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  #51  
Old 08-09-2012, 12:08 PM
sgg847 sgg847 is offline
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Originally Posted by frank fuchs View Post
If you want that, couldn't you just play basically any other FPS/TPS?

Love to everyone.
i would if i could but i don't play with "fps" and good tps is scarcity today.
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  #52  
Old 08-09-2012, 02:57 PM
frank fuchs frank fuchs is offline
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i would if i could but i don't play with "fps" and good tps is scarcity today.
I'm not actually a huge consumer of those either... Freedom Fighters was probably the last one I completed.
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  #53  
Old 08-09-2012, 07:57 PM
RaulO4 RaulO4 is offline
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Yes this is what I've been getting at!

I don't mind the new features and I'm excited to try them out, but I want to do my blind run first because that's my only chance to even do a blind run! You can't do a blind run after beating the game.
And its not really blind if you have a HUd that tells you whos looking at you and when you safe or not
...the hud even tells you when to start being caution... that is what i want gone and right the only info we have is that purist is the only mode that removes it
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  #54  
Old 08-10-2012, 02:03 AM
sgg847 sgg847 is offline
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Originally Posted by frank fuchs View Post
I'm not actually a huge consumer of those either... Freedom Fighters was probably the last one I completed.
Because Freedom Fighters were from makers of Hitman 2, not creators of blood money. Those Mario brothers knew how need to use wrench, even in fight. I would say it is the best example of linearity with a purpose!
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  #55  
Old 08-10-2012, 05:39 AM
Nick@IO Nick@IO is offline
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So, I'm seeing a lot of feedback in this thread which is great. I'm relaying your concerns and thoughts back to the gameplay guys. As of right now, nothing is totally locked and I don't know all the reasons for all decisions that are made.

I can tell you that purist mode is extremely hard to play right now. You may feel it's the "right" way to play the game but remember that you will have no visual assists of any kind. That means blundering around the maps with no clue as to where to go, who people are, when the AI is about to detect you, how much ammo you have in your gun, etc. That's not easy and it will very likely be extremely frustrating to play - we test these things here on people all the time so it's not like we just make up stuff and stick to it.

But, again, I'll let the guys know that there's a very core group of people who want to have their butts handed to them by the game from the beginning.
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  #56  
Old 08-10-2012, 06:41 AM
Bateson IS 47 Bateson IS 47 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
As of right now, nothing is totally locked
Good. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
I can tell you that purist mode is extremely hard to play right now.
Keeps getting better.

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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
no visual assists of any kind.
Fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
That means blundering around the maps with no clue as to where to go
Never liked the idea of objective markers, or arrows anyway. I'll find out for myself where to go within the level.

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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
who people are
Provided you have a picture of your target, a description, or some way to find out who your target is within the level then this sounds brilliant.

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when the AI is about to detect you
I could always look for myself who's around me as opposed to relying on the conviction style white/red fading arrow.

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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
how much ammo you have in your gun
If I ever fire my gun in a hitman game then it tends to be to cause an accident, at which point I won't be needing more than 1, or maybe at a push 2 bullets per level anyway

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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
That's not easy
I'm glad it's not easy, I want a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
and it will very likely be extremely frustrating to play - we test these things here on people all the time so it's not like we just make up stuff and stick to it.

But, again, I'll let the guys know that there's a very core group of people who want to have their butts handed to them by the game from the beginning.
Thanks. I'm not, and I don't think anyone here is saying that they're the best most awesome 47 ever. It's just that removing every single one of those assists that you described sounds like a hell of a lot of fun to me, and would make me enjoy the game tenfold.

Yes I'll probably get my butt handed to me, but so what? I'd rather that than ace a level without putting any thought or effort in.

So many devs these days are so concerned that people reach the credits that they forget what makes games fun in the first place. A challenge.

