install limits (via 3rd party copy protection implemented by publisher) but not Steamworks games.

[Ashpolt]

A great article about DRM from RockPaperShotgun.

I agree with pretty much everything they say in this article.

[Quillan]

Well, this is not a certainty, but I just read over on Gamespot that the PC release of Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood will not have the Ubisoft DRM that AC II and Splinter Cell: Conviction both had. It'll still require online activation, but after that may be played fully offline. If they're not using it for AC:B, then I hope that means they've abandoned the idea.

[Ashpolt]

Originally Posted by Quillan

Well, this is not a certainty, but I just read over on Gamespot that the PC release of Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood will not have the Ubisoft DRM that AC II and Splinter Cell: Conviction both had. It'll still require online activation, but after that may be played fully offline. If they're not using it for AC:B, then I hope that means they've abandoned the idea.

Read the article I've posted above, it talks about AC: Brotherhood's DRM in length. It doesn't require you to be online constantly, but you do have to be online every time you launch the game (not just the first time.) So, better than Ubisoft's old DRM, but still worse than it should be. And, ironically, still worse than the product the pirates will put out.

[mentalkase]

"And therefore your customers, literally unable to use the product you’re selling, will turn to the better offer. At the moment you are charging £35/$60 for a product that is much, much worse than one that can be obtained for free."

Ahh I see ..

[BigBoss]

The day Internet connectivity DRM becomes the mainstay of all video games is the day I quit my favorite hobby.

[St. Mellow]

^ How come you haven't quit yet then? Unless you mean absolute technical 100%, we're pretty much there my friend.

EDIT: Now my comment doesn't make any sense. :P Read on for explanation. Or don't.

[BigBoss]

^ Exactly. I'm not a pc player so It doesn't affect me much

[K^2]

Originally Posted by BigBoss

^ Exactly. I'm not a pc player so It doesn't affect me much

Erm. DRM has been on consoles since NES, and it's stronger than ever now.

[BigBoss]

On Dlc and xbox live arcade yes, but I can play all the games that I enjoy offline.

[jtr7]

Offline 100% of the entire time you possess the game? Or did you ever have to go online at any point for any reason, say, during installation, or starting the game for the first time?

[Cronstintein]

There's cd-required DRM on consoles but other than that what do you mean?

[rokstrombo]

Perhaps my friends are just a bunch of thieves, but many, many of the people I know pirate software and multimedia without a second thought. If they can get it for free they will, even if it costs <$10 to buy. The best predictors of a non-pirate are 1) Small-time software developers or artists, 2) Collectors, 3) Uncommonly enthusiastic about protecting intellectual property, 4) Can't figure out how to use .torrent files, 5) Older than 70, and 5) Already own everything else they could ever want.

I wouldn't be surprised if DRM protected publishers profits.

[BigBoss]

Ok, well when you put it that way that it requires the disc, then fine. What I was talking about was connectivity with the internet. I thought that it was implied that's what the topic was, so I'll fix my statement.

Edit: But to clarify, when I buy a single player game I never have to first connect to the internet. When that becomes the norm is when I'll quit.

[Brock]

Well, soon we will see what happens when someone releases game without DRM because The Witcher 2 will be like that. I hope that move won't destroy them because i like what they are doing with RPG genre and PC gaming.

[Cronstintein]

I'm with you on this one, BigBoss, that's why I was trying to clarify what K^2 meant by "DRM". There's certainly no online DRM a la Ubisoft.