new Tomb Raider 18+ - your thoughts

[dark7angel]

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

Imo, and i'd like to think many other people's opinions, the S word is just as vulgar as the F word. I was brought up not to swear as well but I just do when I hurt myself. I wouldn't go as far to say "I can't help it" because that would be a poor excuse but I just don't really think about it.

In Portuguese the s-word (which is actually m-word) is definitely not as vulgar as the f-word!!!

[LadyRufina]

Originally Posted by dark7angel

In Portuguese the s-word (which is actually m-word) is definitely not as vulgar as the f-word!!!

I know what it is in Italian and French so I know what it'll sound like in Portuguese or along the lines and it doesn't sound as vulgar as it sounds in English but in English I think most people think it just as vulgar as the F word.

[Driber]

Originally Posted by dark7angel

In Portuguese the s-word (which is actually m-word) is definitely not as vulgar as the f-word!!!

Same in Dutch. The f-bomb is definitely a different league than the s-word.

My 4 year old nephew said the s-word. We laughed.

Had he dropped the f-bomb, I don't think we would've found it funny.

From what I have gathered from English speaking people, f-bomb heavily outweighs the s-word. I feel the same when I speak English and use those.

[LARALOVERnr.1]

Originally Posted by Driber

This would actually be even less of a reason for a person like Lara to drop the f-bomb than when she would be impaled by a spike through her abdomen.

If we are going to see Lara dropping the f-bomb for simply disagreeing with someone, that would not only just disappoint me - like the scenarios discussed previously - but that would even upset me, because that would actually make her a low-class type of person

With this I agree, I wouldn't like to see Lara use a curse word directed to a fiendly character.

I wouldn't mind seeing her occasionally use it against a hostile one though. For example, later in the game, when she's fighting off baddies and all, when one gets too close, I wouldn't mind hearing her say 'Take this, a-hole!' when she's kicking him off of her (I find 'f-word-er' a bit to heavy for this situation).

Cursewords directed to herself/a painfull situation should definately be there IMO, as should be clear by now.

Originally Posted by Driber

I also don't find it offensive, either, and I use it myself, but that wasn't what EK's and my communication was about.

He claimed that it wasn't a swear word at all, which I found really striking because it is. A quick dictionary check proves this. Also TH provided sufficient evidence of this.

Whether EK himself or his fellow countrymen finds that particular phrase offensive, is a different thing.

In that case we share the same opinion, as long as you agree that it isn't a swearword in the f-bomb category.

Originally Posted by Driber

I don't think so. There are of course communities/groups in which everybody swears, but I think generally speaking, men are much more prone to use profanity than women. It's because they are naturally inclined to copy each other in order to "belong to the group" or to "appear tough".

Cursing works also as an emotional shield for guys. Women do not have this, or at least not as much as their male counterparts.

I can't really go to deep into this subject, since we're going into the human mind and social behavior here, of which I don't know that much, but what I do know is that woman express their emotions differently.
Whereas women will cry more often when they're upset, men will get angry, and thus be more likely to use swearwords.

But using swearing as a way to 'fit in' or shield yourself emotionally, I'm not so sure about that. That would mean that if one was to grow up surrounded by people who don't swear (often), one wouldn't swear either, since he/she would then 'fit in', thus supporting my theory about childhood and social contacts being connected to one's use of cursewords.

Originally Posted by Driber

lol, is it.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can PM me. I'm not going to introduce Dutch curse words onto this public forum

(And neither should you, BTW.)

I'm well aware of the meaning of the C-word, and I stick with my opinion on it.

I have been thinking though, and I reconsider my statement about the Dutch equivalent of the c-word not being used. It is indeed used in Dutch language as an insult, though I still don't take much offense from it.

Originally Posted by Driber

I agree. The Dutch equivalent is not exactly a nice word to say

Admittedly, it is being said often, including in the media a lot, so it may have lost its "strength" a bit, especially with the younger generation who pretty much grew up with it, but it still remains a swear word and I definitely wouldn't use it outside the privacy of my home or outside my peer group.

