Cover System Proposal

[jkruse]

One more quick question about this conversion to first person K^2; will you be applying it to takedowns as well?

[motsm]

Originally Posted by jkruse

One more quick question about this conversion to first person K^2; will you be applying it to takedowns as well?

No one even knows if it's possible to implement at all yet. I'd assume if it is possible however, someone will mod it in.

[[FGS]Shadowrunner]

besides a few hours of splinter cell, I've never played a game with TP Stealth or melee/takedowns before, so it's hard for me to imagine the mechanics of DX3, or how cover system applies to it. I heard we can stealth in first person if we want to, so how does that work with cover, is there no lean function, hence this topic?

In DX1 the lean function was disabled early on in multiplayer, I think by MTL. Players were abusing it apparently.

[K^2]

Originally Posted by jkruse

One more quick question about this conversion to first person K^2; will you be applying it to takedowns as well?

The simplest solution is to apply it to everything. That means, even cut scenes will be in first person, so long as Adam is present. That might not always look right... I'll try to find a way to distinguish between different modes, however, so I can give player an option to apply it only to certain things. So ideally, the launcher would have check boxes for each category, and maybe a few extra things, like disabling cinematic color filters, etc.

[IOOI]

You must have figured it out by now, but there's a way to use blindfire in conjunction with a MOH:Airborne cover system. That means you don't need sticky cover of any sort. Though, naturally, some objects heights will have to be accounted to allow the use of blindfire, since it might be possible to use blindfire when standing up or crouching.

Now, the cover system in MOH:A works by pressing the RMB (allowing to aim down the sight) and then using WASD keys to peek/lean. In the case of a game like DX, to peek/lean without a weapon in hands you'd need to holster it first.
Blindfiring would work by pressing a button (eg: Left Alt/C key), using WASD keys to extend the arm and put the gun around the cover piece (W/S=Above/Under; A/D=to the sides) and then shoot by pressing fire (left mouse button).

The best thing of this system is that, besides blindfiring, you can threat (extend the arm and put the gun around the cover piece) without exposure and without firing. (And of course, no need for sticky cover - at least on the PC, it would work well.)

[Ashpolt]

See, I really like the idea of true blindfire. It'd be a last-ditch tool, only used in desparate circumstances. When used with third person cover, however, it's not blindfire at all: it's just normal fire with a slightly wider spread.

[IOOI]

^ Yep. And just like with peeking/leaning, you can move the gun around cover with the mouse.

Note: Just edited my last post to make clear what "threat" means.

[oscarMike]

A PROPOSITION!

Most of members that are clearly unsatisfied with certain gameplay mechanics propose something that is impossible for EM to do in such short period of time! Lets face it, the game is done, it is just the matter of play tests and some rendering before game is released!

I think this compromise can please EVERYONE, both TPS and FPS fans and most importantly, these changes are totally doable in short period of time!!! I already posted this on some earlier thread, but I'm really interested in opinions...


Considering reg health:

DX:HR will sure have difficulty level (easy, normal, hard, deus ex, etc) Developers have every right to enable hard and deus ex mod (or just one) to be without reg.health! It makes EVERY SENSE! It's a logical and practical solution for given problem! They won't remove it, they would simply give player a choice, which is the ESSENCE of Deus Ex franchise.


Considering Cover system:

By simply enabling "lean keys" could make all this "cover system" dilemma disappear! I first thought of that but later I realized that that wouldn't be a solution, but more of a problem concealment! Why would I walk through the street when I can fly over it!!? Meaning that, while in third person by simply swinging mouse enables for player to see all the things his character couldn't possible see behind a wall or in real world!!! Therefore, why wouldn't I use this extraordinary ability if it already exists in the game!?? So, the only real solution for this problem would be same as for reg. health! Disabling and replacing cover system for lean keys on higher difficulty(hard or deus ex)!


Considering Retinal Prosthesis aug:

What was the main goal of developers for this game?? Among other things, to create an open, non linear, multiple choice and consequence, vast, cyber punk world! They've been doing this for 3 or so years and from what I've seen, I have no reason to doubt they failed! Retinal Prosthesis aug looks like very practical and "cool" tool BUT, enabling for player to possess it at the beginning of the game IS IN TOTAL CONTRADICTION TO EVERYTHING THE DEVELOPERS CREATED AND DX IN GENERAL!!! Having a large and beautiful world to explore and "conquer" but then at the beginning showing player where to go and what to do is just absurd!!! Like I said, Retinal Prosthesis aug is OK as something you can choose to have at the middle of the game, not to have it at the beginning!!
Bottom line; make Retinal Prosthesis non initial(something you begin with) aug but something you could choose to install later on in the game. Simple! At this point, every other choice seems to me as suicide!

[IOOI]

Originally Posted by oscarMike

A PROPOSITION!

Most of members that are clearly unsatisfied with certain gameplay mechanics propose something that is impossible for EM to do in such short period of time!

WHOA THERE! Calm down, son!

Jerion's just asking for some general ideas for a FPS cover system. Maybe he wants to implement them in some mod.

@

Originally Posted by Jerion

snip

The ball's on your court.

[Jerion]

It is?

Yeah, I'm looking at figuring out the ideal FPS cover system for the indie PC/Mac game I'm working on with some other guys. While I think HR could benefit with FP-CS over TP-CS, that's not really my goal here.

[IOOI]

I don't want to work with you - I'm full of myself -, but what do you think of my (non-sticky) FP cover system proposition? Does it serve you guys right?

[Jerion]

Right...if I understand what you're on about there, it could work out pretty well.

[Adam Moore]

Originally Posted by Pretentious Old Man.

Sorry if I'm being obtuse here, but why do games even need a "cover mechanic"? I mean, it's more work for developers for one thing. Rather than just giving meshes collision data, they need "cover" data too. Rather silly in my book, plus it's much faster to crouch and move and shoot than it is to have to push a button to artificially "snap" to cover. That inability to move really draws my ire.

My credo? Less is more.

I agree with the pretentious old man.

Additionally, cover has been overdone recently. Focus on what makes your game (ie. Deus Ex) unique from other games rather than adding their mechanics.

[Pinky_Powers]

Originally Posted by Adam Moore

I agree with the pretentious old man.

Additionally, cover has been overdone recently. Focus on what makes your game (ie. Deus Ex) unique from other games rather than adding their mechanics.

Then we wouldn't have had DX in the first place.

[Jerion]

Within and between well-defined genres, the route to creativity is through the innovative combination and utilization of pre-existing mechanics. As Star Trek has a habit of simplifying things down: You don't need to re-invent the wheel, only make a better one.