THE CITY WATCH 2012 - News/Tweets -UPDATE: EM & Crystal Dynamics collaboration for TR

[Viktoria]

^
Very true.

@DF. I imagine it's just a case of them "working together" on this one, based on plans already set in place. So I guess we'll be shown information when the time is right.. which isn't quite yet.

[zcapp96]

Originally Posted by xAcerbusx

I'm not saying I agree with it, for the record. At the very least, we could have received a teaser trailer when the game was announced. It's a basic courtesy, and Deus Ex fans received one. At least it hinted at art style and theme.

But EM has said time and again that this forum was set up before any work had been done on the game, including any storyline. What could they have released a trailer of?!?!?!?

[dda]

Originally Posted by zcapp96

But EM has said time and again that this forum was set up before any work had been done on the game, including any storyline. What could they have released a trailer of?!?!?!?

They could have produced some sort of teaser since dev started in 2008.

[zcapp96]

Originally Posted by dda

They could have produced some sort of teaser since dev started in 2008.

My understanding is that when the game was announced they were at the start of pre-production, which would imply that actual development started around late 2009 early 2010.

[dda]

If memory serves me correctly I think D'astous said early preproduction at the 'announcement' in 2009 (but I can't frankly remember clearly atm). However, there are 11 blokes pictured (oct 2008) on the team in the EM site photo timeline are there are dev resumes of people who started on the team in 2008.

They surely must have had some stuff about the game established at the 'announcement' date in 09, but since their T4 PR is a freaking joke we have nothing. Oh and obviously whenever D'astous has run his mouth re the game no info for us has eventuated.

Ahhh I overcame my slothfulness and looked it up: "We're in the early development stages for Thief 4..." <== May 11, 2009

[contrarian]

“We’re in the early development stages for Thief 4, but this is an incredibly ambitious and exciting project for Eidos,” said Stéphane D’Astous, General Manager at Eidos-Montréal. June 10,2009.http://www.eidos.com/games/

Shortly after announcing Thief 4 back in May (2009), we learned it hadn’t even entered pre-production yet. But, the project has made progress and is now in the middle of pre-production, according to general manager Stephane D’Astous. (November 2009) “Let me reassure you that the team is making leaps and bounds,” he says. “Personally i have NEVER seen a team, at this milestone (middle of pre-production) in such good shape!”
http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/200...in-good-shape/

Let's deal with the inarguable facts, given to us by D'Astous himself:

Announced in May, but nothing started until June 2009. Middle of PP met 5 months later. 5 more months (April 2010) and full scale production begins--I'm being generous today.

So, here we are, after 2 full years of full scale, nose to the grindstone, 60 hours per week, 100+ people slaving away,and not a shred of anything for the public. Unprecedented!

Anyway, It's unrealistic to expect it to be complete within 2 years, so I'm not faulting EM. But, it is realistic to expect some info after 2 years. Therehas been no info, so, by the laws of logic and deduction, they are NOT 2 years into production.

Since the game has been frought with numerous delays, I'd say they have less than a year of actual hard work into it. Unless E3 comes out with something, I'd say they are 2 years away from the game hitting the shelves. May 2014.

[Yaphy]

My guess is that Thief IV is going to be released for the next generation consoles since they happened to be much closer than we previously thought. That would also solve the mystery behind why we don't have any information about the game. They cannot release any information before the consoles are announced which will probably happen at this years E3. This is generally a good thing because it means that Thief 4 will have a lot more resources than we previously thought as well. I really hope that Thief 4 will be released on the next generation consoles and I think that it is most likely that just that will happen now.

[xAcerbusx]

Originally Posted by contrarian

So, here we are, after 2 full years of full scale, nose to the grindstone, 60 hours per week, 100+ people slaving away,and not a shred of anything for the public. Unprecedented!

Except, y'know, that whole Deus Ex: Human Revolution thing. Other than that, absolutely no precedent.

[contrarian]

One is not allowed to compare one's self to themselves when using precedent. We must to look to history and the general accepted practice. EM is acting in an unprecedented fashion when compared to industry standards.

[zcapp96]

Originally Posted by contrarian

One is not allowed to compare one's self to themselves when using precedent. We must to look to history and the general accepted practice. EM is acting in an unprecedented fashion when compared to industry standards.

Skyrim, not a word it even existed until less than a year before release. EM acting in an unprecedented fashion?

[Psychomorph]

Originally Posted by Viktoria

So I guess we'll be shown information when the time is right.. which isn't quite yet.

Eidos Montreal is waiting for the right star constellation.

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Psychomorph

Eidos Montreal is waiting for the right star constellation.

I like that idea.... set against two mystical moons, of course.

