Fear - Page 3

Pinky_Powers · #51 09-22-2010, 07:27 PM

So many posts... each so long!

Forgive me if it's already been pointed out, but in regard to the Bosses:

Blade-Hunter is right, Dugas has made it clear Bosses have to be killed or "fought". But Dugas has made it equally clear that players who build a Stealth Character will not be screwed in these encounters.

Irate Iguana · #52 09-22-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singularity

Unique characters require unique encounters, because when I look back at the video games I've played, characters like Gunther are nothing but a couple of funny one-liners about orange soda, where as characters like Sniper Wolf I'll remember forever.

Funny. I remember Gunther not only for his funny one-liners but for his problem with coming to terms with what he really is. Sniper Wolf on the other hand was nothing more than a ridiculous bit of cleavage.

rubiomhs · #53 09-22-2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irate Iguana

Funny. I remember Gunther not only for his funny one-liners but for his problem with coming to terms with what he really is. Sniper Wolf on the other hand was nothing more than a ridiculous bit of cleavage.

they're both superficial comic-book characters with zero character development. oh and sniper wolf definitely was designed with the typical teenage gamer in mind. same design philosophy behind federova, really.

Mindmute · #54 09-23-2010, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubiomhs

they're both superficial comic-book characters with zero character development. oh and sniper wolf definitely was designed with the typical teenage gamer in mind. same design philosophy behind federova, really.

Zero character development?

If you read the emails you could get hints of his struggle with accepting that his augmentations are final and that he seems to be having second thoughts about them and his place in the world (it is widely accepted that the email on Jaime's newsletter was Gunther's).
It's quite clear to see his admiration (or more) for Navarre, dislike and mistrust for Paul, feeling of inedequacy after being captured (even Denton comments on how he's been basically relegated to peace-keeping missions) and it's not hard to panthom a backstory to all that.

You even get a piece of character progression troughtout the game from him, with his change of heart and single-minded desire to avenge Navarre leading him into craving further augmentation and tune-ups (comment from Simons) in order to be sure that he can "lay her spirit to rest by making her killers pay".

Honestly, Gunther has more depth than some bioware characters, he just doesn't unrealisticly tell you his life's story like those...

xaduha · #55 09-23-2010, 04:09 AM

If someone missed this
Laputan Machine
Flatlander Woman

rubiomhs · #56 09-23-2010, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindmute

Zero character development?

If you read the emails you could get hints of his struggle with accepting that his augmentations are final and that he seems to be having second thoughts about them and his place in the world (it is widely accepted that the email on Jaime's newsletter was Gunther's).
It's quite clear to see his admiration (or more) for Navarre, dislike and mistrust for Paul, feeling of inedequacy after being captured (even Denton comments on how he's been basically relegated to peace-keeping missions) and it's not hard to panthom a backstory to all that.

You even get a piece of character progression troughtout the game from him, with his change of heart and single-minded desire to avenge Navarre leading him into craving further augmentation and tune-ups (comment from Simons) in order to be sure that he can "lay her spirit to rest by making her killers pay".

Honestly, Gunther has more depth than some bioware characters, he just doesn't unrealisticly tell you his life's story like those...

he's ok for those reasons you stated, but ultimately kind of a cardboard cutout, genric upstart kind of character. eager to please. we've all seen this kind of character and it is exactly what it is, comic book stuff.

agreed with the hilariously bad bioware character dialog.

singularity · #57 09-23-2010, 02:32 PM

Yeah - as soon as I typed "Sniper Wolf" I knew the references to her cleavage were comming. Sticking with MGS as a model, Solidus Snake, The Boss and Big Boss would be much more suitable characters for my "example".

As for Gunther coming to terms with who he really is, etc -- I can see where you get that, but I never FELT that... it was nothing more than a few lines of dialogue and an email or two. Sure, we know he might like Anna, he might regret his augmentations and he has feelings of inadequacy. If it takes an entire game to develop those few simple traits in a character, the character is a failure as far as I'm concerned... I can walk up to perfect strangers and tell you more about them than that in only 15 minute's time. If they're in a supporting role for 20+ hours... and then I have to kill them... I'm expecting to remember them.

AxiomaticBadger · #58 09-23-2010, 02:59 PM

I'm hoping that there'll be properly constructed environmental details we can use to kill the bosses, like hackable turrets or explosive crates, or some other way to kill them indirectly.

pringlepower · #59 09-23-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singularity

Yeah - as soon as I typed "Sniper Wolf" I knew the references to her cleavage were comming. Sticking with MGS as a model, Solidus Snake, The Boss and Big Boss would be much more suitable characters for my "example".

As for Gunther coming to terms with who he really is, etc -- I can see where you get that, but I never FELT that... it was nothing more than a few lines of dialogue and an email or two. Sure, we know he might like Anna, he might regret his augmentations and he has feelings of inadequacy. If it takes an entire game to develop those few simple traits in a character, the character is a failure as far as I'm concerned... I can walk up to perfect strangers and tell you more about them than that in only 15 minute's time. If they're in a supporting role for 20+ hours... and then I have to kill them... I'm expecting to remember them.

As soon as I heard the name Solid Snake, I immediately thought of an erection. How could they get away with giving him that name?

