The Official Conversation Thread

[Old_BenKenobi]

Just finished The Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus Volume 2.

That was an astounding read. I wasn't sure if it could match the Ditko run but I think it did, albeit in different ways. Ditko's focus was storytelling above all, there was nothing really flashy or impressive about the actual artwork but Romita, Heck, Mooney and Lieber created gorgeous pages cover-to-cover. Romita loved to use big panels, with many pages only having three or four panels (vs Ditko's average of six), and that really showed off the artwork. Storywise Ditko's run has the advantage of introducing the bulk of Spidey's classic villains. But I think Romita's run tackles the Peter Parker aspect better. In Ditko's run Peter Parker was a very resentful and bitter teenager, with stuff like "Someday I'll show them ALL!" being hard to see in anything other than a very Travis Bickle light post-Columbine. Romita's Peter is a confident, good natured and easy going young man. Its fantastic how Stan and Johnny are able to make Peter more social without making Peter a Gary Stu. Hes still got tons of problems to deal with, no longer being bullied just takes a small weight off his shoulders.

This transition would have been jarring if they had kept the same setting and supporting cast but it flows well with the introduction of new characters and a new setting. Most of these changes happened during the last quarter of Ditko's run but Romita picked up these threads and ran with them. Liz Allen is gone, Flash Thompson goes to Vietnam, Peter gets an apartment with Harry Osborn (who pre-Romita interpreted Peter's introspectiveness and introverted nature as him being a snob), Betty Brant and Ned Leeds fade into the background, Gwen Stacy gets friendlier, we meet Captain George Stacy (who is really awesome) and most importantly of all, Mary Jane shows up. After being pestered by Aunt May to meet MJ for years (these early Spidey stories are in real time) Pete finally gets suckered into meeting her. I think its funny that MJ and Green Goblin were both introduced as mystery characters in the same issue (ASM 14) and it took two issues longer to see MJ's face.

I've never been a huge Mary Jane fan because of how annoying she was in the 90s animated cartoon and Sam Raimi movies and while she was a good supporting character in the Spectacular Spider-Man (where for once she actually has her original characterization) I never thought her to be anything special. But wow, when she shows up the whole tone of the book changes. MJ is fun, extremely outgoing, shallow and is heavily implied (as much as the CCA allowed for) to be a raging slut. When Peter broke a date with Betty Brant he ended up in the doghouse. When Peter broke a date with MJ she basically said "Ok, I'll go out with someone else then." She doesn't care that Peter is a flake because all she wants to do is party and has no real attachment to him. At the same time, theres a little bit of a rivalry with Gwen Stacy over Peter but its not because MJ is jealous, its because shes such a narcissist that she is bewildered by someone prefering someone other than her. One of the most famous Spidey moments ever is the aftermath of Gwen's death, where Peter is mourning and MJ is comforting him. Peter tells her to get lost, saying she wouldn't care if her own mother died and essentially calls her out on her shallow, fun-obsessed nature. MJ hesitates leaving the room, then closes the door and stays. The impact is that it marks one of the first times MJ is actually shown to have a softspot but I've never "gotten" it until I read MJ's appearances in this book.



Its painfully obvious that Stan and John were trying to keep the spotlight on Gwen (who apparently Stan had a softspot for because she was modelled after his wife) but no matter what MJ just steals it without even trying. Its just the nature of her character. As a result, even though Gwen is a pretty gal and is Peter's girlfriend (the transition from love interest to girlfriend is never explicitly shown, unless I missed something) she doesn't stand out at all and all she really does is think about how much she likes Peter. Its no wonder they killed her off and made MJ Peter's true love.

