Poll: who was the most dangerous villain?

[massimilianogoi]

In your opinion, who was the most dangerous villain of the Thief world? Vote.

[jtr7]

Karras was going to kill all life for many square kilometers, and populate the stone and metal City remains with robots, and claimed he would kill his own flesh when all was working in perpetuity and self-reliant, without need for himself to guide it and fuel it, so the Builder could be pleased to walk there freely, free from all organic life, for at least a long while.

Constantine didn't want to kill all life, but to remove the Hammerite Order and their tech, create a devastating, city-razing cataclysm, and return The City and manfools to the soil, give reign to plant life, and destroy artificial light that chases back the natural darkness, plunging the survivors into a nightmare world of living in the wilderness with monsters all about, huddled in the darkness, and calling upon the Trickster for protection, relying on him for all good things, and turning their creativity to serve him and chaos. He wanted to take the territory back to pre-Stone Age times.

Gamall was going to become immortal and invincible, expose the Keeper Order so they wouldn't have to hide in secret anymore, and offer any Keeper who wanted immortality the chance to follow her methods. She would make the Keepers the rulers of The City and create a nightmare world where people may or may not be murdered to sustain another's life, but at least most people could leave the area and hope she wouldn't follow or quarantine The City. It would be a dictatorship, of a sort.

[massimilianogoi]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Gamall was going to become immortal and invincible, expose the Keeper Order so they wouldn't have to hide in secret anymore, and offer any Keeper who wanted immortality the chance to follow her methods.

I didn't think Gamall had such an altruism... I've not read anywhere about this.

[jtr7]

What do your game texts say? Read Gamall's journals in her lair. Find the text that says no more secrets and speaks of sharing this power with her brethren.

[Hellion]

I voted for the Woodsie Lord, solely based on the fact that he was, you know, a God :P

Despite that, I still find Karras the most interesting villain. Maybe because of the fact that he was human, or because of the way he manipulated the City's nobility in order to progress his "servants" plan ("I present to each...a gift: the most wondrous yet of my innovations, a living worker suited to all household tasks, ready always to perform your bidding. I call them...the 'Servants.' The Servant knows not how to lead or gossip. The Servant knows only how to tirelessly perform thy will...be it cooking, cleaning, or gardening. Pleease...accept them with my gratititude"), maybe because of his creepy voice...or simply because the Children of Karras are amongst the scariest enemies I've faced in a game.

[TheJoker]

Easily Karras (:

[theBlackman]

Originally Posted by Hellion

I voted for the Woodsie Lord, solely based on the fact that he was, you know, a God :P

Despite that, I still find Karras the most interesting villain. Maybe because of the fact that he was human, or because of the way he manipulated the City's nobility in order to progress his "servants" plan ("I present to each...a gift: the most wondrous yet of my innovations, a living worker suited to all household tasks, ready always to perform your bidding. I call them...the 'Servants.' The Servant knows not how to lead or gossip. The Servant knows only how to tirelessly perform thy will...be it cooking, cleaning, or gardening. Pleease...accept them with my gratititude"), maybe because of his creepy voice...or simply because the Children of Karras are amongst the scariest enemies I've faced in a game.

I don't know. Any enemy you can kill with an ENEMA is not that scary.

[jtr7]

The Eye is the scary one. Eek!

[glyph07]

The Woodsie Lord and Karras were equally dangerous (although the nature of the first implies he had more power) but they operated on different levels and by very different means. As the question specifically requiers to point out the most dengerous villan of the Thief World in its globality...hm...I'd vote for Karras, since he's the mass murderer type. The Woodise Lord is a God but as such he doesn't really destroy everything and everyone for the sake of doing it. You know...a God also creates , while a fanatic sees only his obsession. Oh...and as for Gamall....I think u all know by now how little I think of TDS...so I just prefer to pretend she doesn't count!

[Vae]

"Who was the most dangerous villain in Thief?"

Clearly it was (actually is) "The Trickster god". We're not dealing with an extraordinary creature of The City or The World, like Gamall, Karras, or Garrett...but an entity of extra-planer origin with supernal power. The Trickster god simply outclasses every known entity in The THIEF Universe, save for The Builder god...and therefore poses the greatest level of threat or danger, regardless of extreme intentions exhibited by the other, lesser, less capable creatures.

Make no mistake...if Garrett wasn't extremely fortunate to catch wind of a unique opportunity to use The Trickster's own power against himself, there wouldn't have been a prayers chance in Hell to stop him. And yes, it was The Trickster's own power that ultimately destroyed his temporal form. The Trickster used The Eye as a spell component in his own, unique, meta-arcane spell, "The Great Ritual"...This level of spellcraft ability is inherent to the power of The Trickster god, and far beyond the power of The Eye...The Eye could never have performed an act of such great magnitude by itself. The Eye was simply used as a focalizing catalyst/amplifier in the grand formula...in essence, it's power was only a fraction of the overall power expressed by this god-level spell.

