CLOTHING: Apparel / Attire / Garments Discussion (Garrett & Other Characters)

[Espion]

*Moderator Updates* (from March 2013)

Summary of Info/Articles


Thief outfit display at PAX East.



http://kotaku.com/thief/

Originally Posted by Master Taffer

According to the Game Informer article, EM actually commissioned some New York fashion designers to make a real life version of Garrett's outfit to ensure it would be quiet in movement. Looks can be decieving like that.

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Could we have Garrett dressed up like he was in the first two games instead of the third. Specifically, please don't give him that awful vest again. Sleeves over the arms please, and if the player has a visible shadow, please make it clear that he's wearing his cloak Thank you.

[Viktoria]

A good idea for a dedicated thread, apparel is important!

Let's discuss Garrett and other townsfolk.

[Herr_Garrett]

Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

[Espion]

Originally Posted by Herr_Garrett

Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

I should clarify that I really meant the Garrett you see in the cutscenes.

If I recally correctly, the character model in Thief one was a large brown rectangle of some sort

Whilst you could see yourself in Thief 2 they were obviously limited by technology.

Now remember that, except for remote eyes, you're hardly going to see yourself beyond your arms but the main point that should be focused on is his large black cloak that he's always wearing. Whilst it's well established that cloaks are rarely practical, it's part of who Garrett is. With the tech as powerful as it is now, there's no reason why we can't have a lovely cloak that flaps in the digital wind

Oh, and also sleeeeeves! That vest really was nasty :P

[DarthEnder]

Right, cutscene Garrett in T1 and T2 is perfect.

Ingame Garrett model in T1 and T2...not so much.

[Moosemoose]

Originally Posted by Herr_Garrett

Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

Absolutely. The 'new' look of Garrett from John P was amazing. Anyone who hasn't played TDS with John P's texture pack definitely should. It makes a world of difference if you like nice graphics combined with a thief that looks like Garrett.

[Stoic]

Hmmmm . . . a cloak that tends to flow well would certainly be nice. I would think that the graphics engine should be enough to handle a decent cloak.

[Hellion]

He should DEFINITELY wear a hooded dark cloak as seen in the cutscenes of the first 2 games. What goes under the cloak does not really interest me.

[acridrose]

I for one see apparel as less significant because Garrett is not a very 'physical' character- he is a shadow and a voice, and this non-material presence that he is helps him sneak about. I think garrett should stick true to what he is in T1&2 which is a cloaked figure with a mechanical eye in T2 that sticks out through his shadow.. no more than that- maybe even faceless.

[Icky6]

Nice thread, and something I'd totally forgotten about. The big cloak is definitely part of Garrett's look. Not that I want to see him in 3rd person or anything. Just in cut scenes.

[Viktoria]

Just to say, don't get too confused between the thread title and OP's first post. We can talk about Garrett but ALSO other characters in the game when it comes to apparel.

EDIT:
I've amended title slightly to show that this can be a general clothing discussion for all characters, not just Garrett.

[acridrose]

Let's talk about our favourite wood nymph's apparel, Viktoria. What clothes should she have in this reboot of thief? dream on.

[Espion]

Originally Posted by acridrose

Let's talk about our favourite wood nymph's apparel, Viktoria. What clothes should she have in this reboot of thief? dream on.

Unless she's disguised and walking amongst normal people she should be butt-naked as normal... Though tree bark doesn't really do it for me... Kind of scratchy o_O

I can't quite recall what it was, but there was something that seemed very "off" about the character models used in Deadly Shadows. I think it might've been the zealous use of normal maps (which usually results in everyone having a shiny gloss to them) but I think they'd also altered the visual style of the Hammer's... I'm trying to find screenshots to remind myself...

Ok, I can't find anything at the moment and I'm being called away to play a game so I'll talk about it later, but there was something about them that looked wrong!

[Thieffanman]

Garret's apparel in Thief 3 was *okay*; the thing I'm wondering is, should it evolve slightly?

Taken Assassin's Creed, for example: the Middle AgesCrusades Altair wore medieval clothes. The released artwork for the Renaissance-era Altair has him wearing a short cape and a doublet.

So . . . if the Thief World has evolved from medieval village goth/steampunk, should Garret have a doublet, maybe a short cape . . .

Or don't mess with a good thing, and leave the clothes from T3 as they are.

--Thieffanman

[acridrose]

Originally Posted by Thieffanman

Garret's apparel in Thief 3 was *okay*; the thing I'm wondering is, should it evolve slightly?

Taken Assassin's Creed, for example: the Middle AgesCrusades Altair wore medieval clothes. The released artwork for the Renaissance-era Altair has him wearing a short cape and a doublet.

So . . . if the Thief World has evolved from medieval village goth/steampunk, should Garret have a doublet, maybe a short cape . . .

