Peter Smith - Shipping and Receiving - Banner Transmigration

[Sneak]

Hi Peter Smith and everyone else that is still slinking around here.

Hope everyone is doing well. The reason no one has seen me around here in some time is because I have been successfully Ghosting the place. Fear not, I put back everything I took except for the memories.

Peter, I have been talking to Klatremus via PM about Transmigrating those Banners that Old Man, you and I plundered many years ago. You went back in there some time later and found a simpler method to do it. Do you have a link to your write up or can you post it again? Klatremus is doing Ghost work in there and should have that info as part of his arsenal. He was also having trouble with part of our original method. It has been a long while since I have done it the original way. Once upon a time it was routine for me but I right now can't remember all of the mechanics. Might be time for a run down memory Lane. Thief always seems to draw me back.

[Klatremus]

Yeah I'm really stumped here. I only need to break free from that north one, the deskside banner. I can transmigrate the southern one (the one by the door) in minutes, and the loot from the other chest is easy now. I just cannot release myself from the outermost layer on the north side. I've read a few methods from the archived threads but am still unsuccessful here. Any input is valued.

[theBlackman]

Hey Sneak. We have wondered if you were still kicking.

clayman asked about you quite a while ago.

What's up?

[Old Man]

Who you don't run across when you're out without your gun. Hi, Sneak! Glad to see you're still about.

I did a Ghost playthrough of Shipping & Receiving a while back. Well, the video I made is dated January 2007 so that will have to qualify as 'a while back.' Anyhow my recollection is that I too could not remember the keystrokes required to manage the banners and that I tried to copy the techniques from your original Ghost report if that's still accessible. Good luck.

[Peter Smith]

Hi Sneak and Old Man, Klatremus, too!

I have the documents on transmigration as a set of HTML files. Problem is my current ISP has no file / web page hosting, so I need a permanent place for it. Do you guys know how to handle that?

Maybe Klatremus could put it up on his Thief site, and make a link here. Let me know how to proceed. PM me here and I'll send you my e-mail address. It is the same as before except that comcast has been replaced by gmail.

[Klatremus]

Wow I almost feel intimidated in the presence of all you Ghosting gurus

Thanks Peter, I'll take a look at those files any day of the week. I'll PM you and put them on my site. I'll post a link here once it's done.

[Klatremus]

Here is Peter's writeup on the transmigration perfected. I have tried to duplicate this technique for about 30 minutes now but remain unsuccessful. I am beginning to think it might be a CPU issue and that perhaps on faster computers it is harder. It would be nice if people in here could try to use Peter's method to completely transmigrate either of the banners. Peter did it 5 times on the deskside banner and in 2 minutes on the starboard one.

I am a little confused about the exact placement of the arrow. Should it be so that when you walk sideways facing the arrow the rope moves a little bit, indicating the front of Garrett's body touching it? Or should it be so that Garrett's body migrates into the rope itself, thereby having the rope cover the entire field of view? I assumed the former, but have tried by both interpretations.

[Klatremus]

Let me be a little bit more specific. I can easily attach myself to either banner using a rope arrow, then do a crouch-back-jump to the backside of the banner and a crouch-lean forward-jump to get close enough to highlight the chest. My only problem is to get deattached from the banner (on either side) using another rope arrow into the ceiling. I might have just gotten the rope arrow placement wrong, but then there is a very fine line determining success or failure. Your instructions, Peter, says to "jump onto the rope". I have not found a way to do this. When I jump, occasionally I get an elevated jitter, as if Garrett is trying to decide where to be positioned, but then I drop back down to normal standing position. I cannot crouch when in this elevated position and crouching afterwards does nothing. I am not able to hear the climbing sound significant to ropes and am not able to climb up or down or swing around on the rope.

[Sneak]

Hi Mr. Dusty Blackman,
I am still kicking and doing well. My business is hopping and I have no complaints. Just recently built myself a new gaming rig. So Clayman is still around also, glad to hear that. I may have to search back through some posts to catch up.

Old Man,
Since you didn't have a gun I hope you at least had a Blackjack! You know I think I still have those Shipping videos of your Ghost play through archived on a hard drive somewhere. I wonder if I still have the API or driver to play them. Those were like watching movie, just needed popcorn.

Peter Smith,
I have an eye on the fires out your way. Hope all is well. I need to re-read through your revised Transmigration notes. I can see another run through in my near future.

