Taffers' Tavern - WELCOME / INTRODUCTIONS - & General CHAT

[JamesPup]

The arrows are not real and make the game fake. Moss arrows are too weird and it would have been sneaking moss padding along and laying it down in places. Its like you created a shortcut in the process of what would have been done. I’d think it to be fun to play the game with normal arrows and that you had to do what someone would have done in real life as opposed to using a fake arrow. It takes away from the real thing.

Garrett’s motivation is not complete. I feel left out of how anyone would be able to be a thief there whole life and still do it. He has like no friends and no girlfriends and its tough to feel like he’d ever of kept doing it. Also how would he not get ratted out by merchants, towns people who do see him or his land lord. People would have tired of him and recognized him and pointed him out. Does he ever go to jail and is there one? What about court and people in power of the town like a police chief and a judge. Where are the other thief’s in the game and wouldn’t he work with one or get ratted out by one. I just think of how he would be depressed and sad and need people to keep him up at times. No one could go there whole life without wanting friends and companionship.

Fantasy creatures like undead and monsters are not as fun as real humans and real animals. The made up ones are not believable but the robots and cyborg people were fun. I liked seeing what could of happened come to life with The Mechanists. I didn’t like the weird Pagan fake creatures as much as real ones and they could have trained real animals as pets.

Great series and I still love the arrows and the fantasy creatures. I just keep imagining how it would be if there was no fantasy and how tough and fun that game would be. It could be a game that is as real as you can get it like Thief and could be during the same time period too. It would be just as fun and challenging.

[Viktoria]

Welcome to ClubbedToDeath and JamesPup.

[JamesPup]

Hi Viktoria

Make it easier to place unconcious bodies and corpses. If you try to drop one near a wall it will not let you and it has to have perfect spacing. Why not have it that you can and a folding option, where you can wrap the body up into a small bundle. It is that after dropping them they just lay out on the floor and thats it rate now. Have it so you can tuck them away, so now you can use those smaller hiding places for your bodies.

In the 3rd game there is the mission called overlook grounds and you enter it by right clicking on the glyph near the row boat in the dock part of town. The problem is that I forgot about right clicking it and didn't know what to do and died a few times till I was able to figure it out. I assumed that a mission passage is what it was and tryed to pass through it and thought it would just take me there but you had to right click it on the glyph. It was not much a problem but I'm sure some people didn't save and was caught jumping or walking into the row boat and died or was caught. For this mission it could have just taken you to the mission menu when you were at a good distance of the row boat.

[Moreth]

Welcome to ClubbedToDeath and JamesPup as well.

JamesPup, I will politely (because I was told to be) disagree with you somewhat. The various arrows and tools being one point. Thief, from my perspective, is a game based in a world where "magic" exists and both works for and against technology at times. In my opinion, not that it's the money you pay for it, is that we (Thieves) are required to use any advantage we can to accomplish a given job. If that requires we have an alchemist make a fire arrow because Puppets in an orphanage freak us the %$#@ out, then I'd easily pay the money. If I had to be the footpad or assassin for the Woodies to have Diana make a half dozen moss arrows for me, then chances are someone she dislikes will have a horrible accident most likely involving tripping and falling on a dagger .... repeatedly. I agree these and other items should be ALOT rarer and insanely expensive. This isn't an exact medieval recreation though so there should be some leeway.

As for motivations, the beauty of the game to me is that players generally decide the motives and motivation of Garrett. "Your" Garrett will play nothing like mine or anyone others.

As for consequences, I completely agree with you. Every moral choice should come with equivalent repercussions. The more guards I kill or knock out should arouse increasing attention and lethality from that sect. That goes for every faction (don't cross the Woodsies). I don't think it should be a matter of camping or repetitive action to redeem oneself. i.e. You killed my brother I'm going be your friend because you killed a bazillion rust beetles. Simply put, in my opinion, the higher the threat the more fun the game.

Glad to see you speaking out on what you think, friend. Stay ye safe to shadow.


>quick edit> I also disagree with you on placing bodies. It should be insanely difficult to hide a body. They do not fold up easily and as anyone who's tried move someone whose unconscious will tell you, it's not exactly a stealth easy task. If you pop someone in a street, then jmo you get what you deserve while trying to drag a two hundred pound guard wearing 75 pounds of metal armor and ten to twenty pounds of weaponage quietly to a dark corner stealthily. <grin>

-m-

Inconsistent? Absolutely --- situational ethics require it!

[Moreth]

Oh and one quick note regarding my particular playstyle. I personally don't cross Woodsies for very simple reasons. First as a Thief, I dislike the woods. Shadows come from both light and dark. The woods would ok if there were periodic torches and lanterns. But apparently snakes, spiders, wolves, bears, and the like don't need them. Second, I have yet to steal anything in the woods that I could sell in the city, besides, failing a pickpocket roll with a bear simply sucks.

I freely admit I am an urban player. I've never been good at bribing angry animals or angry Woodsies. One last thing, I'm rather go camping in Shalebridge with Chuckie watching my back than cross Diana a little bit. Tried that once, and let's just say it was unprofitable.

