Legacy of Kain Saga @ GOG ? Please?

[essex1990]

Originally Posted by Raina Audron

The game also misses some of the sounds - notably the material Reaver swinging sound (spectral one is just as should be), but this issue was present in the original pc release too..

The biggest letdown though is that it has the same limited amount of music (no spectral tracks at all) and only 2 minute remixes, just like the original pc release. If PS and DC versions were capable of having music which is based on triggers, why not pc too? It degrades otherwise awesome experience.

You will also get a pdf manual and artwork images with the download.

The original tomb raider had an MP3 fix where they entire PSX version soundtrack was available (with the triggers recoded in) but that was done by a fan for the glidos version.

[The Hylden]

The sound on SR1 and even on 2 and through Defiance, has always had on PC a tendency to have instances where sounds cut out, get caught in loops, etc. Usually for SR1, the Reaver sound will get caught in a loop, or fire will loop, a music track might cut out, or continue past where it should change over. I noticed it's greatly improved with wrace's patched version, though. The music, especially, changes a lot more and it's so much better.

These sound loops and such also happen on the PSX version, just to a lesser extent.

[Raina Audron]

Originally Posted by Vampmaster

It doesn't sound like the sound issue is something caused by the patches. I think Raina is saying the sound on the PC version was never as good as the console versions to begin with. If you feel like looking into that, you should try looking at the music debug menu. The notes I gave you a while ago show you how to set the default sound track for an area.

Exactly. It seems it was due to the original pc porting team, since the swoosh sound of the material Reaver is missing only on PC (there is a "swoosh" sound and a "lightsaber" sound present when you swing the blade in PS and DC versions).

That would be most excellent if somebody could re-enable the dynamic music change/blending in the pc version. Could you maybe try to look into it Wrace? I and I´m sure lots of others would be very grateful!

The Hylden: The music changes often in pc because it was remixed into a 2 minute mixture of normal, suspenseful, danger and sometimes combat music altogether. So a combat track will play briefly even in area when there are no enemies present because it is part of the track itself and not as a seperate track which seemlessly blends in if you are actually near an enemy. Strangely, the transition between areas takes much longer now and often, the previous music track keeps playing in the new area. Though I found out that if you press escape and go back to the game, this triggers the new music instantly.

Paradoks: The well blended and dynamic music changing based on what was happening in the game in SR1 was one of its great features. SR1 has about 150 music tracks (altogether 10 hours long) in total and the pc version is missing on almost everything - the memorable boss encounter themes (all of bosses on the pc have Necropolis combat theme playing instead), the spectral versions, the change of pace when you enter an outdoor/indoor area, different variation when you are solving a puzzle or the combat and danger music when near an enemy or fighting it. Not to mention all of the Glyphs have a great tracks as well which are omitted on the pc..

Essex: Really? I didn´t know it was possible. That´s great! If only it was possible with SR1 as well..

I have uploaded the high quality version found on SR2 disc. Whom should I contact so that maybe it can be swapped out? It´s an AVI though, so maybe somebody can covert it to .bik.

[The Hylden]

Originally Posted by Raina Audron

The Hylden: The music changes often in pc because it was remixed into a 2 minute mixture of normal, suspenseful, danger and sometimes combat music altogether. So a combat track will play briefly even in area when there are no enemies present because it is part of the track itself and not as a seperate track which seemlessly blends in if you are actually near an enemy. Strangely, the transition between areas takes much longer now and often, the previous music track keeps playing in the new area. Though I found out that if you press escape and go back to the game, this triggers the new music instantly.

Indeed. I always used to pause the game when the music went into its infinite loop cycle. I do think that this patched version (not on GOG, but with the patches alone) allows more transition music to happen. That's on my end, however. It may not be doing so for others. Or, maybe the last time I played it I was just blown away by the game playing without warbling textures and looking like an HD upgrade, almost, or like the Dreamcast version on PC suddenly. I love what those patches have done.

I have uploaded the high quality version found on SR2 disc. Whom should I contact so that maybe it can be swapped out? It´s an AVI though, so maybe somebody can covert it to .bik.

