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  #26  
Old 04-22-2012, 11:52 PM
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  #27  
Old 04-23-2012, 04:30 AM
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devilworm11 ~ I'm not sure what you're attempting to post, but I am sure I'm not liking what pops up when I attempted to access your links.


(click image to enlarge)

Please be advised that this *isn't* my AV software being "touchy".

I strongly advise you to locate another site from which to post your content. I trust that it's appropriate because links like these aren't going to be tolerated as they jeopardize our member's browsing experience.

Thanks.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:10 AM
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  #29  
Old 04-23-2012, 12:06 PM
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Like I said, just upload the jpeg files from your computer to Photobucket, or Imageshack, and then get the "direct link" from each off of there.
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  #30  
Old 04-23-2012, 02:20 PM
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Yep, that will all do nicely for me, very clever. Just expand the details somewhat and wrap it all up with some compelling gameplay then LoK6 is ready to fly.

Details -
What happened to the Seer? Should Kain not have brought her Back to the Future with him?
Where do the Hylden stand now?
Isn't The Reaver supposed to be the key to restoring the pillars? (this story just seems to require the completed Balance Emblem).
Is Kain now required to genocide the rest of the de-evolved vampires to make way for a purer (less insane/bestial) race?

Loved the -
reappearance of the Priestess from the SR deleted material.
final Battle being at the Abyss.
Raziel being re-raised as a vampire once more. Would not have thought him coming back to be a good idea but this really works.
Nosgoth finally being rid of the EG and the Pillars restored.
the Soul Reaver disappearing at the end (it has to fall back through time to be eventually found by Kain in Avernus in the first place).

Personally I would rework it a little to have Kain being able to restore Raziel by defeating the EG. It makes more sense (to me) to have the Scion of Balance defeat the EG alone then claim Raziel's body as a reward (erm... that sounded much less homoerotic in my head).
I would imagine Raziel's resurrection would be like his original raising - A long lost soul restored to a heavily decayed body - resulting in a complete amnesia of his previous life/lives and therefor a sinless, fresh start to a new one.
The multiple resurrections and restorations of characters seem a little too quick and easy here.
"What's that? You've all been festering for thousands of years, well never mind here's some blood/your soul back, you'll be quipping again in moments".
You may as well just throw in Umah for the hell of it too, no wait we hated her, forget it.

All in all though a fantastic bit of work.
(I really should check in here more often.)
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  #31  
Old 04-23-2012, 10:33 PM
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good to see you back Rob
you missed a lot while you were gone!
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2012, 05:14 PM
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Thanks everyone for watching and comments! Jake and I wish that we could make the cutscene in more details, but we were limited in many ways (time, engine, etc.) but we are happy that many of you like it. Jake would also like to do a more advanced CGI style cutscene later.

Alas, though I did the recording for the Priestess and Jake did for the human guard, the recording equipment quality just wasnīt on par with Stevenīs so we decided to use the Priestessī original line from SR1 and a hunter from SR1. I contributed though in other areas (editing, putting music in, etc.)
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  #33  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:21 AM
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First of all, AMAZING work!!! I do compliment myself with Jake, that did a wonderful work!! And I have to say, except some details, this is averagely what I imagined the ending would have been. I'll explain myself. Although I didn't quite catch the demon dimension thing and the prophecy, rescuing Janos is what I would have done if I were Kain and the resurrection of Raziel is quite an idea! that thing of the true body still in the center of the abyss is genial!

So things I praise (included of course the awsome job of making those videos):
- Janos saved
- the Balance Emblem complete (that was quite a point!)
- the resurrection of Raziel
- the destruction of EG
- the restoration of Nosgoth and the Pillars (quite a scene, the Pillars breaking the ceiling and piercing the clouds, letting the sun finally shine upon the land)
- a new kingdom led by Kain, with the aid of Janos, Vorador and Raziel

