News: possibly new LOK in the making...

[Graz'zt]

Word is that eidos is currently making a reboot of the legacy of kain series. It'll include new artwork and the whole deal. Word was that it was going to be announced at E3 but they didn't have it ready enough to show it off.

[Paradoks]

We already have a thread about it here.

[KainFanatic192]

You know, if a new LOK game was to be here and they would be looking for an actor to play EG, why not James Earl Jones? I could see his deep voice as something great to work with for EG.

[unspoken]

Originally Posted by KainFanatic192

You know, if a new LOK game was to be here and they would be looking for an actor to play EG, why not James Earl Jones? I could see his deep voice as something great to work with for EG.

Sure, if you're willing to pay $300 for the game.

[KainFanatic192]

Originally Posted by unspoken

Sure, if you're willing to pay $300 for the game.

Yeah, unfortunately, it's gonna have to come out of someone else's pocket, just not mine.

[OugaBooga1]

they don't need EG cause it's prolly BO1, if it is SR1 then you can reuse what jay has done in the past.It's not very hard to cut & splice previously recorded audio to sound different, Utube has lots of stuff like that.
Anyhow, all these reminders of something happening with the LoK series is getting old.
I would still love to see more LoK but IMHO the artwork, level design & story would not be the same, look @ any other game that has slept for 5-10yrs & it's usually not the same stuff.
Diablo 3 is a great example for ME of a game NOT living up to the hype tho it has had some fixes for it lately, it's still not what i expected.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

Yeah, I've been playing Diablo 3. It's fun, but from this game at least, I don't see what the big deal about this series is. I assume that Diablo 1 and 2 were very different? Actually, I did play some of the first game, I remember killing The Butcher, but I didn't get that far. I've also played a good amount of Record of Lodoss War on the Dreamcast and from what I understand that game is similar to Diablo. I really liked Record of Lodoss War, but I got to a part I just could not pass, where you talk to some enemy, and then he summons a million monsters around you and I have no idea how the hell I'm supposed to survive.

[Mr.Milky]

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

Yeah, I've been playing Diablo 3. It's fun, but from this game at least, I don't see what the big deal about this series is. I assume that Diablo 1 and 2 were very different? Actually, I did play some of the first game, I remember killing The Butcher, but I didn't get that far. I've also played a good amount of Record of Lodoss War on the Dreamcast and from what I understand that game is similar to Diablo. I really liked Record of Lodoss War, but I got to a part I just could not pass, where you talk to some enemy, and then he summons a million monsters around you and I have no idea how the hell I'm supposed to survive.

Diablo is overhyped anyway. It's a game that appeared to the hungry PC gamers back in the days, and it was refreshing, new and good. Ever since it's proclaimed as "The best RPG" trough RP elements in it are silly, to say the least. If you compare games of the same genre (Point&Click Hack&Slash aRPG) from the start (Sacred, Titan Quest, Loki, Diablo etc) you'd chose the one that offer you what you consider the best quality game. Diablo, I'm sure, won't be there.
Same could be said for the FF VII or some BioWare new games which are tremendously overhyped (DA:O better then KotOR, )

[KainFanatic192]

OK, I found out today that Square registered a domain called WarOfNosgoth.com, prompting people to speak of rumor of a new LOK game again. You can read where I found the information here:

http://www.vgleaks.com/rumor-square-...egacy-of-kain/

I don't know if it's going to be true or not, but you never know...

[coldflames]

Just heard about this, too. Hope this means good things for the series.

[Feliciano182]

Whoever has the rights to the game should do the right thing and sell it to Bioware.

Jus' my two cents !

[Dormarth]

Couldn't disagree more. Not only is Bioware just not the same company these days, I wouldn't trust them with this property even if they were. Not just for the gameplay, but their writing style just wouldn't suit LoK in my opinion.

[Feliciano182]

Originally Posted by Dormarth

Couldn't disagree more. Not only is Bioware just not the same company these days, I wouldn't trust them with this property even if they were. Not just for the gameplay, but their writing style just wouldn't suit LoK in my opinion.

Frankly, the only good gameplay we ever saw in the LOK series was in Soul Reaver and Blood Omen 2 (sometimes), whatever one might say about Bioware, they have a fantastic grasp of third-person action, as well as an innovative way to avoid using cutscenes when unnecessary, by this I mean the dialogue system of the Mass Effect series, which was brilliant and could fit LOK like a glove.

