survival instinct, hints, help icons, etc - what would you use and what not?

[Driber]

So we've already heard some details about how the game "helps" the player to advance. For the casual gamer, all these aids may be fine, but I think the (hardcore) TR fans like myself would appreciate it if we can actually choose whether we will see them or use them in the game.

Now, we already know about Survival Instinct being optional (you have to press a certain button to enable it) but what about all the other aids?

Would you mind if they are mandatory? Would it be annoying if you were prompted with messages like "Use item X to open door Y"?

Let's use this thread to discuss each and every announced game aid and what you like or don't like about it.

To kickstart the discussion, I will say that I personally would prefer if the game has a difficulty setting in which all of these aides are turned OFF so that I have to find out how to do everything myself, because 1) I am a fan of old style TR and 2) I think it would increase game immersion - IRL you don't have help icons popping up when you're lost in the woods, either.

[Metalrocks]

i personally would not use [survival instinct], unless it would be such a huge map that you get lost. but since its optional by just pressing a button, i dont have a big problem with it but does take away the survival part.
and what i saw so far from the videos, was just the indicator where your next main objective is. not where every little thing is hidden.

but i think it would be a good idea if this game would not have it and the player has to rely on the environment only.
as they said, follow the river and you will arrive at the checkpoint. if every part of the island has landmark that sticks out form the rest, then its easy to find your way.

[pidipidi39]

Originally Posted by Metalrocks

i personally would not use [survival instinct], unless it would be such a huge map that you get lost. but since its optional by just pressing a button, i dont have a big problem with it but does take away the survival part.
and what i saw so far from the videos, was just the indicator where your next main objective is. not where every little thing is hidden.

but i think it would be a good idea if this game would not have it and the player has to rely on the environment only.
as they said, follow the river and you will arrive at the checkpoint. if every part of the island has landmark that sticks out form the rest, then its easy to find your way.

Yeah, i think you're right. They should delete it. I saw also in the Comic-Con demo that every 3 seconds (exaggeration) on the screen appears the info-box of the mission that says to you what to do. Example: when Lara must collect the salvages to open the door, she collects them and after she goes to the camp and she updates her axe. But, isn't necessary that after you did it the info-box says to you ''Return to the door and open it''. A player can understand by himself!

So, i think that in this game there are too many helps. Maybe because we saw only the beggining of the game... infact i heard Karl saying that the Door puzzle was simple only because this part of the game need only to teach to the player how the game's mechanics work. So i'm not worried about that.

[Metalrocks]

Originally Posted by pidipidi39

Yeah, i think you're right. They should delete it. I saw also in the Comic-Con demo that every 3 seconds (exaggeration) on the screen appears the info-box of the mission that says to you what to do. Example: when Lara must collect the salvages to open the door, she collects them and after she goes to the camp and she updates her axe. But, isn't necessary that after you did it the info-box says to you ''Return to the door and open it''. A player can understand by himself!

So, i think that in this game there are too many helps. Maybe because we saw only the beggining of the game... infact i heard Karl saying that the Door puzzle was simple only because this part of the game need only to teach to the player how the game's mechanics work. So i'm not worried about that.

sounds good enough to me.
and yes, for the beginning its obvious that everything will be explained to you to understand the mechanics and what you can do in the game. but otherwise, no. it shoulndt be in for the rest of the game.
let the player guess and find it for them selfs. unless they really get lost and you can have a little help option.

[Driber]

Hmmm I see you guys have already started to discuss individual points, hehe. Okay let's skip the poll and just get right down to business

I changed the thread title and re-wrote the OP

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@metal, it wasn't entirely clear what you meant by "it". I assume you were talking about survival instinct, so I added that to your post for clarity

[a big house]

If it's possible, I would switch everything off the only kind of hint I want is the main objective, such as 'Find Roth' I'd want to do that without any kind of 'He might be somewhere near the shipwreck' blab or floating pillars of light

[pidipidi39]

Originally Posted by a big house

If it's possible, I would switch everything off the only kind of hint I want is the main objective, such as 'Find Roth' I'd want to do that without any kind of 'He might be somewhere near the shipwreck' blab or floating pillars of light

You explained what i want. But i don't want switch off these by myself, i'd like to have a Purist Mode.

[Metalrocks]

Originally Posted by Driber

Hmmm I see you guys have already started to discuss individual points, hehe. Okay let's skip the poll and just get right down to business

I changed the thread title and re-wrote the OP

---

@metal, it wasn't entirely clear what you meant by "it". I assume you were talking about survival instinct, so I added that to your post for clarity

lol. should be obvious when i use "it" for "survival instinct", since its the topic. doesnt matter. thanks for the change.

@biggouse
sounds good to me as well. just the objective. nothing more. if they want us to explore, then leave it (survival instinct ) out. like this you might find things you would have never thought to explore.

