wooohooooo, look at that RACK on Lara!!

[Metalrocks]

what rufina says.
lara looked like a barbie doll in the previous games. especially in underworld.

[dark7angel]

Originally Posted by Metalrocks

what rufina says.
lara looked like a barbie doll in the previous games. especially in underworld.

Totally agree!!!
Now she actually looks like a human!

[Metalrocks]

Originally Posted by dark7angel

Totally agree!!!
Now she actually looks like a human!

yes, she looks so much believable now.

[GemmaDarkmoon]

I thought her look in Legend and Anniversary was best with her being sexy but not with that being overwhelming to other aspects. The Japan dress isquite gorgeous and I can see why the guy I know who play TR all love that one.

With those guys who do say that they like to see gaming females be oversexualized is that they are looking at the girl and thinking 'would I want to go out with her?' or is the badass chick element or the bravado. I don't know and I'm just kind of curious

[Laras_Justice]

I think she looks much more real now, she had very small hips in underworld and legend - it was like a barbie. I agree

[mrskurtistrent]

I admit, I was kinda surprised when I went on Youtube and found a girl gamer talking about Silent Hill 2 and its enemies. And not that I didn't think there were any girl gamers, but a lot of my friends aren't really the gamer types. So I commented, and I was very excited and said I was glad to see there are girl gamers out there. And this lady (atleast I think it was) commented back and told me about more girl gamers and I was really embarrassed I didn't mean to sound like there was no girl gamers, just that I now knew of one!

Anyway, I still love old Lara, but I do like how they made her boobs a bit smaller haha. Still love the old Lara though

[WinterSoldier]

Originally Posted by mrskurtistrent

I admit, I was kinda surprised when I went on Youtube and found a girl gamer talking about Silent Hill 2 and its enemies. And not that I didn't think there were any girl gamers, but a lot of my friends aren't really the gamer types. So I commented, and I was very excited and said I was glad to see there are girl gamers out there.

You mean CyborCat? Dude, she's great. I love her "Silent Hill" documentaries/retrospectives. You don't see many gamers (male OR female) dig that deep into games.

[Ivana KC]

Honestly, in this thread this is the first time I found out that someone thinks that Lara doesn't look good (when you say she looks lke Barbie, that's a bad thing for a character, IMO).

I think that everyone (male or female, doesn't matter) can objectively say if any person is sexy/beautiful or not. From my perspective, I think she was beautiful in previous games. Those were unreal, but perfect proportions (not just body, face too). Now she is more realistic, I like it, but her face seems too young, and I don't like that. Her body does look more realistic now, no doubt and I like the fact that her eyes are now somehow green.

I'm curious - what do male gamers think about Lara's previous look? Are you guys complaining because you are being objective or you simply don't like looking at perfect body while playing a game? That may be a stupid question, I know, but I still want to know.

[muons]

Originally Posted by WinterSoldier

Woot! 1,000th post! Only took me... 3 years? Man, I feel like a slacker.

Congratulations!

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

I think that everyone (male or female, doesn't matter) can objectively say if any person is sexy/beautiful or not. From my perspective, I think she was beautiful in previous games. Those were unreal, but perfect proportions (not just body, face too). Now she is more realistic, I like it, but her face seems too young, and I don't like that. Her body does look more realistic now, no doubt and I like the fact that her eyes are now somehow green.

I'm curious - what do male gamers think about Lara's previous look? Are you guys complaining because you are being objective or you simply don't like looking at perfect body while playing a game? That may be a stupid question, I know, but I still want to know.

Maybe Lara's previous body is "too" perfect to the extent that it is harder to relate to her. Toning her down would make her seem more like an actual person with flaws, vulnerabilities, etc. and not a femme fatale like we have seen in previous TR games. Just my thoughts.

