garrett and viktoria: it was most likly love

[antihero276]

does anyone else think that in the later cutscenes of thief 2, garrett and her got... um closer? he seems to forget what she did to his eye. and in the scene where she dies, just listen to his voice. "VIKTORIA!!" and "NOOOOOO!!" dosent sound like typical antihero garrett lol. im kind of thinking she was the only person he will ever love, now that shes gone, he will probably be alone forever. plus he dosent relate to normal women well, she was unique to him. and if she could take the form of anything.. why did she take on the from of a beutiful longhaired naked woman? lol who else thinks they were together? =).

[Odyseeos]

What got me was that she didn't show up in "Deadly Shadows".

She was a nature deity and should have been able to re-emerge from some leftover from the plant in the cathedral. Maybe a bit stuck outside the walls.

When she appeared again in T2, and the two of them got a nice friction going, I always assumed that Garrett and the Castrating Vikty would end up together at the end of the trilogy. It was missing continuity to me when she didn't carry the ball on into T3. All in all, it's pretty impoverishing to end up in an unpeopled library.

[antihero276]

hmm.. i agree, but i thought she died permanantly in thief 2.. the rust gas may have killed all the plants, remember how pissed off garrett sounded on the final thief 2 cutscene when he talked to artemus? "all this... it was written?... viktorias death.. and karras? was that written.. in you BOOKS!?" but with thief 4 coming perhaps she will be in it again. i hear it was going to be a retelling of the series, than she probably would be in it. if not, cross your fingers she returns. all in all i believe she was the only woman he has ever or would ever love. imagine the children they could have lol. heres hoping she returns for thief 4 =).

[Odyseeos]

Yo.

It would really be the question, whether she would completely die or not. But the whole idea of nature deities is that you think they're dead, and then they come bouncing back. Princess Summerfallwinterspring sort of thing; she lives in a circle.

If you take the Mechanical Age seriously, she is deader than a doornail. Karras kilt her. Certainly, you can go that way. Dark place to have to live in.
And heck, too bad. She and Garrett were terrific competition for each other.

Kinda interesting. One could think of it with some pretty obvious metaphors, global warming, say. She wins the war by killing herself. But if you go with that metaphor seriously, Garrett loses too.

And that's probably involved with the aesthetic thing that bothers me. Whatever the sudden introduction of a light from heaven was supposed to be, it came out as just sort of a god-from-the-machine that was ultimately an empty experience. Garrett loses contact with the player, because there's nothing in that light that internally happens for the player.

When the experience of that sort of light works, it's because it brings everything together in a surprising way, I think. It doesn't have to be sentimental, although it can be pretty nice when it is. And it is probably the source for aesthetic satisfaction... as I understand it, anyway: "Aha!" "Stung again!" "Whoa! what's that?!" "Was that ever neat." "Holy Shift." "Whew." etc.

What we've got seems to be a "drop this, drop this, drop this" sort of thing that ends up dropping the player's identification with Garrett. Maybe that should be so, but I didn't feel very good left on my own by the gods of the machine. I knew they were really there, so it just left me angry at 'em.

[antihero276]

that is quite true, she could come back from somewhere else. i think that if she did die in the metal age, the looking glass probably did that for 2 reasons: to show how she is willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good, and to show that garrett lost something incredably important to him. garrett has had lots of bad things in his life but i think when he saw viktoria die, it was the worst thing thats ever happened to him. i think its probable that she will return in another thief game. but her "death" was to show that even though garrett and her stopped karras, garrett still lost a huge part of himself, a victory against karras for an very huge price, a lot of suffering and garrett now being 100 percent alone in the world. i think it likly that this would impact his life forever and that this was the worst suffering he has had to go through: losing the one person he ever would love and care about. i hope he gets to be with her again in thief 4, or at least show the impact she had on his life.

[Odyseeos]

Excellent comments, I thought. I hadn't thought of the possibility of Viktoria leaving a sprig of herself at home. That's a remarkable idea. Maybe Constantine carried a sprig on his collar. Garrett returns to Chaos to dig through The Trickster's ashes.

That's the basal loss, I guess. No Trickster.

Anyway, I hadn't heard that anybody was planning a T4. I looked, and I can't find any new information on that. Letters here are not thusly revealing. And in a thread at "TTLG Forums", "Will there be a T4", all any of the letters are talking about these days is that, with each computer change, T1 and T2 are getting tougher and tougher to load and play. Also, there's a lonely "sticky" at the top that basically says, "To all who want to ask. No; no T4."

So, if you have other source, I'm pleasantly startled and gladdened. Garrett was the golden boy in the golden age, as far as I'm concerned. Those games were thoroughly ingenious and had some deep water you could live in for awhile.