Like I said before, using words like that, even though they're mild cursewords, when around authority, superiors or strangers is out of the question, unless you would be having an argument (always wait for the other one to swear first though!).

And it is indeed used often, in the environment I grew up in anyway. I mostly use it to express my anger or emotion, also when I'm not thát angry, since I don't consider it to be a very offensive word.

Originally Posted by Driber

Hmm, I can name several examples from the top of my head of how to use that Dutch equivilant as a personal insult

But uhm....I think we should probably end the discussion of Dutch swearwords. They are not really relevant to this topic, since TR9 will not be dubbed in Dutch

I agree, Dutch swearwords are not relevant to the topic, unless they would be needed to explain an English swearword or something else relevant to the topic.

Originally Posted by Driber

Same in Dutch. The f-bomb is definitely a different league than the s-word.

My 4 year old nephew said the s-word. We laughed.

Had he dropped the f-bomb, I don't think we would've found it funny.

From what I have gathered from English speaking people, f-bomb heavily outweighs the s-word. I feel the same when I speak English and use those.

It certainly is, even though I tought that in America and the UK (even though less so in the UK), it is still considered offensive. It used to get bleeped out anyway.

I would still be upset if a 4-year old toddler would use it though O_o

[The Hylden]

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

@Chip5541: The man kept slaves and said that Native Americans are no better than 'dogs.' I don't think i'll take much advice from him.

Ugh, he never said that. He fully supported using Native Americans, that were on America's side, in the army. When fighting the French and Indian wars, of course, they were the enemy and that's the way it goes. No-one's going to trumpet the horn for the enemy that's slaughtering your men.


As for the slaves he kept: they and their families were all freed upon his death bed. Due to the fact that this was the culture back then, the best he could do was this.

Now, anything further regarding Washington, please take it to pm. We're not discussing his character here, or anything of the sort. This is the Tomb Raider forums, not the up and coming Assassin's Creed 3's forums.

Thanks.

[darksaiyan]

Heh, mods edited my coconut joke...

On the subject of violence, how much is too much? The atmosphere of this game suggests it can push it to quite the extreme (the horror undertone), but when does it go from frightening and realistic to a "gore flick"?

[a big house]

^ When Lara shoots a defenseless deer even though there are plenty of bugs she can go 'Bear Grylls' on... Oh, wait...

[Elliot Kane]

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

I agree with everything EK said so far. I hardly ever hear any British people I know say 'goddamn' anymore. I'd probably find it funny to hear a Brit say it but hear it all the time on American TV shows.

I'm basically the same age as Lara and have a Uni education and I swear all the time when I hurt myself. Not so much, if at all, in a normal conversation. I use 'Effing' more than any other adjective and adverb when in pain if i'm being brutally honest and I wouldn't say i'm a tomboy. I like to think i'm quite articulate seeing as I took a degree in English but if I walked into a door i'd just say "Ouch my F-ing head" or "Stupid F-ing door" without thinking. I also don't agree with this "way you've been brought up." I would get smacked if I swore in front of my parents which was hardly ever and like to think they brought me up to be a respectable person but I just swear now. I don't know why - I just do.

I'd say all that made you a totally typical young British woman today, Lady R. The which you're obviously better placed to judge than I am, of course, but still

***

The prevalent cultural attitude in 'Young Britain' right now is that swearing is just not a big deal (And please do not take this as either approval or disapproval: it is neither. It is observation, merely).

[LadyRufina]

Originally Posted by The Hylden

Ugh, he never said that. He fully supported using Native Americans, that were on America's side, in the army. When fighting the French and Indian wars, of course, they were the enemy and that's the way it goes. No-one's going to trumpet the horn for the enemy that's slaughtering your men.


As for the slaves he kept: they and their families were all freed upon his death bed. Due to the fact that this was the culture back then, the best he could do was this.

Now, anything further regarding Washington, please take it to pm. We're not discussing his character here, or anything of the sort. This is the Tomb Raider forums, not the up and coming Assassin's Creed 3's forums.

Thanks.

I have a lot to say to that but it's fine if you don't want your views on St. Washington challenged.

