Dawn? Limit?

[Nothke]

It was really funny in Thief 2 when you had those dawn missions like Life of a Party and Masks which lasted for 2 hours (actually indefinatelly), pretty unusual for dawn. I usually PLAY Thief before and during dawn, so its really strange...

So there have been threads with implementing a day/night cicle, but I say, why not limit the missions to about 2-3 hours, from the time nobles go to bed, till dawn. You don't need a full day/night cycle, just a little bit of light in the dawn. So that would make Thief more challenging, some missions can begin just before the dawn so you have little time to complete. (but I see most of people are against time limits, but 2-3 hours is not a limit for Thief, in Thief2 most of missions are finished in 1-1:30 game hours)

[Flashart]

I don't like the idea of a time limit as such, but if you had to get to a building, do something inside, then make your escape, what about traveling there at dusk, then when you complete the objective, the outside map changes to a night version?
Just the illusion of time passing.

[Nothke]

Originally Posted by Flashart

I don't like the idea of a time limit as such, but if you had to get to a building, do something inside, then make your escape, what about traveling there at dusk, then when you complete the objective, the outside map changes to a night version?
Just the illusion of time passing.

Yes but people (especially nobles) are not sleeping at dusk, and guards are still in day shifts

[esme]

I like the idea of time passing in the mission and being reflected in the day night cycle so if you spend 12 hours in game you end up playing a daylight level, assuming you started at night

this would be very complex to implement as guard shifts change, more AI enter the level to simulate waking activity, I can't see it being done as it wouldn't just be a simple change in the light level and it's a lot to ask for the few players who would take such a long time in a level

mind you there was the time lock easter egg in first city bank and trust but that was relatively trivial

I'm totally against any kind of time limit, I like to look around and time limits stop me doing this I just blitz through doing the bare minimum in order to get through the level before the time expires so I can get to a mission where I can take my time, time limits totally change my playing style, s*d not killing and being stealthy if rambo will get me there quickly then rambo it is, time limits completely destroy the game for me

[Hamadriyad]

I don't want any time limit.

[Fatherwoodsie]

I like the idea of time passing in the mission and being reflected in the day night cycle so if you spend 12 hours in game you end up playing a daylight level, assuming you started at night

this would be very complex to implement as guard shifts change, more AI enter the level to simulate waking activity, I can't see it being done as it wouldn't just be a simple change in the light level and it's a lot to ask for the few players who would take such a long time in a level

mind you there was the time lock easter egg in first city bank and trust but that was relatively trivial

I'm totally against any kind of time limit, I like to look around and time limits stop me doing this I just blitz through doing the bare minimum in order to get through the level before the time expires so I can get to a mission where I can take my time, time limits totally change my playing style, s*d not killing and being stealthy if rambo will get me there quickly then rambo it is, time limits completely destroy the game for me

mm couldnt agree more.no time limit. i think making a daylight cycle will take very long and push the release date back 6 months. and i would have to do some serious upgrading on my pc

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Fatherwoodsie

mm couldnt agree more.no time limit. i think making a daylight cycle will take very long and push the release date back 6 months.

And also, including a day/night cycle makes it more difficult to make good-looking weather effects and also makes shadows and lighting harder to make better for the gameplay.

[Fatherwoodsie]

yeah....thieves only come out at night!

[Kold]

Originally Posted by Hamadriyad

I don't want any time limit.

Agreed. Daytime levels sound like rubbish too.. Why would a thief lift a castle (in this steampunk world of Thief) in the day time if he wasnt trying to get himself killed/locked up?

[jtr7]

..................

[Flashart]

My idea was that the maps stay the same as long as you're in them and haven't completed all the objectives. You can take as long as you like, then when you exit, to say an exterior level, that has changed appearance (time), and allows a change of guards etc.
Sort of like visiting the Cathedral twice in TDP, you're using the same map, but bathing it in dusk colors or whatever, and then you can also repopulate the level.

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Flashart

My idea was that the maps stay the same as long as you're in them and haven't completed all the objectives. You can take as long as you like, then when you exit, to say an exterior level, that has changed appearance (time), and allows a change of guards etc.
Sort of like visiting the Cathedral twice in TDP, you're using the same map, but bathing it in dusk colors or whatever, and then you can also repopulate the level.

This was in T2. Sort of, it didn't change in the middle of the job. In "Casing the Joint" and "Masks" (I don't remember which had what) the other mission had fog and the other had rain and a lunar eclipse. Same building, different time and weather.

