A "strange" thought hit me about Joker...

[Joseph Kerstein]

Just now I was thinking about Joker and his illness. Ever since we saw that trailer, it seems everyone is focused on Hugo Strange and of course the awesomeness of the mercs and such... and then a bizarre idea popped into my mind. We all know Joker is ill, but from what we've no idea. Some think it's possibly Titan, but it's been a whole year and the devs (I think) dropped hints that it had nothing to do with Titan.

Some think cancer or some other deadly ailment, but just now something hit me. We all know that Joker doesn't care about who Batman is under the mask - he only cares about "the mask" itself; Batman. We also saw Hugo Strange torturing that captain to gain any info out of him, and finally the man died apparently from the abuse... What if Joker KNOWS Batman's identity, but just doesn't care? That'd go along with the comics and how they often hinted that Joker knows, just doesn't give a crap.

I know it's a stretch, but my mind is just going nuts with ideas. What if Joker knows, was captured by Hugo and interrogated and resisted for a long time? What if after the torture Joker was too drugged to resist anymore and blurted something out? Hugo drops Joker back into the city to let him rot or whatever. I do still think that Oracle being captured is a more likely reason for his knowing of his secret identity, but this one had some appeal and did lend a possible explanation for Joker's sickness. Just a thought.

Anyone else got some crazy ideas or opinions on this one?

[airblitz7]

Joker isn't the type of person that can be interrogated that easily. Heck, if I were to empathize with Hugo Strange, I wouldn't trust Joker's word anyway. He may have been tortured and drugged; but I highly doubt he is the cause of the divulgence of Batman's identity.

Seriously, if he actually knew, but didn't care, wouldn't he tell anyone who asks? Remember, this is the joker we're talking about. He'll think it to be fun to let Hugo Strange know his identity, so thats an option, but interrogated? I highly doubt it.

[gazzilla8000]

Its a credible theory, but I can't see the writers straight up admitting the Joker knows Batman's identity.

[FearGasVictim09]

I had a quite similar theory in my mind when I saw the new trailer and what strange did to the tyga-captain.
what if strange just wanted to get information out of the joker and interrogated him for that? informations about batman, without believing that the joker knows batmans identitiy. maybe strange even thought the joker would know it, but he didn't, so he let joker free.
I think joker's illness could have something to do with hugo strange being in arkham city.

[-The_Legend-]

I don't belive the Joker knows how Batman really is. Remember when you walk into the building and the camera switches to 1st person mode (the name of the building escapes me at the moment), the first time you go in there he asks you a question. He says "Lets start with the big one. Who is that behind the mask? Why do you feel the need to go out in the world and stop people like me?" Unless Joker is playing around I don't believe he knows at this time.

[Scarecrow007]

Originally Posted by -The_Legend-

I don't belive the Joker knows how Batman really is. Remember when you walk into the building and the camera switches to 1st person mode (the name of the building escapes me at the moment), the first time you go in there he asks you a question. He says "Lets start with the big one. Who is that behind the mask? Why do you feel the need to go out in the world and stop people like me?" Unless Joker is playing around I don't believe he knows at this time.

Well there is a time gap between Arkham Asylum and Arkham City...maybe something happened during that gap.

[kadashi666]

*looks at title of thread* Ahhhhh, i see what ya did there. ^_^

[thejokethatkills]

The thing with the Joker is even he did know who Batman is he would never tell anyone else. The reason why is that he believes that he and he alone should have the right to know who Batman is. He has been his arch enemy for years and there has been no other villain more hell bent on fighting Batman; to the Joker, Batman is his straight man who he needs to make his acts of violence have a punchline. Joker does not believe any other villain has the right to know.

As for Hugo Strange torturing the Joker, I really like that idea, but I think that perhaps Joker collaborated with Strange to perform experiments on him. We all know there is at least one case of titan left out there, perhaps Strange got a hold of it and is trying to perfect it even further or use several compounds from within in it to create a more dangerous substance. Maby that's why he's been testing Batman, to know his exact movements to make something formidable enough to take him down. In the magazine a few months back it said that Catwoman said Joker is working with Strange so I think Joker allowed himself to test an experiment out, it went horribly wrong, and now he is slowly dying.

