Why all the Thief 3 Hate?

[1337cshacker]

Personally I thought it was the BEST of the three. Yes the first two were good in they're own respects, but I feel t3 did a really good job of truly capturing Garret in his quest. I enjoyed t3 game play more. The over atmosphere/sounds (especially in the city) was STELLAR.

Whats the hate about? Possible third person? Turn it off don't use it in game then... Jeez.....

(btw VERY excited about t4 official announcement. As long as it's not a big a let down as s.t.a.l.k.e.r I think were good. Montreal puts out some good games, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory anyone? /pwn)

[Telex]

Because it sucked?

And your title itself is fallacious - the devs didn't even have the sense to call the game Thief 3. They couldn't even get that right.


And here's a link to the pertinent discussion for you

[Yaphy]

People hate it because its not Thief 1 or Thief 2.

[aegisknight]

I think its mostly what Yaphy's saying.

The two things that bothered me about Deadly Shadows was the 3rd person perspective, which just felt wrong when playing a game like this, and your massive inventory making the game almost painfully simple (I will be starting my 3rd run through it later this week, I don't even remember if there were difficulty settings).

I also didn't like the title. Everybody knows that a professional doesn't leave a mess

[ClashWho]

Originally Posted by aegisknight

I also didn't like the title. Everybody knows that a professional doesn't leave a mess

Why does Deadly Shadows have to refer to Garrett? Seems more likely to me that it refers to Gamall. Besides, watch the intro of The Dark Project again.

Some of the criticisms of Thief: Deadly Shadows are beyond ridiculous. Complaining about the title is way up there. But the worst criticism is from whoever complained that there was no mention of a Gray Lady in the first two Thief games. Cripes, good luck fleshing out Garrett's world if you can't add anything that wasn't in The Dark Project or The Metal Age.

[theBlackman]

ClashWho has a valid argument. Garrett, the Keepers, and the "Prophecy" are the thematic ingredients in TDS. As an extention of the Garrett/Keeper relationship, the plot line is acceptable.

However, as noted, to complain about the introduction of more historical background into the plot, is not something to complain about. It's not like Garrett's life and history was completely drafted out before TDP and TMA were developed. The game was not taken from a script carved in stone, and who knew that there would be sequels at that time?

A little more "flesh" added to the storyline (the grey lady for example) is not a reason to rant and rave. And with the limited history contained in TDP and TMA, TDS, if it adhered to that information, would have been even more boring and irritating.

[Telex]

Originally Posted by ClashWho

Some of the criticisms of Thief: Deadly Shadows are beyond ridiculous. Complaining about the title is way up there. But the worst criticism is from whoever complained that there was no mention of a Gray Lady in the first two Thief games. Cripes, good luck fleshing out Garrett's world if you can't add anything that wasn't in The Dark Project or The Metal Age.

I'm not super fussed about the title, I think it just represents a lack of creativity on the devs part. I mean really, was that the best they could come up with? Deadly Shadows? It sounds like a joke someone pitched at a meeting and then they took it seriously. If that was the only thing wrong with the game, it wouldn't be a big deal. But it was simply the first of many signs that this wasn't going to be a worthy successor to the franchise - it was emblazoned right on the cover.

In terms of the gray lady, got to agree with you on that one. Thief has a deep and vibrant universe. To assume that the only things going on are the ones we are exposed to in the games is doing it a disservice. I always got the feeling playing Thief that there was far more going on than I could comprehend, and that's honestly what I love about it.

[Namdrol]

Jeez, why perpetuate a tired old myth.
A few people may hate Deadly Shadows.

BUT IT IS NOT GENERALLY HATED.
YES IT IS A DISAPPOINTMENT AND CONSIDERED TO BE A POOR MEMBER OF THE SERIES.
BUT HATE? NO.

Why join a forum and start with a strawman argument?
Please read, think, digest and stop trying to cause trouble.
You are deliberately making the game sound worse than it is.
Why?

[CavaliereNero]

A 1337cshacker has joined the discussion. 1337!!! I knew Thi4f would lead to this!!! YOU HAVE DOOMED US ALL!!!!!!







...

[Platinumoxicity]

TDS is hated because of 3 things in general.
1. They took out a lot of things that were good in T1 and T2.
2. They added things that made it worse.
3. The engine was so badly coded that the fans couldn't fix the game themselves, unlike S.T.A.L.K.E.R which is a very good game when you add a few mods.