Love story aside, the book has some great Spidey plots. It opens with a bang, with Spidey and the Green Goblin learning each other's identities and ending with Norman having amnesia and Spidey lying to say the Goblin died in the battle. From there we get a three issue story introducing the Rhino and reintroducing John Jameson. We also get the debut of the Shocker and the return of the Lizard. After that we get another three issue arc dealing with Kraven, the new Vulture and Norman Osborn. This is where the seeds are initially planted for the Green Goblin's eventual return, which won't happen until The Spectacular Spider-Man #2 which comes 20 issues later (I love longform storytelling like this). Knowing what happens 80 issues from now I couldn't help but cringe when Norman gets knocked off a building and Spidey swings down and catches him. Immediately after this is ASM 50, the infamous issue where Spidey calls it quits. This has the best Spidey cover ever (and you know its good when there are letters in the letter pages raving about it) and I was thrilled to see Dean White's painted variation in the bonus features. This story is the start of another three part arc, this one dealing with the Kingpin who is a big time badass here.

After this we immediately jump into a four issue storyline starring Doc Ock. Doc Ock is really great in this early issues, very threatening and his appearances are always on a large scale (I don't think Doc Ock has actually had a done-in-one story since his first appearance in #3). I'm pretty sure this is the first four part story in the series history, and it could even be called a five parter as Spidey doesn't fully recover from Doc Ock's attack until the next issue (which is a done-in-one starring Ka-Zar aka Tarzan). After the Ka-Zar issue we get a Spencer Smythe issue and the return of the Spider Slayer. Next theres a three part story dealing with a plot to brainwash high ranking city officials. This one marks the return of a previous villain and has some big time ramifications of Peter's social life. It also has MJ getting hired to be a stage dancer, which is kind of funny. If these stories were being written today MJ would be a stripper who snorts blow in the men's room with Harry Osborn. Next comes a pretty stupid done-in-one featuring Medusa. The less said about this one the better. But things pick up with a three part Vulture story, which basically wrote Blackie Drago (Vulture II)out of Marvel history forever. And finally, we get a pretty trippy two-parter featuring Mysterio, which has Spider-Man shrunk down to six inches tall and having to dodge traps in a miniature themepark.

Thats just the main series though. Theres additional material included as well, including Annuals 3-5 (the only one that really stuck with me was #3, which featured Spider-Man trying to join the Avengers and being tasked to bring them the Hulk as his initiation). Annual 4 is a Spider-Man/Human Torch team-up involving a movie shoot set up for nefarious purposes by a villain. Its basically ASM 14 but with the Human Torch along for the ride and with Mysterio instead of the Green Goblin. Annual 5 is notable for finally revealing Peter's parents and why he was raised by his aunt and uncle. It turns out Richard Parker was a spy and a traitor who died in a plan crash... or thats how it seems. Its a decent enough story but I'm just not a fan of Peter's Dad being a spy. The setup was echoed in USM, with Peter accidentally finding records of his parents but that was done with much better results. Aside from the Annuals there are the two issues of the Spectacular Spider-Man magazine. These are longer stories (around 50 pages each) originally printed as the lead features in a Spider-Man magazine. The mag was cancelled after two issues but the stories are still pretty good. The first one deals with a politician who has swayed the men of New York with his integrity and wooed the woman with his charms (gotta love the 60s). But it turns out theres more than meets the eye with him. This story is in black and white with ink washes providing grey tones. Its not a bad look but pretty jarring. The second issue is in full colour and its really awesome. It deals with the long awaited return of the Green Goblin. After almost 20 issues of build up Norman Osborn finally snaps and regains his memories. It says something for the material when even though I know where Norman's story will end up and what he will do that I still can't help but feel sorry for him as his mental illness returns. Once he goes back into crazy mode hes a very threatening villain. He invites Harry, Peter, Gwen and MJ to a party at his house with the plan of confronting Peter. Peter has to attend and Norman instantly goes into creepsville, dropping big hints and clearly starting to lose control. Thanks to some quick thinking Peter is able to set up a Spidey vs Goblin confrontation and it is truly an awesome battle with some very trippy visuals as Gobby doses Peter with a hallucinogen. This issue also has one of my all time favourite covers, and Dean White's recent paintover of it is just awesome:



I wish I could say this Goblin epic ended the book as it would have been nice for the book to be bookended by two Goblin stories, but Annual 5 comes afterwards and from there we get some Not Brand Echh. Not Brand Echh was Marvel's satire comic, featuring parodies of both Marvel and DC characters and all manner of silliness. I know a lot of people like these issues but I had to fight through them. Marie Severin's fantastic artwork go me through it but it was a chore and ended the book on a down note.