[Jenuall]

Originally Posted by contrarian

So, here we are, after 2 full years of full scale, nose to the grindstone, 60 hours per week, 100+ people slaving away,and not a shred of anything for the public. Unprecedented!

Absolute rot!

Games take years to make and it is in no way unusual to see or hear little to nothing about them for upwards of 2 years into development.

A very common saying in marketing - "show it when you know it".

This is in no way unprecedented, in fact it is fairly common practice and suggestions to the contrary are quite frankly ludicrous.

[Woldan]

Originally Posted by Viktoria

Not Thief-related, no.

Wow, thats kind of...depressing. Thanks anyway!

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Woldan

Wow, thats kind of...depressing. Thanks anyway!

Life is far too short to let these sorts of things depress you, my friend.

[Voodoo]

Amen lol.

[Viktoria]

Eidos Montreal manager says sophistication of games trumps new IPs

Eidos Montreal had a pretty good run last year with their stylish, slick revisit to the world of Deus Ex with Deus Ex: Human Revolution. The prequel successfully revamped interest in the cult PC series, and proved that revisiting old properties is not always a risky venture. In fact, the general manager, Stéphane D’Astous suggests that returning to older games may be the way of the future, and that focusing on new IPs isn’t necessarily the answer.

Speaking to Gamasutra, D’Astous said, “The buzzword I remember at [Electronic Arts] three, four years ago, is a ‘we need to spit out three new IPs per year’ kind of thing. It was a buzzword … Games are more and more sophisticated; it’s less based on one or two mechanics. I think this replaces the necessity of having new IPs.”

He makes it clear that he is not dismissing innovation and new ideas out of hand, but it is very clear that he realizes how much of a new experience DX:HR was, and how valuable that is. He continued to say, “if you’re able to bring forward an existing IP to bring new types of experiences, I think people will buy them, because they know they can relate to a franchise they’ve played before.”

Next on Eidos Montreal’s list is a revisit the much-acclaimed and beloved Thief series with Thief 4. If the reboot is half as strong as DX:HR, we’ll be in a good ride.

http://videogamewriters.com/eidos-mo...-new-ips-44125

[Viktoria]

Yes, I do know that... but as the individual articles focus on particular points, I thought them still worthy of posting in case content sparks further interesting discussion here.

[Ladro]

For you, how many probabilities to see the light of the sun has Thief IV?

[Rockn-Roll]

I am currently reading the Interview with Stéphane D'Astous which Gamasutra published April 9, 2012. I am falling on the guts of the interview like a news starved fan...which is apparently what Square Enix wants us to do.

Also, I've read the recent posts...since my last visit...and want to include some of my thoughts on the subject of when a teaser or other information has been released by Eidos Montreal.

I'll start with the title of the interview: 'No Bull': The Management Style Behind Deus Ex: HR's Success. This is a Thief forum with news starved fans, but the interview is about management of Deus Ex: HR...is it really fair to Eidos or Square Enix to treat this as having anything to do with Thief 4? Wouldn't we be making a mistake by taking the comments out of context? It's an interview about something that started 5 years ago and ended 2 years ago...old news even if we considered it news at all.

Now...I'll tie this up with the recent discussion on when we should expect (or expected) a trailer or at least something.

First browse to: http://eidosmontreal.com/studio/oo
Click the right arrow in the Our Offices app and go all the way to the right...to the beginning. Let's look at a few dates.

February 15th 2007 a press conference confirms that Eidos Interactive will be building a new studio in Montreal with Stephane D'Astous as General Manager. This studio will solely work on AAA titles for the new generation consoles; Nintendo Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3.

Click the left arrow two times in the Our Office app.

The third instalment of the Deus Ex franchise was announced in November 2007.

Here's the start of the wikipedia Development entry for Deus Ex:HR:

Deus Ex 3 was announced on May 17, 2007, in an interview with Patrick Melchior, the director of Eidos France, on the French-Canadian television show M. Net. An initial teaser trailer was released on November 26, 2007, and around one year later PC Zone ran a first preview which detailed some of the game's mechanics and setting and provided the first true artwork and screenshots.

Here's a link to the first trailer on Gamespot: http://www.gamespot.com/deus-ex-human-revolution/videos/deus-ex-3-teaser-trailer-6183434/
Here's a link to the Computer And video Games article written Oct 4, 2008: http://www.computerandvideogames.com...first-details/

How long after announcement did Eidos release a trailer for Deus Ex: HR? 6 months. How long until we got some details on the game? 17 months.

How long have we been waiting for something for Thief 4?

Return to the Eidos Montreal Our Office app and click the left arrow once:

Eidos-Montréal begins hiring for its second project Thief4 in June 2008.