EDIT: May not have exactly answered your question, on second thought. I basically said why Crystal D might be changing Lara's look for the new 2013 Tomb Raider. :P

[Jurre]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

I'm curious - what do male gamers think about Lara's previous look? Are you guys complaining because you are being objective or you simply don't like looking at perfect body while playing a game? That may be a stupid question, I know, but I still want to know.

In my opinion she looked cartoony in Legend & Anniversary but that fitted well within the cartoony look of the world she ran trough. When the grafics got more realistic in Underworld she suddenly looked very fake like a Barbie doll or someone with too much plastic sugery.
I think she lookes better than ever in this game though. Imagine the Japan dress on her with these grafics...

[Elliot Kane]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

Honestly, in this thread this is the first time I found out that someone thinks that Lara doesn't look good (when you say she looks lke Barbie, that's a bad thing for a character, IMO).

I think that everyone (male or female, doesn't matter) can objectively say if any person is sexy/beautiful or not. From my perspective, I think she was beautiful in previous games. Those were unreal, but perfect proportions (not just body, face too). Now she is more realistic, I like it, but her face seems too young, and I don't like that. Her body does look more realistic now, no doubt and I like the fact that her eyes are now somehow green.

I'm curious - what do male gamers think about Lara's previous look? Are you guys complaining because you are being objective or you simply don't like looking at perfect body while playing a game? That may be a stupid question, I know, but I still want to know.

Game characters tend to be pretty exaggerated generally, so I'm fine with it. The only difference is if they are actually supposed to be real people, in which case they tend to look like the person (Well, within the limitations of the graphics).

I have no problems with Lara looking like Kelly Brook, any more than I have problems with male characters whose biceps are bigger than my thighs. Sure, it's unrealistic, but if it fits with the art style and the mood of the game, that won't trouble me.

I love Crossroads Trailer Lara. She is a beautiful young woman, and it's that model the new game should use. Gameplay trailer Lara looks like a teenager, not a twenty-something. That is a bad mistake, IMO. I've never yet seen a 21-year old who could pass for fourteen at a pinch.

So, on to the actual question: do I like Lara's old look? Yes. Do I mind if they change her a bit? Not at all. They've done it in every game so far, IIRC. Do I mind if she looks like a child when she's supposed to be an adult? Abso-flippin'-lutely!

[WinterSoldier]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

I'm curious - what do male gamers think about Lara's previous look? Are you guys complaining because you are being objective or you simply don't like looking at perfect body while playing a game? That may be a stupid question, I know, but I still want to know.

Well, if we're talking the Core era first 5 games, I personaly think she looked disgusting. As unrealistic as she was proportioned was just... gross to me. I never understood why some guys would get all excited to see her swan dive into a pool or lake or whatever back then, and I still don't see why some guys still do to that particular incarnation now. Her body just didn't do anything for me. Wow. I never thought I'd say that about a woman. Hmm...

Anyways, I can't say as I, erm, got aroused by "Legend" Lara, but I finaly understood the attraction. She looked great, was the most realistic I'd seen her at that point, and had sharp wit to boot. My kind of gal. And I also found it interesting comparing the "Legend" render to the main menu of the first "TR". "Legend" is the closest Lara ever looked to what I can only assume to be her intended look. Facially, mind you.

I don't personaly have a problem w/ this new Lara render. I think she looks quite good. I haven't sat down and studied every inch of her (That's a 4th date thing. J/K. Sorry, I couldn't resist.), but I don't see anything that repulses me.

I didn't get into this series based on how she looks tho. I'm here for gameplay and good storytelling. Big fan of the sound design as well.

[adobeARTIST]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

I'm curious - what do male gamers think about Lara's previous look? Are you guys complaining because you are being objective or you simply don't like looking at perfect body while playing a game? That may be a stupid question, I know, but I still want to know.

While I have enthusiastically praised the new Lara, yes I do still like Lara's old look. But to put it in proper context, it was good for it's time. But technology evolves and standards of character rendering & design changes. I think we all took Lara's old look for what it was back then because we had yet to see how much better it could be.