Originally Posted by darksaiyan

Heh, mods edited my coconut joke...

On the subject of violence, how much is too much? The atmosphere of this game suggests it can push it to quite the extreme (the horror undertone), but when does it go from frightening and realistic to a "gore flick"?

When it goes to gory I think it just becomes stupid, imo. Like most horror movies out there today, they all try to outdo themselves with gore but it's just not scary anymore. People have become completely desensitised to it. It's more of the jumpy factor that people go for, I think. I wouldn't want TR to be too gory.

Originally Posted by Elliot Kane

I'd say all that made you a totally typical young British woman today, Lady R. The which you're obviously better placed to judge than I am, of course, but still

***

The prevalent cultural attitude in 'Young Britain' right now is that swearing is just not a big deal (And please do not take this as either approval or disapproval: it is neither. It is observation, merely).

Yeah, It's not something to be proud of but it just isn't considered that bad now.

[darksaiyan]

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

When it goes to gory I think it just becomes stupid, imo. Like most horror movies out there today, they all try to outdo themselves with gore but it's just not scary anymore. People have become completely desensitised to it. It's more of the jumpy factor that people go for, I think. I wouldn't want TR to be too gory.

Horror movies are obviously overdone.

But how far is too far? I'd assume disembowelling is well beyond the scope of the violence, but what about, for example in the trailer,

impaling someone's throat with an arrow in close quarters combat, cutting apart the deer you just brought down,

or perhaps having to jam a knife in the eye of an assailant in a QTE?

Would these sort of things cause the player to put down the controller in disgust and want their money back? Or will the 18+ rating basically indicate "this is what you should have expected?"

[d1n0_xD]

^ I thought those scenes were pretty cool, and they're nothing compared to what this industry has to offer xD I think the actual deer cutting wasn't shown, you couldn't see her cutting the deer because the camera was behind the deer. I must say, an M-rating indicates that there can be blood and gore in the game, so it's not like you couldn't have known, that's what ratings are for! I think they can do whatever they want because they're shielded with the M-rating... Now, I don't know what's too much, but I bet the game would be a target for controversy if there's something over the top disturbing! But hey, there's the Saw games too xD So I don't know, but the stuff you mentioned, those are pretty basic in games today...

[Driber]

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

I have a lot to say to that but it's fine if you don't want your views on St. Washington challenged.

We know you have a lot to say and you are welcome to do so in a civilized manner and in the appropriate places.

Your jab at Chip's quote was out of place and your sarcasm quoted above is totally uncalled for.

I don't know what's eating you, but I hope that next time you can follow moderator instructions without the need for lip.

If you feel the need to negatively respond to this post as well, don't.

[LadyRufina]

Originally Posted by Driber

We know you have a lot to say and you are welcome to do so in a civilized manner and in the appropriate places.

Your jab at Chip's quote was out of place and your sarcasm quoted above is totally uncalled for.

I don't know what's eating you, but I hope that next time you can follow moderator instructions without the need for lip.

If you feel the need to negatively respond to this post as well, don't.

How was it a jab? If anything it was a light-hearted joke. And if you think this is a negative reply then I don't know what to say, tbh.

[Driber]

Originally Posted by a big house

^ That was one hell of a reply...

*takes a bow*

Here's another one

Originally Posted by Elliot Kane

Driber,

'Goddamn' is a swear word in America, likely to cause offence in America.

It is obsolete in many other parts of the world, including Britain, and not likely to cause offence there if it is even used.

If we can agree on that much, it'll do!

Nope, not good enough, sorry

First of all, it would be silly to blindly believe that you have an instant knowledge of how the word is perceived in a vast amount of countries that are not your own.

I'm gonna assume you just assume and that you didn't actually spent hours looking up statistics and research on this rather trivial matter

Secondly, I'm going to need far more proof that your personal stance is supposedly widespread in your country than just the opinions of you and our LadyR (who is known to categorically agree with 99% of what you say anyway ).

I think it's best to just agree to disagree, hehe.