[rjh094]

the Joker knowing Batman's identity is bit of a stretch. So i doubt it.

[The Bat]

I think there is going to be two separate stories in the game, with Joker and Two Face's rivalries that focus on gaining control of Arkham City or something like that THEN there is Hugo Strange who has has his own plans for Batman. Just my opinion.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

Im 100% sure Joker knows it but like you said he doesnt care. I bet Joker is so happy that there is a Arkham City that he would tell Strange as like a thank you or somthing.

[Joseph Kerstein]

Originally Posted by airblitz7

Joker isn't the type of person that can be interrogated that easily. Heck, if I were to empathize with Hugo Strange, I wouldn't trust Joker's word anyway. He may have been tortured and drugged; but I highly doubt he is the cause of the divulgence of Batman's identity.

Seriously, if he actually knew, but didn't care, wouldn't he tell anyone who asks? Remember, this is the joker we're talking about. He'll think it to be fun to let Hugo Strange know his identity, so thats an option, but interrogated? I highly doubt it.

My dear lad, being that Joker is my top favorite villain of all time I know him quite well. I know his thought processes. I know how he wears his flippin underwear. I know he can be an incredibly tough egg to crack and I never intended for my post to come off as thinking he was going to break easily, if break at all, but a good enough amount of drugs can do a lot to a person and make them blab. Fact is that he has been forced into doing things he never wanted to do even in the comics, though it always took extreme measures. Someone like Hugo Strange would indeed go as far as he could to gain info.

I don't believe he'd tell anyone. Ever. Batman to him is just Batman. Whoever is behind the mask may or may not be important to him. He has.... issues.... with those that wear tights like his and parade around either as his side-kick or stand-in. Recall in "Return of The Joker" where he calls Terry's Batman a "Batfake"? If one person knew who Batman was, then in due time everyone under the sun would know and Bruce Wayne would be in serious danger. If Bruce Wayne dies, so too does Batman, and _no one_ has the right to actually succeed at snuffing out the Bat. Sure, Joker sends millions of thugs and even allows villains to throw Batsy around, but to Joker that's just a silly game they're playing. He thinks... no... he KNOWS Batman won't die because he's just that good.


Glad I got some people discussing it. It's a "plausible" theory and even I doubt it, but it got my mind thinking about all the possible explanations for Strange's knowledge of Batman's identity, Joker's ill conditions, and then some.

[FearGasVictim09]

Originally Posted by thejokethatkills

The thing with the Joker is even he did know who Batman is he would never tell anyone else. The reason why is that he believes that he and he alone should have the right to know who Batman is. He has been his arch enemy for years and there has been no other villain more hell bent on fighting Batman; to the Joker, Batman is his straight man who he needs to make his acts of violence have a punchline. Joker does not believe any other villain has the right to know.

As for Hugo Strange torturing the Joker, I really like that idea, but I think that perhaps Joker collaborated with Strange to perform experiments on him. We all know there is at least one case of titan left out there, perhaps Strange got a hold of it and is trying to perfect it even further or use several compounds from within in it to create a more dangerous substance. Maby that's why he's been testing Batman, to know his exact movements to make something formidable enough to take him down. In the magazine a few months back it said that Catwoman said Joker is working with Strange so I think Joker allowed himself to test an experiment out, it went horribly wrong, and now he is slowly dying.

yeah I just remembered that article too and I think your theory sounds very plausible. it would be fitting if strange is the reason for joker's physical condition.
I really like the way the story seems to be built so far.
with this joker/strange backstory overshadowing the whole situation of gang wars and the fight for 'the crown of arkham city'.
very cool idea to mix it all up.

[BigBoss]

So pretty much.......we don't know anything

[martian1127]

Originally Posted by Joseph Kerstein

Just now I was thinking about Joker and his illness. Ever since we saw that trailer, it seems everyone is focused on Hugo Strange and of course the awesomeness of the mercs and such... and then a bizarre idea popped into my mind. We all know Joker is ill, but from what we've no idea. Some think it's possibly Titan, but it's been a whole year and the devs (I think) dropped hints that it had nothing to do with Titan.