I don't think the writing is much of a concern, maybe it'd miss the shakespearen touch Hennig was so great at, but at least it wouldn't be the overdose of exposition Defiance was.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

Mass Effect's dialouge system was vastly inferior to Planescape: Torment's, which along with Black Isle, BioWare worked on. Hell, Knights of the Old Republic also had a much better dialouge system really. I really don't think that they would be good for LoK.
That reminds me, I really should contribute to the Torment sequel kickstarter...

[Dormarth]

Originally Posted by Feliciano182

Frankly, the only good gameplay we ever saw in the LOK series was in Soul Reaver and Blood Omen 2 (sometimes), whatever one might say about Bioware, they have a fantastic grasp of third-person action, as well as an innovative way to avoid using cutscenes when unnecessary, by this I mean the dialogue system of the Mass Effect series, which was brilliant and could fit LOK like a glove.

I don't think the writing is much of a concern, maybe it'd miss the shakespearen touch Hennig was so great at, but at least it wouldn't be the overdose of exposition Defiance was.

Again, I couldn't disagree more. I can't believe you suggest the use of the dialogue wheel here. Those moments in Dragon Age and Mass Effect are largely just interactive cutscenes. I would take LoK's cutscenes with properly written dialogue and action as opposed to two characters standing there awkwardly spouting lines at one another. There's nothing innovate about the dialogue wheel. It's just a new skin on an old trick that would be such a let down in place of a well crafted scene.

Plus neither DA or ME are great action games. That's not what they are meant to be either. They have some of the mechanics, but they are very light and it shows. Until Bioware make a proper third person action game then they clearly don't have a grasp on the genre.

Also, it is highly unlikely that Bioware would even get a look at LoK.

[Feliciano182]

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

Mass Effect's dialouge system was vastly inferior to Planescape: Torment's, which along with Black Isle, BioWare worked on. Hell, Knights of the Old Republic also had a much better dialouge system really. I really don't think that they would be good for LoK.
That reminds me, I really should contribute to the Torment sequel kickstarter...

I uninstalled Planescape Torment recently.

I am fairly convinced that the game probably has a good story, which I would've discovered if it wasn't spending 90% of my playing time by making me read throughout the entirety of it.

Nothing personal, but the mythification of Planescape: Torment as the best writing in videogames is simply false, the dialogue system is circular and laberynthic, you can end up asking the same questions and receiving the same answers multiple times, many lines went completely without any sort of editing, and it wastes the players' time by giving pointless descriptions of plenty of NPC's, all of which look visually identical.

This is something you will not find in games like the Mass Effect series, the dialogue system of the latter is effective because it is balanced with the combat gameplay, it adds consistent voice acting, and it doesn't burden the player with oceans of text.

What LOK needs, if turned into an RPG, is to maintain it's voice acting and writing intact, while also improving it's gameplay with depth and variety, that has always been something none of the LOK games has ever been truly capable of delivering, a truly stand-out third person gameplay experience.

Originally Posted by Dormarth

Again, I couldn't disagree more. I can't believe you suggest the use of the dialogue wheel here. Those moments in Dragon Age and Mass Effect are largely just interactive cutscenes.

So ?

Even then, they don't remove you from the experience, they are as cinematic as any cutscene while also allowing players to maintain an effective degree of interaction, you are not burdened in any way with endless hours of text, and it also ends up looking as if you were watching your favorite TV show.

Originally Posted by Dormarth

I would take LoK's cutscenes with properly written dialogue and action as opposed to two characters standing there awkwardly spouting lines at one another. There's nothing innovate about the dialogue wheel. It's just a new skin on an old trick that would be such a let down in place of a well crafted scene.

I could maybe accept that a dialogue wheel would perhaps not be the best idea for a LOK game since, in the end, molding Kain's personality isn't really the point of the story.

However, to say that the dialogue wheel is just a "new skin of an old trick", well, no one ever said gamers were the best audience !

Originally Posted by Dormarth

Plus neither DA or ME are great action games. That's not what they are meant to be either. They have some of the mechanics, but they are very light and it shows. Until Bioware make a proper third person action game then they clearly don't have a grasp on the genre.