The book has a nice amount of bonus features. We've got some pencil studies from Larry Lieber, John Romita's first ever drawing of MJ, some original artwork and photostats and a gallery of the seven painted covers done by Dean White for the softcover Masterworks.

Overally its a great book. The page count is very high for a 100 dollar book, more than 900 pages. The long form storytelling is strong as ever, with several plotlines always running. The artwork is a step above Ditko's and the book is a breeze to read considering its age. While I wouldn't rank it quite as high as Walt Simonson's Thor (due to the Not Brand Echh stories) its still an easy 5/5.

[Old_BenKenobi]

So um......

Anyone else think Nicholas Cage would be an awesome Dr Doom?

[mwkcope]

Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi

So um......

Anyone else think Nicholas Cage would be an awesome Dr Doom?

Uh, no...

But since we're on the topic, how about Ian MacKellen?

[Old_BenKenobi]

Ian McKellan is too old and not crazy enough. Cage is the only actor alive who could deliver Doom's dialog with any measure of conviction. I mean, who else could say something like "No, madman! Whatever you may see there -- it is not fear! Fear is for lesser men... Never for Doom!"

Nicholas Cage has crazy awesome pumping through his veins. Doom's armor is forged from raw crazy awesome. Its a match made in heaven.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

[Drazar]

Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi

Ian McKellan is too old and not crazy enough. Cage is the only actor alive who could deliver Doom's dialog with any measure of conviction. I mean, who else could say something like "No, madman! Whatever you may see there -- it is not fear! Fear is for lesser men... Never for Doom!"

Nicholas Cage has crazy awesome pumping through his veins. Doom's armor is forged from raw crazy awesome. Its a match made in heaven.

Hallelujah!

Also your ASM Omnibus write-up was very informative, i had to crack at MJ being a total party girl and her modern day incarnation as a stripper would be rather bold, but yeah interesting to hear Lee's wife was the basis of Gwen Stacy. Your comments how very long-term planned Spider-Man was back then makes me wanna check these out, but eh, i'm not just that big into Spidey.

PS. But hey mr. i love big planned stories, you could check out more of Morrison's Batman? <3



Sacha Baron Cohen’s the Dictator

The Dictator is the latest comedy from the maker of Ali G, Borat & Brüno, this time heading towards a very political satire of today’s dictatorships and political systems of 21th century, with its title as a nice throwback to the amazing Charlie Chaplin movie, the Dictator.

This is the story of Admiral General Aladeen (Sacha Baron Cohen), who runs the North African Republic of Wadiya, which by the way has a lot of oil. Aladeen hates the concept of democracy and values the concept of dictatorship, but due to his fascination and obsession with nuclear weaponry, the UN demands his presence in the New York Headquarters to prove that everything is okay, but that’s where everything goes wrong: In an assassination attempt his beard gets destroyed, thus no one recognizes him!

Thus after a 15-20 minute introduction to the great republic of Wadiya, the audience is treated with it’s main plot consisting of Aladeen trying to return to the UN to deliver his speech, backstabs within his own personal stuff, learning more about America, seeing political escapees of Wadiya and whatnot, the story is really tongue-in-cheek so don’t take it seriously, just go with the flow and enjoy the comedy it has. The supporting cast is composed of Tamir (Ben Kingsley), Nadal (Jason Mantzoukas) and Zoey (Anna Faris). There really isn’t much to say about the plot, after all this is merely a 82 minute long movie, so who really wants to spoil or go deep into it?