Klatremus,
I am going to go check out your site and read over Peter's Notes. Probably somewhere in the next few days I will make another run through that cabin and see if I can give you any help. Heck maybe we should all jump in. Might be fun.

Man there were some good times around here.

[Klatremus]

Originally Posted by Sneak

I am going to go check out your site and read over Peter's Notes. Probably somewhere in the next few days I will make another run through that cabin and see if I can give you any help. Heck maybe we should all jump in. Might be fun.

That would be great! I am gonna leave the cabin at least for a day or two. This situation has made me more flustered than normal. Not good for the health...

[Peter Smith]

Originally Posted by Sneak

Peter Smith,
I have an eye on the fires out your way. Hope all is well. I need to re-read through your revised Transmigration notes. I can see another run through in my near future.

Yes, the fires are worrying. Neither one is near my home for now, but you never know when and where a new one is going to ignite. Well, we have no earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados, floods, or tsunami, so I guess there has to be something.

I am sorry my old instructions seem not to work anymore. As Klatremus said, and as I noted before, it could be an issue of CPU speed. Let's hope we can still do it with persistence. I may head back there myself. I'm involved in a testing project now, but maybe in a couple of days.

[Sneak]

OK guys,
I went in there and poked around for a while yesterday. Not done yet. On the Starboard / right side Banner everything went just about the same as it had before. The only difference was at the very end where you are back on the front side of the Banner and crouched facing the far door jamb. What was different for me was that originally I leaned left and then pressed the run key and got a stutter movement. After doing that a few times I would come out of the Banner.

This time I did not get a stutter movement. What I got was when I leaned left and then pressed the run key while leaning I would upright myself from the left lean. I did that several times and then just reversed the key combination, meaning I pressed the run key first and then the lean left key. When I did that I started to creep forward so I just kept holding that key combination and would move forward and come out of the Banner. It did not work unless I pressed left lean and the run forward; while holding the lean; several times before pressing the run key and then the left lean key. But if I did that it worked every single time.

Not sure why it is different from before. I don't have the same comp I had back in 2000. And this one has Thief texture packs and wide screen and the frills to make Thief look better. Maybe that has something to do with it.

On the Port side / Left Banner everything was exactly the same right up until the very end where I failed. One thing I noticed is that when behind the Banner I had to make sure every movement was well lined up. I am not going to detail that right now because I am not done with this. When I jumped back through to the front side of the Banner, then turned, crouched, looked towards the door, leaned right and jumped; that was the last successful move I could make.

When I went to the door end and did the part when you lean and look at the box by the bed and jump I did rebound back to the wall by the desk as I should. And sometimes doing that I could walk right out of the Banner. But not even most of the time. That would have been nice because a step would have been shaved off the Transmigration. Every time I went to the door end of the Banner after that and did the routine to come out of the Banner, nothing worked at all; no stutter, no creeping forward, nothing!

I had to stop but will have another stab at it. Something is a bit different and I don't know what yet.

One interesting thing and am curious if anyone else can duplicate it. On the Port Banner after the first jump back through to the chest side, turn to face the chest, crouch down and slide all the way into the left side wall. Make sure you are firmly against it and look into the back left corner of the alcove. Then lean forward and jump. Every time I did this I was catapulted backwards through the Banner into the cabin and was completely free of the Banner. I played with that for a while looking for a new angle.

[Peter Smith]

Sneak,

It is not clear to me whether you tried the "new" instructions and what aspect of the new instructions didn't work. The idea is to plant a rope on the destination side while you are still trapped in the banner trying to escape to the destination. Then twirling on the destination side rope frees you, in theory. Did you do that?

[Sneak]

Peter,
I did not get that far yet. Was working on what I knew up to this point and what had worked for us in the past. I will spend some more time in there this week end and give it a good workout. I have read your notes.

[Sneak]

Well I had a short bit of time and went in there and just found and easier way to do the Port Banner based on our original method. I can get in and out of the Port side quicker than the Starboard side now. Pretty funny! Came up with it while messing with that move described above where I catapulted backwards back into the cabin. One very minor change and it works while eliminating the last step. Will line out the sequence later when I have time to detail it.

Sure wish we could record a demo with Thief about now. Would like to show the sequence.


And Peter, I played with your ropes a bit but ran out of time. I can not climb the rope inside the Banner yet. Might be my arrow placement so I will have to work with it and see if I can duplicate it.