I shouldn't think I need to say this, but nobody...not even Eidos Montreal is going to hire people and have them just sit around doing nothing. It is at this point...June 2008 that Thief 4 must have some design elements already in place otherwise they wouldn't know who would be best to hire...and development on those design elements began...something could have been shared with us soon after that...like whether we will have Rope arrows or whether Garrett will be the protagonist. Development work on Thief 4 is nearing the 4 year mark! We have been waiting for something about Thief 4 for 40 months! Compare this to the initial hiring and announcement May 17, 2007 for Deus Ex: HR and the release 6 months later of a trailer and 17 months for details! To keep us in this dark of a state for this long is very very unusual...uprecedented even for Square Enix.

All we have so far is a logo that has officially been deemed temporary and won't be the actual logo. Now we are supposed to consider a Deus Ex: HR interview about management BS some kind of Thief 4 news?

Something is really starting to stink. Some possibilities are that they didn't really start work on Thief 4 until August of last year...that would explain why there was no news...because there was nothing to report. But, that would make the previous reports about them doing preliminary work or hiring for Thief 4 almost 4 years ago false. Eidos and Square Enix are going to look bad no matter what they intended.

Keep in mind that what I'm presenting is not any kind of speculation...these are the official statements by Eidos Montreal and Square Enix. Everyone can come to their own conclusion, but my opinion is that either nobody at Eidos Montreal or Square Enix care what Thief fans are seeing or whoever is responsible are idiots. With no news for so long, any little mention from Eidos Montreal and Square Enix is going to be gutted and inspected one organ at a time...it's very doubtful that they can avoid bad press no matter what news they release. If they wait until almost release time all that will do is make us look at it as some new disenfranchised game release that was unexpected and not what we believed they were making because they never gave us any details.

Deus Ex: HR? I liked a lot of it, but the 3rd person effects actually made me physically sick...I actually vomited...something that I had not done for decades, and only then because I drank some tainted wine. But, that's history...not Thief 4 news. If this is supposed to be Thief 4 news then it's bad JuJu. If they do to Thief 4 like what they did to Deus Ex: HR then I may not buy it...I don't want to get sick from playing a video game. Based on the other statements it looks like they design and develop the game for consoles...for people sitting 6 feet or more from a relatively low resolution TV screen (highest res usually 1920x1080) and have almost no immersion. What they miss is that PC gamers sit just a foot or two from their high resolution monitor (typical high res today is a triple wide at 5040x1050, but a 10 year old single CRT I got rid of last year had 2048x1536). PC gamers experience a much deeper immersion and while taking control of a console gamers world and spinning it around might seem cool, it is like taking a tornado and whipping it down on a PC gamer...that is not a fun experience.

[Jace_Auditore]

Originally Posted by Rockn-Roll

Based on the other statements it looks like they design and develop the game for consoles...for people sitting 6 feet or more from a relatively low resolution TV screen (highest res usually 1920x1080) and have almost no immersion. What they miss is that PC gamers sit just a foot or two from their high resolution monitor (typical high res today is a triple wide at 5040x1050, but a 10 year old single CRT I got rid of last year had 2048x1536). PC gamers experience a much deeper immersion and while taking control of a console gamers world and spinning it around might seem cool, it is like taking a tornado and whipping it down on a PC gamer...that is not a fun experience.

I´m mostly a console gamer and I play console games almost at the same distance of my TV than PC games of my monitor.

I usually put a seat cushion on the place the red X is.

[Psychomorph]

Originally Posted by Jace_Auditore

I´m mostly a console gamer and I play console games almost at the same distance of my TV than PC games of my monitor.

I usually put a seat cushion on the place the red X is.

The main advantage and immersion driver on the PC for me, especially in case of a 1st person game, is the mouse. Nothing comes closer to the real life headmovement (the responsiveness and quickness) than a mouse. I know there is TrackIR, but I don't know how responsive it is.
Using a mouse in a game is like a gate to an alternative reality, in contrast to the robotic surveillance camera like view movement of a gamepad.

The mouse view turn in 1st person PC games became my obsession, almost a science. I pay alot of attention to it when I play, to analyze how real it feels. That made me a mouse enthusiast and I changed and improved my mouse user behavior in the past. I used to use a higher sensitivity (dpi setting) for comfort sake (too lazy to move the mosue around).

Today I use a pro gamer mouse (Zowie AM, though I want their new EC2 eVo), which has excellent tracking, very low lift off distance (so if you lift off the mouse from the pad it stops tracking/moving the view very early). Also I switched to very low DPI (450dpi, used 1800dpi earlier). While it requires you to move the mouse much more and lift it off often (bought a large cloth mouse pad for this), but the amount of capable and unaltered control over my view and movement in 1st person games was enriched by a great lot.