The previous titles have given me as such, and I've enjoyed them thoroughly, played them over and over, am a huge fan of the Hitman series and do not want to see it plummet into mediocrity.
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  #57  
Old 08-10-2012, 10:46 AM
Trzebiat Trzebiat is offline
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Nick@IO, how about making every single part of HUD available to turn it off/on separately? By doing that you will make everyone pleased even if purist mode will be locked. And especially if purist mode is as hard as you tell. All parts of HUD could be turned on by default. Then the normal players can play the game with no worries they get not enough help from the game on the lower difficulties, but making the option to turned them off would be great for all players who want a bigger challenge and all who want to play the game first time on purist difficulty. It would be really great to give some more choice to players how many help they want on the screen, not only by choosing the difficulty. And by that it would be nice to not know the actual score during the level by turning off that part of HUD and get to know the rating at the end of the level.
I think most of the players who want play purist mode as first playthrough will agree that making option to turn off different parts of HUD will be much better than unlocking purist mode at start, and also agree that purist mode could remain locked then.
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  #58  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:25 AM
sgg847 sgg847 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bateson IS 47 View Post
It's just that removing every single one of those assists that you described sounds like a hell of a lot of fun to me, and would make me enjoy the game tenfold.
If you think that by removing a D-Pad menu you will get a lot of fun then I will advise to you and all your like-minded persons (aka hardcores) to read any psychology book. It is more useful than writing such nonsense.
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  #59  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:33 AM
xChupa xChupa is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
So, I'm seeing a lot of feedback in this thread which is great. I'm relaying your concerns and thoughts back to the gameplay guys. As of right now, nothing is totally locked and I don't know all the reasons for all decisions that are made.

I can tell you that purist mode is extremely hard to play right now. You may feel it's the "right" way to play the game but remember that you will have no visual assists of any kind. That means blundering around the maps with no clue as to where to go, who people are, when the AI is about to detect you, how much ammo you have in your gun, etc. That's not easy and it will very likely be extremely frustrating to play - we test these things here on people all the time so it's not like we just make up stuff and stick to it.

But, again, I'll let the guys know that there's a very core group of people who want to have their butts handed to them by the game from the beginning.
Thank your for the reply!!!
Purist Mode does indeed sound very difficult, but getting my butt handed to me sounds like heaven!
Although, not having access to some of the button prompts (such as any sort of Quick Time Event) may make the mode TOO hard for a first playthrough...
So, how about, if Purist isn't unlocked from the beginning, then instead have the option to separately turn off every feature of the HUD and instinct.
That way we can leave on some of the basic features that would be necessary for a first playthrough. If that is the case then Purist could remain an unlock for beating the game.

It's not necessarily Purist itself that I need to play for the first time, it's the concept of Purist. I want to play the game without any major assists. Basic features such as button prompts are things that I think I will probably need on my first playthrough, but here's a list of things I don't want on my first playthrough, to give you guys an idea of possible things to make toggleable in the menus:
1) People being highlighted, including guards, targets, etc (Instinct feature)
2) Predicted paths of guards (Instinct feature)
2a) Just any feature of Instinct in general should be togglable
3) Kill options highlighted (Not sure if this is Instinct or HUD)
4) "SUSPICIOUS", "DETECTED", etc warnings popping up (HUD feature)
5) Any sort of score or points showing up on screen (HUD feature)
6) Mini map (HUD feature)
7) Ammo/equipped weapon (HUD feature)
8) Button prompts (HUD feature) - this is something I would leave on for my first playthrough, but perhaps I would want to turn it off for a second playthrough, or possibly even halfway through my first.
9) Any other part of the HUD... should all be able to be toggled on or off

It's good to know that you're taking our thoughts into consideration
Too many developers these days don't even interact with their community.

Last edited by xChupa; 08-10-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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  #60  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:36 PM
RaulO4 RaulO4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
So, I'm seeing a lot of feedback in this thread which is great. I'm relaying your concerns and thoughts back to the gameplay guys. As of right now, nothing is totally locked and I don't know all the reasons for all decisions that are made.