Now it can be argued that the Underworld Lara was realistic and I suppose she was. Yet it's flaw was being too perfect. This may sound contradictory. How can this be seen as a disadvntage? Yet how many human beings do we really see that are just that flawless? Rather than being realistic, the "too perfect" image made her also artificial. It's like Lara was manufactured than naturally born this way. The new Lara is not only realistic, but natural. Her presence comes across a truly living breathing human, and not an android made to look human.

Like I said, the previous Lara's were seen as fine for its day because we had yet to see her granted the full potential of human rendering and characterization. It's only after we've seen this realized, that we can see the flaws of what came before. Now it's hard to go back.

Actually let me clarify that, it's impossible to go back. I now refuse to accept outdated standards. Lara is not only a character of this generation, but an icon in the complete history of gaming. So she should always continue to reflect the times she lives in. Just as Batman and Spiderman does throughout their lifetimes.

But I want to turn things around from what IvanKC was asking, and get back to the core of the discussion, which the Extra Credits video had directed towards female gamers. It was talking about how the industry at large can make itself more inviting to female audiences and welcome them into the fold as gamers. While Lara was not specifically at the center of this, given her extensive presence she was quite prominently cited as an example.

So how do the female gamers here take Lara as an example of a female lead character in the media, from all renditions we have seen from the PS1 days to present? What kind of influence do you think she was, what was your reaction to her sexuality, and do you feel she was possibly more detrimental than inspiring?

[Elliot Kane]

Adobe,

But I want to turn things around from what IvanKC was asking, and get back to the core of the discussion, which was sparked by the Extra Credits video in the OP. It was talking about how the industry at large can make itself more inviting to female audiences and welcome them into the fold as gamers.

That one is actually easier than you'd think. While there is a taste overlap between male & female gamers, games are a bit like films. You won't find too many guys who love chick flicks or too many girls who love gung-ho action movies.

To encourage more female gamers, make games that suit the broad majority of females' tastes. Apparently The Sims is incredibly popular amongst female gamers, for example.

It's a bit like: if every film was basically Terminator, how many female filmgoers would you expect to see?

While Lara was not specifically at the center of this, given her extensive presence she was certainly pivotal.

So how do the female gamers take Lara as an example of a female lead character in the media, from all renditions we have seen from the PS1 days to present? What kind of influence do you think she was, and do you feel she was possibly more detrimental than inspiring?

This I can't really answer, except to note the large number of female gamers on these very forums. If Lara were not a positive influence, I suspect they would not be here

[pidipidi39]

Originally Posted by WinterSoldier

Well, if we're talking the Core era first 5 games, I personaly think she looked disgusting. As unrealistic as she was proportioned was just... gross to me. I never understood why some guys would get all excited to see her swan dive into a pool or lake or whatever back then, and I still don't see why some guys still do to that particular incarnation now. Her body just didn't do anything for me. Wow. I never thought I'd say that about a woman. Hmm...

Anyways, I can't say as I, erm, got aroused by "Legend" Lara, but I finaly understood the attraction. She looked great, was the most realistic I'd seen her at that point, and had sharp wit to boot. My kind of gal. And I also found it interesting comparing the "Legend" render to the main menu of the first "TR". "Legend" is the closest Lara ever looked to what I can only assume to be her intended look. Facially, mind you.

I don't personaly have a problem w/ this new Lara render. I think she looks quite good. I haven't sat down and studied every inch of her (That's a 4th date thing. J/K. Sorry, I couldn't resist.), but I don't see anything that repulses me.

I didn't get into this series based on how she looks tho. I'm here for gameplay and good storytelling. Big fan of the sound design as well.

Same to me!