Things that didn't seem to fit in or on which I disagree:
-the Demon Dimension being an alternate plane of existence (I believe it's a completely different world, apart from Nosgoth)
- the lost city (thought it didn't fit in BO, thus it doesn't here as well)
- Vorador in the demon dimension (how did he get there?? )
- the Balance Emblem opening the way to the DD like it was meant to (among the various function of that Emblem, yes, there was the chance to open portals to wherever you wanted to, but I don't think it was meant to led to the DD)

-return to the future Nosgoth (why would have done that? since they broke the continuum, both with the unforseen resurection of Kain, the purification of him and Raziel and the restoration of the Sword, now complete like never before, that future shouldn't exist anymore... of course, till the definitive defeat of EG, that controls time and the continuum, anything can happen, but Kain should pass the Reaver to his younger self (actually merging with him - some sort of mental tranfer of memories, so that younger Kain can avoid to make the same mistakes that old Kain did in his youth) and then disappear because the future from which he came is no longer: defeating EG and his fake continuum reshuffle the whole future, from that precise moment history as we know it (the future seen in the games) is deleted and a whole new range of possibilities open up - the Wheel is broken and time goes in circles no longer, returns to be linear as ours... for this matter I suggest a website quite interesting that explains time quandaries such as this (browse a little, it doesn't have all types of Time paradoxes right in the main page) (btw, LoK is quoted among its list of VGs that include time paradoxes ). http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...emporalParadox
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  #34  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:21 AM
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Sorry but I have to argue with the negative points Guardian of Spirit has just raised (though not the positive ones obviously)

1 - We see the Demon Dimension briefly in Defiance when Kain is temporarily sent there and it does appear as a shadowy distorted version of the Nosgoth we know, he is in the pit that Turel was imprisoned in.
- Think of the DD as being similar to the Spectral Realm but with even further distortions from the base realm of Nosgoth. The Spectral Realm is closest to Nosgoth's reality (with just subtle deviations in geography) but the Hylden were banished to a much further realm (with much higher deviations, eg lost cities being less lost).

2- No wait, I covered 2 in 1. I'll just say it needs a clearer explanation of its origins and purpose in Nosgoth.

3 - Having Vorador trapped in the Demon Dimension makes perfect sense. It's very plausible that Janos left him where he was when he went to his ill fated confrontation with the Hylden Lord. With Vorador being injured and at almost ground zero when the Hylden gate blew he could have easily been caught up in its effects. This also gives a great explanation of how he disappeared before the events of SR1 came about again (I think most theories went with Kain killing him as a threat to his empire).

4 - Uum, OK I wasn't paying enough attention to this one, I'll not argue either way.

5 well this one's big - Sorry but returning to the future is the only way the story can end/continue. None of the events of SR1 were changed in any meaningful way by the climax of Defiance because the timeline does not work that way (in the LoKverse).
If this future were erased then Kain's past (in that future) would also be erased, he can't pull off fancy tricks like merging his consciousness with his past or warning his past self of danger because the timeline is never shattered, just subtly reshuffled. The point when the timeline was changed was when Kain saved Raziel at the climax of SR2 and everything that we have seen since then came into being at that point.
The timeline is changed yet it still reshuffles itself around new events with minimal changes. Even though the Hylden get released (Defiance) history shuffles around them and they get re-sealed away again (BO2) and history continues on to create Kain's empire as before. BO2 just occupies a few hundred years between BO1 and the described past of SR1, maybe the Empire was delayed a bit (maybe not, maybe Kain took a 400year holiday in the original timeline) but in the end it made no real difference to history.
Only in the future can Kain now effect any real change without adversely affecting his past (which the timeline does not allow).
The only odd piece was Vorador. The Hylden escaped but got sealed away again, Janos was resurrected but got sealed away as well, both these parties would have changed the standard timeline just by existing so history removed them, the only exception was Vorador's resurrection but with this story that is fixed too. Janos, Vorador, Raziel and Kain are all now alive when they should not have been, in order for them to shape history again they must do it in the time after SR1 to avoid causing any more trouble to the big timey wimey ball of chaos that is Nosgoth's history.

