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  #1  
Old 01-18-2011, 01:12 PM
soopytwist soopytwist is offline
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Default Quick Save?

If there's one thing that annoys me most about games these days is the lack of a Quick Save or manual save feature (I blame the consoles), especially in games of this genre. Having to rely on checkpoints is extremely frustrating not solely because of difficult parts of a game that you die in endlessly repeating yourself until you get it right but also the lack of being able to just save and quit instead of having to make it to the next checkpoint.

Anyway, rant over. Will there be a quick save option in Deus Ex Human Revolution (on PC, obviously)?...I sincerely flippin' hope so.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:28 PM
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I would just like to say that I appreciate your username immensely. That is all.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:38 PM
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There is a combination system. There will be periodic automated checkpoints, but you will be able to save at any point as well.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:00 PM
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What PC games are you thinking of that don't have quicksave, soopytwist? I can't think of any I've played recently that don't include that feature. Bioshock 2 maybe...? ...no, I think that did as well.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:02 PM
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Dead Space doesnt!

But it really doesnt need it
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quick save is nice. If people want to ruin the game by hammering the quicksave every 5 steps so they never have to fear failure, then that is their business.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:34 PM
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Yes it's already confirmed there will be a quicksave option. Thank god. I don't want to start over form a checkpoint again just to try a different route or kill a person in a different manner.


Quicksave> Headshot
Quickload> Legshot
Quickload> Try melee
Quickload> Try gas
Quickload> try stealth
Quickload> go guns blazing
Quickload> Try the cover system (well why not?)

Can't wait!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox89 View Post
What PC games are you thinking of that don't have quicksave, soopytwist? I can't think of any I've played recently that don't include that feature. Bioshock 2 maybe...? ...no, I think that did as well.
More and more games lately don't have the option (sometimes because they are just console ports) Red Faction: Guerilla, Bioshock for example. Also Hitman, GTA 4, and more.

Last edited by Zakka; 01-18-2011 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:09 PM
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GTA IV needed it bad. It's one of those no-brainer features. Almost every game benefits from it.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:12 PM
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I don't see why there would be no option.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:07 PM
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Having never played a game with autosaves (not a gamer), is there a manual aspect to it at all (other than reaching a checkpoint)? All save types potentially have abuses, but I don't think a game should lock me into a set of decisions I didn't make, such as when the family cat jumps on the keyboard or another person grabs the controller and ruins the moment.

Quicksaves are great for people who aren't fans of iron-manning, and great for experimenters and explorers (speed-runners, deconstructivists, walkthrough and helpfu-hinters, boundary finders, authors, people who like to examine the gameworld, and other aspects that fall outside the proper game), and those with limited or scattered play-time. It helps with real life factors that disrupt, interrupt, corrupt a playthrough, and especially those things that are outside the players' control. Some people are not good with hand/eye coordination, and/or fast-twitch and precision, and love the stealth play, taking their time to get through spots that others take for granted that they find tricky. Since Deus Ex is a thinking game that supports different fan-made playstyles, quicksave appreciation has become a part of the broad fanbase for reasons that simply do not interest others who approach gaming very differently.

I'm curious if any advocates for third-person view are against quicksaves.

Last edited by jtr7; 01-18-2011 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:00 PM
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I am very glad that they have a quick save option as well as checkpoints. I belive this combination system works best. However, I do not mind if a game uses checkpoints so long as they are incorporated correctly. So many developers place them in the worst places, forcing you to re-complete large portions of game if you die. Frustrating.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:36 PM
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Yes. I would much prefer to place my own bookmarks in the unraveling story, as it were, with hard saves for revisiting, as well as chapter-skipping for when I want to jump in to check something and help out fellow forum members with questions about specific areas.
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:03 PM
soopytwist soopytwist is offline
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Not many console games have a manual save feature...that's fine I guess, depends what sort of game it is; but for pity's sake, Black had just about the worst checkpoint system of all time. The final level was the worst. Mess up just before the end and it's all the way back to the start of the level for you my friend. Never did finish the game. Broke a joypad as well after I threw it all the wall.

Fallout 3 / New Vegas - makes sense to have a quick save. Singularity I recently played on PC didn't but probably didn't need one anyway because it was pretty easy and the checkpoints were plentiful.

Games like GTA IV, Just Cause 2 would benefit quick save but really they don't need one...just first person shooters with non-linear gameplay. FPS's like your Call of Duty's can get away without them because of the linearity design of the levels.

It is my understanding that Deus Ex: HR levels will be open-ended just as the original, affording experimentation in the way you tackle a given situation. Go through the doors guns blazing or pick-lock your way through the back door. A checkpoint system would simply not work.

Anyway, I'm happy as a pig in filth now that I know I'll be able to save at any point. Makes me want the game even more. I keep watching the E3 trailer over and over. I think I may actually cry when I get the Augmented Edition I pre-ordered the other day. The waiting is killing me.

@Ashpolt Well it was supposed to be Soupy Twist but someone had already taken that as a user name the first time I used it (way, way back in the golden days of the world wide web)...pass the marmalade.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:54 PM
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Agreed. Free-roaming games definitely require a quick save function. A system reliant upon checkpoints alone discourages experimentation.