TrickyVein · #60 09-23-2010, 06:14 PM

Hehehheeeeheheee ehehe ha

Shralla · #61 09-23-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubiomhs

they're both superficial comic-book characters with zero character development. oh and sniper wolf definitely was designed with the typical teenage gamer in mind. same design philosophy behind federova, really.

Wait, so you're really going to tell me that this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...a/Fedorova.jpg

Is in any way comparable to this: http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1844/csknipatu1.jpg

I mean... REALLY?

AlexOfSpades · #62 09-24-2010, 03:26 AM

Fedorova is original. I've never seen anything like her.

She's not your regular femme fatale. She's a freak.

Boring typical teenager characters:

Trish and Lady from Devil May Cry (They're walking-boobs)

Lara Croft (She's hollow.)

Navarre was damn original and Fedorova looks original too.

I mean.

She's a black girl with half-shaved head, cyber legs and renascense-styled shirt. No cleavage, no short jeans. No bouncing boobs.

Pinky_Powers · #63 09-24-2010, 03:42 AM

^... Well said! That's just my take on it, as well.

I had written out a replay to rubiomhs that was a solid mix between your's and Shralla's, but I don't know what happened to it. It's like it was deleted. More than likely, I had hit "Preview Post" to examine it and proof-read it properly, and then closed the tab without releasing I never submitted the damn thing... That's happened more than once.

TrickyVein · #64 09-24-2010, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexOfSpades

Lara Croft (She's hollow.)

You might just make it on to my ignore-list after all. I feel that I have a duty, however, to defend Lady Croft. You know, some of us were around when Tomb Raider first came out.

Part killer, part scholar, possessing that type of class which can only belong to the English aristocracy, trumping whatever base, pedestrian mannerisms you or I may have; she has money, and power, and is truly one of the most "endearing figures of our times."

And you expect to be heard, throwing out this baseless accusation. There are bigger fish to fry, after all.

AlexOfSpades · #65 09-24-2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrickyVein

You might just make it on to my ignore-list after all. I feel that I have a duty, however, to defend Lady Croft. You know, some of us were around when Tomb Raider first came out.

Part killer, part scholar, possessing that type of class which can only belong to the English aristocracy, trumping whatever base, pedestrian mannerisms you or I may have; she has money, and power, and is truly one of the most "endearing figures of our times."

And you expect to be heard, throwing out this baseless accusation. There are bigger fish to fry, after all.

I was around when Tomb Raider first came out.

It is just my little humble opinion that her behaviour or mannerism doesnt make her a deep character. I must admit that i'm not an expert into Tomb Raider story. Maybe i'm wrong, and you're right.

But from what i can see, she seems to be just the stereotypical adventurer chick.

TrickyVein · #66 09-24-2010, 08:15 AM

One of the first adventure chicks in gaming. That resonates with many people, I think.

Ilves · #67 09-24-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexOfSpades

But from what i can see, she seems to be just the stereotypical adventurer chick.

Of course Lara Croft's initial success hinged on her black swan quality, as Tricky points out. But I'd like to add that she's been steadily degenerating into uninspired stereotype/caricature ever since the first 3 games. Writing's gone downhill like there's no tomorrow.

Related: A lot's been said on these boards about letting your wallet do the talking, case in point Tomb Raider Underworld... Apparently sales were poor enough to force Crystal Dynamics to try out something completely different, resulting in the latest downloadable Guardian of whatsit, with a total departure from the classical gameplay. I'm still not interested, and I still dislike Crystal Dynamics handling of the IP as a whole, but it may be an example of a franchise being forced to reinvent itself when the market gives it the cold shoulder. /wishful thinking

lithos · #68 09-24-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilves

Of course Lara Croft's initial success hinges on her black swan quality, as Tricky points out. But I'd like to add that she's been steadily degenerating into uninspired stereotype/caricature ever since the first 3 games. Writing's gone downhill like there's no tomorrow.

The industry's grown up...

Quote:

Related: A lot's been said on these boards about letting your wallet do the talking, case in point Tomb Raider Underworld... Apparently sales were poor enough to force Crystal Dynamics to try out something completely different, resulting in the latest downloadable Guardian of whatsit, with a total departure from the classical gameplay. I'm still not interested, and I still dislike Crystal Dynamics handling of the IP as a whole

Who needs talent when you got IP?

rubiomhs · #69 09-24-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexOfSpades

Fedorova is original. I've never seen anything like her.

She's not your regular femme fatale. She's a freak.

Boring typical teenager characters:

Trish and Lady from Devil May Cry (They're walking-boobs)

Lara Croft (She's hollow.)

Navarre was damn original and Fedorova looks original too.

I mean.

She's a black girl with half-shaved head, cyber legs and renascense-styled shirt. No cleavage, no short jeans. No bouncing boobs.

the trailer showed a cutscene featuring an slow pan up from her rear. later on she's taking, presumable sexual pleasure(with her tongue sticking out), from killing a bunch of rioters. this character is a walking cliche.

Ilves · #70 09-24-2010, 12:08 PM

@ Lithos: There's tons of true talent & craftmanship in the industry, that's not the problem. It's the lack of guts. Then again, a bubblegum formula franchise like Tomb Raider doesn't need guts, just inspired fun.

Uncharted filled the void for a while, but then felt compelled to expand its playing field by reaching out to a certain demographic with its introduction of military imagery & war torn cities, among other things.