Also, it is highly unlikely that Bioware would even get a look at LoK.

They sure are action RPG's, you shoot, hack and kill things as much as you would do in any other game, arguably even more than in any LOK game; and in an awesome manner as well.

And if you really think any of the LOK games, as they stand on gameplay, are better third person action games than any of the ME or DA series are, then............well

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

I absolutely have to disagree about Torment. Well, you make some good points. The combat is not the best, and it's true that you can run in circles with the dialouge, but the text does so much that just watching can't do. Like comparing a book to a movie, a book is vastly superior. The text can set the mood so much better, describe important things, what's going on in The Nameless One's head as he looks at things, Mass Effect can not do this. And knocking the game on only have some voice acting is not a legitimate complaint. Back then, it was still pretty rare, especially with how much dialouge is in this game. A game like Metal Gear Solid was absolutely amazing with how much voice acting it had, while nowadays you could look at it and say it's nothing special.
It had amazing writing, so easy to read, so easy to get into, but still so descriptive. And the story is really the best story you'll find in any computer/video game, but you have to go all the way to see why. Sigil and the multiverse takes a while to get used to, but it's an absolutely amazing setting once you do. Mass Effect really just doesn't compare. Not that I don't like Mass Effect, I thought it was really good (well, until it fell flat on it's face with the ending. Torment had a much more satisfying ending. One of the best I've seen in a game), but Torment is far superior still, except as I admit, the combat, and the circular dialouge you can get into. So much more than the Good choice, the Evil choice, and the Neutral choice, Torment really let you decide what kind of guy The Nameless One is.
And also:



Note to mods: Sorry, my HTML is rusty, and I can't remember how to change the size to make the picture smaller.

[Feliciano182]

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

The combat is not the best, and it's true that you can run in circles with the dialouge, but the text does so much that just watching can't do. Like comparing a book to a movie, a book is vastly superior.

No medium is inherently superior to the other, limitations and advantages exist in every single format.

The problem here actually, is that Planescape: Torment chose the wrong format; it's combat is incredibly lackluster, it's RPG mechanics are shallow, and the overall gameplay experience exists mostly outside of the combat engine and inside the text and dialogue box.

Considering how videogames are an audio-visual medium, what the hell was Chris Avellone thinking when he decided to make it a videogame and not a proper novel ?

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

The text can set the mood so much better, describe important things, what's going on in The Nameless One's head as he looks at things, Mass Effect can not do this. And knocking the game on only have some voice acting is not a legitimate complaint. Back then, it was still pretty rare, especially with how much dialouge is in this game. A game like Metal Gear Solid was absolutely amazing with how much voice acting it had, while nowadays you could look at it and say it's nothing special.

Mass Effect does it even better than Planescape: Torment, the former doesn't drown you in endless text, it gives you actual hints about who the characters are, rather than presenting repetitive green-tinted sentences describing their facial features and moods; with Mass Effect I can know something about a character by asking their stance on a subject, by hearing the tone of their voice and even seeing the expressions on their face.

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

It had amazing writing, so easy to read, so easy to get into, but still so descriptive.

Videogames are not books.

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

And the story is really the best story you'll find in any computer/video game, but you have to go all the way to see why. Sigil and the multiverse takes a while to get used to, but it's an absolutely amazing setting once you do.

Honestly, it does take more than people claim it to be, I played for almost 10 hours and it was only when I got to the undead city where things STARTED getting interesting, anything before that was just mundane, repetitive fodder; I can seriously believe you when you tell me that the story is brilliant, but boy does the game do a bad job of convincing you.

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

Mass Effect really just doesn't compare. Not that I don't like Mass Effect, I thought it was really good (well, until it fell flat on it's face with the ending. Torment had a much more satisfying ending. One of the best I've seen in a game)

I think it does to be fully honest, but then again, I haven't played Planescape: Torment to completion, I needed to rest my eyes from that sea of green letters that flooded my eyes.

And.................what in The Elder God's holy tentacles is that image supposed to convey ?

