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| View Poll Results: What's better, Dead Men or Dog Days? | |||
| Dead Men |
   
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19 | 38.78% |
| Dog Days |
  
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23 | 46.94% |
| No idea |
  
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7 | 14.29% |
| Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#27
09-16-2010, 12:37 PM
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I had to think long and hard on this one. I'm a long time IOI fan, having engrossed myself in the Hitman franchise as well as Freedom Fighters. I was so stoked about Dead Men and I loved it despite all it's flaws. I admit it's a bad game, but I still love it for it's great qualities. The universe and the characters they crafted was the kind of stuff I had fantasized about as a budding game developer.
Dead Men boldly went to new places in many ways, ignoring industry standards (for better and for worse) and that just tickles me the right way. For me it's impossible not to love the Kane & Lynch phenomenon. I got good mileage out of the game, although I liked it mostly for it's ideas and ambitions rather than it's execution. It's flaws are so frustrating, it's a lot like loving a person who is impossible to be with. Still, as a single game it's something I'll carry with me for the rest of my life. That being said, I have to admit Dog Days is a much better game in every possible way. I love this game, I love every aspect of it. The singleplayer campaign and fragile alliance (and it's variations) are great experiences, if only not for everyone. Some people have well thought out gripes about the game (Yeah, Grievous is the first who comes to mind) and I can perfectly see why. Dog Days is a different kind of narrative, and the gameplay is a bit different. I would like to point out that Hitman: Contracts is my favourite in the series, and I've played them all extensively trying to achieve that Silent Assassin rating on the highest difficulty settings. I believe Dog Days may be the "Contracts" equivalent in the Kane & Lynch franchise, the odd one that puts the characters and narrative in a somewhat uncharacteristic place. Where Dead Men was a broader story, a globe spanning adventure we all came to love, Dog Days is a snapshot of a briefer complication. In Dead Men, Kane and Lynch were the hunters setting off to complete their own tasks. They pull heists, jailbreaks and infiltrate a jungle to achieve their ultimate goal. They are actively plotting and executing plans (unsuccessfully, but pro actively nonetheless). Dog Days is different in that it's about Kane and Lynch handling a dangerous and unexpected situation, it's not a story about their criminal scheming and deeds, it's about their intense escape from a situation that has gone completely nuts. This is Kane and Lynch being out of their element as we're used to see them, much like Agent 47 was in Contracts. Contracts did not have much of a narrative, much like Dog Days, but was a snapshot of a delirious agent 47 feverishly revisiting old memories. It completely turned the typical Hitman-narrative on it's head, Hitman games being chronologically and lightly tied together missions. Contracts was not about cloned killers and the people who seek to control them (which was the plot device driving the other three games), but Contracts was a very brief situation where the player/viewer is thrown into an ongoing drama where 47 has been shot and it ends with him getting out alive. Dog Days begins where Kane and Lynch commits a devastating mistake and it ends with them getting out alive against incredible odds. I truly enjoy this sort of narrative, as is evident in my love for Dog Days and Contracts. I also enjoy the epic narratives of Dead Men, the other Hitman games and Freedom Fighters. I don't prefer one over the other. To answer the original question however, Dog Days is a "better game" as it's gameplay is much improved over Dead Men. Fragile Alliance in Dog Days has my adrenaline flowing and heart thumping so hard the room shakes, whereas Fragile Alliance in Dead Men frustrated me like that first girlfriend I could not stand but can not ever stop loving. Both games have great stories and enjoyable presentation, and are equal but different from each other. 
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#28
09-16-2010, 01:07 PM
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I always assumed that the big breaks in the story, like the Japan-to-Havana thing, occured because a week or so took place in between them. I'll have to respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you said and leave it at that. Grievous has already explained in further detail. But I'd like to point out one thing that Grievous said- you point out all these problems with Dead Men's story, but Dog Days had a ton of flaws too, with moments that just screamed "deus ex machina". THE BROTHERHOOD IT FALLS APART
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A mortal man, with once a human heart, has become a fiend for his especial torment! - Chillingworth, The Scarlet Letter Last edited by SlashPrower; 09-16-2010 at 01:11 PM.
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#29
09-16-2010, 09:24 PM
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Is this some sort of joke, HOW IS DOG DAYS WINNING THIS?
Remember this, remember this awesome game? I played Dead Men again, pretty much everything about it beats dog days. I took these screenshots yesterday.                                   
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#30
09-16-2010, 09:41 PM
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Your ability to take screen shots of the game you like means it's better?
