So... Adam looks remarkably well. A little too well?

[InGroove2]

Originally Posted by Blade_hunter

Hey, I said I don't complain about animated augs guys, but in fact they could make something that look like what we see in DX 1 even if there arm machine guns, wrist blades and such things.
I never said to just allow the single aug we see active in DX.
I even said that wasn't normal that our bosses never shown their augs other than that, that's my point here.

[EDIT]Yay he have those, but unfortunately DX didn't show them enough. but I don't know if people understand the point I've been making here

right right. i hear ya. i was just making my point about this thread in general, not necessarily about you specifically. peace.

[Daedalus Ciarán]

Originally Posted by Kodaemon

Even if you ignore their augs, both Gunther and Anna look like goth leather fetishists. So, maybe they actually chose to look that creepy. I mean, look at the bartender in NY: she has similar style augs, but they don't look half as grotesque on her. The eyes may be a functional thing. Who knows, maybe Gunther and Anna's eyes offer different functionality over Adam's realistic one?

What's that rule that says that every 6 months technology/computers get twice as fast or half the size? How do we get from Adam's form fitting eye augmentation which provides targeting info, health info, weapon info on individuals, to Gunther and Anna's protruding eye augmentations? What do they get from having such huge augmentations that they couldn't get from the prototype (read basic and new) military augmentations available twenty-something years earlier? It would be like you using Windows 95, but 95 had all the features, and possibly more, of Windows 7. Why would you get Windows 7 under those circumstances?

Originally Posted by ChrisVCB

The only Aug I think I ever saw either of them use was Navarre and her cloak. I think she does that on the 747, shortly before you give her a good burst of flamethrower and she runs around screaming till she dies. Fact of the matter is, it doesn't look like the DX1 devs ever really thought mechanical augs through to thier logical conclusion; Most probably because the focus of the game was on nano augs, which had tons of detail poured in, instead. If they had more focus on the mechs, and more time to spend, i'm sure they'd have come up with similar conclusions to the DX3 team as to what you could possibly achieve with mechanical augmentation.

I don't think so. I mean, if you look at Barret or Adam in the trailer, and look at JC it seems pretty clear who would have the advantage in a combat situation. JC, when fully augmented, was powerful, with regenerating health, reinforced skin, targeting augmentations, EMP attacks etc, but it seems to me, that he was limited as well: RH was not complete or quick, augmentations did not impart skills such as martial arts, and his weapons were all external meaning he would have to carry equipment. Even with his melee strength JC could not break through walls or throw individuals across rooms.

Some of that may have to do with the ingame engine, sure, but if they did implement all of that into the mechanical augmentations of Gunther and Anna, it seems to me they would me the more impressive augmented agents and Gunther would never have to worry about sweeping his rusty metal bones into the corner. JC's augmentations, while more subtle socially and cosmetically, would never the less appear less impressive and weaker despite the supposed advanced nature of the nano technology.

[El_Bel]

Wait. He could pick up and throw a 2,5m(8 feet) long cube made of solid steel, but you think he could not throw a person across the room? He had so much strength and his skin and bones were so tough that could stop bullets, but he could not punch a wall and brake it?

[Daedalus Ciarán]

Originally Posted by El_Bel

Wait. He could pick up and throw a 2,5m(8 feet) long cube made of solid steel, but you think he could not throw a person across the room? He had so much strength and his skin and bones were so tough that could stop bullets, but he could not punch a wall and brake it?

Hmm, fair point.

[Flabdomen]

Remember this game takes place in the golden years before the fall.

Augmentations these days are not the nano augmentations of the original Deus Ex, but their production is still funded by a global economy that encourages the optimal operation of these DX:HR augmentations. Thus, they have great mechanical augs.

When nanotechnology begins to become popular in the years of Deus Ex, then you get the ugly combinations of nanotechnology and mechanical augmentations as in Gunther and Anna. They were heavily mechanically augmented, and the government inflicts nanotechnology onto them.

[demon boy]

I think the devs have taken artistic liberty with the design of the mechanical augs and I think they were right to do so. It adds to the level of realism. In order for mechanical augmentations to become desirable to people, they would probably have to look somewhat presentable. Consider it a mild form of retcon.

[minus0ne]

Aesthetics aside, I'm more bothered by augs like Claymore Multi-Kill, Assasin's Creed wrist-blades and whatever other stupid augs they've come up with, doubly so if they switch to 3rd person view upon use.

[Kohtalo]

I must say that I'm not too impressed by the way they've chosen to make these mech-augs look and function.