PS I am however a huge fan of the website you've linked to - TV Tropes. Warning for first time viewers - it can get very addictive wiki-walking through it.
Just one issue about the linked page though - The description of Lok makes a statement that I've seen multiple times applied to LoK but which I believe to be false - Maybe I've got it wrong but I really don't think so, if I have could someone please correct me now with a statement set in stone.
The quote is this -
"The only way to truly alter time is to cause a paradox by bringing the same object or person from one time into close proximity with itself in a completely different time."
To my knowledge there is only ONE item that can change history by coming into contact with its past self and that is the Wraith Blade - Raziel's Soul in sword form, not Raziel's soul, not the Blood Reaver and not any old random object or Soul. Only the Soul Reaver with the Wraith Blade trapped within or its pure unbound self (attached to wraith Raz or not). There was something unique created when Raziel's soul merged with the magic of the Blood Reaver and it is this that matters not just objects meeting in time, Nothing else will work.

Oh yes and thanks to Majinkura welcoming me back. You might want to change your quote though, it seems a bit sarcastic to welcome someone and immediately ask them if they're trying to bore you to death
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Last edited by The Hylden; 04-27-2012 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Please do not double post. Use the edit feature.
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  #35  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ChocolateRob View Post
Oh yes and thanks to Majinkura welcoming me back. You might want to change your quote though, it seems a bit sarcastic to welcome someone and immediately ask them if they're trying to bore you to death

your welcome, and you were reading my sig quote there,LOL so technically every message i post is telling everyone they're boring :P
(didn't you notice the line.)
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  #36  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateRob View Post
Sorry but I have to argue with the negative points Guardian of Spirit has just raised (though not the positive ones obviously)

1 - We see the Demon Dimension briefly in Defiance when Kain is temporarily sent there and it does appear as a shadowy distorted version of the Nosgoth we know, he is in the pit that Turel was imprisoned in.
- Think of the DD as being similar to the Spectral Realm but with even further distortions from the base realm of Nosgoth. The Spectral Realm is closest to Nosgoth's reality (with just subtle deviations in geography) but the Hylden were banished to a much further realm (with much higher deviations, eg lost cities being less lost).
mmmh, ok! it makes sense after all! that's why demons can shift to the Spectral to chase Raziel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateRob View Post
2- No wait, I covered 2 in 1. I'll just say it needs a clearer explanation of its origins and purpose in Nosgoth.
Yep, didn't understand what the Lost City exactly was meant to be in BO1 - should be explained better...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateRob View Post
3 - Having Vorador trapped in the Demon Dimension makes perfect sense. It's very plausible that Janos left him where he was when he went to his ill fated confrontation with the Hylden Lord. With Vorador being injured and at almost ground zero when the Hylden gate blew he could have easily been caught up in its effects. This also gives a great explanation of how he disappeared before the events of SR1 came about again (I think most theories went with Kain killing him as a threat to his empire).
Aahhhhh, now it makes sense! yes!

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Originally Posted by ChocolateRob View Post
5 well this one's big - Sorry but returning to the future is the only way the story can end/continue. None of the events of SR1 were changed in any meaningful way by the climax of Defiance because the timeline does not work that way (in the LoKverse).
If this future were erased then Kain's past (in that future) would also be erased, he can't pull off fancy tricks like merging his consciousness with his past or warning his past self of danger because the timeline is never shattered, just subtly reshuffled. The point when the timeline was changed was when Kain saved Raziel at the climax of SR2 and everything that we have seen since then came into being at that point.
The timeline is changed yet it still reshuffles itself around new events with minimal changes. Even though the Hylden get released (Defiance) history shuffles around them and they get re-sealed away again (BO2) and history continues on to create Kain's empire as before. BO2 just occupies a few hundred years between BO1 and the described past of SR1, maybe the Empire was delayed a bit (maybe not, maybe Kain took a 400year holiday in the original timeline) but in the end it made no real difference to history.
Only in the future can Kain now effect any real change without adversely affecting his past (which the timeline does not allow).
The only odd piece was Vorador. The Hylden escaped but got sealed away again, Janos was resurrected but got sealed away as well, both these parties would have changed the standard timeline just by existing so history removed them, the only exception was Vorador's resurrection but with this story that is fixed too. Janos, Vorador, Raziel and Kain are all now alive when they should not have been, in order for them to shape history again they must do it in the time after SR1 to avoid causing any more trouble to the big timey wimey ball of chaos that is Nosgoth's history.
.... head hurts >_< I won't question your word, I'll trust what you said as true - too complicated for me to understand! lol
but when Kain & Raziel defeat EG in the future then should be when all history changes...changing as well the past.... but I'll stay with your words. XD And another thing, the future Nosgoth is almost without life - humans are few, close to extinction and vampires are beasts... the world is just ruins, without trees, grass, water, just rock and dust... is a dead world! even with the Pillars restored (that could give life to Nosgoth - so new pretty flowers popping from the ground lol) how can Nosgoth be repopulated again? vampires would heal from degeneration, regaining their "humanity" (been sentient creatures like the old vampires or like humans) and that would be the easy part, but repopulation? it would take centuries... rebuilding the ruins would be faster but still.... it would have been easier to take over the old Nosgoth, when it was still full of life....