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"I'm tired of these monkey fighting snakes on this Monday to Friday plane" Steam: Joe The Janitor
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#31
09-16-2010, 11:39 PM
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*reached yet another level of spiritual enlightenment , that's two times in one day!* *earns trophy* ... Quote:
Well , turns out once again my 'early rant' proved to be correct , so i'll just leave it at that ... Quote:
Quote:
... Sorry but i still have to say it again , what the hell is Kane & Lynch III going to look like now ? ... The franchise can't always be That different from one another ... then again perhaps it's a bit too late , i mean look at Dead Men , Dog Days , the mobilephone version of Dead Men , the comic books , the movie with Jamie Foxx ... this franchise is like a dice , all six sides shows a different number ... Don't know how far this is going to push the sanity of the fans though , because one day , hell , Right Now we can start asking amongst ourselves ... We call ourselves fans of "Kane & Lynch" , alright , now 'which' category of these fans are we ? ... Quote:
Seriously though , there wouldn't be a brotherhood in the first place if All our views on these same games were identical , because in that case we would have been just another group of fans ... So yeah , it's a good thing to have disagreements amongst us , being a occasional fragile alliance ain't that bad , is it ? ... But i agree , i don't think we'll ever be prepared enough for Kane & Lynch III ... Quote:
Oooh darn it , i just did something messy , hope i don't get another infraction for this ... Quote:
Hell , most of the screenshots you took could go for Official ones ... Another advantage of using a PC over a PS3 , the ability to take screenshots and record stuffs ... Quote:
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#32
09-17-2010, 02:01 AM
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Those are some wickedly good screenshots. It's a shame it doesn't actually look that cool while you play it because of the wonky shooting mechanics.
As for K&L3 I think it can go either way: the stylised and clean Michael Mann look or another streamed video, though I think the streamed video look worked only because of the insane intensity of Dog Days, another game like that would be too much. A good middle ground would be a John McTiernan look (Die Hard) with a slightly cold colour spectrum and lots of lens flares. If you have never watched Die Hard just to study it's visuals I highly recommend it, it is a very attractive looking film that lends very well to a game art direction. In the commentary tracks for the Firefly series, Joss Whedon pays tribute to the look of Die Hard as an inspiration for how Firefly was lit and filled with lens flares. Gameplay wise, the Venezuela section in Dead Men was my favourite part of the game because that's where the weapons finally got powerful enough to reliably kill people quickly (rather than having to watch them jerk around in that ridiculous fashion). It was also a great jungle combat game and I felt that Kane belonged in that environment. I hope the next game will have a good mix of concrete jungle for Lynch to get stressed out with as well as actual jungle for Kane to put his veteran skills to the test. I want to see South African mercenaries in the next game!
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Gamertag: Grimwalius
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#33
09-17-2010, 02:13 AM
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I pray for some decent stealth sections ...
Alright , i know , the reason why the stealth sections in "Kane & Lynch" were always so horrid was to make a stark contrast on Agent 47's unmatched talent , afterall you can't expect two hobos to be as effective as our hitman ... But for Lynch's sake , enough ! we got it ! now , hand us over some interesting sneaky scenarios or we'll have a riot ! ...
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#34
09-17-2010, 02:02 PM
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Is it just me or is Lynch staring straight at us, smirking a tiny bit? Fourth wall= broken. Well, considering that Lynch is the patron saint of the more unhinged members of the Brotherhood (me and Grievous, mostly >.>), the fourth wall breaking makes a little more sense to me than you. *goes off to start new religion, the Church of the Brotherhood*
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A mortal man, with once a human heart, has become a fiend for his especial torment! - Chillingworth, The Scarlet Letter Last edited by SlashPrower; 09-17-2010 at 02:06 PM.
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#35
09-17-2010, 02:08 PM
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You never saw this before ? ...
 But indeed , i'm surprised that me being god , we never even had a church to act as my personnal bathroom ...
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#36
09-17-2010, 02:15 PM
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No, no no no. You're not Lynch. You're Lynch's son.
So I guess that makes you the Jesus of our religion. Except we're more Islamic than Christianity, in that you're not divine yourself, but a prophet. I'm a prophet, too. We need an equivalent to the Bible. I'll start writing it. I'm good at baseless invective and fancy word choice. You think of the name.
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A mortal man, with once a human heart, has become a fiend for his especial torment! - Chillingworth, The Scarlet Letter
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#37
09-17-2010, 02:18 PM
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Not sure about the name yet but i can already vote Dog Man as our Minister of Clapping ...
PS: by the way , you're Jenny ...
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#38
09-17-2010, 02:22 PM
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No, Jenny is MxO.
*writes*
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A mortal man, with once a human heart, has become a fiend for his especial torment! - Chillingworth, The Scarlet Letter
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#39
09-17-2010, 02:31 PM
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A Church of Clapping, n'est-ce pas? Johnson can be a choirboy.
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"You see it too? For me, it's always like this..." (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)
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#40
09-17-2010, 02:45 PM
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Bevcaur ! come here you little devil , you're our designated Priest ...
Now have fun ...