I can tell you that purist mode is extremely hard to play right now. You may feel it's the "right" way to play the game but remember that you will have no visual assists of any kind. That means blundering around the maps with no clue as to where to go, who people are, when the AI is about to detect you, how much ammo you have in your gun, etc. That's not easy and it will very likely be extremely frustrating to play - we test these things here on people all the time so it's not like we just make up stuff and stick to it.

But, again, I'll let the guys know that there's a very core group of people who want to have their butts handed to them by the game from the beginning.
...Nick, that is the thing I dont want to know if the AI is looking at me or if I'm about to get Spotted, This is a stealth game and i like the Tension....all you reason that you just gave will make me have more fun.....

Nick again,the HUD (Caution/Safe) and the "Who is looking at you" has to have an option to be remove, those are the big problem
since instinct can be shut off please make those an option too

I hope that the Team unlock purist mode, and just have a Big Warning signs that its for the HC...

and thx for the replay Nick
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  #61  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:59 PM
RaulO4 RaulO4 is offline
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Originally Posted by xChupa View Post
Thank your for the reply!!!
Purist Mode does indeed sound very difficult, but getting my butt handed to me sounds like heaven!
Although, not having access to some of the button prompts (such as any sort of Quick Time Event) may make the mode TOO hard for a first playthrough...
So, how about, if Purist isn't unlocked from the beginning, then instead have the option to separately turn off every feature of the HUD and instinct.
That way we can leave on some of the basic features that would be necessary for a first playthrough. If that is the case then Purist could remain an unlock for beating the game.

It's not necessarily Purist itself that I need to play for the first time, it's the concept of Purist. I want to play the game without any major assists. Basic features such as button prompts are things that I think I will probably need on my first playthrough, but here's a list of things I don't want on my first playthrough, to give you guys an idea of possible things to make toggleable in the menus:
1) People being highlighted, including guards, targets, etc (Instinct feature)
2) Predicted paths of guards (Instinct feature)
2a) Just any feature of Instinct in general should be togglable
3) Kill options highlighted (Not sure if this is Instinct or HUD)
4) "SUSPICIOUS", "DETECTED", etc warnings popping up (HUD feature)
5) Any sort of score or points showing up on screen (HUD feature)
6) Mini map (HUD feature)
7) Ammo/equipped weapon (HUD feature)
8) Button prompts (HUD feature) - this is something I would leave on for my first playthrough, but perhaps I would want to turn it off for a second playthrough, or possibly even halfway through my first.
9) Any other part of the HUD... should all be able to be toggled on or off

It's good to know that you're taking our thoughts into consideration
Too many developers these days don't even interact with their community.
..yea i agree, (instinct can be shut off)
HUD options is what the games needs rather than have purist unlock
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  #62  
Old 08-10-2012, 03:25 PM
tbcdlad tbcdlad is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
So, I'm seeing a lot of feedback in this thread which is great. I'm relaying your concerns and thoughts back to the gameplay guys. As of right now, nothing is totally locked and I don't know all the reasons for all decisions that are made.

I can tell you that purist mode is extremely hard to play right now. You may feel it's the "right" way to play the game but remember that you will have no visual assists of any kind. That means blundering around the maps with no clue as to where to go, who people are, when the AI is about to detect you, how much ammo you have in your gun, etc. That's not easy and it will very likely be extremely frustrating to play - we test these things here on people all the time so it's not like we just make up stuff and stick to it.

