Interactive environment

[Yaphy]

In the previous thief games you couldnt interact with enough stuff in the world. Especially Thief DS was poor done with that. I would want the "cut down stuff from the walls" back. Maye to distact guards and such. It would also be fun if you could:

-Crush window glass and other glass stuff.
-Make the fire arrow burn instead of explode, its not an explosion arrow is it?
-Be able to lockpick windowlocks to make a different way in to a house.
-Move objekts by walk towards them and make Garrets hand grab the objekt and push it.
-Balance on narrow logs over rivers, roofs and such.
-Shoot a torch to make it fall of its holder.
-See the stuff we pick up rather then having it like an icon.
-If moving inside a bush, Garret should put up his hands for protection.

Thats all i can think of right now. Is it good ideas or not? Feel free to think out own logical stuff that Garret and other people can interact with in Thief 4.

THX

[ZylonBane]

Half of those things were already in the first games.

[Yaphy]

Yes, and i want em back. And for the other half...Well i want them to.

[GmanPro]

It would be nice to see the environment be more dynamic yes. I like the idea of being able to remove torches from their holding places. Could save a water arrow just by picking up the torch and throwing it into a puddle.

I also want the weather to play a major role in how you determine your strategy for each level. Say it starts raining during a mission, so your fire arrows become less effective. Or, if a surface is wet, you cannot use your climbing gloves on it (assuming there are climbing gloves of course). And now, that crate that you wanted to pick up and move closer to the wall so you can climb on top of it is waterlogged. You move more slowly with it because its heavier. And be careful not to step in that wet ditch because you'll be tracking muddy footprints for at least 30 steps.

[Smooogy]

I want Garrett to be able to move through plants and see Havock physics like most games have these days. It's not too much to ask. Add in the shadow element and you have some freakalicious graphics from the swaying flora.

I said something about immersion in one of my other posts and this is definitely a way to get it. The more you can interact with what's around you, the less you remember that you're sitting in front of a machine.

[Yaphy]

Yes, thats a really good idea. Keep it up! The graphic designers often do poor graphics to plants, bushes and other flora when they make games. How come? Is it really that hard?

[WVI]

Yes, it is, trust me. >_>

[Smooogy]

I admit I've never had to create graphics, but the moving plants and affected shadows would put Thief 4 up there with some of the greatest games of all time. Since its stealth, I say, make the environment the star of the game.

[ZylonBane]

Originally Posted by Smooogy

I admit I've never had to create graphics, but the moving plants and affected shadows would put Thief 4 up there with some of the greatest games of all time. Since its stealth, I say, make the environment the star of the game.

Smogy, you seem to have bumped your head and forgotten that this thread is about Thief, not Far Cry. The quantity of vegetation in the City is so utterly minimal that it should be a firing offense to waste any development time on the sort of things you suggest.

[Master Taffer]

*Cough*Any Pagan based level*Cough*

[Smooogy]

Originally Posted by Master Taffer

*Cough*Any Pagan based level*Cough*

Indeed

[GmanPro]

Still. One level is hardly worth the effort. Just copy and paste the vegetation from TRU. Done.

[ZylonBane]

Originally Posted by Master Taffer

*Cough*Any Pagan based level*Cough*

...are mostly trees. Thief is set in the rough vicinity of Europe. While you will find forests there, you won't find the sort of massive tropical plant life that would make integrating them into the physics engine worthwhile.

Even then, each Thief game has had, what... just one Pagan level each? Even if they were set in the heart of the Amazon that still wouldn't make it a smart investment of dev time.

[Master Taffer]

Originally Posted by GmanPro

Still. One level is hardly worth the effort. Just copy and paste the vegetation from TRU. Done.

I'de much rather have some effort put into every aspect of the game. Sub par effort results in games like Deadly Shadows. Good, but doesn't live up to its predecessors.

[GmanPro]

Actually, Deadly Shadows was so concerned with getting the graphics right, that it neglected to polish any other aspect of the game. Thief 2 on the other hand featured graphics that were already quite dated. But pretty graphics was never the point.

[Master Taffer]

Yes, but I don't believe that in order to have good game play, you have to use dated graphics. There are plenty of great games on the modern market that play amazingly and still look gorgeous.

[WVI]

Actually, Deadly Shadows was so concerned with getting the graphics right, that it neglected to polish any other aspect of the game.

Everything that was designed was designed so by choice. It wasn't a matter of rushing the game or being too distracted with graphics. Just take a look at the stealth system; it's easily the best. You can actually see, for example, which shadows will actually hide you. I'm not saying don't knock on DS, but to look at a bad game and say it's bad because of ___________ takes a lot to back it up. For instance, Sonic the Hedgehog for 360/PS3. Yeah, the game was rushed, but most of its faults were due to genuine sloppy design, NOT switching focus.

[ZylonBane]

Originally Posted by GmanPro

Actually, Deadly Shadows was so concerned with getting the graphics right, that it neglected to polish any other aspect of the game.

If you read any of the behind-the-scenes stuff, the dev team was apparently quite stressed just trying to get the game not looking like crap. I'd say they only barely succeeded. They certainly crashed and burned in the animation department.

[Smooogy]

Originally Posted by WVI

Everything that was designed was designed so by choice. It wasn't a matter of rushing the game or being too distracted with graphics. Just take a look at the stealth system; it's easily the best. You can actually see, for example, which shadows will actually hide you. I'm not saying don't knock on DS, but to look at a bad game and say it's bad because of ___________ takes a lot to back it up. For instance, Sonic the Hedgehog for 360/PS3. Yeah, the game was rushed, but most of its faults were due to genuine sloppy design, NOT switching focus.

LoLMega @ the sonic referrence! Poor sonic has been trying so hard

[WVI]

Originally Posted by ZylonBane

If you read any of the behind-the-scenes stuff, the dev team was apparently quite stressed just trying to get the game not looking like crap. I'd say they only barely succeeded. They certainly crashed and burned in the animation department.

Some stuff does look pretty silly, yeah, but I certainly hope you're not comparing that to the rest of the series, because if you are...<_<;

[Maethius]

I would say that moving plants has its place, especially if we make another foray into Pagan territory, but more importantly to gameplay, what about leaving tracks in soft earth? Now, wouldn't you have to be just a bit more careful in a wilderness or snowy level if your tracks could be seen by a passing guard? Also, as a previous thread indicated, that should be tempered with the NPC AI being toned down in crowded areas... who cares if Garrett leaves fresh prints in a heavily trafficked area? And, yes, many, many times I wish that I could yank a torch off a wall, or wished that they weren't making arrow-proof light bulbs!

[Smooogy]

Originally Posted by WVI

Some stuff does look pretty silly, yeah, but I certainly hope you're not comparing that to the rest of the series, because if you are...<_<;

LoL who knows what ZylonBane is saying? I never even read his posts because all he does, I've heard, is run his mouth and try and get someone upset.

He's made a point to respond to like all of my comments so far and I've not read one of them

[ZylonBane]

Originally Posted by WVI

Some stuff does look pretty silly, yeah, but I certainly hope you're not comparing that to the rest of the series, because if you are...<_<;

Yes, the animation in Deadly Shadows is worse than in the previous two games.

[Master Taffer]

Originally Posted by Smooogy

LoL who knows what ZylonBane is saying? I never even read his posts because all he does, I've heard, is run his mouth and try and get someone upset.

He's made a point to respond to like all of my comments so far and I've not read one of them

Good policy.

[ToMegaTherion]

At least in Deadly Shadows they managed to get guards to move and attack at the same time