Some say DX had inferior mech-augs due to engine limitations, but I think the mech-augs were just like the developers wanted them to be.
I mean, these DX:HR mech-augs are way too techy to ever be a reality in twenty years (and so is the extra floor on top of Shanghai).

If you look at the original DX augmentations, you can easily see that they are much more plausible and cyberpunkish. They fit the theme and plot perfectly.

Gunther and Anna were probably badly injured in combat, and soon after took the offer to get augmented - this process reinforced their bodies and bones and even replaced damaged tissue and whole limbs! But these augmentations are mainly there to make them tougher, stronger and faster - not turn their bodies into weapons or Transformer-like animating structures. I mean Gunther was a force to be reckoned with, even without his arms having the functionality of turning into swiss-tool. If JC were ever to engage in hand-to-hand combat with Gunther, it's very probable that JC would literally rest in pieces.

Gunther has atleast his skull, eyes, arms and maybe even legs pretty heavily augmented - organic tissue and robotics co-existing in his body. Of course he might have his whole upper body reinforced to a degree (we don't get to see that under his heavy body armor). I'm sure those metallic robotic actuators in his arms gave Gunther superhuman strenght and durability, but the arms still had the same basic purpose that arms usually have :P

Beside thos replaced limbs and other fortifications, I'm sure Gunther had a lot of under the skin functionality, for example invisibility, targeting systems, forcefields, satellite linkup and probably a highly advanced form of his brain working linked to a computer prosessor. I'm just saying that these technologies can still be pretty far in the future, and are more likely to be available by the time DX took place rather than at the time of HR.

It's sad that the developers got too much into this technology stuff instead of making a true cyberpunkish world, with a world resembling the one we live in and in respect of the future technological advancements. The mechanical augmentations that Gunther and Anna had could have easily provided enough base to build a story on. For example, different varieties of prostethics: say metal, plastic, carbon-based -formulations with different functionalities depending on the person (military-civilian, poor-rich, basic-advanced, cheap-expensive and so on.) If most of the augs in HR are something close to what we see in the trailers, then we might miss some of the true story potential that even the original DX had.

[Badmaker]

what i want to see, is making Adam look almost like a cyborg, ljust like Hermann in DX1.
Maybe, if the augs are upgraded to the last level, they should look scary.
For example: the augmented eyes. If the player choose to upgrade them to last level, the eyes should look like Hermann or Anna's eyes. This idea will make DXHR a deep RPG. Some players may choose to augment their character very moderate, other may choose to get those scary augs.

[JackShandy]

I have to say, I think Adams augs look almost identical to a more-updated version of Anna Navarra's - Minus the impression that someone's surgically grafted a red headlight onto her left eye.

[Laokin]

I think it's clear that they look very sleek in the original DX. Anna looks like 7 of 9 from Star Trek with a full eye, and her arms are just as sleek as Adams, they are just like a blue metal instead of gloss black.

Gunther is the same too, except he has two eyes and a metal skull. What is big and bulky about his augs? I see him just being a big hulk of muscle, like a tall Vin Diesal, with two Anna Eyes a skull plate, only half metal arms.

As for the eyes, less borg more terminator IMO.


Definitely had no exposed wires or anything. His metal head isn't bulky either, it's rather exactly the same as his normal head, just SMOOTH metal in texture. Smooth is the key word here.

Where is this elusive bulk you speak of? His Chest? Probably isn't even augmented, he looks like a body builder with a future armor vest on. His legs again may just be like thigh armor pads, the metal is on the outside of his pants guys.

Also, they do not have weaponized augmentations, so therefore when it comes to weaponized augs, you have no base reference to compare them to.

I don't see it. I never saw it. DX:HR is right. I owned DX1 from launch day.

Furthermore, it's the notion that it's noticeable that causes the social rift. You see a guy with a glowing red machine eye, are you going to trust him? Better yet, a guy with a noticeable metal head and arms, would you with him?

No, because I would lose.... which makes this guy scary by default. Children are scared of normal humans too... lets not exaggerate here.

HR is being very true to the augmentations here, IMO. Not sure how I feel about the Icarus Gliding System's static electricity anti gravity though, that's the only one so far that has me like wtf.

And for the record, I'd gladly take a wtf looking aug over another wtf useless Aqualung any day. We know 10 of the 19 augs, there are still 9 left to cyborg him up anyway, chillout.

Also +10 for wallpunch being consolidated into the strength aug. It was originally listed as an aug it self, I think this is why people had beef with it to begin with, because if you can't use it all the time, it becomes a waste of a slot.

