So I guess killing kids is pretty much off the menu this time...

[Malah]

Has anyone here tried to play Rapelay? I couldn't get it to run so I gave up.
I have tried a game where you can rape women, but the controls were not very intuitive and the feedback was too much
+ I had a baaad cough the day after because it rained through the night.

[Angel-A]

Originally Posted by Ceri

Yeah! Men are where it's at!

Originally Posted by Malah

Has anyone here tried to play Rapelay? I couldn't get it to run so I gave up.
I have tried a game where you can rape women, but the controls were not very intuitive and the feedback was too much
+ I had a baaad cough the day after because it rained through the night.

[3nails4you]

That is now my favorite picture, nay, my favorite anything, of all time.

[Angel-A]

Much good I have done much good.

[IOOI]

Ha ha, cool pic. Any DX fan would feel very ashamed if JC and Paul gave him a facepalm.

[Pinky_Powers]

Originally Posted by IOOI

Ha ha, cool pic. Any DX fan would feel very ashamed if JC and Paul gave him a facepalm.

They do that to me all the time when I'm playing.

My plans don't always go as I intended, and the Denton family suffers for it.

[ArcR]

Thank you Angel A

[pringlepower]

Originally Posted by Malah

Has anyone here tried to play Rapelay? I couldn't get it to run so I gave up.
I have tried a game where you can rape women, but the controls were not very intuitive and the feedback was too much
+ I had a baaad cough the day after because it rained through the night.

was there contextual third -person?

[Malah]

Originally Posted by pringlepower

was there contextual third -person?

No, first person and as true to life as can be. Like I said: the feedback was VERY real - I had bruises all over my body from where she kicked me ... khm.. that is, umm.. yeah.. never mind.

[TekFan]

So it's about freedom for most of you guys?

I don't get the point in "option to kill kids=freedom".

I try to take another terrible example of violence: Would it be freedom, to fly a hovering passenger-vehicle in two big skyscrapers in a scifi-game?
Killing thousands of people who just work in offices or have a lunch-break.
Would you actually enjoy a game, that allows you something like this?
Complete with the terrible detail of people jumping out of the building to flee from the flames?

The option of rape was mentioned: This is pretty much the process of taking someones freedom of deciding having sex with another person and forcing the first person.
So the option of rape in a game would be the imbodyment of the fantasy of taking someone else's freedom.

I'm not saying violence is a no-go for games and everything should be reduced to the level of "Mario Kart", but I think, there are some things that shouldn't be implemented.
Shooting a soldier/mercenary for example is acceptable in my oppinion.
You wonder why?
Choosing this path (being a soldier/mercenary) means, the "virtual person" has taken the decision and accepted the risk of being shot/killed.
You may think that's all about artistic concept, but I think there is a difference between the picture of an armed person shooting at the player, and an innocent child.

[JackShandy]

Originally Posted by TekFan

So it's about freedom for most of you guys?

I don't get the point in "option to kill kids=freedom".

I try to take another terrible example of violence: Would it be freedom, to fly a hovering passenger-vehicle in two big skyscrapers in a scifi-game?
Killing thousands of people who just work in offices or have a lunch-break.
Would you actually enjoy a game, that allows you something like this?
Complete with the terrible detail of people jumping out of the building to flee from the flames?

Just Cause 2 did allow you to fly planes into buildings, complete with giant explosions... was applauded for it's freedom...

Everyone gets up in arms whenever video games show the player killing in things in some particularly bad way. Fact is, video games are violent and terrible things that routinely show the player commiting mass genocide. This is true whether the object of his rage is a bunch of angry thugs, people of a particular race, children, a russian airport, the twin towers, whatever.

Killing kids in a game means absolutely nothing in the real world. They're a bunch of lines of code. That's all.

What means something is how you react to that. If you cheer and pump your fist at every new infant fatality, that's pretty sick. And if a game encourages you to cheer and pump your fist like that, then- well, the game's pretty messed up. If, on the other hand, you hate killing children, if the game shows children dying as a horrible thing - well, I wouldn't have a moral objection to that. It's the way it treats it that matters.