The jokes are crude, vulgar, racist, homophobic and flatout outrageous, me and my friends had a blast during the entire time, added with a nice “Arabic” vibe with it’s soundtrack, you got a nice mixture of Eastern World meets Western, as some of the best jokes come with Aladeen’s dialogue with Zoey, who is just a mere 2nd rate citizen to him due to her womanhood.

So yeah, I don’t wish to get any deeper, it’s not Borat or anything when looked into the Maximus Opus of Cohen’s film career, but it’s an entertaining movie and has a very beautiful speech about democracy, which was just poetry in itself.

[A Dark Knight]

I love Morrison's Batman. Snyder's Batman is only second to Morrison's for me.

When is Batman Inc returning again?

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I loved the Dictator. And the jokes were supposed to be offensive in a black satire kind of way

NEW ARKHAM CITY DLC TRAILER

[Old_BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by Drazar

Hallelujah!

Also your ASM Omnibus write-up was very informative, i had to crack at MJ being a total party girl and her modern day incarnation as a stripper would be rather bold, but yeah interesting to hear Lee's wife was the basis of Gwen Stacy. Your comments how very long-term planned Spider-Man was back then makes me wanna check these out, but eh, i'm not just that big into Spidey.

PS. But hey mr. i love big planned stories, you could check out more of Morrison's Batman? <3

"Not just that big into Spidey"?! Unpossible! Blasphemer! I'll see you burned at the stake!

What the hell? This actually looks pretty good.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I wish they would call him the Green Arrow...but thats too confusing cuz there was another green arrow character in smallville...?

[Old_BenKenobi]

I think its because Green Hornet and Green Lantern were failures.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I beat Max payne 3... fun game.. but annoyed the hell out of me

[A Dark Knight]

Getting Max Payne 3 tomorrow. Obligatory buy because it's a Rockstar game and it obviously got great reviews.

[Old_BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by Batman The Trailer Hunter

I beat Max payne 3... fun game.. but annoyed the hell out of me

How so?

[A Dark Knight]

Supernatural finale was awesome.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi

How so?

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/re...payne-3/730060

Pretty much sums up my feelings

[Old_BenKenobi]

- According to AgentX (my insider’s fictional alias) Marvel does know that fans are hating Ultimate Spider-man. In fact many Marvel Studios employees who are working on the show hate it. However, Marvel and Disney invensted a lot of money in it and will not be cancelling it anytime soon. Especially since many Marvel big guys believe the show is doing great (although the ratings have started dropping after episode 3 “Doomed”).

- Many discussions have been taking place regarding Avengers EMH (which is ending after this season) and how it could be the reason people are watching Ultimate Spider-man, since it broadcasts prior to the hit show Avengers. To make sure this isn’t the case, there will be many instances where Disney XD will air a new episode of Ultimate Spider-man while putting Avengers: EMH on a short hiatus. (AgentX and many Marvel guys believe that Avengers EMH brings the biggest number of viewers to watch Ultimate Spider-man)

- Season 2 of Ultimate Spider-man is in full production right now, as it was green lit before the show even premiered, and Marvel is not planning any change to the show tone, its humor, execution or even character development.

- The Statement Paul Dini, one of the producers and writers of the show, about the show getting mature with more seasons is false and wishful thinking, as Marvel had made it clear that the tone will not change. In fact according to AgentX, even Dini himself is not very happy with how the show turns out and wanted to have some maturity in it, which Marvel rejected.

- Jeph Loeb is definitely one of the main guys who is pushing for the tone of the show. According to Agent X, Jeph wants Marvel Cartoons to prepare the youglings to be future Marvel comics fans, and he insisted on having all the Marvel cartons (Ultimate Spider-man, Hulk agents of SMASH, and the second half season of Avengers EMH) with no over reaching story, no 2 or 3 episodes parters, and no continuity.