[Metalrocks]

the old lara dint do anything to me. her body just looked unreal so as her face. her lips looked like she had plastic surgery.

she looked better in legend. at least her body came a bit closer to reality, wile her face still looked a bit barbie like. still big lips though but a face i could look at.

in anniversary she looked a bit realer. her breasts werent too huge as before. her face also looked better to me. smaller lips for a change.

underworld, the body was alright but her face just looked like a barbie doll. amanda looked better to me then lara.

the new one. just perfect . finally she looks real. not like a barbie doll that had plastic surgery. thats a woman i can look at and definitely would go out with, since she has more personallity

the same i can say about cate archer from the NOLF games. in part 1, her face looked like from an alien. wile her body was the only nice thing to look at.
in part 2, she looked so much better. such a pretty face, wonderful to look at. i actually looked at her face more then her body.

[Ivana KC]

WinterSoldier, Elliot Kane and adobeARTIST, you guys agree with me? Game characters are supposed to look perfect/unreal when they do unreal things, right?

Originally Posted by adobeARTIST

So how do the female gamers here take Lara as an example of a female lead character in the media, from all renditions we have seen from the PS1 days to present? What kind of influence do you think she was, what was your reaction to her sexuality, and do you feel she was possibly more detrimental than inspiring?

I think she is the one who inspires. She is a game character, fictional, unreal! She's not a real model so there is no pressure, at least, not for me. Actually, just the fact that she is a female is a plus, since we live in a patriarchal socitey.

Originally Posted by Metalrocks

the old lara dint do anything to me. her body just looked unreal so as her face. her lips looked like she had plastic surgery.

she looked better in legend. at least her body came a bit closer to reality, wile her face still looked a bit barbie like. still big lips though but a face i could look at.

in anniversary she looked a bit realer. her breasts werent too huge as before. her face also looked better to me. smaller lips for a change.

underworld, the body was alright but her face just looked like a barbie doll. amanda looked better to me then lara.

the new one. just perfect . finally she looks real. not like a barbie doll that had plastic surgery. thats a woman i can look at and definitely would go out with, since she has more personallity

the same i can say about cate archer from the NOLF games. in part 1, her face looked like from an alien. wile her body was the only nice thing to look at.
in part 2, she looked so much better. such a pretty face, wonderful to look at. i actually looked at her face more then her body.

OK, so let's put it this way. Lara should be realistic although she does all those unrealistic stuff (monsters, climbing...)?
I wonder, have you ever played Duke Nukem or Metal Gear Solid? How in the world would Duke Nukem or Snake look like if they wouldn't have all those muscles? IMO, same thing is with Lara. If you take away her perfect beauty, the game looses its charm.

[Elliot Kane]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

WinterSoldier, Elliot Kane and adobeARTIST, you guys agree with me? Game characters are supposed to look perfect/unreal when they do unreal things, right?

Pretty much, Ivana, yes.

There may well be game characters out there who are not walking clichés but I don't recall seeing them.

Heroes are handsome, heroines are beautiful, mad inventors are skinny and speak strangely, warriors are always massive steroid abusers when male and far too slender to even lift the massive swords they wield so expertly when female...

That's just games

[WinterSoldier]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

WinterSoldier, Elliot Kane and adobeARTIST, you guys agree with me? Game characters are supposed to look perfect/unreal when they do unreal things, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a bit of realism, but at the end of the day video games are about escapism and things being 10 times bigger and bolder then they are in the real world (well, most of the ones I play, anyways). A certain degree of suspension of belief is required to enjoy them. Otherwise you'd just be sitting there going: "Hang ON! There is NO WAY that dude can do THAT without messing up his hair!" (I'm talking about YOU, Leon Kennedy). If things in video games weren't un-realistic, what'd be the point of them?

Look at the FF series. Not only are those males and females perfectly fit and handsome and pretty, but have you seen their weapons? No way ANYONE could weild one of those. But they make for nice visuals to some eyes.