Not just because a few opinions isn't going to proof anything (as TH indicated, we would need more opinions from British people for this to be conclusive), but more because it really doesn't matter all that much and this talk about "goddamn" is getting a bit long winded.

I'm sure neither of us would like to spend pages on discussing *one* of the *possible* swear words that Lara *might* just use in the new game

I was just shocked to hear you say that it wasn't a swear word at all and that got the ball rolling, lol. I know now that you meant that you yourself do not consider it as one and I also know that you realize that it IS considered a swear word by others.

So let's end with that

Originally Posted by Elliot Kane

(And yes, your heavy presence in this thread is indeed what made/makes it seem like an important issue to you. You've been replying to almost every post, which is usually a sign of high interest in anyone )

Well now you know for next time not to assume anything with me

Hehe, I like mature discussions (no pun intended ) AND I can discuss things into great depth without necessarily having a (big) personal stake in it

I can even discuss things from a POV opposite of my own.

In short, I'm not your straight-forward debater. Unless I specifically voice it, you cannot know for sure what my motives are or even which "side" I am on

Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1

I can't really go to deep into this subject, since we're going into the human mind and social behavior here, of which I don't know that much, but what I do know is that woman express their emotions differently.
Whereas women will cry more often when they're upset, men will get angry, and thus be more likely to use swearwords.

Yes, exactly my point. One of the reasons why men swear more than women.

Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1

But using swearing as a way to 'fit in' [...], I'm not so sure about that.

Are you kidding me? Have you never noticed in school that guys "casually" swear when they are in a group and talking about girls, drugs, games, TV, school exams, etc etc?

Or did you go to some private school where every bloke talks like that goody two-shoes Harry Potter!

Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1

But using swearing as a way to [...] shield yourself emotionally, I'm not so sure about that.

A common thing among men. Definitely more so with teenagers, due to their "awkward phases" lol, but also still much present in adult males.

An example: picture a typical teenage guy talking to his mates at school that he just had sex for the first time. He fancies the girl a lot, but he is not going to say that to his peers. Similarly, if the experience didn't go as he had hoped, he would not say that to his peers, either. Instead, he uses vulgar words like f and s and brags about how he "did her good" to hide his true emotions about the experience.

Generally speaking, guys are uncomfortable sharing their feelings. It embarrasses them. By acting tough and throwing in expletives into their sentences (well, a lot of times those expletives ARE the sentences ) it makes them feel less embarrassed.

Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1

In that case we share the same opinion, as long as you agree that it isn't a swearword in the f-bomb category.

Already said that it isn't

Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1

I'm well aware of the meaning of the C-word, and I stick with my opinion on it.

You misunderstood me, hehe. I was quoting you saying that the Dutch c-word (het "k-woord") isn't used in Holland. So I was saying that it IS used in Holland. And quite a lot, actually.

I then tried to say that if you don't know WHICH Dutch word I'm referring to, you can PM me.

It seems that you though I wanted to explain to you the meaning of the c-word

Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1

Like I said before, using words like that, even though they're mild cursewords, when around authority, superiors or strangers is out of the question, unless you would be having an argument (always wait for the other one to swear first though!).

I find that a very odd thing to say.

A person either swears in an argument or he doesn't, depending on his character and his level of emotion. Holding back with swearing and waiting for the other person to start and then joining him, seems like a weird moral advice :/

Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1

I would still be upset if a 4-year old toddler would use it though O_o

I suppose I should clarify, really. When I said that "we" laughed, I meant some of my family members laughed. I myself did find it odd to suddenly hear that word from a 4 year old and was surprised that those family members didn't view it as an unwanted thing.

Originally Posted by darksaiyan

Heh, mods edited my coconut joke...

Rightly so

We're here purposely trying to avoid the c-word, and you were pretty much spelling it out to the members. In fact, forget about the "pretty much" part

Originally Posted by darksaiyan

On the subject of violence, how much is too much? The atmosphere of this game suggests it can push it to quite the extreme (the horror undertone), but when does it go from frightening and realistic to a "gore flick"?

I myself have no problem with gore, but we obviously wouldn't like TR9 to become a RE game, lol.