[MaxxQ1]

Originally Posted by Laokin

Anna looks like 40 of D from Star Trek with a full eye,

Fixed

[mr_cyberpunk]

Originally Posted by minus0ne

Aesthetics aside, I'm more bothered by augs like Claymore Multi-Kill, Assasin's Creed wrist-blades and whatever other stupid augs they've come up with, doubly so if they switch to 3rd person view upon use.

mm yeah I immediately sused on to that when we first saw the blade. I was like "I sure hope they're not doing what I think they're doing".. turns out they are.. sigh.

They should call it Deus Ex:Every game that isn't Deus Ex- and especially not IWar because that sucked TM.

In the end though I hope I'm wrong and that the first person elements really take us back to what we loved about Deus Ex 1. Else EM have totally missed the point.

[Laokin]

Originally Posted by MaxxQ1

Fixed

I stared at that comment for like 8 minutes before it finally made sense, what a bust!

[Daedalus Ciarán]

Originally Posted by Kohtalo

Some say DX had inferior mech-augs due to engine limitations, but I think the mech-augs were just like the developers wanted them to be.
I mean, these DX:HR mech-augs are way too techy to ever be a reality in twenty years (and so is the extra floor on top of Shanghai)...

Gunther and Anna were probably badly injured in combat, and soon after took the offer to get augmented - this process reinforced their bodies and bones and even replaced damaged tissue and whole limbs! But these augmentations are mainly there to make them tougher, stronger and faster - not turn their bodies into weapons or Transformer-like animating structures. I mean Gunther was a force to be reckoned with, even without his arms having the functionality of turning into swiss-tool. If JC were ever to engage in hand-to-hand combat with Gunther, it's very probable that JC would literally rest in pieces.

Gunther has atleast his skull, eyes, arms and maybe even legs pretty heavily augmented - organic tissue and robotics co-existing in his body. Of course he might have his whole upper body reinforced to a degree (we don't get to see that under his heavy body armor). I'm sure those metallic robotic actuators in his arms gave Gunther superhuman strenght and durability, but the arms still had the same basic purpose that arms usually have :P

Beside thos replaced limbs and other fortifications, I'm sure Gunther had a lot of under the skin functionality, for example invisibility, targeting systems, forcefields, satellite linkup and probably a highly advanced form of his brain working linked to a computer prosessor. I'm just saying that these technologies can still be pretty far in the future, and are more likely to be available by the time DX took place rather than at the time of HR.

Exactly, Gunther and Anna looked physically more powerful, and presumably were, and were lacking in the more advanced areas such as regenerating health. I mean, he was like the original Terminator: extremely durable and with some advanced systems, but the next advancement in technology was not the Terminator which could turn it's body into weapons, it was into more subtle, durable and effective augmentation. But the idea that they made more advanced augmentations first? Seems a bit much to me.

Originally Posted by Badmaker

what i want to see, is making Adam look almost like a cyborg, ljust like Hermann in DX1.
Maybe, if the augs are upgraded to the last level, they should look scary.
For example: the augmented eyes. If the player choose to upgrade them to last level, the eyes should look like Hermann or Anna's eyes. This idea will make DXHR a deep RPG. Some players may choose to augment their character very moderate, other may choose to get those scary augs.

But what more could Adam or Gunther get from an eye augmentation? In the trailer, the first one, we see throw Adam's eye: he's capable of looking through walls, getting a read out on the medical status of any assailants, the type and make of any weapons they're carring, and the augmentation is a perfect fit for his eye. His augmented eye, until close inspection, looks exactly like a normal eye should. At no point does it even come close to the bulky augmented eye of Gunther, and yet there is no more information which an augmented eye could provide is there? At least, none which could jusitfy making it twice the size it already is.

Originally Posted by Laokin

I think it's clear that they look very sleek in the original DX. Anna looks like 7 of 9 from Star Trek with a full eye, and her arms are just as sleek as Adams, they are just like a blue metal instead of gloss black.

Gunther is the same too, except he has two eyes and a metal skull. What is big and bulky about his augs? I see him just being a big hulk of muscle, like a tall Vin Diesal, with two Anna Eyes a skull plate, only half metal arms.

As for the eyes, less borg more terminator IMO.

Definitely had no exposed wires or anything. His metal head isn't bulky either, it's rather exactly the same as his normal head, just SMOOTH metal in texture. Smooth is the key word here.

Where is this elusive bulk you speak of? His Chest? Probably isn't even augmented, he looks like a body builder with a future armor vest on. His legs again may just be like thigh armor pads, the metal is on the outside of his pants guys.

Also, they do not have weaponized augmentations, so therefore when it comes to weaponized augs, you have no base reference to compare them to.

