Combat System ?

[JoeKkerr]

Hey Guys,

I was kinda dissappointed wid the combat system in TDS
The animations wer nice but ...when we get caught or seen were der is no option bt to fight
the killing was pain in arse like Garett swinging the knife from his waist to head ..Kinda slow you know ? i wish animations were as perfect as when stabbing from back (like the knife perfectly went into back at a correct postion)

well its well and good if there are different animations for each weapon ...& if enemies get too close and if we're equipped wid bow ...Possibily melee with bow ? with low damage of course
I wud also like an hand to hand combat system takedown wid hands

wat do u guys think abt these ideas

[Hypevosa]

Combat sucked in TDS because it was easy once you realized you could just have the health potions hotkeyed and you could run up point blank and murder people without any danger since they healed you instantly. Needless to say, they need to either be very rare, or disappear all together.

I'd like combat to at least have the same depth as in T1/T2, if not greater by:

1. Having armor actually protect parts of the body vs certain attacks. Chainmail would not be affected by a slashing short sword, but a piercing attack like that from an arrow would go right through. Perhaps the guard is only wearing a chain shirt and helmet, so his neck, forearms and legs are the only bits that can be harmed by a slashing attack.

2. Wounding limbs has different effects. A wounded arm is bad for archers and swordsmen, a wounded leg makes for an easier escape, etc.

3. Having the aftermath of combat be why a player wants to avoid it to begin with. Painful gameplay should not be the reason players want to avoid combat - it should be something the player can make a good faith effort to master like all other skills we have in Thief. Instead, the reason it should be avoided should be what happens afterwards - the player should bleed and leave trails enemies can follow, serious wounds to body parts should affect player ability (think Deus Ex (not HR)), guards need to be hidden and blood mopped up lest the watch/ on call guards also be called in to supplement the normal force, etc. Perhaps some other missions would be affected if people ended up dead for one reason or another.

Combat shouldn't be the primary focus of the game, but it shouldn't be as shallow and painful as it was in TDS.

[wildandcrazyguy]

Combat is just as broken in Thief 1 and 2 as it is in Thief 3. Both games you can exploit faulty game mechanics to easily take on up to 3 enemies at once. In Thief 1 and 2 you can just run circles around both swordsmen and archers and repeatedly strike at them with your blackjack until eventually you get a knockout blow. I've done this so many times especially on missions like the opera house and Constantine's manor where there are lots of guards on tile floors that make it hard to sneak around. On lower difficulties the same thing can be done with your sword. Just for fun I played Lord Bafford's Manor on normal and ran around with my sword killing everyone in my way. I completed the mission with no damage taken to me at all because the guards are so bad at hitting you. I have no idea what "depth" you saw in this combat that was suddenly removed in Thief 3. At least the enemies actually hit you 100% of the time if you got too close.

The point I'm trying to make is that all the games have broken combat mechanics that you can choose to exploit if you want to. In all the times I've played Thief 3 it never crossed my mind to run around killing people and quaffing health potions because that just seemed inherently a stupid thing to do. To be honest I don't care in the slightest what they do to combat because it just offers more things for people to have fun with. For example, my first DX:HR playthrough I played properly and never killed anyone in the game other than bosses obviously. My next playthrough I just had fun killing everyone I possibly could. So really I don't care what they do with combat because people will just ignore it if they don't like it.

[keeperr]

I've never thought to kill a guard, i must admit T1+2 was easier to kill - if i wanted to. Like said above, there were instances where running wasn't an option, and I would simply keep wacking the poor guy untill near death with my blackjack. TDS i simply avoided a fight like the plague. I'd rather re-play 45 - 60 mins of a mission to avoid an instance.

What i did like about T1+2 was that I could BLOCK! This was a challenging skill with the sword - one which i could neer imagine doing in 3rd person - or with a knife. Still to this day i struggle, and not being able to run backwards either makes the decision to run or to defend affirmative.
I do not posses the skill to take on more than one guard at a time, and if he runs for help, god help me to take that taffer down before he gets anywhere.
The amount of time it takes to put away the sword, bring out the blackjack is agonising - and can take anywhere between 3 seconds and half an hour. Usually i wuss out and keep the blackjack at the ready.

Since reading this thread i have questioned my attachment to the sword, specificly - Constantines' sword. i never really used it unless against an undead, or a beast. But when i did use the sword, it was justified. The knife in TDS just meant rather than killing those beasts, i HAD to ghost past them. No option. A fight with a measily knife? ? I am not a skilled fighter (nor is garrett in my eyes) so a sword : yes please

[Hypevosa]

Depth doesn't mean flawless. T1 and T2 were exploitable, but still better because they consisted of more thought than holding down a button while next to the enemy and drinking a potion when low on health. There was blocking, the issue of distance and timing... it was just much better than the unblocking, unblockable, chest to chest dagger.

I'd rather have the old system with the improved AI that removes the old exploits, than have a shallow, unsatisfying experience that I had with the 5 minutes I took to try out the dagger, if not something deeper than what we already had.

[AnthonFTM]

To defend himself? Maybe he can choke guards or civilians when he doesn't have a sword or a blackjack..

[Izztyrr]

Hoe about his feet? "Boot to the head!"