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Originally Posted by ChocolateRob View Post
"The only way to truly alter time is to cause a paradox by bringing the same object or person from one time into close proximity with itself in a completely different time."
To my knowledge there is only ONE item that can change history by coming into contact with its past self and that is the Wraith Blade
That sentence was in the website I linked or just somewhere else? because if it was there then I would say it's just a general sentence - the wraith blade does that only in the LoKverse
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  #37  
Old 04-28-2012, 12:15 AM
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Guardian Spirit: Thanks for watching and comment! ChocolateRob kinda beat me to explaining those points though xD

About Lost City: Amy Henning said that there is a connection between the Lost City and The Lake of the Dead, so Jake built upon that idea. Demon dimension is basically like spectral realm, a twisted version of the world inhabited by Demons (and later, the Hylden).

About changing the past - on the contrary, we devised the story in order to avoid changing the past in particular. Me and Jake believe that venturing into the future is the only way that the past will stay intact and no paradoxes would be introduced to avoid being expelled from time (as Kain warns Raziel in SR2). Kain canīt fight Elder in any other era than post-future SR1, so it wonīt negate any of the events which lead Kain to that point in story.

About the balance emblem - it is primarily used to activate the restoration of the Pillars.

About repopulation of Nosgoth - With the help of Janos and Vorador, Kain could turn new selected guardians into vampires and also Kain could now raise vampires as his own without them devolving later (as he got rid of his corruption). I think it is possible that Nosgoth would thrive again. Though I think Kain would have killed the remaining vampires which were raised back when he was still corrupted (they were descending into madness over all those years).
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Raina Audron View Post
Guardian Spirit: Thanks for watching and comment! ChocolateRob kinda beat me to explaining those points though xD

About Lost City: Amy Henning said that there is a connection between the Lost City and The Lake of the Dead, so Jake built upon that idea. Demon dimension is basically like spectral realm, a twisted version of the world inhabited by Demons (and later, the Hylden).

About changing the past - on the contrary, we devised the story in order to avoid changing the past in particular. Me and Jake believe that venturing into the future is the only way that the past will stay intact and no paradoxes would be introduced to avoid being expelled from time (as Kain warns Raziel in SR2). Kain canīt fight Elder in any other era than post-future SR1, so it wonīt negate any of the events which lead Kain to that point in story.

About the balance emblem - it is primarily used to activate the restoration of the Pillars.

About repopulation of Nosgoth - With the help of Janos and Vorador, Kain could turn new selected guardians into vampires and also Kain could now raise vampires as his own without them devolving later (as he got rid of his corruption). I think it is possible that Nosgoth would thrive again. Though I think Kain would have killed the remaining vampires which were raised back when he was still corrupted (they were descending into madness over all those years).
You're right! I forgot that dialogue... "And if events cannot be reshuffled to accommodate the change?" "It is the irritant who’s expelled. "
Guess time quandaries are not my field - my mind stops working when I try to understand them!
About repopulation, again you're right - forgot now that there are both Janos and Vorador new vampires can be raised, pure from corruption, although they won't be like the Ancients anymore: like Kain said, "I might restore the world, perhaps, but never again will I be able to give Nosgoth back her innocence"
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:09 PM
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it's slightly safer for scion buddy to stick with the future from now on, since he's basically just scored a victory over the past and doesn't want to mess that up. But if he uncovers a good reason to go back into the era of the Ancients he CAN still visit any time period if it's worth taking the risk. (And if the time machine reaches that far back).

