New IGN article. Kinda interesting

The jackhammer · #1 04-26-2010, 03:25 PM

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1086139p1.html

**SammiiDoogles** · #2 04-26-2010, 03:36 PM

I've barely read any yet - but I just wanted to post a facepalm at the fact that they're still clinging on to the theory that it's in the future....

I'll post again when I'm done reading...

The jackhammer · #3 04-26-2010, 03:45 PM

Hahahaha

**SammiiDoogles** · #4 04-26-2010, 03:47 PM

Well, they did raise a few good points. Some of the stuff they said in the "Everything to lose" section sounded like good ideas, but some of the stuff sounded ridiculous; "Two Face is off the deep end crazy, let's have him flip his coin and shoot a nun or something" - It just sounds like they want it to just be dark for the sake of it, not to have any effect on the story. The points they raised in the "Everything to lose" section would work greatly in creating a motive and carrying the story along, but some of the other points they make throughout the article seem to just be a little OTT for the sake of it.

I think some of you may have seen the Batman fan film "Ashes to Ashes" ( http://www.ashestoashes-themovie.com/ )
Fantastic production values and visual style, but a lot of it just shocking and dark for the sake of it - this garnered the project a lot of criticism, and I'd hate AA2 to go the same way.

The jackhammer · #5 04-26-2010, 03:47 PM

Yeah I hear you. Being dark should be to help get the story across, not just to be a gimmick.

The jackhammer · #6 04-26-2010, 03:54 PM

I think if they used the robin death, but perhaps made it a fear toxin freak out, they could pull off an amazingly dark scene that wouldn't anger robin fans.

Matches Malone · #7 04-26-2010, 03:56 PM

I think the nun comment is actually pulled from a story, I seem to remember him offing a couple nuns.
The only time Ashes to Ashes goes over board is when Batman loses it in the end. Joker's violence was perfect, well founded, and quite frankly a very realistic interpretation of the character.\

To me most of the Batman villains are sociopaths with 0 empathy, they are going to kill seemingly without motive, much like actual serial killers. I like the excessive violence, it makes the villains less gimmicky and more of a serious threat. I think thats the point ign was trying to make, they just didn't want waste time typing out different scenarios. AA still felt pretty child filtered to me as well. Knowing that people die every second these psychos are loose is a great motivation for Batman, it seems silly if its just banks being robbed just bc its 2nd bank of Gotham and Two Face feels compelled to rob it bc of the number 2. Why not have Two Face kidnap Siamese twins to hold for ransom and then have him try to murder one of them, even after the ransom was paid (from TDKR, didn't make up).

Maybe ign and I just read too much Frank Miller though.

**SammiiDoogles** · #8 04-26-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

The only time Ashes to Ashes goes over board is when Batman loses it in the end. .

What about when

- to me that's not Joker and not dark to carry on the story - that's just sick for the sake of it, which is what I hope AA2 doesn't become.

The jackhammer · #9 04-26-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammiiDoogles

What about when

- to me that's not Joker and not dark to carry on the story - that's just sick for the sake of it, which is what I hope AA2 doesn't become.

I'm not worried, I have faith that rocksteady will get it right.

**SammiiDoogles** · #10 04-26-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The jackhammer

I'm not worried, I have faith that rocksteady will get it right.

Oh of course, I hope for them to have it similar to AA in tone - they seemed to have the dark balance perfect.

Drazar · #11 04-26-2010, 06:42 PM

I think Greg Miller has some good ideas there, but the blog post seems he was just very hyped and excited when he wrote it.

You see the ideas, but he's not really giving any further thought or reasonings why this should happen. Now i did heavily disagree on some parts tho, such as:

Quote:

If Arkham Asylum 2 is going to get dark, it needs to make Batman vulnerable. If Robin's really in this game, he needs to be captured and tortured. Imagine having a conversation with Oracle only to hear her door get kicked down, a struggle ensue, and a gunshot ring out before the feed is cut. The next game needs to hit Batman hard where he's the weakest – hit him where he's not in control. Running through Arkham and seeing dead security guards is one thing but racing through the streets trying to get to Robin who is slowly bleeding out is another.

Now why is it that Robin is the one who needs to be tortured and captured? Why can't it be Batman? Both Batman and Robin are capable escape artists, why demean the other character? If Rocksteady wants to sell the idea that Robin is cool, badass and not a useless character. Things such as Robin being captured and tortured isn't going to help whatsoever. Ofcourse this is my opinion on the matter. :| Why can't we have both Batman and Robin being tortured and beaten? Batman was very beaten at the end of AA, yet he still managed to save the day.

Quote:

Batman: Arkham Asylum doesn't end with everything being grand – Batman's exhausted, Two Face is robbing a bank, and the Dark Knight is heading out to save the day – but the bad guys have been beaten and you're the big hero. However, that's not always how a Batman story ends. Look at the end of The Dark Knight: Batman's love is dead, Harvey Dent has been corrupted, and Gotham thinks that Bats is the villain. If we had to bet, look for Arkham Asylum 2 to end this way as well. Remember all the horrible stuff we listed in the "Everything to Lose" section above? Imagine if Batman didn't get to Robin's aid in time. Imagine Bats getting there just in time to hear Tim Drake's last words and face the fact that his friend is dead and the bad guy got away.