[LadyRufina]

Originally Posted by Elliot Kane

I love Crossroads Trailer Lara. She is a beautiful young woman, and it's that model the new game should use. Gameplay trailer Lara looks like a teenager, not a twenty-something. That is a bad mistake, IMO. I've never yet seen a 21-year old who could pass for fourteen at a pinch.

I'm 22 and could easily pass for 14, seriously. That said I don't think the new Lara looks 14 at all. Her features are way too defined for a 14 year old. I think she looks bang on 21, maybe a little younger.

[Metalrocks]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

OK, so let's put it this way. Lara should be realistic although she does all those unrealistic stuff (monsters, climbing...)?
I wonder, have you ever played Duke Nukem or Metal Gear Solid? How in the world would Duke Nukem or Snake look like if they wouldn't have all those muscles? IMO, same thing is with Lara. If you take away her perfect beauty, the game looses its charm.

lol, i think you took me here a bit too serious. .
i know its a game and that she is fictional. still no harm in looking realistic but can do unrealistic stuff.

of course i have played duke nukem....3D. we just know duke that muscular but i also would be fine if he just looks fit. would not lose its charm to me. but you do have these muscular people around. a friend of mine looks almost like him.
never played metal gear because this game never came out for the pc. but i know what you mean.

[Ivana KC]

Originally Posted by Elliot Kane

Pretty much, Ivana, yes.

There may well be game characters out there who are not walking clichés but I don't recall seeing them.

Heroes are handsome, heroines are beautiful, mad inventors are skinny and speak strangely, warriors are always massive steroid abusers when male and far too slender to even lift the massive swords they wield so expertly when female...

That's just games

Exactly! Although, I don't mind if enemies are handsome too.

Originally Posted by WinterSoldier

Yeah, absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a bit of realism, but at the end of the day video games are about escapism and things being 10 times bigger and bolder then they are in the real world (well, most of the ones I play, anyways). A certain degree of suspension of belief is required to enjoy them. Otherwise you'd just be sitting there going: "Hang ON! There is NO WAY that dude can do THAT without messing up his hair!" (I'm talking about YOU, Leon Kennedy). If things in video games weren't un-realistic, what'd be the point of them?

Look at the FF series. Not only are those males and females perfectly fit and handsome and pretty, but have you seen their weapons? No way ANYONE could weild one of those. But they make for nice visuals to some eyes.

I agree with everything you said. If we want a real life, we just look around us, right?
And Final Fantasy heroes...my god, perfect hair in ANY occasion! But you have to admit that FF wouldn't be FF if there weren't massive swords.

Originally Posted by Metalrocks

never played metal gear because this game never came out for the pc. but i know what you mean.

I recall playing Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 on my PC. I suppose you meant on new games, they didn't come out for PC.

[Metalrocks]

Originally Posted by Ivana KC

I recall playing Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 on my PC. I suppose you meant on new games, they didn't come out for PC.

seriously????? i never ever saw 1 and 2 in any store. either in switzerland or in australia. and i really wanted them so badly. they only had it for consoles and every store told me it only came out for consoles, not for the pc. even when they chekced their system, they said they have nothing for the pc.
now its too late to get them. they are too old to run on todays systems

[Ivana KC]

Originally Posted by Metalrocks

seriously????? i never ever saw 1 and 2 in any store. either in switzerland or in australia. and i really wanted them so badly. they only had it for consoles and every store told me it only came out for consoles, not for the pc. even when they chekced their system, they said they have nothing for the pc.
now its too late to get them. they are too old to run on todays systems

Not yet! My borther managed to play Metal Gear on a PC we bought 3 years ago (we play it now, too). We also thought that the game is too old for a new system, but it's actually all about resolution of your screen. Let the game auto-ajdust and you could play without any problems.

Whoever told you that the game didn't come out for PC is very, VERY wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_G...8video_game%29
Even wikipedia says PC MS-DOS under platforms.

[Elliot Kane]

If you have trouble with any game that ran on DOS, try DOSBox. Incredibly useful program - and free!