There's a link in wrace's site for it, I believe, that also converts AVI. That's how I made the one I uploaded and gave wrace. He replied he does have this file, however, if yours is at a higher quality (above 100 mb), then I'd say give him that one, instead. Or, whomever at GOG that needs to be contacted.

[wrace]

Vampmaster, thanks for your explanation.

Originally Posted by Raina Audron

That would be most excellent if somebody could re-enable the dynamic music change/blending in the pc version. Could you maybe try to look into it Wrace?

I can try, but I think that it is global feature of the PC version game core (triggers or something else).

Originally Posted by Raina Audron

I have uploaded the high quality version found on SR2 disc. Whom should I contact so that maybe it can be swapped out? It´s an AVI though, so maybe somebody can covert it to .bik.

We converted avi to bik by the official Rad Video Tools.
Does your version of intro differ from one in the bink-patch?

[Raina Audron]

wrace: about the audio - thanks, let me know if you find out anything.

oh okay then, I think it doesn´t differ from yours. Maybe you can contact gog and suggest them to replace the video with the actual version.

[The Hylden]

My wording might have confused you, Raina. He has the file I uploaded with the correct version, but it's not included in the patches:

Originally Posted by wrace

About intro: we take it from extras of SR2-PS2 and also I remember that The Hylden accepted another one version which is not included yet in the our "official" version of bink-patch.

So, again, if your file is higher rez even than mine, by all means use that.

[Vampmaster]

Originally Posted by Raina Audron

Exactly. It seems it was due to the original pc porting team, since the swoosh sound of the material Reaver is missing only on PC (there is a "swoosh" sound and a "lightsaber" sound present when you swing the blade in PS and DC versions).

That would be most excellent if somebody could re-enable the dynamic music change/blending in the pc version. Could you maybe try to look into it Wrace? I and I´m sure lots of others would be very grateful!

Ok, so it sounds like there's two issues here. Sounds not playing and music not changing when it should is something I think could be fixed by looking at the functions in the sound debug menu. The crossfade is a seperate thing that I don't know much about. If the feature simply isn't in the game it would be difficult to do anything about that.

[Raina Audron]

Hylden: yeah, I meant it like that, but the one I got is only 50MB. Is there anyway you could upload your version on sendspace?

Vampmaster: Yeah, it seems that they for some reason couldn´t emulate the way music changes according to player´s position in the pc and probably didn´t implement it, which is disappointing.. :/

I used your trainer since it shows if music variations are playing:
PC version:


(click image to enlarge)

PS version:

(click image to enlarge)

wrace: I have tried the debug menu, it works well! it´s fun to swim around the only downside is that it has lesser options than Vampmaster´s one. Since you got the high-res intro cutscene as bik already, could you maybe upload it separately? Will swapping out this file with the incorrect one in the game´s folder work in the game?

[Vampmaster]

A lot of the menus and options that were in the beta were missing from the retail version. The reason I my trainer changes makes so many changes is that it rebuilds the deleted ones.

[wrace]

About sounds: I remembered that when I checked contents of music.dat and voices.dat I found only 10 soundtracks (in music.dat) and minimum sfx's in voices.dat (but also some voices from movies and ones from the first version of SR1 - like words to Turel and something else). Vampmaster, you better know - how do you think, the appropriate sfx's can lie inside bigfile.dat as part of models?

About intro: in the bink-support already used the hi-quality (with default resolution 640x480 instead of 320x240 - the default resolution of movies in SR1: PC, PS, DreamCast - for example, credits.bik is from DreamCast version of SR1) intro-movie from extras of SR2-PS2 which is converted from avi-file with size of 50 Mb into bink (we obtained the better possible quality with the minimum file size - in my own version of SR1 the appropriate size of this intro is 128 Mb).
As I know there is no ways to obtain the version of SR1-intro with the better quality and I also can say that it is possible to do slighter improvement of the bink-file quality by increasing its size by choosing the greater settings in RAD Video Tools when you convert it from the appropriate avi-file.
By the way: you can convert your version of intro into bink (by using Rad Video Tools and choosing settings for converting) and compare how it looks in the game (comparison of two versions in the fullscreen mode is better way), - by that you just need to replace intro.bik in the game folder by your version.

