Serpent room

[Collin]

Can someone please explain the serpent room in the Library level?

There are 7 serpents, and therefor 7 flames you must ignit to raise the raising_block that enables you to go to the next level. But how do you set this up with only 5 OCB numbers (don't know what you guys call them)....

When I open it with tr2_prj I get the file, but there are some triggers missing. There are three triggers for fame emitters per switch, but there isn't a trigger for the raising block!?!? And the triggers are all switch triggers without any special settings....

Why don´t you use the original Library prj from Core?
It came with the New WADs and many sites have it.
In this prj, all triggers are there.

[Piega]

For this puzzle there is something in the script.

AnimatingMIP= 1,7

I think this has something to do with the setup for the puzzle. I have not tried it for myself yet so good luck

[eTux]

The xxxMIP are less detailed variations of the object they are from (Animating, enemy). The script line just tells the radius of squares you see the less detailed object from, I heard.

Never tried this, and sorry, don't know how to set up the serpent room, but I doubt that the AnimatingMIP will solve the problem, that's why I dropped in in this thread.

But what about the MipMap line? what is that for? Does it effect the serpent puzzle?

[Collin]

Originally posted by Piega
For this puzzle there is something in the script.

AnimatingMIP= 1,7

I think this has something to do with the setup for the puzzle. I have not tried it for myself yet so good luck

The flame emitters are numbered from 1 to 7, but other than that, there aren't any clues..... but I'll try it with Phabius' suggestion.

And you can wish me as much luck as you want, but I have no idea how to set this up.... I can get this puzzle up to the part where you put the serpents and flame emitters in the room, and that's about it..... How can you set it up that the 7 flames must be light, and not that you have to pull the 7 levers.... Can you 'edit' the furniture so that at every point of the star there should be a flame? Can you do it with an animation that's only triggered when the 7 flames are light? I simply have no idea what to do.... These are about the only things I can think of, but I don't see it happening with these ideas....

Thanks for the replies....

[Chronicles5]

Well, since I have no idea how to work this puzzle, I figure I may as well wish you luck also. So here it is: Good Luck!!

Definetely try that official PRJ, though...

It can't be that hard, but some things in TR are really annoying.

[aktrekker]

In the original level, you don't need all 7 switches on. Only 5 of them work, the others are dummy switches to throw you off.
There is no way to trigger something with 7 triggers. The maximum is 5.

[Collin]

Then why is it that the raising block doesn't move when you remove 1 of the flame emitters?

[aktrekker]

Looking at the project, each switch triggers more than one flame emitter, just like it works when you play the level. But some switches antitrigger flame emitters. You have to get the right combination of switches to raise the block.
I couldn't find the trigger for the raising block either. I even converted the TRLR level and it isn't there. But all the triggers are there (looks like the triggers need a little work).
This might be one of those hard-coded things. I suspect the furniture object in the room might possibly have something to do with it. Or the serpents themselves, since they are animating objects instead of statics, which seems unnecessary since the switch is a different object.
A very curious puzzle indeed!

[Collin]

What I found out is that the furniture3 isn't part of it. Maybe it has something to do with the OCB numbers in the flames (1 to 7) and this in relation with the script: animatingMIP 1,7 (1 for animating 1 and 7 for the number of objects?)? I have tried deleting all but the switch triggers, the flame triggers and the serpents. I'm going to try deleting the switches and serpents.... Maybe this will give a clue......

Originally posted by aktrekker
In the original level, you don't need all 7 switches on. Only 5 of them work, the others are dummy switches to throw you off.
There is no way to trigger something with 7 triggers. The maximum is 5.

Well, actually YOU CAN ACTIVE SOMTHING USING MORE THAT 5 SWITCH. but you must have to use switch triggers OR IT WILL NOT WORK.

The "switch" trigger is a litle special cose it affect the items activation bits using a method called "XOR", programers people knwon what does it mean.

For example,

put a Door in the room, then put 7 switch to trigger the door but use these activation bits button:

switch#1--- 01111
switch#2--- 10111
switch#3--- 11011
switch#4--- 11101
switch#5--- 10011
switch#6--- 11100
switch#7--- 01110

If i am correct you will need to pull down all 7 switch to make the door Open.

For people that don't known whar "XOR" mean, it just mean that when a code bit is used with a "switch" then the code bit is TURN ENABLED...but if that code bits is already enabled by any previus switch then it is TURN DISABLED...that is why is called "switch" what is Off is turned ON and what is turned ON if turned OFF.

Other cool example using XOR:

- Put a door in the room as normal
- put a 2th door in the room but for this one...
- press the "O" key and define for this 2th door activation bits to all bits ON.
- Then put a switch and trigger both doors with the same switch trigger.

In game the 2th door will start already opened, and the 1th door will start closed (as normal), when you pull down the switch then the 1th door will be opened but at the same time the 2th door will be closed. The inverse will happen if you pull back UP the swicth.

Severals others cool tricks can be done using XOR method and playing with activations bits in the items and in the trigger.


Good luck.

Turbo Pascal.

[Collin]

Hey, thanks for replying!! I'll try that XOR thingy....

But can you explain the method you use with the bits buttons?!?! I mean, what do you have to do when you have 10, 9, 8,..... switches? 'Cause I can't see the logic in this list:
01111
10111
11011
11101
10011
11100
01110
(or maybe it's just my thick head.....)

And when you use only 6 switches.... Do you then use the first 6 'numbers'?