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#41
09-17-2010, 03:02 PM
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Already started, as you can tell from my sig.
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A mortal man, with once a human heart, has become a fiend for his especial torment! - Chillingworth, The Scarlet Letter
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#42
09-17-2010, 03:07 PM
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Tell me you Didn't Abandon your project to paint us a mural ... of which you started more than a week ago ...
Because if there is any delays to our beautiful painting , we'll have to swoop that pen off your hands for better uses , my dear lady ... prophet number two ...
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#43
09-17-2010, 03:14 PM
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Ah, yeah. Sorry, my drawing time was taken up by the comic I've finally started. I'll finish that soon. In the meantime, I practice my skills at writing the scriptures for organized religion.
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A mortal man, with once a human heart, has become a fiend for his especial torment! - Chillingworth, The Scarlet Letter
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#44
09-17-2010, 03:19 PM
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My ramblings can fill up at least nine hundred pages , no problem ...
So if you need any assistance , do ask ... Though you must know that i only write on the backs of female individuals ... and nine hundred pages could prove to be ... lengthy ... I've already done it a few times , never had any complaints ... This reminds me , we need to hire more maids around here ...
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#45
09-18-2010, 11:35 AM
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 really Is hopeless when it gets marked on TV Trope ...However i'll have to disagree on that last line Slash , "fans of Dead Men didn't need all that much to be happy" Because before Dead Men there was nothing to base our expectations upon , Dead Men was a game that came out of nowhere , and while it wasn't a technical masterpiece , what it had to offer was more than what we could expect from a simple video game , and that's where our satisfaction was met ... Dog Days , which is as far as i'm aware Kane & Lynch 2 , it is therefor suppose to built itself from the foundation of Dead Men , which means that we need not only a Higher level of satisfaction , but to keep at least that same level of unexpectation and satisfaction we were granted with Dead Men ... And that's where the whole 'broken base' appeared , some say Dog Days did exceeded the level of satisfaction set by Dead Men , others says it barely reached that level , and the rest says it's just not comparable , and questions in return if we can even consider Dog Days a 'sequel' to Dead men ... So you can't exactly call that a "pretty amazing" consequence , can you ? i mean what happened it's only fair ...
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"You last visited: 06-17-2011 at 04:43 PM" I never expected that i had to come back precisely two years later to share more grievances ...
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#46
08-15-2012, 02:30 AM
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Finally. After 2 years, I can make a decision . I vote Dead Men.
Let's just see how Coop mode worked . You can find Dog Days coop is really nothing special and not fun . When your teammate down, it doesn't show you clear hint make you know your teammate down. That's annoying me. (Especially PC only had buggy hell online coop  )But Dead Men's coop is very enjoyable and it tell us how about Lynch's point view . It also mean Dead Men's coop still try to tell us a little story. but Dog Days' ? Nothing different between Lynch and Kane . What a poor design . (Meh... Dog Days dev never told us how special coop mode in game. I got it! If KL3 dev do the same thing like Dog Days then we will know......) On the other hand , I thought IO didn't have time to finish both game and the Glacier 1 was too old to both game. Let's hope KL3 will be successfully. Then IO uses Glacier 2 to remaster Dead Men & Dog Days. (The important thing is give us uncut&good PC version too.  )
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Square Enix force Hitman to become CoD, AC sreies. I lost interest to the future of Hitman franchise. Unless Square Enix let IO to bring Kane & Lynch 3 back . Last edited by jam13; 08-15-2012 at 02:49 AM.
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#47
08-17-2012, 09:22 AM
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the lag in KL2 dog days is pretty awful. Co-op with my friend is almost unplayable due to network stuttering and latency.
Dead Men had none of these issues, although the style and visuals are much blander - even on max settings. KL2 is vastly superior to KL1 simply because the shooting mechanics have been tightened up, the visuals are better, and it at least has a cohesive theme throughout. You're two guys on the run. KL1 felt all over the place with prison breaks, bank robberies, cuban jungle warfare, it was like they took every cliche they could find and made a level out of it. I think they will make a KL3 and I think it will be set in South America.
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#48
08-27-2012, 02:59 PM
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Let's compare both
..........................................DM.......................................................DD 1. Dialogs..............................+.........................................................+ 2. OST..................................+.........................................................- 3. Control..............................-..........................................................+ 4. Co-oP (online).....................- ........................................................+ 5. AI ................................... -..........................................................+ 6. Entertaining damage system . - ....................................................... - DD wins
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#50
11-12-2012, 01:23 PM
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I thought both were both very good, but Dog Days takes the bone (pun intended) purely because of its online co-op. Dead Men would have had more playtime in it if it had that sole additional feature IMO.
Played through Dog Days about 9 - 10 times, 7 - 8 of those with the same person in co-op. Kane and Lynch 2 at Christmas has become an annual thing.
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