Some think cancer or some other deadly ailment, but just now something hit me. We all know that Joker doesn't care about who Batman is under the mask - he only cares about "the mask" itself; Batman. We also saw Hugo Strange torturing that captain to gain any info out of him, and finally the man died apparently from the abuse... What if Joker KNOWS Batman's identity, but just doesn't care? That'd go along with the comics and how they often hinted that Joker knows, just doesn't give a crap.

I know it's a stretch, but my mind is just going nuts with ideas. What if Joker knows, was captured by Hugo and interrogated and resisted for a long time? What if after the torture Joker was too drugged to resist anymore and blurted something out? Hugo drops Joker back into the city to let him rot or whatever. I do still think that Oracle being captured is a more likely reason for his knowing of his secret identity, but this one had some appeal and did lend a possible explanation for Joker's sickness. Just a thought.

Anyone else got some crazy ideas or opinions on this one?

Well there are a lot of flaws with an idea like that. When we saw Joker in the first trailer, there was an explosion outside and Harley Quin kissed him on the cheek. Also, he was laughing his guts out, so he was happy about something. If Hugo tortured Joker and gained info, against Joker's will, Joker would not be to happy about that. One could say that Joker and his team managed to corrupt Hugo's plans, which then would explain why he was laughing in the trailer. Joker, however does not know who Batman is. He even asked Batman during a segment in the visiting center. One of his funny questions was "Who is it behind the mask"

As for Oracle, I could see that being the reason why Hugo knows Batman's identity. But, the only way for Hugo to find out where Oracle is, is if someone told him. The only person that would know is Riddler. Remember in the first game, how he hacked the batman commutation signal? Some how he could have gotten enough information and traced it back to the source. As soon as you find all the Riddler clues, he gets arrested. Arkham City takes place a year after the events from the first game, so Riddler has probably escaped from jail by then. Riddler, could have easily offered his information to Hugo Strange for a small price. That price could have been money or a seat on the party list.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

Remember that the Warden does have chemeicals similart to titan that makes people like zombies

[martian1127]

Originally Posted by Batman The Trailer Hunter

Remember that the Warden does have chemeicals similart to titan that makes people like zombies

Yes I do. Hugo Strange experimented with this in a hospital that he owned in the Batman detective comics. Hugo Strange has a wide variety of things he has done. He even did something similar to fear toxin. But his most handy work comes from turning people into hulking zombies and using a concentrated lightning machine to create dense fog. Hmm, I wonder if Hugo Strange owns Gotham General Hospital? We saw this on Joker's suction bag on his wheel chair. It is possible that Joker could be recovering from these symptom.

Wait a minute. That makes perfect sense. In the comics Strange owned a private hospital for Gotham's wealthy citizens. During the series, Bruce Wayne checks into the hospital, having recovered from radiation burns from a battle with Doctor Phosphorus. Strange, manages to find out who Batman is. Who decides to auction this information to villains like Penguin, Joker, and Rupert Thorne. Rupert Throne however orders to have Stange beaten up in order to reveal the information and Strange dies; but some how comes back to life to haunt Thorne.

Could this be a semi-plot for Hugo Strange. Other than dying, Strange find out who Batman is when Wayne checks into Gotham General? Could Joker have also been a subject to Hugo's zombie experiments? If so, how did he manage to recover?

[thejokethatkills]

Originally Posted by martian1127

Yes I do. Hugo Strange experimented with this in a hospital that he owned in the Batman detective comics. Hugo Strange has a wide variety of things he has done. He even did something similar to fear toxin. But his most handy work comes from turning people into hulking zombies and using a concentrated lightning machine to create dense fog. Hmm, I wonder if Hugo Strange owns Gotham General Hospital? We saw this on Joker's suction bag on his wheel chair. It is possible that Joker could be recovering from these symptom.

Wait a minute. That makes perfect sense. In the comics Strange owned a private hospital for Gotham's wealthy citizens. During the series, Bruce Wayne checks into the hospital, having recovered from radiation burns from a battle with Doctor Phosphorus. Strange, manages to find out who Batman is. Who decides to auction this information to villains like Penguin, Joker, and Rupert Thorne. Rupert Throne however orders to have Stange beaten up in order to reveal the information and Strange dies; but some how comes back to life to haunt Thorne.

Could this be a semi-plot for Hugo Strange. Other than dying, Strange find out who Batman is when Wayne checks into Gotham General? Could Joker have also been a subject to Hugo's zombie experiments? If so, how did he manage to recover?