-As Much as people are complaining about the show, they do not address their complaints to anyone. AgentX believes that if enough people wrote to Marvel and the show producers about how much they hate the show, then chances are higher for the show to be fixed or cancelled and replaced by a better Spider-man show.

- Hulk Agents of SMASH, is a bit diffirent than Ultimate Spider-man, but still geared towards children. According to AgentX, the episode stories of the show are very simple, under-explained and many times don’t make sense at all.

- Much like Ultimate Spider-man, HULK Agents of SMASH’s characters backgrounds is never explored, but only touched upon (just like Ultimate spider-man’s teammates)

- While there are no Cut away gags, and breaking the 4th wall jokes in Agents of SMASH, there are some episodes where the characters are talking to the viewer, as in a reality show, where each member of the hulk team will explain things and tell his view on the episode’s situation. (AgentX is not sure how many episodes will be in this format)

- According to AgentX, if you hate Ultimate Spider-man, chances are you will not like Hulk and the Agents of SMASH.

- Hulk Agents of SMASH can be described as a mindless action show, with no character development and no intelligent stories.

Oh gosh....

Now they're starting to hack me off. Not only do they put out a crappy Spider-Man show but they're deliberately dragging my homeboy Hulk through the mud as well AND pissing off Paul Dini.

Is Jeph Loeb destined to do everything wrong?

[A Dark Knight]

Got Max Payne 3 today. Awesome.

[Drazar]

Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi

Is Jeph Loeb destined to do everything wrong?

Well if those rumors are true, i don't see why they can't get rid of Jeph Loeb and get someone with a better vision, especially if the ratings keep getting lower and lower. If Tron: Legacy or Motor City works, why not try and "out-source" staff from there to assist?

Young Justice: Invasion episode 4 was absolutely fantastic, i love all this massive world building it has that will culminate into this big massive epic finale, not to mention this show is the master of teases, teasing us something and revealing more along the way. Not to mention it's glad to see Roy's daughter exist. Wally West will most definitely return to the hero game, will "Requiem for a Scarlet Speedster" get a YJ-Incarnation from the Brave & Bold series?

[A Dark Knight]

Finished Max Payne 3 today. Just... wow. I love you Rockstar.

[Old_BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by Drazar

Well if those rumors are true, i don't see why they can't get rid of Jeph Loeb and get someone with a better vision, especially if the ratings keep getting lower and lower. If Tron: Legacy or Motor City works, why not try and "out-source" staff from there to assist?

Young Justice: Invasion episode 4 was absolutely fantastic, i love all this massive world building it has that will culminate into this big massive epic finale, not to mention this show is the master of teases, teasing us something and revealing more along the way. Not to mention it's glad to see Roy's daughter exist. Wally West will most definitely return to the hero game, will "Requiem for a Scarlet Speedster" get a YJ-Incarnation from the Brave & Bold series?

We can only hope the ratings plummet and Jeph Loeb gets sacked.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

Young Justice was awesome...kinda sad that Sportsmaster didnt kill the 2 goons...probably censorship reasons...Sefton hill says there are 3-4 hidden easter eggs that all the gamers have skimmed over....apparently so obvious they put it in the demo they showed off and NO ONE realized it...

[Old_BenKenobi]

Bwah, still reeling from the Avengers. Saw it for the fourth time last night. SO MUCH GOODNESS.

[Drazar]

Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi

Bwah, still reeling from the Avengers. Saw it for the fourth time last night. SO MUCH GOODNESS.

I'm so glad the Blu-ray has the Director's commentary, love commentaries. <3 I like the rumors about the Ant-Man short.

PS. Hi y'all Diablo players.

I play on the North American servers (as likely most of ya do) so here's my nametag if someone wants to add and play and/or chit chat alongside some fun questing, just add on the message where i might know ya. <3 Nametag: Drz#2446

[Old_BenKenobi]

Yeah the commentary should be interesting. I wish they had an Extended Cut on there though.