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

So did you never play any old RPGs? There was no talking in most of those, only a few games had talking, like the Lunar games. If you're saying that there was just too much text, I could understand that, but I don't see what the problem is with reading all the text in the game if you are already into RPGs.
Really, I'm not going to back down on defending Torment, and I doubt that I'm going to change your mind, so this debate is getting pretty pointless and tiresome. The picture is one I found when I was looking for a picture of The Nameless One for my avatar. Pretty much the joke is that in at least the older games that BioWare was involved in, you had a ton of choices as to what to say, but now you pretty much just get three choices that are just Good, Evil, or Neutral. I personaly thought it was really funny when I found it.

[Strands Of Night]

Ive never played either game and still found the imge funny. Escpecially how one of the Dragon Age choices is an apparently random, "I want to be a dragon," when the other two appear to be in response to an immediate threat.

In my head I see the scene... "Oh no John, goblins with bloody swords are hiding in the bushes! John.... John?

"You know Lisa, looking at that bird makes me wish I could fly. And breathe fire... Yea."

You can tell the guy is just totally nuts, and all he does is associate everything with his need to be a dragon... I mean look at his eyes. They have got that "dragon crazy" look about them. I know because Ive never met anyone who was totally dragon crazy before. And I have also never seen anyone with eyes like that. So obviously since he has both, hes dragon crazy... Or in professinal terminology, hes suffering from Draco-mania, with severe pyro delusions.


Apologies if "I want to be a dragon" is somehow relevant to that particular conversation. Its not, of course. I mean, how the hell could it fit in with "were fine," and "we need to get out of here?" But just in case Im stomping on the face of your favorite game, I did apologize.

But I dont really mean it... Because I want to be a dragon.

*edit: OMG it does fit into my goblin story! He wants to be a dragon to kill the goblins, and idly states that "it would be pretty sweet if we could burn them alive, then eat them." His moment of narrative rather than action costs John his life however, proving that even though sometimes you want something really badly, you still get murdered by goblins.*

[Feliciano182]

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

So did you never play any old RPGs? There was no talking in most of those, only a few games had talking, like the Lunar games. If you're saying that there was just too much text, I could understand that, but I don't see what the problem is with reading all the text in the game if you are already into RPGs.'

My favorite videogame is Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magicka Obscura, which actually handled dialogue and textual interaction much better than Planescape: Torment ever did; the former always had a condensed (yet still vaired) list of dialogue options, and the longest conversation would NEVER take you more than twenty minutes. In Planescape: Torment, you sometimes have more than a dozen responses (many of which have the exact same effect), unnecessary physical descriptions of many NPC's, and single conversations that could last an entire hour.

In the case of the "talking", I was saying that it's an improvement when we have voice acting, I acknowledge that in the times of Planescape: Torment it wasn't easy to get voice acting done, but it is still an improvement, and most certainly something that not a single modern RPG should be dismissing in favor of more text.

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

Really, I'm not going to back down on defending Torment, and I doubt that I'm going to change your mind, so this debate is getting pretty pointless and tiresome.

I've never forced you to reply

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

The picture is one I found when I was looking for a picture of The Nameless One for my avatar. Pretty much the joke is that in at least the older games that BioWare was involved in, you had a ton of choices as to what to say, but now you pretty much just get three choices that are just Good, Evil, or Neutral. I personaly thought it was really funny when I found it.

Not to sound like a guy without sense of humor, and I know it's just a picture, but I find the idea to be (aside from silly) dismissive, it points out "the good" aspects of old RPG's at the expense of the great leaps and achievements of modern RPG's in recent years; I know people disliked DA2, but seriously, it can't be the RPG purists' prefered "wicker man" for eternity.

[Strands Of Night]

I thought both pictures were silly, and I couldnt figure out which one was supposed to be the joke.

The Planescape pic has screen full of characters who all look the same standing on a floor that makes your brain hurt, with some silly triangles floating around.

The Dragon Age pic has a goofy eyed guy obsessed with being a dragon.

Look how far we have come! From repetitive silly, to "...the hell is that guy doing?" silly.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

They could have chosen a better picture for Torment, since that scene is actually a spoiler. There's a reason they all look the same in that picture.

[Feliciano182]

Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha

They could have chosen a better picture for Torment, since that scene is actually a spoiler. There's a reason they all look the same in that picture.

Deffinitely, it's a game that was made with an extremely tight budget.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

No, plot reasons. That guy is the main charcter. They obviously wouldn't use his sprite more than once unless there was a reason.