[Elliot Kane]

Toggles are good. But I wouldn't want my hand held throughout the whole game.

It's nice to be able to get hints if you are totally stuck and actually NEED them, but I don't want to be told "You'll get a better shot from behind the rock to your left" when I'm trying to snipe someone, as a random example.

I don't yet know if I'll use any of the hint systems, because I don't have the faintest idea if I'll need them yet. But I don't think I'd want any of them to be mandatory.

[Shaikh]

I probably will not use any of those. If there wouldn't be any map, then I might use the Survival Instinct for next objective location purpose. But since there will be a map, I probably will not use Survival Instinct. And if there's option to turn off hints and help icons, I would turn them off first.

[JsotoTRSeries]

I may probably use them (if there's no other choice) but i'd rather try to figure things out by myself first.

[Andrashi]

Balancing the ingame help is a tricky issue.

Personally, I would in general implement an option to choose one from three "levels of help" -

1.) Cinematic mode. Heavily assisted, intended for causal gaming public, which wants to have its effortless fun.

2.) Semipurist mode. Objectives and ocassional hints (around "tricky places") are present, but no hand-guiding. Intended for either casual gamers who don't want to have it that easy or for "hardcore" gamers who don't want to spend half an hour searching for the solution of some puzzle yet who know that "crowbar is of course used to open those doors in a previous room."

3.) Purist mode. No help at all, only objective is clearly comunicated to the player. Intended for hardcore gaming public ( "loud minority" of the market).

[pidipidi39]

Originally Posted by Andrashi

Balancing the ingame help is a tricky issue.

Personally, I would in general implement an option to choose one from three "levels of help" -

1.) Cinematic mode. Heavily assisted, intended for causal gaming public, which wants to have its effortless fun.

2.) Semipurist mode. Objectives and ocassional hints (around "tricky places") are present, but no hand-guiding. Intended for either casual gamers who don't want to have it that easy or for "hardcore" gamers who don't want to spend half an hour searching for the solution of some puzzle yet who know that "crowbar is of course used to open those doors in a previous room."

3.) Purist mode. No help at all, only objective is clearly comunicated to the player. Intended for hardcore gaming public ( "loud minority" of the market).

perfect! i hope that someone of CD (maybe Meagan) will read your post

[Elliot Kane]

How not to provide player assistance, courtesy of The Noob

[Metalrocks]

Originally Posted by Andrashi

Balancing the ingame help is a tricky issue.

Personally, I would in general implement an option to choose one from three "levels of help" -

1.) Cinematic mode. Heavily assisted, intended for causal gaming public, which wants to have its effortless fun.

2.) Semipurist mode. Objectives and ocassional hints (around "tricky places") are present, but no hand-guiding. Intended for either casual gamers who don't want to have it that easy or for "hardcore" gamers who don't want to spend half an hour searching for the solution of some puzzle yet who know that "crowbar is of course used to open those doors in a previous room."

3.) Purist mode. No help at all, only objective is clearly comunicated to the player. Intended for hardcore gaming public ( "loud minority" of the market).

this sounds pretty good to me as well. like this, you can reply it again if your first or second play through on medium difficulty ended up not finding everything. switch to easy and you will find the rest.

@driber
i think you could open an poll with who wants it and not and "i dont care/dont mind them", etc.

[sierra xb]

I don't mind if the helper icons show up in the first section of the game ONLY, but i do want the option to turn them off entirely. For example, the first levels of Legend and Anniversary have non-optional help icons. I don't mind that so much the first play through, but by the second time around, i was saying " icons" every time they showed up. An optin to turn them off permanently would have been welcome.

I don't plan to use the survival instinct at all, unless i just get totally stuck somewhere for more than a few days. i am very glad it is optional.

The mission objectives i don't mind as long as they aren't rediculously obvious, and don't hang around on the screen forever.

[Driber]

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpos...3&postcount=16

Originally Posted by Metalrocks

@driber
i think you could open an poll with who wants it and not and "i dont care/dont mind them", etc.

Again you're being unclear with your "it"

Before I start the poll, we would need clear names and preferably visual examples like screengrabs, so that everyone knows what we're talking about.

[Metalrocks]

Originally Posted by Driber

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpos...3&postcount=16

this option sounds acceptable as well.

Originally Posted by Driber

Again you're being unclear with your "it"

Before I start the poll, we would need clear names and preferably visual examples like screengrabs, so that everyone knows what we're talking about.

lol. ok, so i will use "them" instead of "it".
just to me. the survival instinct is actually all of the above written. thats why i use "it".

[Driber]

Errr, I'm confused - all of the above written are part of Survival Instinct?

Helper icons and hint texts are NOT part of SI. The SI is a button you press and then it highlights paths, etc. It has nothing to do with hints like "take your bow and upgrade it" or those flame icons above burnable objects.

Unless I missed something