Originally Posted by The Hylden

I hate it when in a discussion about how profanity has increased and what that means in society, inevitably the "it's/they is/are just [a] word/words." argument comes along. Yes, words change their meaning over time, and yes, they will probably change again centuries from now. However, the words we choose to use now have the meaning and context of now and that's what's important. Words are vital. They're everything. They're how we describe and record our very thoughts and ideas, and how we've been able to preserve them throughout history. If words meant nothing, then everything we are means nothing, and we should just talk, or type in nothing but nonsense form now on.

In fact: rereeregoherfkrn knerkenr khrekrhefvvhggsufgugr.

Since it means nothing, right? A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say. A thousand words can describe one moment in time. Contrarily, a book of words can recount literally lifetimes, and all of the knowledge, morals, and ideas of us all.

The next time you say they're just words, you should really think on what the repercussions of if that were true would be.

Absolutely agree. Hearing/seeing those "it's all just words" phrases every time in these discussions I've never really understood. Whoever says that, I'd like to see them stay perfectly cool when a random guy walks up to them on the street and starts to shout the most profane insults at them.

Or what about if you walk into a bar with your GF/wife and some douchebag calls her a skank or worse. Would you do nothing and just say to your partner "it's all just words, dear"?

Marriages fall apart because of words. Family members stop seeing each other for life because of words. People get stabbed because of words. Hell, even full blown wars start because of words.

Words matter.

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

Yeah, It's not something to be proud of but it just isn't considered that bad now.

Speak for yourself.

If everyone would be fine with people swearing, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

[LadyRufina]

Originally Posted by Driber

Speak for yourself.

If everyone would be fine with people swearing, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

I'm speaking on behalf of a generation and nation I live in. You seem to be speaking on behalf of Humanity. I was replying to EK's comment on my typicality of a Brit girl at my age. I just don't see it as something to get so worked up about with - as do 99% of girls my age from Britain that I know. I don't know how it is in any other nation, that's why I didn't speak on behalf of any of them.

I wouldn't just divide it that girls cry and let out their emotions and boys swear to shield their emotions. Especially with my generation. I hardly ever cry and let out my emotions, that's just the kind of person I am. My little brother, however, is quite sensitive and isn't afraid to let out his emotions. I'm not just narrowing it down to me and my brother but that's just one example.

[Driber]

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

How was it a jab? If anything it was a light-hearted joke. And if you think this is a negative reply then I don't know what to say, tbh.

Not negative, no, but I'm not engaging into a discussion about this here, either. If you genuinely do not understand what was wrong with your posts, you can reach the staff for clarification via PM.

Originally Posted by LadyRufina

I'm speaking on behalf of a generation and nation I live in. You seem to be speaking on behalf of Humanity. I was replying to EK's comment on my typicality of a Brit girl at my age. I just don't see it as something to get so worked up about with - as do 99% of girls my age from Britain that I know. I don't know how it is in any other nation, that's why I didn't speak on behalf of any of them.

I wouldn't just divide it that girls cry and let out their emotions and boys swear to shield their emotions. Especially with my generation. I hardly ever cry and let out my emotions, that's just the kind of person I am. My little brother, however, is quite sensitive and isn't afraid to let out his emotions. I'm not just narrowing it down to me and my brother but that's just one example.

I don't think it's so much of a generation thing, but more of an age thing. Perhaps in 50 years, you may be displeased with the kind of foul language the younger generation of that time and will be looking back at the good old days when we were still saying innocent things like the f-bomb

Hmm, I don't think I've mentioned crying girls. So I guess you are not directing that at me. I don't think girls break down and cry everytime they are emotional, but they certainly do not seem to "need" profanity to shield their emotions as much as guys.

Hell, it might be totally different in the UK, but in both countries I've lived, plus countless of American documentaries I've seen clearly proof that men definitely need an emotion shield in the form of cursing

[Elliot Kane]

Originally Posted by Driber

I think it's best to just agree to disagree, hehe.

Good grief! Act like civilised, mature, adults?!? What on Earth would people think?!?