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there is a connection between the Lost City and The Lake of the Dead.
I had this all figured out a few years ago. It's still somewhere in my notes. Basically, the job was to explain why werewolves were running rampant in the City, why the City's pre-werewolf population had felt the need to set up shop at the bottom of a lake, why dark forces had reason to curse them and then still chase after them down into the depths to drown the city and take up residence in its ruins, and how they did that. I was of the opinion that the coolest way to ruin the city would be to have Elder crawl overland to do it himself (marring the landscape with his passage and transforming what had been a peaceful lake on the original game's map into the torrent of flood waters we know as the "abyss.") His own digging efforts combined with the destructive power of the inrushing waters. It was the hammer that broke the city wide open and drowned it. Obviously, there was something there that needed to be gotten rid of. Raziel's comments about how "I awoke to find the world changed" made it sound like the abyss (Lake of the Dead) was the one thing that had remained the same during his long nap. So that means if Elder did in fact change the landscape to get at the city, it was done centuries earlier (before the empire's heyday), and then necrovamps found the changed abyss and thought it would make a nice setting for their death sentences. This would imply that Elder wanted to beat someone to the punch before the City's secrets could be uncovered by the new necromantic threat. So I also had Kain slated to visit the Lost City for similar reasons (disconnecting Elder from his seat of power), but I never shifted the City to another dimension. It was still right where it always had been, just very wet, and therefore inaccessible to the scion. So Kain was going to inherit Raziel's swimming gift as a side-effect of absorbing Raz's soul shard. Cha-ching! LostVille access!

(I wondered if the Rahabim might have been snooping around in the lost city right around the time of SR1, so Elder couldn't wait any longer and HAD to roll the dice and release Raziel to kill off those wet vampires before they figured out the city's secrets!)

(Another cool tidbit would be if the Lost City was where Elder "burrowed deep" to hide after the whipping he got in Defiance! It doesn't quite work, though, because the Defiance beat-down he took wasn't part of the Soul Reaver 1 timeline. So EG originally wasn't running from anything when he burrowed into the lost city; he had a different motive for going there. However, in the new timeline that's unfolding, Elder HIDING in Fear from his doom may have replaced his original motive for going there and fulfilling that part of history?! )

Quote:
Demon dimension is basically like spectral realm, a twisted version of the world inhabited by Demons (and later, the Hylden).
Okay, so you're thinking it's not another dimension entirely but more like an alternate version of THIS dimension. The demons are already here, really, they're just out of phase like the alien invaders on that Star Trek TNG two-parter. Maybe. It's too bad the other world only made a cameo appearance in the last game so we didn't see enough of it to say for sure. It could be that portal rooms are the only places where the two worlds overlap and appear almost identical. Once you step away from the portal and further into the demon realm, it may be the rest of it is totally different from our world. Whatever. I guess the only reason I'm carrying on about this is it'd be kind of sad for demons if they had nothing to truly call their own, because then there'd be nothing new to see when Kain goes to hell.

Quote:
About the balance emblem - it is primarily used to activate the restoration of the Pillars.
that makes Moebius seem even weirder for how he basically made sure Kain got his hands on that emblem. I've always felt that it was iffy to have him handing that emblem over to kain all gift wrapped. Our Mod had some answer that kind of made sense of it, but I forgot what it was.

Hey that was a rousing moment when you had the vamps gathered at the pillars in victory. Good speech. It would be kind of weird when the vamps looked at each other and asked "Okay, now what? Who makes the kids now? Vorador? Kain? Does Janos start turning the guardians again? Or do we hold off on all that until we find a way to "unturn" ourselves?" Reproductive choices. Thank goodness Nosgoth's free clinic is open all night.
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