Deus ex always allowed you to kill children, but it never, ever encouraged it in any way. Which is more than it did for the adults.

[Pinky_Powers]

Originally Posted by TekFan

I don't get the point in "option to kill kids=freedom".

That's because you're using the wrong word, and for some reason you're not able to see passed it.

Here, try this version out: The freedom to kill kids = freedom. Do you see it now?

And on your other silly examples...

As with everything in life, there are levels of acceptability. Your average player won't see rape as a conceivable character action, but an annoying child who threatens your delicate work... yeah, blowing him to tiny pieces with a LAM is not only acceptable, but morally wonderful.

[JCpie]

Originally Posted by Ceri

Yeah! Men are where it's at!

Yeah especially diseased men high on zyme.

[TekFan]

Originally Posted by Pinky_Powers

That's because you're using the wrong word, and for some reason you're not able to see passed it.

Here, try this version out: The freedom to kill kids = freedom. Do you see it now?

And on your other silly examples...

As with everything in life, there are levels of acceptability. Your average player won't see rape as a conceivable character action, but an annoying child who threatens your delicate work... yeah, blowing him to tiny pieces with a LAM is not only acceptable, but morally wonderful.

I assume, I'm talking to a child in puberty(or before it), since the description of blowing up a kid with an LAM "as morally wonderful" is quite the most immature thing I ever heard.
Not even as a joke it would be of importancy.
If you're not a child: I work for a psychatric institution, so I know what I'm saying...seriously...seek help and never have kids if that's what you think about them disturbing your work.

Declaring my examples as "silly" without even the most simple arguments shows another certain lack of sense in your post.

I accept JackShadys argument of seeing the whole thing as a line of code in a mathematical environment.
Although I think that a computer-game passes also as a piece of art, therefore it should be seen in more ways than just a simulation.

If you want the option to kill kids(I'm sticking to "option", since it's neutral instead of the more positive "freedom") then I suggest the following:
If you kill a kid in Deus Ex 3, Sarif Industries fires you, takes all your augmentations and you are put into the cell of a future-prison where you will wait until you die as an old, armless man.
For the game DEUS EX3 this should mean:
With five days hard-coded emulated life in a grey cell, where you can't load a savegame to play further. Alltogether with implemented functions in the game, that won't let you skip it by just rebooting your PC or console.
How about that?

[Pinky_Powers]

Originally Posted by TekFan

I assume, I'm talking to a child in puberty(or before it), since the description of blowing up a kid with an LAM "as morally wonderful" is quite the most immature thing I ever heard.
Not even as a joke it would be of importancy.
If you're not a child: I work for a psychatric institution, so I know what I'm saying...seriously...seek help and never have kids if that's what you think about them disturbing your work.

Declaring my examples as "silly" without even the most simple arguments shows another certain lack of sense in your post.

I can understand you being disgusted with me, but that's no reason to ignore parts of my post and then claim I didn't make a compelling argument.

Directly under my line about your "other silly examples" I go right into my reason for why your examples are "silly".

On a side note, I fully believe you do work in a loony bin, for you effortlessly spew all their most institutionalized dogma; this notion that anyone who thinks differently than you is in urgent need of meds and brainwashing professionals.

...morally wonderful. Philosophically splendid. Who's to say these aren't fine truths on grim topics? Some kids are simply better in multiple pieces.

[3nails4you]

Originally Posted by Pinky_Powers

...morally wonderful. Philosophically splendid. Who's to say these aren't fine truths on grim topics? Some kids are simply better in multiple pieces.

Woah. Definitely going to go with TekFan on this one. Wow.

[IOOI]

Originally Posted by TekFan

For the game DEUS EX3 this should mean:
With five days hard-coded emulated life in a grey cell, where you can't load a savegame to play further. Alltogether with implemented functions in the game, that won't let you skip it by just rebooting your PC or console.
How about that?