[Sneak]

Peter,
Been in there for better than a hour this morning. Am working with your rope trick. I have not been able to climb the rope from inside the Banner at all yet. And I have placed it in a lot of spots. I have re-read your notes a few times now and paid attention to the pictures. I can get the rope set where it barely moves when I slide by but that doesn't seem to help I wish I had tried this before when you came up with it so I would have a perspective.

Maybe I need more information. Where exactly are you situated when you shoot the rope arrow? Are you crouched or standing? Do you jump onto it from a crouch or a standing jump? Are your pressing the move forward key when you jump onto it? Anything you can give me would help.

I guess the big question is does the maneuver still work for you right now? I know you were going to try when you had time so let us know.

[Sneak]

Klatremus,
After some fun in there I am able to get the Transmigration to work a bit quicker and easier based on our original method. A catapulting maneuver led me to it and I posted about it above. It works on both Banners for me in quick order. I wish you and Old Man and Peter would try it to see if you can duplicate it. I am going to list out the routine below.

Starboard Side Banner

1.Crouch in front of the banner toward the right end and shoot a rope arrow into the ceiling close to the banner. I usually use the top of that gold line beside the skull in the pattern of the banner as the gauge for about where to shoot the arrow.

2. Climb the rope to the top, turn around, make sure you are still at the top as things may jiggle around, then with your back to the banner look back into the room with eyes level and jump. Don't press any movement keys, just jump. That sticks you in the banner.

3. Remove the rope arrow, stay in the same spot, crouch and keep your back to the banner. Then press the run backwards key and jump. This will pass you back trough the banner though you are still stuck in it.

4. Turn around and loot the chest.

5. Crouch, keep your back to the banner and the chest in front of you, slide to your right fully against the side wall. On that right hand wall is a place when the shadow begins in that alcove and the shadow line goes from floor to ceiling. Turn your view so that shadow line is in the center of your screen. Then press the lean forward key and jump. This will throw you backwards into the cabin and out of the banner.

A very few times I did not come completely out of the banner and I think it was because I was not perfectly lined up. But if that happens just stand, turn towards the door and run down there and you will come out. But that last jump should release you from the banner.


Port Side Banner

1. Crouch in front of the banner toward the left end and shoot a rope arrow into the ceiling close to the banner. I usually use the top of that gold line beside the skull in the pattern of the banner as the gauge for about where to shoot the arrow.

2. Climb the rope to the top, turn around, make sure you are still at the top as things may jiggle around, then with your back to the banner look back into the room with eyes level and jump. Don't press any movement keys, just jump. That sticks you in the banner.

3. Remove the rope arrow, stay in the same spot, crouch and keep your back to the banner. Then press the run backwards key and jump. This will pass you back trough the banner though you are still stuck in it.

4. Turn around and you can see the chest but it is not highlighted so you can not loot it. With the chest in the center of your view, crouch down, lean forward, and jump. That moves you closer to the chest. Loot the chest.

5. Now with your back to the banner and the chest in front of you centered in your view, press the run back key and jump. You should not see the chest highlighted now as you moved back into the banner a bit.

6. Crouch, keep your back to the banner and the chest in front of you, slide to your left fully against the side wall. On that left hand wall is a place when the shadow begins in that alcove and the shadow line goes from floor to ceiling. It is the same as on the Starboard banner alcove. Turn your view so that shadow line is in the center of your screen. Then press the lean forward key and jump. Most of the time I will jump straight up but some times I did not jump much but did make a noticeable movement. It doesn't matter which happens as both work.

7. Crouch back down and slide a bit to the right away from the left side wall so the chest is in the center of you view. Keep your back to the banner, press the run back key, and jump. This will throw you way back through the banner to the cabin side. You are still stuck in it but not by much. You should be able to visibly see that you are far into the room.

8. Crouch and run down to the door end of the banner. Turn to your right and look out into the room. About the right spot to look at would be the left side of the box beside the bed. Keep eyes level, lean to the left (you probably will not see a visible left lean but hold that left lean key anyway) then jump. You are out of the banner.

I have done both banners over and over and over, even going back and forth from one banner to the other over and over. Please see if you guys can duplicate it. I sure hope it isn't machine specific. That's a lot of directions up there but it can be done in short order The Port Banner takes less than a minute and I have done it in 40 seconds start to finish.


And I sure hope we can get Peter's Rope Method working too. That would be slick.

[Klatremus]

I don't know how you do it Sneak, but it works! I don't have time to write much, but I followed your exact instructions and was out of the banner in one try. I think the key moment was step #6 which I guess uses the force from the left wall to propel you to one of the front layers. I noticed at once that I was much farther out when I did the back jump in #7 than I have been before.