But, again, I'll let the guys know that there's a very core group of people who want to have their butts handed to them by the game from the beginning.
This is why I love the Hitman games. Thanks Nick.
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  #63  
Old 08-10-2012, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sgg847 View Post
If you think that by removing a D-Pad menu you will get a lot of fun then I will advise to you and all your like-minded persons (aka hardcores) to read any psychology book. It is more useful than writing such nonsense.
I'm busy now. Can I ignore you some other time?
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  #64  
Old 08-10-2012, 05:45 PM
EpicMcDude EpicMcDude is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
As of right now, nothing is totally locked
Hello Nick,

Since nothing is locked, does that include voice actors? Because by the gods man, you can't let that VA get the role for 47! If you can't bring Bateson back, please choose another person that sounds older, not some generic normal pitch douch you'd find in generic action summer movies. His voice is so out of place in 47's body.

Speaking from gamer to gamer, you can't possibly concur on having 47's voice like that can you? Be honest man, it's awful and I think you know it.
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  #65  
Old 08-10-2012, 06:02 PM
tbcdlad tbcdlad is offline
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Originally Posted by xChupa View Post
Thank your for the reply!!!
Purist Mode does indeed sound very difficult, but getting my butt handed to me sounds like heaven!
Although, not having access to some of the button prompts (such as any sort of Quick Time Event) may make the mode TOO hard for a first playthrough...
So, how about, if Purist isn't unlocked from the beginning, then instead have the option to separately turn off every feature of the HUD and instinct.
That way we can leave on some of the basic features that would be necessary for a first playthrough. If that is the case then Purist could remain an unlock for beating the game.

It's not necessarily Purist itself that I need to play for the first time, it's the concept of Purist. I want to play the game without any major assists. Basic features such as button prompts are things that I think I will probably need on my first playthrough, but here's a list of things I don't want on my first playthrough, to give you guys an idea of possible things to make toggleable in the menus:
1) People being highlighted, including guards, targets, etc (Instinct feature)
2) Predicted paths of guards (Instinct feature)
2a) Just any feature of Instinct in general should be togglable
3) Kill options highlighted (Not sure if this is Instinct or HUD)
4) "SUSPICIOUS", "DETECTED", etc warnings popping up (HUD feature)
5) Any sort of score or points showing up on screen (HUD feature)
6) Mini map (HUD feature)
7) Ammo/equipped weapon (HUD feature)
8) Button prompts (HUD feature) - this is something I would leave on for my first playthrough, but perhaps I would want to turn it off for a second playthrough, or possibly even halfway through my first.
9) Any other part of the HUD... should all be able to be toggled on or off

It's good to know that you're taking our thoughts into consideration
Too many developers these days don't even interact with their community.
The features of instinct can be turned off, but I do agree with what else you said. It would be nice if all of the elements of the hud could be disabled as well.
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  #66  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:48 PM
sgg847 sgg847 is offline
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Originally Posted by tbcdlad View Post
The features of instinct can be turned off, but I do agree with what else you said. It would be nice if all of the elements of the hud could be disabled as well.
Everyone is able to refuse from pressing a trigger, for everything else there is MasterCard.
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  #67  
Old 08-12-2012, 11:23 PM
Nick@IO Nick@IO is offline
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It seems voicing your concern helps from time to time. I've just heard back from the team that purist mode is now designed to be unlocked from the get go. now, unless something critical happens, I feel confident that you can all get your butts handed to you from the first playthrough.
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  #68  
Old 08-13-2012, 12:05 AM
Platinumoxicity Platinumoxicity is offline
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It seems voicing your concern helps from time to time. I've just heard back from the team that purist mode is now designed to be unlocked from the get go. now, unless something critical happens, I feel confident that you can all get your butts handed to you from the first playthrough.
I wish Eidos Montréal would do this too. Then again, that would mean that there would need to actually be some information about Thief 4 to criticize. The lack of any information has been criticized, but nobody has responded to that feedback.

This is how game development should work. The developers don't know whether some gameplay mechanic works or is popular. They can gather opinions from discussions about the subject, or do beta testing. Feedback is never bad, and it always helps in making a better game. If everything is kept secret and under wraps, overconfident idiot designers could produce a dysfunctional mess. And releasing patches to fix things doesn't pay the bills, so why not do like Ubisoft does and just abandon every project right after release? -That's how games die.
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  #69  
Old 08-13-2012, 12:50 AM
xChupa xChupa is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
It seems voicing your concern helps from time to time. I've just heard back from the team that purist mode is now designed to be unlocked from the get go. now, unless something critical happens, I feel confident that you can all get your butts handed to you from the first playthrough.
That's great news!