That's a good idea, but I think that branches a little too off territory for the AA/AC universe. Yeah, they had people turn into monsters, but to have people dying and then coming back would be a little too bizarre and out of style for this type of atmosphere. Then again this is only my opinion, so who knows?

[Joseph Kerstein]

Originally Posted by thejokethatkills

That's a good idea, but I think that branches a little too off territory for the AA/AC universe. Yeah, they had people turn into monsters, but to have people dying and then coming back would be a little too bizarre and out of style for this type of atmosphere. Then again this is only my opinion, so who knows?

Before it was fully solved, the whole "Spirit of Arkham" thing was really awesome. I loved that ghostly feeling it gave off. A lot of the first game had that creepy, almost horror movie feel to it. Between the spirit of Arkham, Scarecrow, the graveyard, and the looneys that Joker sprung, it had a very creepy atmosphere. A real ghost appearing, if only one, wouldn't seem all that out of place in AC.

At least not in my opinion.

[HA_laughingfish_HA]

I still get the vibe that Joker and Hugo hate each other tons. It makes sense honestly:
Hugo knows who Batman is; therefore, Joker hates him because he's a threat to ruin all of Joker's "fun" by spilling the beans. On the other side of this Hugo would hate Joker for all of his troublesome chaos and discord in Arkham City. Hugo is absolutely obsessesed with Batman and through the trailer we have seen the lengths he is willing to go through to study/decode him. Problem here being, who knows Batman almost better than Batman himself? Joker. I'm sure Hugo will have had multiple sessions with Uncle J probably to no avail which only fuels his madness. Joker does like to screw with people
All of this comes down to the fact that it might be as simple as Hugo tried to kill Joker with poison out of anger and yet he survived, but for how long? dun dun dunnnnnn

[Joseph Kerstein]

Originally Posted by HA_laughingfish_HA

I still get the vibe that Joker and Hugo hate each other tons. It makes sense honestly:
Hugo knows who Batman is; therefore, Joker hates him because he's a threat to ruin all of Joker's "fun" by spilling the beans. On the other side of this Hugo would hate Joker for all of his troublesome chaos and discord in Arkham City. Hugo is absolutely obsessesed with Batman and through the trailer we have seen the lengths he is willing to go through to study/decode him. Problem here being, who knows Batman almost better than Batman himself? Joker. I'm sure Hugo will have had multiple sessions with Uncle J probably to no avail which only fuels his madness. Joker does like to screw with people
All of this comes down to the fact that it might be as simple as Hugo tried to kill Joker with poison out of anger and yet he survived, but for how long? dun dun dunnnnnn

Imagine if we have a mission to save Joker's life? Now that'd be interesting. Oh boy, I'd love to hear all the chatter Joker would give Batman if that were the case. It's happened before in the comics, so why not here?

[Clayface]

Well I was just pondering over everything and thought I would throw my suggestion in;

Strange mentions he is 'testing' Batman - could this be to do with Batman resisting Titan? Perhaps Strange is attempting to make intelligent Titan monsters. Although I'd be a bit dissapointed if this was the case. He does mention that 'soon we will be strong enough' to beat Batman.

Ah well who knows - it's all just speculation!

[martian1127]

Originally Posted by Clayface

Well I was just pondering over everything and thought I would throw my suggestion in;

Strange mentions he is 'testing' Batman - could this be to do with Batman resisting Titan? Perhaps Strange is attempting to make intelligent Titan monsters. Although I'd be a bit dissapointed if this was the case. He does mention that 'soon we will be strong enough' to beat Batman.

Ah well who knows - it's all just speculation!

I was also paying close attention to Strange's words. If he is testing Batman, then the story is going to be interested. It's probably a simple implied message. "How far is Batman willing to go, in order to save Oracle or Catwoman? Talia Al Ghul, must play a huge part in this.

Here is my speculation. Ras, Talia and Hugo Strange are all trying to crack Batman. They do this by kidnapping two people that he cares about the most. Those two people are Catwoman and Oracle. In the mix, Joker intervenes with Hugo's plans because Joker, would rather see Batman fall another way. In order to stop Hugo, Joker teams up with original villains, Penguin, Riddler, Mr. Freeze and a few others to stop Hugo from exposing Batman's true identity. Batman plays the odds by allowing Joker & friends to cause an extensive amount of damage; hoping that in the aftermath Hugo Strange will die. But along the way, Joker & friends do their usual and threaten innocent lives and Batman must also play the odds and fight them.