[theBlackman]

The opening post is a subjective opinion that is not borne out by the myriad of posts regarding the comparison between TDS and the other games.

TDS was not "hated". Was TDS a disappointment? Yes. Was it a "Bad" game? No. But it definitely was skewed from the original theme and concept we all came to admire and enjoy.

I found TDS to be excessive "Eye Candy", carelessly contructed (Textures mating poorly, for example), and dumbed down to the point of boredom.

The restrictive gameplay and over the top respawning of the AI was annoying.

As a game, TDS was not bad. As THIEF it was a fiasco of unbelievable magnitude. The inclusion of 3rd person view and a hammer for a Blackjack were particularly annoying.

The inability to BJ a sitting person, the contortionistic collapse of a unconcious person, and the bloody rampage of insanity in the streets where every AI was randomly killing anyone they came in contact with were particularly annoying.

If I want a "If if moves, Kill it" game I can find hundreds. As the main theme of the original series is "Don't be seen. Don't Kill Think before you act." I found TDS to be a travesty.

But, all that aside, TDS is a playable game but not a great game, and definitely NOT THIEF.

I could cite specific instances in the game where the developers set arbitrary obstacles to keep the players in line, but these will do as examples:

When you finally get the gloves, you cannot use them as you wish. If wall texture AAA is climbable then any place that wall texture AAA appears should be climbable. However, as we all discover. I can climb here where I am, but the same texture less than 10 feet away is unclimbable.

If you can jump onto or over a 2 foot high wall/parrapet here, you should be able to any place in the game. Sadly, it don't work that way.

[jtr7]

"Deadly Shadows" refers to the coming Third Dark Age. "The blue flame blazes, the deadly shadows amass, the pendulum swings in wider and wider arcs." Increasing imbalance, folks.


1337cshacker...you will never understand simply because you choose not to. You choose not to read the detailed reasons written out for those such as yourself who intentionally start a fight without research, or put words in our mouths when all you have to do is chill out and read what we've already provided in terms both simple and complex, brief and verbose.

Yaphy is only half-correct, and the comment is too ambiguous to take as a valid point when it is so open to interpretation. TDS failed to live up to what the earlier titles got right, and the stuff TDS got right wasn't the most important.

If you read the voluminous and detailed personal commentaries about why TDS is the weakest of the games, you will find that most hatred is targeted at the players, not the game itself, just as you have targeted us. Not listening, not learning, and perverting what is said will guarantee a backlash.

[Telex]

Originally Posted by jtr7

"Deadly Shadows" refers to the coming Third Dark Age. "The blue flame blazes, the deadly shadows amass, the pendulum swings in wider and wider arcs." Increasing imbalance, folks.

I didn't say it wasn't an appropriate title, I just said it wasn't good. The Dark Project and The Metal Age managed to be both appropriate and good titles, was it much to ask that T3 do the same? I didn't have much of a problem with the story of TDS, that's why it would have been nice if they'd actually picked a title up to par with the intrigue found in the story.

[Namdrol]

He threw a fire cracker in the room and ran away.
I give it 50/50 that he never comes back.
He hasn't been around to read any of the responses.

[jtr7]

I wonder if we knew him from a past life?

Doesn't seem like it, though, hmmm...

[jtr7]

I was talking about what the title referred to, nothing else.

[Telex]

Originally Posted by jtr7

I was talking about what the title referred to, nothing else.

Haha, okay. It's gratifying to know that it actually has some significance in-game at least.

[jtr7]

Haha! Yes.

Also, since it was Warren's title choice, and since he has authorship in a RPG module called "CityBook III: Deadly Nightside", it has his personal meaning, too.

[negative_len]

See, I knew it got some in-game mention... I like my version too, though.

[Herr_Garrett]

Jeez, no, not this shi.t again...

[jtr7]

Once every month, at a minimum.

[Vae]

Yep...standard duty...fend off the ignorance...

[theBlackman]

Don't confuse these people with facts. They have their minds made up and cast in concrete.

[jtr7]

Exactly. Gotta try to protect the newbies that may read OPs like that before they swallow any of it.

[Loup]

Originally Posted by jtr7

Exactly. Gotta try to protect the newbies that may read OPs like that before they swallow any of it.

Looking at the name and the reference to splinter cell and the general tone inte post I think we have encountered a troll. I've never understood why trolls flame, aren't they weak against fire?