But yeah, you're right, of course. All opinions are equal, and all that. Truth to tell, I was hoping more Brits would pitch in to agree (Or disagree) with me. Lady R & I can hardly form a quorum on our own.

Was going to suggest agreeing to disagree this time myself, in fact

Not just because a few opinions isn't going to proof anything (as TH indicated, we would need more opinions from British people for this to be conclusive), but more because it really doesn't matter all that much and this talk about "goddamn" is getting a bit long winded.

And circular. Circular being pointless, no more need be said.

I'm sure neither of us would like to spend pages on discussing *one* of the *possible* swear words that Lara *might* just use in the new game

Only if it could be kept interesting. But I think we've about hit the buffers.

I was just shocked to hear you say that it wasn't a swear word at all and that got the ball rolling, lol. I know now that you meant that you yourself do not consider it as one and I also know that you realize that it IS considered a swear word by others.

Pretty much, yeah. My American friends would doubtless be shocked at my saying it's not a swear word, but swearing is about where and when you are. It's entirely cultural & linguistic - as is proven by no forum I know of ever censoring British swearwords when their American counterparts are almost always censored. As for bothering to censor non-English swear words of ANY kind - not a hope!

So let's end with that

Indeed

Well now you know for next time not to assume anything with me

Well, I normally assume you're a smart person, Driber. You haven't disappointed me on that, so far!

Hehe, I like mature discussions (no pun intended ) AND I can discuss things into great depth without necessarily having a (big) personal stake in it

Darn. You sound like me. I'm not sure if that's good or bad...

I can even discuss things from a POV opposite of my own.

Only way to truly know your side of a thing is to understand the other side(s) too...

In short, I'm not your straight-forward debater. Unless I specifically voice it, you cannot know for sure what my motives are or even which "side" I am on

Well, I have to admit I do tend to aim at nailing my colours firmly to the mast. Unfortunately, I do seem to miss sometimes! My perspectives can be kinda unique, which can be confusing for people who are not either me or those who are very used to me.

[Yaphy]

I find it strange to discuss how grave a word is when you even try to hide the word you discuss. It's a very arbitrary rule made up by society. Is the world less offensive because you leave out a few letters? We all know what word you meant to say when you shorten it up and it isn't really helping in any way. I'd say that that the context is the most important thing. If you are discussing the word itself then you are not putting any weight behind it. You are just talking about it in a highly objective manner. But as long as the forum rules are as they are I guess that it's not much to do about it.

I would also like to add that profanity can differ very much from country to country. I live in Sweden and as such think that it is rather ironic to see that Swedish profanity is almost entirely religious words. I never use profanity as I think it doesn't add anything and the swedes that often use profanity in the daily speech are those that are linguistically challenged. It limits the vocabulary if the only way for you to highly express something is to put profanity in each and every sentence.

I do not really care for the English profanity since I didn't grow up with it. It doesn't affect me at all and I think that some of them are really silly. So I wouldn't really care if they put profanity in the game. It doesn't affect me the slightest.

The question about the Tomb Raider rating on the other hand is for me more about the violence. Yet again I have to wonder how the rules are made up. If you see blood then you make the game have a higher rating? That is stupid. It can be violent without blood. It's just a very fatuous rule. Same thing about "cartoon violence" and such matter. I think that a game that has the player kill another human being would make it rate higher. If it's just a one time thing, or the reasons behind it follows some kind of logic as in the first Tomb Raider game then it would be different. But just mindlessly killing thugs for killings sake is not something I enjoy in video games. I would hate for Tomb Raider to go down that well, as so many other games have.
A game can be for adults without being violent and all those other stuff that marks 18+ rated games. I often say that it's actually the opposite. If a game developer can make a serious and mature game without utilizing those elements then it's a sign of great developers. Saying that they are making a game for adults and then make a mindless slaughter game is taking the easy way. It wont even matter since most kids will still play it and think they are so mature because they can handle the intense violence. That is not what makes a game mature. I really hope that Eidos understand that. But as of now; what I saw from the short pieces of gameplay is not making me see their grand vision. If the game is what it looked like from that third-person-shooter-gameplay it will not be for me.

