Re: That's It I've Had It

[ghostlion88]

I wanted to reply to Graz'zt's thread, about how they made 6 TR games. (I hate when threads get closed & locked on the internet)

I've always been a die hard LOK fan, and can't wait till another possible one gets made (at the same time, I would prefer Hennig and the LOK producers are in the exact right frame of mind to make another installment, all motivated and passionate, not forcing themselves to work on it, so that it is as good as its predecessors. That means NO RUSH! Your minds need to rest, the fans understand :I )

That said, Tomb Raider series aren't bad games, and especially the recent releases are very good. And I know a lot of people didn't like Tomb Raider Underworld, but it is by far easily my favorite TR game so far, and one of my favorite games ever.

Tomb Raider Underworld is VERY Legacy of Kain-like in my opinion. Sure it doesn't have vampires, but there's something about the look, feel and plot that somehow pulses with a similar energy. You've got the icy blue underworld-hell like levels, similar to the purgatory or whatever talked about in Celtic lore. You've got thralls guarding the deep dark dungeon-like caverns, and Lara ends up wielding an ultra-powerful weapon.

In fact I've found that while I'm waiting for a new LOK game, TR series, and especially Underworld have helped to fill my lust for that sense of wonder.

My only complaint with TR series is that it feels too empty; I wish there were more enemies throughout the levels, and more monster enemies. Legend was severely lacking in ghouls, something both Underworld and Anniversary made up for quite well. But more enemies in general would be awesome, like how populated Guardian of Light was.

Sorry to the moderators if this thread is out of place here in the LOK forums. Perhaps I should have sent a PM to Graz'zt recommending they take a second look at TR in case they totally blew it off. I just wanted to point out that the quality of TR Underworld's plot, atmosphere and gameplay felt on par with the Kain games.

I feel for you Graz'zt. I yearn for more LOK, especially an HD collection or something. But be sure to give Lara a chance! Her games might grow on you. I know they have done so for me.

[TombReaver]

One look at my username is enough to see my love for both series.

I believe that the major problem of the Tomb Raider games, from a LoK fan's perspective, is that it is taking the time away from Crystal Dynamics that could be spent working on a new LoK game.

I agree with you about Underworld being very good (albeit shipping with several potentially game-breaking bugs which require starting the game afresh - twice in my playthrough ) and there are several easter eggs in each of the installments alluding to Crystal's previous work on the LoK series (Kain's portrait in Croft Manor, unlockable Reaver weapon in Legend, costumes bearing Raziel's/Kain's emblems etc, and the character pack for Guardian of Light). I like to think that they are more than just fan-service, and it's Crystal hinting that they want to move on with the series too: though I am aware that could also just be a massive dollop of wishful thinking.

Essentially, (though at the risk of repeating myself from other threads) Tomb Raider Legend was the Tomb Raider game I had always wanted to play: responsive controls; better puzzles than find key, use key, repeat; and importantly, as the first in the series it hadn't been made to conform to the previous series's die-hard fans. As such, Lara had actual interactions between characters with wit and showed herself to be very human; rather than the cool, emotionally-stale robot with pointed boobs that she had been under Core Design (it was the 90s, it was okay under Core though). Even Underworld to some extent had been poisoned by responding to fan pressure for her to retain her repressed state IMO. The final fight of Underworld felt lifted from Soul Reaver, although the two generations of hardware obviously made a huge impression. Playing through each game, you can sense LoK-DNA everywhere: it's muted, but it's there. Does Natla look more 'Hylden'-ish now?

I feel some of the emptiness described in OP's post is the lack of rich interaction between characters that we've seen in the LoK games. Legend was some of the way there, even without the creative lead of Hennig (and the other main writer on Soul Reaver, whose name escapes me for the moment). The main problem was that the mythology of Tomb Raider was in no way as rich and nuanced as the LoK mythos; which is understandable given that each game stood as a complete episode, unlike LoK where each game is linked. The first Crystal trilogy again attempted to fix this, creating an arc spanning those game: so if you like the way in which LoK games never really had a resolution, you'd have a blast playing for that alone...

I am so, so happy that Tomb Raider is being completely rebooted with Lara's emotions at the core. I have every faith in Crystal when it comes to rebooting series, due to the excellent work on Legend and subsequent games. As such I hope that the rumour from a few months ago is true about a LoK reboot and wait (seemingly for eternity) with baited breath and a wallet ready to be emptied. I think a reboot is necessary rather than a continuation, else it'll be Legacy of Kain Forever, but Kain is no Duke. He deserves better. Please, please, PLEASE show us what Kain (and Raziel, why the Spectral Realm not) can do on next-gen software.

One last tidbit. Tomb Raider (2013) is apparently a pervasive open world, with new routes opening up as Lara gains equipment (walls become scalable with the pickaxe, the bow can be used to cut ropes to create bridges etc). The new Tomb Raider is the old Soul Reaver 1.

TL;DR
Crystal have done a sterling job with the Tomb Raider games, which are excellent games (with the exception of bugs - which is really more of a Eidos, time-constraint thing), well worth a look, if only to spot which bits owe themselves to LoK.

[The Hylden]

Originally Posted by ghostlion88

I wanted to reply to Graz'zt's thread, about how they made 6 TR games. (I hate when threads get closed & locked on the internet)

Threads get closed for good reasons. His thread had a tone that wasn't going anywhere but to bash Tomb Raider games and to vent frustration.