[PJMaybe]

I dont want a time limit. Ghosting a mission I've never played before has taken me 6 hours in some cases. I agree with jtr7; the idea is good but it would harm gameplay.

[kabatta]

The dusk/night/dawn changes could be purely aestetic. I find the guard shifts a good idea. It adds up to the challenge.

[Flashart]

I was thinking not purely aesthetic. If you traveled to the building in sun or dusk, you'd have say a change of guard shift so less guards but more light. After the job when it was dark, say security is beefed up but there are more shadows. I'm thinking it might be a way of getting a couple of "extra" missions free but without all the development.
Has any game beaten Morrowind for it's sunsets?

[Platinumoxicity]

Originally Posted by Flashart

Has any game beaten Morrowind for it's sunsets?

Far Cry 2. The sunset in the desert was nothing short of mind-blowing.

Although, a game that has dynamic day/night cycle always has poor weather effects because the dynamic weather seems to be impossible to be made look good at all times of the day. Rain looks good at dawn but during the day it sucks.

[DoomyDoomyDoomDoom]

Time limits are lame. I get so annoyed when a game wants me to do something with limited time. I prefer to take my time, soak in the atmosphere and explore the game at a leisurely pace.

I've played elder scrolls and gta games in real time because I hate how quickly they progress from day to night. Just bothers me to get some nice lighting/weather and then have it go away in a couple minutes. heh I remember a mod for vice city that had the game use info from weather.com so whenever I played the game it was more or less like it was when/where I played. Play at night the game is night, play at day game is day, play in rain game is rainy. I thought it was neat.

[kabatta]

Now there's the problem where everybody dissagrees.Elder scrools is the legacy of the heroes. Garrett, on the other hand is a thief that works at night and sleeps by day. By coincidence, he is a master thief too...ergo he can finish a job in a night.

[Vae]

As prevoiusly posted on the "Daylight Levels" thread.

Originally Posted by Vae

I think it would be interesting to have a level or two where there is a "sunrise timer" in which after a certain period of time the sun slowly starts to rise, progressively lighting up the shadows via windows/opennings in the structure. This could be implemented in a manor or keep mission or the like. Think of the tension this would add if designed properly.

Originally Posted by Vae

At a certain point or points in the story he could be leveraged into a late night starting time because of the immediacy of the situation, plot twist, etc. I suggested this idea for spice and creative difference in which 1 or 2 levels could involve a "sunrise timer" that could be beat even before the sun starts to rise.

[jtr7]

Maybe after the objectives have been completed (except for the one that ends the mission when Garrett leaves it), then the sky could begin to lighten slowly for the next two hours, while the player noodles around. Of course there will come that time when it will look silly for the sun to be up and no one is awake and starting the day.

[Nate]

I don't like forced time limits......BUT I would like to see households get progressively more busy the later in the morning it becomes (as people wake up and wander around, and the servants come on duty).

[Pieter888]

Almost everything named above involves some kind of time limit before something happens.

To avoid that, there could be some mission where you have to steal a certain item deeply hidden in a big guarded prison. once you've got the item, it will trigger a guard shift for the whole prison! the sky will only turn a bit lighter than before and because of the new guards taking position they might notice other guards lying on the ground unconscious or dead. This makes hiding bodies more important and even better, it makes using your stealth abilities to avoid any encounters with a guard even more important.

The above might just be a nice element to see in-game, there's no time-limit, yet there IS a guard shift, making the return from the item you got to the exit a whole different experience than you got while trying to get in.

Any suggestions anyone?

[jtr7]

Precious Cargo and Break from Cragslcleft were daytime missions. A good idea when entering mines without secret entrances and with places for light to come in. Not good for City missions.

[gryphos]

I don't know. The notion of the daring daylight robbery is within the scope of the heist genre. Just as there were other firsts in Garrett's carreer of daring heists, circumstances warranting a bold daylight robbery could be well incorporated. Only once, but still there.

[Yaphy]

Im all up to the semi-time thing. You can take as much time as you want until you've finished all the objectives. Then you need to get out, it will be hard and a little shock when you find the household waking up. Also you can take as much time as you want to escape, it wont get to be a day. Just before the sunset. Its a feeling of the time moving but its just to make it look good. More people will be walking around the place, eat together at a table, but it doesnt actually need to be brighter because the sun has'nt gone up at all. Guards will talk about the night shift and the creepy noices they herd or the intruder they chased away. It will be more people that might spot you, but more noise cover. so you can move a little faster. Sneak through the guards shifting.