[Driber]

Originally Posted by Yaphy

Is the world less offensive because you leave out a few letters? We all know what word you meant to say when you shorten it up and it isn't really helping in any way.

I know what method you are referring to, but I'm not sure why you mention this here or who you are directing it to

Originally Posted by Yaphy

If you are discussing the word itself then you are not putting any weight behind it. You are just talking about it in a highly objective manner. But as long as the forum rules are as they are I guess that it's not much to do about it.

I acknowledge the "objective manner" part. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to do it like that. There's no way in hell people would follow a hypothetical mod instruction "You can write the f-bomb in full in a descriptive and objective way in thread X, but not as a curse in thread Y"

Plus, the censor is covering the whole of EF, not this just particular topic.

Originally Posted by Yaphy

The question about the Tomb Raider rating on the other hand is for me more about the violence. Yet again I have to wonder how the rules are made up. If you see blood then you make the game have a higher rating? That is stupid.

I don't think so. Blood is scary to children. Even to some adults. The ratings are there to protect children. I'm sure you'll agree that parents shouldn't let their 6 year old child watch all those bloody scenes from Nightmare on Elmstreet.

I remember I watched a series about Frankenstein was I was very young and in one episode the monster cut his toe off and he was bleeding to death. That scene with all the blood pouring out of his body and him slowly seeping into unconsciousness gave me nightmares! It wouldn't have been half as scary they didn't show the actual blood.



Now, if you want to talk skewed rating of sex vs. violence....

[a big house]

*Applauds*

I love waking up and reading the next part of this 'discussion' :L

[Yaphy]

Originally Posted by Driber

I know what method you are referring to, but I'm not sure why you mention this here or who you are directing it to

Well, I didn't really direct it towards anyone. Many people used it that way and I didn't want to point fingers at anyone.

Originally Posted by Driber

I acknowledge the "objective manner" part. Unfortunately, not everyone is able to do it like that. There's no way in hell people would follow a hypothetical mod instruction "You can write the f-bomb in full in a descriptive and objective way in thread X, but not as a curse in thread Y"

Plus, the censor is covering the whole of EF, not this just particular topic.

You are correct. Rules cannot me that flexible without being gray. But it just looks so funny. I am surprised though about you being able to write "hell". Isn't that a curse word? It is in swedish. Unless you say ´the hell´.

Originally Posted by Driber

I don't think so. Blood is scary to children. Even to some adults. The ratings are there to protect children. I'm sure you'll agree that parents shouldn't let their 6 year old child watch all those bloody scenes from Nightmare on Elmstreet.

That is strange because I don't remember anything being more scary because of blood when I was younger. I do remember playing Tony Hawks Pro Skater and the ridiculous blood in there. When you fall and glide across the pavement leaving a trail of blood. It's laughable and always was. Gore is another thing though. It's a combination of stuff that makes it. If the Tony Hawk games showed a leg being broken and twisted with an open wound and a bone sticking out then it would certainly be another thing. Especially if it's combined with screaming and things like that. It's a whole package of things that make it scary.

Originally Posted by Driber

I remember I watched a series about Frankenstein was I was very young and in one episode the monster cut his toe off and he was bleeding to death. That scene with all the blood pouring out of his body and him slowly seeping into unconsciousness gave me nightmares! It wouldn't have been half as scary they didn't show the actual blood.

It wouldn't be so scary if he didn't cut his toe of.

Originally Posted by Driber

Now, if you want to talk skewed rating of sex vs. violence....

Oh, you.
You seem quite liberal when it comes to sex.

[Driber]

Originally Posted by Yaphy

Well, I didn't really direct it towards anyone. Many people used it that way and I didn't want to point fingers at anyone.

You mean in this thread or in general?

Either way, yeah I agree, it's silly. It doesn't make it "lighter". In fact, it actually makes our jobs harder because it's effectively circumventing our auto censor, creating more work for the forum staff.

Originally Posted by Yaphy

I am surprised though about you being able to write "hell". Isn't that a curse word? It is in swedish. Unless you say ´the hell´.