Again i'm not a fan of killing off established characters. If you look at the characters who died in Arkham Asylum. They we're all created for the game, and they even swapped Jeremiah Arkham with Warden Sharp, just to make sure they wouldn't mess with Jeremiah character by having him go bats... Ofcourse right now in the comic world, he has went fully bats, but see thats another story and still going on in the comic world. It's not like we're going to see Batman and Robin murdering people, so we also don't need any established character such as Joker, Robin, Harley die off. It's not needed to tell a dark story.

Quote:

The last Arkham Asylum showed us a Batman who is accepted and appreciated by the cops and the people of Gotham City. Want to make Arkham Asylum 2 dark? Get rid of that goodwill. Make the whole world go crazy and hate Batman. Pin a murder on him. Get Nightwing and Bruce's former allies to come after him. Have him have to fight the police and have to pull punches so that he doesn't hurt them. Framing Batman is an old story, but it's usually a good one and nothing's darker than being so hated that it seems like you'll never clear your name.

I find this hard to work out, unless Batman goes MIA and something tragic happens to him... Hey how about Batman gets full of scarecrow fear gas and Joker gas? Oh oh and to make it better, he wears This! Ah here are the ingredients for the most epic Batman game of all epicness.

Batman The Trailer Hunter · #12 04-26-2010, 06:46 PM

i'll have to watch ashes to ashes

Argel319 · #13 04-26-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batman The Sequel Hunter

i'll have to watch ashes to ashes

What is it?

Matches Malone · #14 04-26-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammiiDoogles

What about when

- to me that's not Joker and not dark to carry on the story - that's just sick for the sake of it, which is what I hope AA2 doesn't become.

To me that is completely Joker, he gets off by manipulating people and making them do monstrous things like he does, to break their sanity and show them that the only way the world makes sense is through chaos and insanity.

The overly violent Joker is the one that makes sense to me. A crook who dresses like a clown, hits people giant hammers and shocks them with hand buzzers does not. I do believe in a happy medium between the two though.

Batman The Trailer Hunter · #15 04-26-2010, 07:57 PM

Im watching ashes to ashes now, and i hate it! Stuff like that isnt batman, to me at least. It would ruin the game

EliteF50 · #16 04-26-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batman The Sequel Hunter

Im watching ashes to ashes now, and i hate it! Stuff like that isnt batman, to me at least. It would ruin the game

Yeah, Ashes to Ashes is terrible, in my opinion.

kalle90 · #17 04-27-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Now why is it that Robin is the one who needs to be tortured and captured? Why can't it be Batman?

Probably because we play as Batman, and many people wouldn't want that to change even if they like Robin. When playing Batman games with no story (Lego, Forever) I usually play as Robin, but switching character usually messes up the immersion when the story matters.

Of course it could still be something MGS-esque so you are trying to escape as Batman, but Robin is the real one helping you escape. That probably wouldn't be the optimal storytelling either though.

Quote:

Again i'm not a fan of killing off established characters. If you look at the characters who died in Arkham Asylum. They we're all created for the game, and they even swapped Jeremiah Arkham with Warden Sharp, just to make sure they wouldn't mess with Jeremiah character by having him go bats... Ofcourse right now in the comic world, he has went fully bats, but see thats another story and still going on in the comic world. It's not like we're going to see Batman and Robin murdering people, so we also don't need any established character such as Joker, Robin, Harley die off. It's not needed to tell a dark story.

IMO this is a really complicated issue. I somewhat like the fact these amazing characters don't die, but ultimately it kills the excitement and interest. Nothing really matters in the end if no important person dies/paralyzes/other severe incident. This is why I rarely read comics or follow any series that don't ever seem to end. No one ever wins or loses. For actually planning to end the series already, Nolan gets my points.

Batman beats the criminals only to see them escape again. I'm not saying Batman should kill, but some Begins-esque "I don't have to save you", having police or villains killing each other. Sharp could also create some drama by killing ie Zsasz or Calendarman. Or Batman could be left with the choice to let someone good die or kill the bad one, with no Macgyverish miracle workabound.

Not to mention this game creates its own universe afterall. The series probably won't run forever (Who believes it lasts more than 10 games without decreasing quality?) either so killing off characters dramatically would probably be great IMO. The villain category is huge so Rocksteady can kill atleast a few and a couple of heroes could die too. Many of the villains can't even work well gameplaywise.

Case in point:

The effect was ruined because of predictability.

Hall E Woode · #18 04-27-2010, 08:24 AM

I think AA2 should somehow be like an episode (or season, hehe) of the show "24". Let's not just make it dark, let's make it even more intense. Batman has to save the city, and no one trusts him. And I'm okay with killing characters off if it serves a purpose.

Matches Malone · #19 04-27-2010, 08:35 AM

I think Joker should kill Harley, like he should have done about 18 yrs ago. Can't really count on Paul Dini to do the right thing in that area though.

Green Lantern · #20 04-27-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

I think Joker should kill Harley, like he should have done about 18 yrs ago. Can't really count on Paul Dini to do the right thing in that area though.

I disagree i do however think that Harley should break away from Joker in this game.

To hopefully re-create the Gotham City Sirens team for another game in the series.

Matches Malone · #21 04-27-2010, 08:56 AM

Yeah maybe they can kidnap Bruce Wayne and go shopping with his credit cards!!!! That will make it darker!!! (reference to the worst Batman TAS episode ever) JK

yeah we disagree on this. Not a big fan of Harley or the female team ups.

Actually I wouldn't mind her breaking away from Joker, anything to separate them. It just doesn't make sense for Joker to keep her around. IMO