-m-

<Yes I suck at being an elf>

Recent quote I saw "I never plan my day. People start throwing around the word "Premeditation" when I do!"

[joseywales1027]

I like your posts Moreth, esp the quote on the last one. On the issue of hiding bodies, I agree that it should be somewhat difficult. Yet there were time when I was in a certain mood, when I would take the bodies of servants or guards that I had knocked out and try to position them in I guess compromising positions, so that, in my mind they would wake up and think 'oh no....what did I do last night'?

It was sometimes annoying trying to do that or just hide a body in general, and have Garrett keep going unh-unh.

[Moreth]

[QUOTE=joseywales1027; Yet there were time when I was in a certain mood, when I would take the bodies of servants or guards that I had knocked out and try to position them in I guess compromising positions, so that, in my mind they would wake up and think 'oh no....what did I do last night'?

It was sometimes annoying trying to do that or just hide a body in general, and have Garrett keep going unh-unh.[/QUOTE]

LOL I completely understand ... At times in heavy guard areas I've gotten bored and tried to see how big of a pile of corpses I could make. I think my best was around ten or eleven before I got tired of carrying them back and decided to go ahead and finish up.

-m-

I love famous Thieves... they make my job so much easier!

[zombie32]

Hi James Pup. I think I disagree with your idea that Thief games ought to mimic reality. I have reality up to my armpits in everyday life and, for the most part, reality sucks. Really. Ever watched the six-o'clock news? Beatings, stabbings, drive-by shootings, wars, suicide bombers, baseball, global warming, basketball, unemployment, gay marriage, Democrats--you get the idea. Oh, how I would love to toss a couple of frog-beast eggs into my manager's office! I think people play video games for the same reason others read Hairy Potter novels or go to movies. It is to escape reality, not to engage in it.

[george12123]

Hello JamesPup nice to see another new face on the forum.
But sadly i now have to pick apart your post(s) like a vulture.

Why not have the videos in between chapters and all be replayable, as unlockable items.

There are cutscenes in between missions (my favourites being the cutscenes of Sabotage at Soulforge) and missions are replayable just save at the start of the mission and load it up.

The arrows are not real and make the game fake.

The game is not supposed to be set in the real world, in this world there are magical things. If you dont like using the arrows then don't. NB, fire arrows do exist in the real world by covering the arrow head in some gun powder and lighting a fuse.

He has like no friends and no girlfriends and its tough to feel like he’d ever of kept doing it.

Garrett is a natural loner, he dislikes social life. And for the point of a girlfriend then yes he did have one technicly but she was killed shooting vines out of her arms at robots built by a maniac who sounded like droopy dog.

Does he ever go to jail and is there one? What about court and people in power of the town like a police chief and a judge.

If he got caught and sent to jail then it would defeat the purpose of him being a master thief, he supposed to not get caught. The person in charge of the city is at war, and the sherrif was killed and one of his lieutenants was arested for theft.

Fantasy creatures like undead and monsters are not as fun as real humans and real animals.

This is a world of magic and other things that were created by the trickster (for example Viktoria).

The made up ones are not believable but the robots and cyborg people were fun.

Yes the mechanist robots were fun, and could you elaborate on cyborg people.

Anyway in conclusion the game is not set in the real world or in a world that is as real as our. In the thief world magic exists, gods exist, life forms which are not in the real world exist and lastly an eye which is made of clockwork that not only enables the person to see but to also enhance their distance vision to work exists.

The world has already been made and the stage has been set for Garrett to shoot that moss arrow onto that tile floor then fire a water arrow at the torch and then knock out the guard stumbling around in the dark. And the builder shalt smiteth the beasts of the trickster and striketh down the heretic for those who shalt worship the builder may cometh forth and take his blessing and thou shalt live forever.

[pwyll]

I want to be the God of Shadows once again! I want to steal and kill silently, to be the ultimate invisible predator. I want to play the antagonist. I want to look the normal people from above at night and smile mischievously knowing that they live only because of my will! Give me a game where I can be a stealthy, badass, godlike, supreme being of darkness.

[AlexOfSpades]

Originally Posted by pwyll

I want to be the God of Shadows once again! I want to steal and kill silently, to be the ultimate invisible predator. I want to play the antagonist. I want to look the normal people from above at night and smile mischievously knowing that they live only because of my will! Give me a game where I can be a stealthy, badass, godlike, supreme being of darkness.

I recommend a therapist and a hug.

[pwyll]

Originally Posted by AlexOfSpades

I recommend a therapist and a hug.

Well said and I think you may be right. Especially about the hug.

[tarvis79]

I was just poking around the internet and I came across this 100% true quote about TDP:

"Thief is the single most terrifying, immersive, and rewarding game I have played and the one single-player game I continue to replay. In addition to the overriding stealth gamestyle, it is loaded with unique elements that hold one in the world. I love the setting, a medieval tech fantasy world that owes less to D&D than to such literary lights as Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance and Michael Shea. It has a spare, but well-crafted storyline, eccentric NPCs, brilliant verse, and unparalleled sound design. Then there are the enormous, intricate levels: Sprawling towns (both populated and ruinous), haunted crypts, bizarre mansions, lost cities, and the finest subterranean sequences in any game the climactic level being a surreal descent that convinced me I had scrambled many miles towards the earth's core. There are countless books I wish I had written; Thief is one of the few games I wish I had worked on." - Marc Laidlaw, Valve (writer/designer: Half-Life)

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by AlexOfSpades

I recommend a therapist and a hug.