Often you see gameplay videos made by gamers where you see very quick and uneven mouse movements, I manage to move my view so even and fluent as if I was using a gamepad, at the same time I can vary the speed, the direction and the amout of view movement without restirctions. I am playing Thief 3 right now with this systerm and it's a blast of immersion.

I basically use professional gamer equipment (that includes an awesome backlit mechanical keyboard with red cherry switches) and use the same settings (low DPI, etc) as them, only not to be a good competitive player (I'm terrible), but to gain the most of immersion from my 1st person experience.


I am aware, that a mouse and keyboard can be used with a console system, but the problem is, that the gamepad is and will remain the main input system, which means games will be developed for it. The PC has the mouse and keyboard as the main input sytem rightnow and we all know what real (oldschool) PC games are all about.


I am not a console hater, I even enjoy to play some console ports (simple minded games) with a gamepad, but real PC games a different dimension. Console will never reach it, never.

I don't know if anybody can relate to what I say, but that's the gamer world I'm living in.

[L34dP1LL]

Originally Posted by Psychomorph

The main advantage and immersion driver on the PC for me, especially in case of a 1st person game, is the mouse. Nothing comes closer to the real life headmovement (the responsiveness and quickness) than a mouse. I know there is TrackIR, but I don't know how responsive it is.
Using a mouse in a game is like a gate to an alternative reality, in contrast to the robotic surveillance camera like view movement of a gamepad.

The mouse view turn in 1st person PC games became my obsession, almost a science. I pay alot of attention to it when I play, to analyze how real it feels. That made me a mouse enthusiast and I changed and improved my mouse user behavior in the past. I used to use a higher sensitivity (dpi setting) for comfort sake (too lazy to move the mosue around).

Today I use a pro gamer mouse (Zowie AM, though I want their new EC2 eVo), which has excellent tracking, very low lift off distance (so if you lift off the mouse from the pad it stops tracking/moving the view very early). Also I switched to very low DPI (450dpi, used 1800dpi earlier). While it requires you to move the mouse much more and lift it off often (bought a large cloth mouse pad for this), but the amount of capable and unaltered control over my view and movement in 1st person games was enriched by a great lot.

Often you see gameplay videos made by gamers where you see very quick and uneven mouse movements, I manage to move my view so even and fluent as if I was using a gamepad, at the same time I can vary the speed, the direction and the amout of view movement without restirctions. I am playing Thief 3 right now with this systerm and it's a blast of immersion.

I basically use professional gamer equipment (that includes an awesome backlit mechanical keyboard with red cherry switches) and use the same settings (low DPI, etc) as them, only not to be a good competitive player (I'm terrible), but to gain the most of immersion from my 1st person experience.


I am aware, that a mouse and keyboard can be used with a console system, but the problem is, that the gamepad is and will remain the main input system, which means games will be developed for it. The PC has the mouse and keyboard as the main input sytem rightnow and we all know what real (oldschool) PC games are all about.


I am not a console hater, I even enjoy to play some console ports (simple minded games) with a gamepad, but real PC games a different dimension. Console will never reach it, never.

I don't know if anybody can relate to what I say, but that's the gamer world I'm living in.

Careful about saying never, they also said that television would never be popular.

[Psychomorph]

You're right, console will be there at some point... after moving closer to what PC was. Infact that happened (internet, downloads, mods) and it will eventually continue somehow, but the gamepad reached it's limit and I doubt it will be replaced by anything else anytime soon. There are already things like kinect and PS Move, but it is about more than just a different input device. There are other things that make PC different.

[Rockn-Roll]

Yeah, I didn't think about serious console gamers moving closer to their TV and using mouse & keyboard for control to get more immersion out of their games. I learn something new every day, but I should have known. If I didn't have the money I have for a top end PC and was young enough for my parents to buy me stuff, and they chose to buy me a console system instead of a PC, I am sure I would move closer and get a mouse & keyboard for gaming.

On the other hand...most people know about the controller differences, but not the control system and how the controllers communicate with the game. With a game controller the controls signal the game which direction to move and it moves in that direction at a constant speed. The player has to time, by guessing at first then with learned responses, when to release the button in order to look or move where they want.

But, a mouse is totally different. A mouse counts how far it has moved and signals the game with an x,y pair indicating how many "clicks" the mouse has moved since the game last checked the mouse movement. This gives the player more control over movement by allowing the player to determine speed as well as direction.

Developing games for the consoles then adding PC support later causes the biggest problems for mouse gamers. The game expects the input to be the game controller. So, in order to use a mouse there needs to be some kind of converter which takes the "clicks" sent by the mouse and turn them into single inputs of a direction. A PC gamer who plays a game written for consoles notices a lack of control over their view. Some game companies actually replace the game's control system with one that expects the mouse input and gives more control to the players.

If game companies would only develop games for the PC then add console system support nobody would be able to tell the difference.