So, hats off to EM for not falling into the checkpoint trap.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXeXodus View Post
Agreed. Free-roaming games definitely require a quick save function. A system reliant upon checkpoints alone discourages experimentation.

So, hats off to EM for not falling into the checkpoint trap.
I agree. Don't forget redoing boring parts of a mission after you failed one. Driving to a certain spot got really tedious for me when I was not allowed to just take a cab. (gta 4)

Last edited by Zakka; 01-20-2011 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:07 AM
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GTA 4 they probably didn't add a quick save on purpose. They fixed this in the liberty city episodes I read. It is a pain in the ass though not to have a quick save and one of the reasons which I never finished San Andreas and refuse to play GTA 4.

Good thing Deus Ex has it. It's not so much about hammering the quick save button, rather more about not having to backtrack an hour back. At least for me. I do quick save often in games but dieng is less frustrating this way.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:48 AM
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Last mission of San Andreas is such a PITA. I think it takes about 30 minutes, and there are no checkpoints, so one simple mistake will revert you to the beginning. It's already a great game but quicksaves would make it infinitely better.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:24 PM
soopytwist soopytwist is offline
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Of all the mods, trainers and hacks I've seen made for games I've never actually seen a quick save system added to game that doesn't have one. Probably impossible to do...probably. Yeah I know, some trainers have a teleport cheat but that's hardly the same thing.

I consider myself a saint for completing Vice City and San Andreas to 100%, certainly something that I'll never, ever attempt again. Not after the incident that happened in San Andreas on the twelfth ambulance mission, boy that was some messed up s**t right there. GTA IV and it's episodes was easy to get to 100%, it's just the tedious pigeons and seagulls that bored me to tears.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soopytwist View Post
Of all the mods, trainers and hacks I've seen made for games I've never actually seen a quick save system added to game that doesn't have one. Probably impossible to do...probably. Yeah I know, some trainers have a teleport cheat but that's hardly the same thing.

I consider myself a saint for completing Vice City and San Andreas to 100%, certainly something that I'll never, ever attempt again. Not after the incident that happened in San Andreas on the twelfth ambulance mission, boy that was some messed up s**t right there. GTA IV and it's episodes was easy to get to 100%, it's just the tedious pigeons and seagulls that bored me to tears.
Why would you waste your time doing such a thing?
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:40 PM
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Achievement whore
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXeXodus View Post
A system reliant upon checkpoints alone discourages experimentation.
Only if you're the type of gamer who can't stand the thought of having to live with any mistakes you make.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:01 PM
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Only if you're the type of gamer who can't stand the thought of having to live with any mistakes you make.
Yeah, you say that until the day that you pass a check point with almost no health, no healing items, and a ton of bad guys on the other side. Enjoy having a permanent save of you dying over and over.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shralla View Post
Yeah, you say that until the day that you pass a check point with almost no health, no healing items, and a ton of bad guys on the other side. Enjoy having a permanent save of you dying over and over.
Been there. It's utterly annoying.

Quicksave, or at the very least Realsave, is a must for exploration because it allows you the option to control your own progress. Quicksave/Quickload basically lets your set your own checkpoints, which is great for experimentation and exploration. It's easy to abuse, of course, but then again what isn't?
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shralla View Post
Yeah, you say that until the day that you pass a check point with almost no health, no healing items, and a ton of bad guys on the other side. Enjoy having a permanent save of you dying over and over.
Well that's certainly not the time for experimentation now is it. It's also not a problem limited to the use of checkpoints, players can manually save themselves in that exact same situation, and in my 22 years of gaming I've only ever found myself in such situations in games that use manual saving.

I think that for designers this is probably part of the appeal of regenerating health. Surviving the previous encounter means you'll have all your health back before going into the next.

When it comes to experimentation, manual saving removes the risks involved. I stand by my claim that checkpoints only discourage experimentation if you're the type of gamer who doesn't want to have to live with the consequences of your experimentation, which in a community that often complains about how games today are dumbed down I find an odd stance to take.

Someone earlier mentioned real life getting in the way, that sometimes you'll need to quit before you can hit the next checkpoint. The answer here is an autosave when you quit that deletes itself when you continue.

Personally I prefer the system used in Hitman: Blood Money, which allows you to manually save but limits the amount of saves you can make depending on the difficultly level. So if you're the type of gamer who likes to save before every action you take and load if that action doesn't work out exactly as you wanted essentially turning the save system into a cheat mode, then you can play on the unlimited save offering easy mode.

I also kinda like the way Amnesia does it, where for the sake of immersion the player doesn't save at all because it's not something the devs want you to be thinking about. Instead when you die the game reloads with you being in roughly the same spot as before but the thing that killed you is now gone. Of course once you realise that upon reloading the monster that killed you isn't just somewhere else in the level, they've been removed from the level, then some of the tension is lost.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:32 AM
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i have fond memories of Alpha Protocol, where there is a checkpoint where you are initially starting out hidden behind an obstacle. But if you have to reload that checkpoint, you are standing as upright as your seat on a landing plane and right next to a bad guy. Therefore you will suffer from the infinite head shot syndrome rather quickly.

edit: of course this is not the fault of the checkpoint system but rather a bug in the game. and more on topic i prefer a system that keeps my last 3 or so quicksaves just in case. I started to get addicted to quicksaving back in the day when all my Win95 games would crash in the most unfortunate moments.
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