What side will Batman choose? Will he choose to allow Joker to cause havoc; which means playing on his side. Or will he stop Joker's plans for killing Hugo, which then allows Hugo to expose Batman's true identity. It becomes a tough choice between Hugo and Joker. Here is a small script I have made for this idea.

Joker: Bat's, me and you have had good times and bad times. But never in my life would I let someone spill the beans on who you really are. The only one that pulls the string to that curtain, is me.

Batman: I can see that, but there are lives at steak and I can't just let you kill people.

Joker: Well Bat's it all comes down to a matter of choice. My father always told me, "sometimes it's better to trust the bad guy that you know, rather than trusting the one that you don't know". And we both know that nobody loves you better than me.

Batman: Very touching, but I will not let my integrity run short. Even if it means, the whole world knowing who I am.

Joker: Have you gone mad? Hugo will expose you and your life would never be the same. Everything in your procession would be taken from you. Whoever it is you are, I can imagine that your loved ones would suffer even more than Oracle and Catwoman. Let those those two bite the dust; they both knew the risk. So what do you say, let me get a clean shot at Hugo. In the aftermath a few innocent people may die, but at least me and even more importantly YOU, would live to see another darkened day. But if you shut down my plans, both of us will get the city spotlight shined on us and our lives will be over. Use yoir brain, he wants to kill us both. For once, let good & evil unite and take down that which threatens our city.

Joker: Are you game or night?

[The Caped Crusader]

Originally Posted by martian1127

I was also paying close attention to Strange's words. If he is testing Batman, then the story is going to be interested. It's probably a simple implied message. "How far is Batman willing to go, in order to save Oracle or Catwoman? Talia Al Ghul, must play a huge part in this.

Here is my speculation. Ras, Talia and Hugo Strange are all trying to crack Batman. They do this by kidnapping two people that he cares about the most. Those two people are Catwoman and Oracle. In the mix, Joker intervenes with Hugo's plans because Joker, would rather see Batman fall another way. In order to stop Hugo, Joker teams up with original villains, Penguin, Riddler, Mr. Freeze and a few others to stop Hugo from exposing Batman's true identity. Batman plays the odds by allowing Joker & friends to cause an extensive amount of damage; hoping that in the aftermath Hugo Strange will die. But along the way, Joker & friends do their usual and threaten innocent lives and Batman must also play the odds and fight them.

What side will Batman choose? Will he choose to allow Joker to cause havoc; which means playing on his side. Or will he stop Joker's plans for killing Hugo, which then allows Hugo to expose Batman's true identity. It becomes a tough choice between Hugo and Joker. Here is a small script I have made for this idea.

Joker: Bat's, me and you have had good times and bad times. But never in my life would I let someone spill the beans on who you really are. The only one that pulls the string to that curtain, is me.

Batman: I can see that, but there are lives at steak and I can't just let you kill people.

Joker: Well Bat's it all comes down to a matter of choice. My father always told me, "sometimes it's better to trust the bad guy that you know, rather than trusting the one that you don't know". And we both know that nobody loves you better than me.

Batman: Very touching, but I will not let my integrity run short. Even if it means, the whole world knowing who I am.

Joker: Have you gone mad? Hugo will expose you and your life would never be the same. Everything in your procession would be taken from you. Whoever it is you are, I can imagine that your loved ones would suffer even more than Oracle and Catwoman. Let those those two bite the dust; they both knew the risk. So what do you say, let me get a clean shot at Hugo. In the aftermath a few innocent people may die, but at least me and even more importantly YOU, would live to see another darkened day. But if you shut down my plans, both of us will get the city spotlight shined on us and our lives will be over. Use yoir brain, he wants to kill us both. For once, let good & evil unite and take down that which threatens our city.

Joker: Are you game or night?

Nice, but Batman Doesn't really talk like that he would never say something like " i can see that" to the Joker.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I think The league of assassians and the Tyger mercs will team up eventually