Or don't mess with a good thing, and leave the clothes from T3 as they are.

--Thieffanman

Although I HATE referring to Assassin's Creed on this board (just because they are very different games), you raise a very good point- one thing to note is the incredible design for Altair- his attire represents who he is very well, right down to the 'beak' tip of his hood. He is a good example of a genuinely inspiring character model.

[DarthEnder]

Originally Posted by acridrose

Although I HATE referring to Assassin's Creed on this board (just because they are very different games), you raise a very good point- one thing to note is the incredible design for Altair- his attire represents who he is very well, right down to the 'beak' tip of his hood. He is a good example of a genuinely inspiring character model.

Well, I love referring to AC.

Nevertheless, Altair's outfit, but in black, would be pretty epic. In fact, I already thought Altair basically looked like Garrett but in white.

[Hypevosa]

Originally Posted by DarthEnder

Well, I love referring to AC.

Nevertheless, Altair's outfit, but in black, would be pretty epic. In fact, I already thought Altair basically looked like Garrett but in white.

I had the same exact opinion. I saw Altair and I pointed it out to my friend and was like LOOK It's Garrett! and he was like "?" so I had to explain to him about the awesomeness of thief and who Garrett was.

[Limesneeker]

Actually the black leather cloak and clothing (included gloves) which Garrett wears on the Thief 2 box cover is nice....

[Flashart]

What about level specific clothing? If there was some swimming involved perhaps a "short" cloak.
Or a full length waterproofed (leather?) for torrential rain in the city.
The colors in TDS were a little washed out so peoples clothes looked very ordinary, it'd be good to see some bright colors, if only for ease of spotting potential trouble.

[Tatyana's Flowers]

Clothes from all previous Thief games that can change depending on mission demands...

[Espion]

Ok, I've found some good images on The Dark Wiki:

Hammerites in Thief 2.

Compared to:

Hammerites in Thief DS.

Besides the OTT normal maps that make the leather armour look like crocodile skin and the material look quilted, my biggest beef with the DS versions are the colouring and the complete lack of a Hammer on their armour.

In TG and TMA you get these religious soldiers all dressed up in their shiny metal armour, the bright red cloth, and adorned with the symbol of their church. These guys are meant to be religious warriors, zealots in fact, so they should have a little more identifying marks than the weapon they carry and the colour red.

Whilst the DS version clearly looks like they're going for a gritty, perhaps more realistic, look they've basically lost everything that made a Hammerite stand out from a common mercenary. Why are they suddenly wearing leather? It's not like the Hammers have a shortage of metal (they have their own mines, foundries and smiths, usually in their churces). I know they lost some when the mechanists split, but that should surely just mean they have a ton of extra suits lying around :P

Whilst I accept that they'd be dirty there's no reason why the red cloth would suddenly be so much darker. It looked more like the game was suffering from the classic thinking of "if it's dark/brown then it's more realistic."

These guys are meant to be fanatical and passionate. They're not gonna dress so drably and they're certainly not gonna go out with nothing but the Hammer on their back.

As far as attire for the Hammers go, I'd like to see something a little closer to the original design. It's still possible to make them look more realistic (if that's what DS was after) but they need to resemble a holy soldier more than a thug.

[Thieffanman]

Re: Other characters's clothes--

My minor gripe with DS was that the women were largely dressed the same: form-fitted dress. The only way to really tell if they were Pagan priestesses, ordinary townsfolk, or what-have-you is to get up close to them.

T4 should have different body types or shapes. Using European historical fashions as a model, perhaps wealthy women should be dressed in clothes that resemble gowns with hoops (not to mention *tons* of jewelry to swipe ), whereas poorer women should have simple, more form-fitting clothes with barely a pouch full of coins.

In DS, the wealthy men of Auldale wore long tunics that almost resembled dresses, whereas in Old Quarter and the Docks you had them dressed more like day laborers. I liked it; T4 should expand upon this.

--Thieffanman

[Squall]

Yeah the cloak is a must! It would make him lose his form in the shadows. I always found it a little annoying how easy Garrett was to spot in thief DS in 3rd person mode.

As for the townsfolk I agree that there should be more character models. Where are all the stooped hobbling beggars and shambling hooded shapes?

I just hope the engine is better for this game so that the fabric and hair can move better. If they can't get Garretts cloak to flap in the wind then NO 3RD PERSON MODE! Hehehe

[Hypevosa]

I agree, the Garrett from the first 2 games' cut scenes is probably the best model for what he should look like. In terms of clothing, just better looking graphics wise from the other games... maybe a few new models. Not every single piece has to be different, because styles were prominent and so people would wear the same stuff. Unique characters should probably wear unique things, maybe even have an unusually... fabulous character.

[Garrett21]

Garrett: similar to Dominus's concept