No, it would be better if there was an option to commit suicide or if there was some secret option like an attempt to jail break. Either way the player character already dies many times during the game and, just like the 'innocents' (including kids), he will be there again at the start of a new playing session. So after being killed many times he would be redeemed.

[rokstrombo]

Originally Posted by TekFan

The option of rape was mentioned: This is pretty much the process of taking someones freedom of deciding having sex with another person and forcing the first person.
So the option of rape in a game would be the imbodyment of the fantasy of taking someone else's freedom.

So the option of killing in a game would be the embodiment of the fantasy of taking someone else's life. Ahhh the "post-pubescent" way of looking at morality...

I'm not saying violence is a no-go for games and everything should be reduced to the level of "Mario Kart", but I think, there are some things that shouldn't be implemented.
Shooting a soldier/mercenary for example is acceptable in my oppinion.
You wonder why?
Choosing this path (being a soldier/mercenary) means, the "virtual person" has taken the decision and accepted the risk of being shot/killed.

But as the player, you have made the decision to put your character into situations where they will have no choice but to shoot these soldiers. What are your reasons for doing so?

You may think that's all about artistic concept, but I think there is a difference between the picture of an armed person shooting at the player, and an innocent child.

I agree that there is a difference, but no one is forcing you to return fire at either target (except the rules of the game, which you chose to play).

[Irate Iguana]

These debates are always the best. People get all morally outraged over killing kids and then go and play a game where they murder an entire town and dismember a great deal of enemy soldiers. People act like it matters whether you shoot a tall or a small NPC. They are all just NPC's in a game.

[3nails4you]

Originally Posted by Irate Iguana

These debates are always the best. People get all morally outraged over killing kids and then go and play a game where they murder an entire town and dismember a great deal of enemy soldiers. People act like it matters whether you shoot a tall or a small NPC. They are all just NPC's in a game.

What game are YOU playing?!

[Jerion]

Originally Posted by 3nails4you

What game are YOU playing?!

Call of Duty 4, from the sounds of it. Possibly Jedi Academy.

[ilweran]

Originally Posted by TekFan

I assume, I'm talking to a child in puberty(or before it), since the description of blowing up a kid with an LAM "as morally wonderful" is quite the most immature thing I ever heard.
Not even as a joke it would be of importancy.
If you're not a child: I work for a psychatric institution, so I know what I'm saying...seriously...seek help and never have kids if that's what you think about them disturbing your work.

The first time my mum played House of the Dead 2 she shot a child in the head and thought it was funny, yet she was a great mother, never raised her hand to me or my sister. She was also evil with a rocket launcher in Quake 3, despite not being able to use the Dreamcast controller very well, and had a lot of fun killing people with a tank in GTA3.

I don't think you can judge someones mental health or suitability to be a parent by whether they've ever killed a child in a game.

I shot the children in the Tarsus Academy in IW because a greasel killed a SSC guard and the rest of the guards decided it was MY fault. So I shot everyone Then because it's just a game and not real life I reloaded.

[Senka]

Originally Posted by Irate Iguana

These debates are always the best. People get all morally outraged over killing kids and then go and play a game where they murder an entire town and dismember a great deal of enemy soldiers. People act like it matters whether you shoot a tall or a small NPC. They are all just NPC's in a game.

This. Maybe when things get VERY realistic this should be argued, but not really now.

[Poison_Berrie]

I never saw it as a deal breaker.
Sure it's a nice bit of consistency, but I never understood people who got up in arms about it.

More than likely not being able to kill children ingame would come from a legal or executive department.

[JCpie]

Originally Posted by Mr. K

Call of Duty 4, from the sounds of it. Possibly Jedi Academy.

OH MY GOD! Jedi Academy is the single best starwars game I have ever played! (maybe aside from KOTOR)
A shame it broke ='( It's very realistic, with all the slash marks and their cut off limbs, not to mention they run to weapons to pick them up and all that cool shiz.

And I never finished it =( .... I got up to the bit where that annoying guy turns evil! heheheh.

And there's nothing wrong with killing kids in games. In my opinion, it's no different to killing a 'grown man', they're both AI, they're both in the game, they both don't exist.