The Trickster god is able to command vast power through will and ritual:

- As a god-level elementalist, he commanded the earth to swallow an entire civilization.

- As a god-level Creator/Necromancer, he has said to have created plant-life, and the wild creatures in The World and in The Maw...also, he has the ability to combine creatures so as to create new ones...He also gave the Pagans the ability to raise the dead as Undead.

- As a god-level Transmuter, he has the ability to alter the fabric of space itself, and is capable of merging separate planes of existence together...and he can grow to a colossal size, and shape-shift at will.

The Trickster god has been known to re-appear throughout recorded history, and is in a seemingly endless battle with The Builder god, for supremacy of The City and The World.

The fact that he needed a sentient artifact as a spell component (The Eye), in order to merge two planes of existence together, does not undermine his overall god-level potency...it only means that he is not All-Powerful.

[jtr7]

Well, there's potentially dangerous and absolutely dangerous. The Trickster is not anti-life, so I disagree. If he stopped caring about the living, then he could beat Karras, but it's conditional, not straight up how it is.

[ChristheThief]

I'd say the Trickster, he had god-like powers and was (near enough)all-powerful.

[xAcerbusx]

Karras and Gamall were a danger to the City.
The Trickster's menace threatened the entire world.

I'm going with Constantine on this one.

[massimilianogoi]

Originally Posted by Vae

"Who was the most dangerous villain in Thief?"

Clearly it was (actually is) "The Trickster god". We're not dealing with an extraordinary creature of The City or The World, like Gamall, Karras, or Garrett...but an entity of extra-planer origin with supernal power. The Trickster god simply outclasses every known entity in The THIEF Universe, save for The Builder god...and therefore poses the greatest level of threat or danger, regardless of extreme intentions exhibited by the other, lesser, less capable creatures.

Make no mistake...if Garrett wasn't extremely fortunate to catch wind of a unique opportunity to use The Trickster's own power against himself, there wouldn't have been a prayers chance in Hell to stop him. And yes, it was The Trickster's own power that ultimately destroyed his temporal form. The Trickster used The Eye as a spell component in his own, unique, meta-arcane spell, "The Great Ritual"...This level of spellcraft ability is inherent to the power of The Trickster god, and far beyond the power of The Eye...The Eye could never have performed an act of such great magnitude by itself. The Eye was simply used as a focalizing catalyst/amplifier in the grand formula...in essence, it's power was only a fraction of the overall power expressed by this god-level spell.

The Trickster god is able to command vast power through will and ritual:

- As a god-level elementalist, he commanded the earth to swallow an entire civilization.

- As a god-level Creator/Necromancer, he has said to have created plant-life, and the wild creatures in The World and in The Maw...also, he has the ability to combine creatures so as to create new ones...He also gave the Pagans the ability to raise the dead as Undead.

- As a god-level Transmuter, he has the ability to alter the fabric of space itself, and is capable of merging separate planes of existence together...and he can grow to a colossal size, and shape-shift at will.

The Trickster god has been known to re-appear throughout recorded history, and is in a seemingly endless battle with The Builder god, for supremacy of The City and The World.

The fact that he needed a sentient artifact as a spell component (The Eye), in order to merge two planes of existence together, does not undermine his overall god-level potency...it only means that he is not All-Powerful.

I didn't have voted, because I've created this post to see the others's thoughts, but I'm pretty near to this thought, I confess. A god is far away more powerful than the most powerful of the men in the world.

Originally Posted by jtr7

... If he stopped caring about the living, then he could beat Karras, but it's conditional, not straight up how it is.

??

What sense has this? If he stopped caring about the living, then he could beat Karras?? But in that case he would neither fight Karras! Because Karras himself wanted to destroy all the organic being, that corresponds also to the greatest part of the living beings, then the Trickster would not have mind it, because he would have not cared about the living...

Originally Posted by ChristheThief

I'd say the Trickster, he had god-like powers and was (near enough)all-powerful.

If someone is omnipotent, do he need of a spell to do something for his will??....

Originally Posted by xAcerbusx

Karras and Gamall were a danger to the City.
The Trickster's menace threatened the entire world.

I'm going with Constantine on this one.

Yeah, that's what I think too.

And there's still one thing to say: Gamall was indestructibile, safe for the Last Glyph's activation, while Karras, and his entire army, weren't...

[jtr7]

What? Wow.


If Con didn't care about the living, Karras would never have been born, and if he had, he would've died before he created the Mechanist Order. Con wanted people to remain after he destroyed The City. He wanted to be worshipped.

[massimilianogoi]

Then why "If he stopped caring about the living, then he could beat Karras"?

Anyway, Const is winning.