Just a hug and some good music should suffice...

[fbdbh]

Okay, now an EM appreciation post.

I've bought Deus Ex: HR this weekend on Steam (-75% sale). I admit that I have played it before, and this is my second walkthrough.

Everything about this game amazes me, how it could sort of recreate the atmosphere of the original Deus Ex while being completely outstanding as a standalone game as well. They really payed attention to detail, it's a very high quality game. At first, I've noticed its faults and what I don't like about it and what I miss, etc.

Now I'm a bit more impressed, seeing how good everything is, and that its faults are not nearly so distracting that I can't play it: it's dynamic, I can skip cutscenes and there are long gameplay-sequences, nice stealth and I can turn off nearly everything that annoys me (highlight, mission marker).

So I'm confident that Thief would be equally satisfying, yet I'm still curious how they will implement the obligatory newbie-tools (regeneration and everything that helps the player can be explained with augmentations, but Garrett is such a simple dude... he has tools, all right, but he has no extraordinary senses and high-tech devices). DXHR is a clear example that they were opening for non-hardcore gamers, question is, how will they do that with Thief?

[cGREGgo]

Hummm, you're forgetting about his eye? I haven't played much of DX, none at all of the last one so I can't compare.

He doesn't really need anything more than what he's already got does he? Lockpicks, blackjack, etc...
(and what appears to be a new slingshot type weapon in T4)

He is a simple thief? He needs the room to carry what he steals! ha!

[tarvis79]

There's plenty of room for hardcore gamers in DX:HR. Play on hard and you will get ANNIHILATED if you try to fight without being careful. Sneak through the whole game. It's about accessibility AND the option for a hardcore experience.

The attention to detail is what made HR great. You can complain about certain gameplay decisions, but the world they crafted is amazing and immersive. If T4 has that much detail, I'll be thrilled.

[Fizbop]

I know it's been quite a while since I've been present in the forums. All I have to say is that I'm back and will be checking the forums again perodiclly and adding my thoughts on things. It feels good to be back. Quick update: I'm now in California.

[Viktoria]

Welcome back.

[Spades]

Hi there I'm Spades and I'm new to this forum but I've been lurking around a bit and I noticed a topic earlier about daggers and swords and which should be used for this game and which would be more appropriate for a thief to use. Now it wouldn't make much sense for a thief to be sneaking about with a huge, bulky regular sword meant for a soldier but what if that thief were to get into combat? A dagger isn't going to help him fight off guards with their huge swords and chainmail armor. A middle ground option would be a shortsword. Its lightweight/small enough for a thief to conceal and long enough to use in combat!

[AlexOfSpades]

Welcome Spades!!~

[Viktoria]

Greetsies, Spades

[DJ Riff]

Originally Posted by Bizany

No, we're all just trying to justify why no one should by games anymore. Something about how developers don't need cash because they are all rotton and greedy, so we deserve to play all their games for free.

You're seriously mixing up developers and publishers here. When all games go kickstarter model, I'll blame them.

[Putkikameli]

Originally Posted by Bizany

No, we're all just trying to justify why no one should by games anymore. Something about how developers don't need cash because they are all rotton and greedy, so we deserve to play all their games for free. Because we are entitled to it since we suck in air.

When games go subscription based and cloud computing, I blame all of you.



Explain your point. If you can mention a single piece of that DLC that remains essential please? Heck, even a single useful one?

I buy every game I play. Even when I pirate game I will buy it later.

There are, however, certain developers whom games I simply refuse to buy and pirate anymore. Bethesda for example. The way they handle PC version is unacceptable. They release horrible dumbed down ports with bad UI, performance and graphics and then mod tools so community can try to fix their sorry excuse of a PC game. How the hell can they get away with this all the time? Because people buy their games. Maybe some even hope that when they buy their games they improve? [sarcasm] Skyrim was clearly greatly improved performance, UI and story wise from Fallout 3[/sarcasm]

Stop being suck ups and don't buy games from bad devs! This way you force them to improve or die.

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Bizany

Explain your point. If you can mention a single piece of that DLC that remains essential please? Heck, even a single useful one?

The automatic unlocking device allows the player to ghost through the whole game without ever unlocking, or using augmentations. There are only two instances where one must break cover. Tai Yong medical hangar and a turret-protected corridor just before meeting Darrow in Panchea. Without the AUD, you would either need to use violence, or unlock hacking augmentations.

But it's not essential. My point is, and has always been that DLCs need to be developed as additions to successful games, after their success. First make the game, then make the extras. When they are "developed in parallel", they actually aren't developed in parallel. There's only one game being made. It is simply cut into pieces once finished, and the pieces are sold separately at prices that are not proportional, to increase the full price of the full game. Release date DLCs are not extra content. They are the missing data that was deliberately removed to begin with. You need to pay ransom to get the rest of the game.