[aktrekker]

Each of the 5 columns (the 5 code bits) must have an odd number of ON (1). That is, if all the code bits start as OFF. Then when a switch turns on the code bit (1), it becomes ON. If another switch then turns it on (1), it actually goes OFF. The next time it goes ON, etc. When all the code bits are ON, the object is triggered.

[Collin]

Let me see if I get this....

It doesn't matter which code bit sequence you use for the first switch, or the second switch, or.... You just have to make sure that, when you've (in this case) pulled 7 switches, that 'the sum' (I don't know how else to put it: 0+0=0; 0+1=1; 1+1=0 if you know what I mean) of all the code bits is 1 in all the 5 places...

For example:
switch #1: 01101 (place 2, 3 and 5 are pressed, place 1 and 4 are not pressed)
switch #2: 10100

This would result (in my feeble brain) to 11001

So if switch #3 is: 00110

The end result would be 11111 and whatever would be triggered is triggered.

Is this understandable, and if so, is it correct?

>So if switch #3 is: 00110

>The end result would be 11111 and whatever would be triggered is triggered.

>Is this understandable, and if so, is it correct?

Yes, you are correct, that is exactly how XOR works.

However i have to admit that is not so easy to found severlas different activation bits combination that ONLY when all are used will result in 11111.

if you noted in my previus post...it was edited...this was becouse originally i used a easy combination where yes all 7 will result in 11111 but later i realized that also just using 4 of them (in different order) will result in 11111 too!, so it took me a while to found 7 different combination where seems will result in 11111 ONLY when all 7 are used.

I think Aktreker method of cheking odd amount "1" in columns is the best way to found the right bits combination for the amount switch you want.


You also must note that when you place a item (a door for exaple)you can put a starting activation bits for it, and with each switch you can trigger severals doors that where placed with different activation bits, this will make a switch affect in different way severals door at the same time, some of them get trigered and some of then get antitriggered.


goo luck.

tp.

[Collin]

Thanks for clearing it up!

I've been playing with the settings, and I think I have a pretty good idea what to do and what not to do...... And as you said: it's all but easy when you try to do something with a lot of switches..... A real brain teaser, this puzzle!

[aktrekker]

And it still doesn't explain the raising blocks.

[Collin]

Yeah, that also puzzles me..... I think the triggers got lost in some process somewhere.... 'Cause the triggers nor the switches have a special ocb setting.....

But what do I know!

[aktrekker]

If the triggers got lost, then they got lost in the original level from TRLR. I suspect this may be one of those hardcoded effects. Of course, it may be a bug in the LE that keeps it from finding the trigger.
I wonder if building a level with the same puzzle and placing it in the same level slot (library) would make it work?

[Collin]

It is very strange...... There are no triggers, but it all works fine...... So maybe your hunch is correct!

I wish you the best of luck finding it out! I got my room to work, and I know how to explain it to others. So I think the job for this rookie is done!

[JohnnyZ]

that is great news!! could u email me a tutorial? sorry am i being annoying? johnlincoln18165@aol.com

[Collin]

I think this should suffice: (if not let me know)

Normal rule:

It doesn't matter which code bit sequence you use for the first switchtrigger, or the second switchtrigger, or.... You just have to make sure that, when you've pulled all the switches, that 'the sum' of all the code bits in all the 5 code bit places is 1.
And some different maths apply here:
0+0=0
0+1=1
1+0=1
1+1=0

For example (with 3 switches):
switchtrigger #1: 01101 (place 2, 3 and 5 are pressed, place 1 and 4 are not pressed)
switchtrigger #2: 10100

When you add these settings up, the result is:
01101
10100
11001

So if you set switchtrigger #3 to: 00110

The end result (when you pull all three triggers) would be 11111 and the object with (triggers on all 3 places) is triggered.

The exception:

The result of pulling different switches doesn't always have to be 11111. When you open the OCB panel of an object, there are 5 code bits. You can press them, and these settings also have to be added up to the switchtrigger settings.

For example (with 3 switches):
switchtrigger #1: 01001
switchtrigger #2: 10101
switchtrigger #3: 00010

So the end result of all the switches is 11110. (It doesn't necessarily have to be 11110. It can also be 00101, 11111, 11100,...)

Now, when you have 3 doors that need to be opened at different times, you can use the OCB code bit of the object.

door 1: 00011
door 2: 01000
door 3: 00001

Then you place triggers for door 1, door 2 and door 3 on the tile of switchtrigger #1, #2 and #3 (so you place 9 triggers!). Now you just have to add up.

Let's say you pull switch 1 and 2:
switchtrigger #1 + switchtrigger #2 + door 1 =
01001
10101
00011
11111 and door 1 will open.

switchtrigger #1 + switchtrigger #2 + door 2 =
01001
10101
01000
10100 and door 2 is will not open ('cause the end result isn't 11111).

switchtrigger #1 + switchtrigger #2 + door 3 =
01001
10101
00001
11101 and door 3 is will not open.

So:
door 1 opens after switch 1 & 2;
door 2 opens after switch 2 & 3;
door 3 opens after switch 1 & 2 & 3 AND door 1 and door 2 will close when you pull switch 3 ('cause the code bits don't add up to 11111)!!

I have made a little something in Excell, so you can immediately see what results different switches give (max. 5 switches). You can get it here (switch combination).

Good luck!

[JohnnyZ]

Thanx colin!!!! i appreicate it