I've never actually seen developers interact with their community in this way!
This is awesome, and you guys are awesome

Thanks Nick.
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  #70  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:28 AM
Bateson IS 47 Bateson IS 47 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
It seems voicing your concern helps from time to time. I've just heard back from the team that purist mode is now designed to be unlocked from the get go. now, unless something critical happens, I feel confident that you can all get your butts handed to you from the first playthrough.
Thanks for your efforts. It's always a good sign when community feedback shapes the final form of a game.

Now if we could just get Bateson...
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  #71  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:57 AM
Nick@IO Nick@IO is offline
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Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity View Post
I wish Eidos Montréal would do this too. Then again, that would mean that there would need to actually be some information about Thief 4 to criticize. The lack of any information has been criticized, but nobody has responded to that feedback.

This is how game development should work. The developers don't know whether some gameplay mechanic works or is popular. They can gather opinions from discussions about the subject, or do beta testing. Feedback is never bad, and it always helps in making a better game. If everything is kept secret and under wraps, overconfident idiot designers could produce a dysfunctional mess. And releasing patches to fix things doesn't pay the bills, so why not do like Ubisoft does and just abandon every project right after release? -That's how games die.
Well, to be honest, that rarely takes place on a large scale. Most developers and publishers take a lot of feedback from users - both using forums such as these as well as by bringing in testers once the game is in a playable state.

But it's important to remember that while fan feedback is extremely important it's also often a slippery slope of feature creep or incompatibility where users want X, Y and Z but without fully knowing whether all features work well together. One thing is theory, another is practice.

So, some devs use fan feedback a lot, others less but I doubt people just ignore feedback. That would certainly be stupid, yes.
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  #72  
Old 08-13-2012, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick@IO View Post
It seems voicing your concern helps from time to time. I've just heard back from the team that purist mode is now designed to be unlocked from the get go. now, unless something critical happens, I feel confident that you can all get your butts handed to you from the first playthrough.
Excellent news!
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  #73  
Old 08-13-2012, 07:22 AM
Platinumoxicity Platinumoxicity is offline
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But it's important to remember that while fan feedback is extremely important it's also often a slippery slope of feature creep or incompatibility where users want X, Y and Z but without fully knowing whether all features work well together. One thing is theory, another is practice.
Well it's only a slippery slope if you submit completely to fan control and apply feedback-based adjustments to everything. It works fine with fixing flaws that are 100% flaws.

For example, Rockstar released a patch for Max Payne 3 that gave the option to disable mouse acceleration because it's a feature thats only function in any game ever is to cripple the control and ruin the gameplay. It's still not clear why they included hard-coded mouse acceleration with no option to disable it in the first place, since it absolutely is an additional feature, not some missing feature that was overlooked. But the main thing is that it was fixed because of negative feedback.

As an example for the opposite, Ubisoft included that same "feature" in Assassin's Creed 2. Based on the overwhelming negative feedback, they flatout stated that AC3 will not support PC mouse control at all, exactly because of that additionl feature. They got negative feedback on a flaw in a previous instalment, and based on that they decided to go out of their way to preserve the flaws that people explicitly criticized, in the next instalment.
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  #74  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:56 PM
RaulO4 RaulO4 is offline
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....with the bad news i got from my other post....this Balance my day of HM news
great news, please dont change it
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  #75  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:57 PM
RaduBox RaduBox is offline
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omg this is *** bull for people like me who have played all the hitman games i want purist mode from the start we should be allowed to play through the game on what ever difficulty we want the game comes out in november i pray to god you guys change it because thats bull.
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