I don't see it. I never saw it. DX:HR is right. I owned DX1 from launch day.

Furthermore, it's the notion that it's noticeable that causes the social rift. You see a guy with a glowing red machine eye, are you going to trust him? Better yet, a guy with a noticeable metal head and arms, would you with him?

No, because I would lose.... which makes this guy scary by default. Children are scared of normal humans too... lets not exaggerate here.

And the fact that Gunther and Anna don't have weaponised augmentations should provide a decent hint that the augmentations of DX:HR are off. How could the too most advanced mechanically augmented international agents not have these basic, twenty year old augmentations?

And Gunther makes mention numerous times that he is fully augmented, that he's awaiting updates and even then those updates don't come close to what the augmentations in DX:HR are like. They're tactical updates like satellite uplinks. Take a look at this picture and look at the base of his neck, there's wiring and metal coming up and gong underneath the flesh. His chest is augmented. And if it wasn't why would his wiring between his brain and his limbs go through the front of his body and not simply connect to the nervous system in his spine and up to his brain?



And the Golem that scares children is how Gunther describes himself. The augmentations are supposed to be off putting, they're supposed to be socially damaging, they're supposed to alienate. That's why he's so jealous of JC and Paul, not just because they threaten to take his position as a field agent but also because they're still human. Look at the MIB mechs, they talk about being cold and dead inside. The continuity states that the augmentations should be socially castrating and dehumanising. Adam's eye, just as an example, is none of those things because it is so subtle and integrated. You can't even tell his eye's augmented until the close up in the trailer.

[Kodaemon]

MIB mechs

Whoa, dude, I've never seen those, where are they in the game?

[Kohtalo]

They're all around, the men in black. They're some form of cyborgs I guess.

[Badmaker]

Originally Posted by Kodaemon

Whoa, dude, I've never seen those, where are they ?

Behind u

[Kodaemon]

Seeing how no one seems to get it: MIBs are not mechs. They're physiopharmaceutically augmented and conditioned. Simply put: on hardcore meds & drugs and brainwashed.

[Badmaker]

@Kodaemon, the robot voice and red dotted eyes, pale white skin, regeneration, are all caused by hardcore meds ?
When i played DX1, i got the impressionthat MIB are mechs.

[Kodaemon]

http://theosek.sitesled.com/seriesp.html

[Daedalus Ciarán]

Originally Posted by Kodaemon

Seeing how no one seems to get it: MIBs are not mechs. They're physiopharmaceutically augmented and conditioned. Simply put: on hardcore meds & drugs and brainwashed.

Fair enough. Except that they were augmented. They had a blow-up-when-you-die augmentation. Their 'natural' augmentations though I'd clearly forgotten about.

Also, the voice.

So describing them as mechs is off, but they are mechanically augmented.

[mad_red]

Just letting my imagination run here:

UNATCO may not have access to the same funds as Seraf or other big corporations. Also, the mech-market may have taken a dive since the advent of nano-aug, resulting in more bare-bone products, rather than the flashy renaissance stuff. Finally, Manderley might not want his agents to have in-built weaponry, same reason he doesn't want Gunther to have a skull-gun and be able to kill with a thought.

There's always a way to make it seem more realistic

[Daedalus Ciarán]

Originally Posted by mad_red

Just letting my imagination run here:

UNATCO may not have access to the same funds as Seraf or other big corporations. Also, the mech-market may have taken a dive since the advent of nano-aug, resulting in more bare-bone products, rather than the flashy renaissance stuff. Finally, Manderley might not want his agents to have in-built weaponry, same reason he doesn't want Gunther to have a skull-gun and be able to kill with a thought.

There's always a way to make it seem more realistic

You mean to say that the multi national anti terrorist task force, set up to safe guard the political and social structure of the Western world and to guard and deliver the limited amounts of the only known vaccine to a contagious plague which has killed millions is under funded and unable to afford twenty year old mechanical augmentation? I don't think that makes things more realistic to be honest.

And if the mech market collapsed during/after the depression then I have to ask how Gunther and Anna were able to get these new, augmentations which don't have weapons? If the market crashed and they were forced to use what little could be salvaged surely they'd be using the old augmentations? The first generation ones? The ones which turn into machine guns? These are the original, basic models.

[Angel-A]

Originally Posted by Laokin

HR is being very true to the augmentations here, IMO. Not sure how I feel about the Icarus Gliding System's static electricity anti gravity though, that's the only one so far that has me like wtf.

To defend the electric energy ball thing, in DX1, Gunther had some kind of energy shield that came up if you attacked him.