[SPOILER] Three questions about the storyline

[spatrizi]

1) Is it possible that the Vampire-looking "messiah" in the murals is really the Hylden-possessed Janos and that the Hylden-looking savior is really the combined Kain/Raziel entity?

2) Was Mortanius possesed by the Hylden when he raised Kain? If so, is it possible that he was then "raising" the Hylden savior"?

3) At the end of it all, what is that the Elder God really wanted to have happen?

[Dogfight]

I'll answer your questions as best I can.

1. No, in Blood Omen 2, Janos gets thrown into the Demon Dimension. He is likely on his way to becoming a demon.

The murals represent Kain as both a Hylden and an Ancient taking down Raziel, who is both the fallen Ancient and the Hylden. This is Raziel's true destiny to become the Soul Reaver but only after healing the Scion of Balance and preparing Kain for battle against the Elder.

The final mural of the Scion of Balance restored, is likely symbolic of Kain's future transformation as a hybrid entity of both races.

See my old thread for more on this.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...threadid=30451

2. Yes Mortanius was possessed by the Hylden, but he turned Kain into a Vampire of his own free will. The Hylden in general don't like Kain, they believe him to be the champion of their enemy. It is not known if they knew of Raziel and Kain's hybrid destinies.

3. The events that were supposed to happen in Soul Reaver 2 but were changed was what the Elder wanted to happen. He wanted Kain dead, and Raziel as the Soul Reaver without fulfilling his true destiny.

[spatrizi]

Thanks DogFight, though I'm still wondering:

- Doesn't Raziel look more like the Vampire Savior than the Hylden Savior? He has blue skin like they do, he has wings (albeit destroyed) - Kain has a greenish skin like the Hylden savior and no wings and wears red clothing like the Hylden savior seems to be wearing. I also remember a line in SR2 where Raziel notes that the Vampire figures have cloven hands and feet like he has.

- OK, so the Elder God wanted Kain dead and wanted Raziel to avoid his destiny so that Raz could keep feeding him souls, right? Why did he need Kain to die? What would happen (as far as the EG is concerned) if Kain didn't die? I'm thinking this has something to do with what the EG explained in SR1, that the vampires don't actually kill their victims so the EG gets no souls. Right? My brain hurts every time I try to figure this out, so it would be great if you could explicitly spell out the EG's true intentions or if there's a good thread to read up. I've played all the games but am somewhat lost.

Thanks

[fneh]

Originally posted by spatrizi
Thanks DogFight, though I'm still wondering:

- Doesn't Raziel look more like the Vampire Savior than the Hylden Savior? He has blue skin like they do, he has wings (albeit destroyed) - Kain has a greenish skin like the Hylden savior and no wings and wears red clothing like the Hylden savior seems to be wearing. I also remember a line in SR2 where Raziel notes that the Vampire figures have cloven hands and feet like he has.

- OK, so the Elder God wanted Kain dead and wanted Raziel to avoid his destiny so that Raz could keep feeding him souls, right? Why did he need Kain to die? What would happen (as far as the EG is concerned) if Kain didn't die? I'm thinking this has something to do with what the EG explained in SR1, that the vampires don't actually kill their victims so the EG gets no souls. Right? My brain hurts every time I try to figure this out, so it would be great if you could explicitly spell out the EG's true intentions or if there's a good thread to read up. I've played all the games but am somewhat lost.

Thanks

Raziel is both. Look at bens site (thelostworlds.net) for a Q&A with amy henning. It'll answer your questions better then anyone else could.

[Dogfight]

Here are the replies to your questions:

Defiance has to do with the prophecies of the Ancients. You need to look at Raziel's appearance before he was thrown into the Abyss. The Ancients prophesied the coming of two Vampire Messiahs and their two enemies that were Hylden. The Ancients believed that their champions would look like themselves like you stated, the Hylden believed that they had only one hero that would look like them. The problem with prophecies is that they are often more symbolic than fact. Raziel and Kain were both the Vampire Messiahs and their two enemy Hylden. Janos didn't figure this out until the end of Defiance, when he sees Raziel wielding the Soul Reaver, and he says the line: "Reedemer and Destroyer..." The appearances of Raziel and Kain in the series reflects a hybrid destiny, not one or the other.

Read up on an old thread of mine, were I lay down facts and explain it all in better detail.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...threadid=30451

The Elder God wanted Raziel to become the Soul Reaver before finding the Spirit Forge and forging the Spirit Reaver. The Elder God twisted the truth when he told Raziel about the Vampires, the real reason he wants them dead is because as long as they are immortal he has to wait for a long time to feed on their souls, and he doesn't like waiting for his meal. The Elder is the ultimate parasite, he feeds on souls, then he puts them in his Wheel of Fate, creates a false destiny to control them, shackling them to Fate, and then he makes their destinies happen. He is the source of war and conflict throughout the ages, making an endless cycle of life, death and rebirth, all a prelude to his meal. In Defiance Raziel was the only with free will and the Elder God didn't want him to achieve his true destiny because that would mean the healing of the only one that can destroy him: "Kain". This is one of the reasons the Elder initiated the war between the Ancients and the Hylden so long ago for fear of Kain's coming. When Raziel talks to Kain at the end and tells him: "Now you will see the true enemy." Raziel is mending the broken rift between the two races and getting Kain ready to destroy the true enemy of both races. This is Kain true destiny, to kill the Elder God and then give back everyone's lost free will.

[aznxdarkxromeo]

what would happen if Kain never threw Raziel into the abyss???
won't that be the best way out?
Raziel will never be sucked in
Janos would stay dead

[Dogfight]

No, because then neither Raziel nor Kain could fulfill their true destinies. Everybody in the LOK series is shackled to the Wheel of Fate, just about everything before Soul Reaver 2 was supposed to happen, the only way time could be changed was when two versions of the Soul Reaver met, creating a time distortion, a paradox powerful enough to derrail history and rewritte it. Soul Reaver 2 was all about getting back Kain and Raziel's true destinies through changing history. The problem is once this happened a fatal paradox was introduced, everything is a trade off, Kain and Raziel got a chance back to assume their true destinies but at a heavy cost, this being the introduction of everything that happens in Blood Omen 2 which never happened before the time change. Defiance is Raziel's story now back with his free will that was previously lost, with the ability now to make history instead of changing it.

The best thing you can do to understand Defiance is to play the other games. Reading the dialogue online of the other games will help you to better understand the story, but you will not get the same impact as would relating to the characters by playing the games. Just think about what would be better, hearing stories about someone you care about, or being a part of those events yourself.