Originally Posted by The Hylden

So, again, if your file is higher rez even than mine, by all means use that.

I do not remember whether I download your file. May be let Raina Audron test it?

Originally Posted by Raina Audron

the only downside is that it has lesser options than Vampmaster´s one.

Yep, I know, - these additional options is the personal property of Vampmaster (his own research) and I do not want to include all features for that it will be reason for fans to use his trainer as alternative version with some additional features.
And as I remembered both trainers do not conflict and supplement each other, - i.e. after the first run Vampmaster's debug menu, it will be activated in its full form both by the trainer's key and by the code 16443 and it also will contain updated swim mode.

[Paradoks]

A quick question. How many versions of the intro exactly are there? I know that there is the early version that was available at Lost Worlds (which personally I didn't like at all - it sounded as if Michael Bell was fooling around with that one), but are there any differences (besides video quality) between PC/PS1/DC/SR2 bonus versions?

Edit: I just checked. Wrace's patch is using the 'weird' version I mentioned. Hylden's version is the official release seen (or rather heard, because the graphics is obviously improved) in retail PC version. Does GOG use yet another version?

[Vampmaster]

Originally Posted by wrace

About sounds: I remembered that when I checked contents of music.dat and voices.dat I found only 10 soundtracks (in music.dat) and minimum sfx's in voices.dat (but also some voices from movies and ones from the first version of SR1 - like words to Turel and something else). Vampmaster, you better know - how do you think, the appropriate sfx's can lie inside bigfile.dat as part of models?

There are some sounds in the pmf files within bigfile.dat, but I think Ben knows more about those than I do. I don't know if there's any way to read them, but you can extract them using Soul Spiral.

EDIT: Correction, instructions on how to read the pmf files are here: http://www.thelostworlds.net/HowTo/E..._Audio_PC.html

[wrace]

Originally Posted by Paradoks

Does GOG use yet another version?

gog.com uses the same version as in bink patch (from extras of SR2-PS2).
Because, as I understand, only The Hylden has another - the third - version of the intro.

Originally Posted by Paradoks

Hylden's version is the official release seen (or rather heard, because the graphics is obviously improved) in retail PC version.

hm, what is "retail PC version"? What are resolution of movies in this one?

I think that the easiest way to check - just to obtain worked link on the intro-movie from The Hylden (avi-file, for example, - to check its default resolution and quality).

But there is one problem - now he is moderator, and - as I remember (in my own experience) - placing links on movies on this forum is the violation of its TOU.

So, "there had to be another way".

P.S.: Vampmaster, thanks.

P.P.S.: I checked the early version that is available at The Lost Worlds (and which looks like original PC-version as I remember - I talked about words and picture (not about voices) - but (or also) really has "a growl added when Kain sees Raziel's wings" about which The Hylden talked; in my opinion this growl is the same as sfx of dumahim or turelim, - i.e. such small glitch since Kain has another sfx's; also this intro has black borders on both sides of video), - though it have resolution of 640x480, its true resolution is 320x240 because in the same screen of the video-player the version from SR-PS2 has the better quality.
So I want to ask The Hylden: from where (and with which default resolution) do you take your version of intro-movie?
Also I want to note that movies with default resolution 320x240 looks bad in the fullscreen-mode on the newest pc.

[Paradoks]

I'm not sure how legal or illegal placing it is, but I can say - check GOG forums. I uploaded the said file to Hotfile.
The problem is - it has a fixed 16:9 ratio so it's 'squished' on my 16:10 monitor.

Edit: That's the bik version however. I don't have the original AVI, and I think that was originally posted by Divine Shadow a few years ago.

[wrace]

Paradoks, I added p.p.s. in my post above and also checked gog-forum (theme of SR1-release) and do not find any links. Send the link for me in PM.

BTW, the intro from extras of SR2-PS2 has usual ratio 4:3 (16:12), - where do you find intro with the ratio 16:9?

[Paradoks]

Sent. It's 16:9 because it has black bars on the sides. So it's not 'real' 16:9.