Hell is a curse word, yeah. But a very mild one. It's not heavy enough like the s-word or f-bomb that we actively censor it.

Personally speaking, I really don't get why it is considered a curse word in the first place, as it's a correct term describing the opposite of heaven.

You don't see anyone being upset by someone saying "That icecream tasted heavenly good."

Originally Posted by Yaphy

That is strange because I don't remember anything being more scary because of blood when I was younger. I do remember playing Tony Hawks Pro Skater and the ridiculous blood in there. When you fall and glide across the pavement leaving a trail of blood. It's laughable and always was. Gore is another thing though. It's a combination of stuff that makes it. If the Tony Hawk games showed a leg being broken and twisted with an open wound and a bone sticking out then it would certainly be another thing. Especially if it's combined with screaming and things like that. It's a whole package of things that make it scary.

Agreed, it's a whole package. And blood being part of that package.

Of course blood on its own is not really scary. I wouldn't expect a 6 year old freaking out over some drips of blood on the street. But if the blood is coming pouring out of a wound from a man laying unconscious on the street after being hit by a car, I'll guarantee that the kid will be scared. More scared than when that guy would be just laying on the street without the blood.

Originally Posted by Yaphy

Oh, you.
You seem quite liberal when it comes to sex.

I personally am, yes. Mainly because I'm Dutch, I guess. Holland is a quite liberal country. We don't make a big deal about sex. We don't censor f-bombs and c-words on national television. We have nude beaches (which I and said person have been to, ourselves) and prostitution is legal.

But I think also being in a long term relationship with a free spirited person has made me more liberal than I already was, hehe.

[adobeARTIST]

If any of you follow Angry Joe's youtube show on reviews and gaming discussions (and if you don't you really should) he's doing his end of the year wrap up that typically includes top 10 lists for best and worst of the year.

But this year he made a list of the 10 biggest controversies in 2012. And wouldn't ya know it, the Crossroads trailer starts out in the number 10 position. Actually it's that along with Hitman Absolution sexual themes like the latex nuns. I guess he categorized both as part of SquareEnix marketing.



And he's really right about this. It's not even the scene itself, which is a pivotal moment in Lara's character development. It's the way SE dropped the ball with the PR surrounding it when they made the statement about how the scene was meant to invoke feelings in players that "Lara needs to be protected". That in itself caused outrage in the negative stereotypes of women being "helpless damsels in distress" that need rescuing.

What a missed opportunity here. They had the chance to promote the game as the central arc for Lara's character growth. What they should have said was something more like, "Yes, this is a disturbing scene, but it's a pivotal one as well. It's just one of many trials that push Lara to grow, as she learns not only to defend herself, but comes to discover her true potential as an adventurer and as a person".

By contrast the Hitman scenes provide no explanation for context for these sexualized nuns, whereas there's plenty of context behind Lara's ordeals.

And for those who want to see the full list in the video:

10. Tomb raider "rape"/hitman "nun" marketing
9. Diablo "error 37"
8. War Z scandal
7. Bayonetta 2 wii exclusive
6. Capcom Dlc Saga
5. "38 Studios"
4. Sega Copyright Claims(This one is really bizarre)
3. Doritogate & gaming journalism
2. Mass Effect 3 ending
1. Arma 2 dev imprisonment

[Valenka]

I watched that video yesterday, by coincidence, and I laughed. It's ridiculous. There are "rape" scenes in films and books and no one says a word, but when it's in a video game, suddenly it's WW3.

Originally Posted by adobeARTIST

By contrast the Hitman scenes provide no explanation for context for these sexualized nuns, whereas there's plenty of context behind Lara's ordeals.

That's not true, actually. There is explanation for the nuns' attire and behaviour if you pay attention during the Attack of the Saints mission.

[Driber]

Originally Posted by adobeARTIST

By contrast the Hitman scenes provide no explanation for context for these sexualized nuns, whereas there's plenty of context behind Lara's ordeals.

Did you play the entire H:A game or are you quoting what others said about it?