I used a moss arrow to prevent the ship guards from hearing any hops, so I will go back and retry without the moss. I will also try the starboard banner this way and report.

I'm running XP 32-bit also with enhancement packs, scripts and widescreen patch + ddfix on 1440x900. I will be back at my house and Win7 64-bit 1920x1080 in 3 weeks and will try it again then, but I am fairly sure this is a safe method you've got going Sneak. Thanks a bunch!

Edit: Still no luck with the ropes though, Peter.

[Sneak]

Thanks Klatremus,
Glad it worked for you. I keep thinking there is still an easier way but have not worked it out completely yet.

If you want to try something on the Starboard banner do steps 1 and 2. Then crouch with your back to the banner, slide left firmly into the wall, put the left corner of the room in front of you centered in your view (maybe even slightly right of center), lean forward and jump. See what happens for you there. I have not nailed the whole thing yet so I can do it routinely but am working on it.

[Klatremus]

Ok, so I had some time to play around with this today. Your methods definitely work, Sneak. Thanks a bunch!

The starboard/doorside banner was easy from before, but this new method makes it even faster. Having looted the chest I can slide to the right, crouch, face the shade line in the wall, lean forward and jump. This will make me completely exit through the front side about 8 out of 10 times. If it doesn't work, most of the time I can head over to the door and inch out there by crouching and leaning within a minute or so. I tried the trick you pointed me out to as well. I slide to the left facing the cabin just after attaching to the banner, then crouch, face the corner of the room, lean forward and jump. Just as previously this propels me through the opposite side of the banner completely and I am free on the inside to do what I want. From there I can reattach to the banner and repeat the motion to exit on the front side again. I guess this is a good alternate method for those not able to complete the aforementioned method. Like I said, the starboard banner has never been the problem, but it was interesting to see these new moves.

The port/deskside banner has never been easy, but I am now able to enter, loot and exit within 1-2 minutes every time. The crouch, lean towards the wall shade and jump move is absolutely necessary. I don't know how you figured that one out though. It doesn't seem to do anything at first, but flipping to the front side I am always sticking further out into the cabin. The lean-jump in the door corner afterwards releases me easily. I did the move without a moss arrow and all the outside guards kept still. I have not been able to do a similar move as in the starboard banner by exiting on the banner's backside.

Hopefully we can get a few other players to complete this. Peter, you should really give it a go.

[Peter Smith]

I went in there, straight to the ship, and I have no rope arrows. Please give me a spoiler on where they are -- I don't want to replay it all at this point.

[Sneak]

Peter,

The Rope Arrows are:

When you enter the mission the first one is to the right side of the Building in the top of a big box stack next to the first shack where you can input door codes. You have to climb up onto the catwalk and jump off the top of the rail onto that box stack. I bet you remember it now. The second rope arrow is in Building B in the chest up high at the back left area of the first floor. This is the chest that we Ghost Walked through to get the spice bag. You can just rope up from the front to get the second arrow.

Have fun! I have been working on Ghost jumping in there.

[Sneak]

Klatremus and Peter,
Have been in there for a while. I am right on top of being able to use the rope to get hooked into the banner and then jump all the way through the banner from both sides on both the Starboard and Port Banners. Seems the trick is not only where and how you jump but what you are looking at and how it is centered in your view from side to side and up and down. Seems your gaze needs to be level. I have been jumping back and forth through the banners for about 20 minutes with only a few misses in the mix. Getting real close to a routine here.

Old Man, are you lurking out there by chance?

[Klatremus]

That sounds very interesting Sneak! I didn't even consider the eye positioning to be a factor when reaching ropes. Are you actually close to using only 1 rope to get all the way through, or are you talking about Peter's original one-rope-on-either-side technique that we couldn't nail above?

You don't have to be on the catwalk to reach the first rope arrow btw. You can mantle up the nearby shack, I found that a lot easier. It's a tricky one, but close to the wall works best.

[Peter Smith]

I am having a hard time on the starboard banner, the one to the left as you face the aft of the ship. Haven't tried the port side yet. My problem is that most of the time I cannot succeed with the forward lean jump to get into position to loot the trunk. I did it once, but after that I could not repeat it. The one time I succeeded in looting the trunk, my "perfected" procedure did not release me into the trunk space. And then I could not get back out into the cabin. So, I have to spend some more time on it, but it is clear to me that something is preventing my old method from working. I'll try again and report back.