[wrace]

hm, I looked the third version of the intro.
I think that it is the same version as in SR2-PS2, but it was captured by the Fraps or something like program from the running game, - so appeared stretching (black borders), picture sometimes moves frame-by-frame and perhaps, appears slighter difference in voices.
In the game these black borders will be always - for any resolution.
About quality: if you set the high parameters in Rad Video Tools when you convert intro from extras of SR2-PS2 into bink, so you can obtain the better quality (like the original) but the size of the resulting bink-file will be about 200-300 Mb.
The intro with the black borders has less size by the evident reason (it is not needed to code these black borders).

So, my result: the bink-support includes the better version of the intro - the better compromise between the quality of the intro and its size, and do not include additional bags like I described above.

If you want to increase the quality of the intro - you can take intro from extras of SR2-PS2 and convert it into bink with higher settings then we used.

Also you can used any other versions of intro if you prefer.

Only one thing that you need to do - just replace intro.bik in the game folder by your own version.

[Paradoks]

Picture quality aside - the main problem is the sound.
It's not just the voice difference - it's the script difference. 'The gift continued to evolve' is not present by default in any version of the game.
The best quality I've seen so far was Divine's Shadow file, that unfortunately I don't have any more.

[The Hylden]

Hold up, who's using what, now? (I may be sleepy, but I'm generally questioning here) Are we discussing my version uploaded here against the bik one, or someone else's? If you need mine uploaded again, I'll do it.

[Paradoks]

I reuploaded the version from Megaupload. I hope you don't mind, sorry for not asking first (acted on an impulse). I'll delete it if you want.

[The Hylden]

No, that's fine. So, that's the one you are talking about in the posts above, that's got the black bars on the sides?

If so, then there's a reason I left it like that. It can be "fixed" from this, however, note all that SR1 and all within it was never recorded for wide screen. As such, the intro stretches to fit wide screen monitors, just as the ingame does on those resolutions. For the intro, it just doesn't look very good with a wide stretched Kain and Raziel, to me. And I think most people are playing anything on a wide screen monitor these days.

[Paradoks]

Do you happen to still have the 'source' AVI file? And can you say what was the source for that source ?
I understand the reasoning behind the black bars, but that can be fixed be setting 'maintain aspect ratio' in graphic card options.

[The Hylden]

Well, I appear to have two versions of the intro. Not sure, but I think one I grabbed from a YouTube upload and one is from a friend, who might have gotten it from Divine Shadow.

Amazingly, in the progress of rendering the version you also have, Paradoks, just now I found on another drive the other intro that is already at the right aspect ratio (the one that might have come from DS, or some other forumer way back when). Honestly, it's 57 mb, but I think the only reason the other one is 100 is due to rendering all of those black bar pixels (and it might have been blown up just a bit). I'm actually convinced this one I found at 57mb is the best one to use for two other reasons, now looking at it. 1, it's brighter, so it hasn't lost any of the image by any darkening of any type, and two, it plays at the best frames per second. For some reason, the one you have from me I did notice is set at 24 fps. However, this one looks to be running at 30 fps (29.97), so it's much, much smoother.

Let me get to uploading it and that should solve the problem (finally, lol).

[wrace]

Guys, intro from extras of SR2-PS2 - it is OFFICIAL hi-res Eidos-version of the file, which was created at least 2 years after SR1-release, so I think that it is more right version.

We do not know from where the other version is obtained and why does it have black borders and frame-by-frame moving picture (sometimes).
The words "The gift continued to evolve" is true - remember lieutenants in SR1.

Originally Posted by Paradoks

I understand the reasoning behind the black bars, but that can be fixed be setting 'maintain aspect ratio' in graphic card options.

Do you check this?

And one more: I saw some fan-clips in which Raziel from SR2-intro looks also stretching up (as in The Hylden's version of intro) though in the real intro it is not so.

Originally Posted by Paradoks

The best quality I've seen so far was Divine's Shadow file, that unfortunately I don't have any more.

Ask Raina Audron for original intro from SR2-PS2, - you will see the original quality.
I also have one, but it is needed 2 hours for me to upload it (avi) on the host.

Also: in the game folder with installed SR1 should lie BinkPlay.exe, - you can use it to play bik-files in the fullscreen-mode (in the game you will see the same result).

P.S.: The Hylden, from where do you take such intro's?
May be in the same "place" are there all hq movies from SR1?