Thief 4 and Steam

[Bidoc]

PLEASE! please please please, Give us a full game release on dvd. Please don't make the game only available thru Steam or some such, so called, online service.

I realize many people like Steam. I, for one, do not. I don't want their client on my machine. I don't want to connect to the internet just to play a single player game. I, most likely, will not buy the game if I am required to install some stupid and useless online client.

So please, if you must use something like Steam, give us an alternative as well.

I'm a big fan of the Thief games. I have every one of them, legally purchased. Please, don't make me forego the pleasure of playing another release.

[george12123]

The most likely situation is that it would be released on disk and steam.
Also

I, most likely, will not buy the game if I am required to install some stupid and useless online client.

Steam is not useless and stupid, steam is actually very usefull and I would recomend it to everyone who games on the PC/Mac/Linux(coming soon) and PS3 as steam is on that too.

[Kodaemon]

If ThiFOURf ever got released, there would surely be a boxed version. That would use Steam.

But that's purely hypothetical, since the game will never be released.

[contrarian]

BIDOC, the vast majority of Thieffers out there feel exactly the same as you do. Include me in that group...I despise STEAM and will circumvent it using any and all means at my disposal.

This forum, however, is not a great place to be anti-STEAM as I have discovered. There are lots of squeeky wheels here. In other words, the squeeky wheels are in the teeny tiny minority and really make themselves heard.

STEAM is nothing more than a way for the developers to control their product, monitor its use, monitor the user's habist, sell their usage habits to advertisers, and make even more money.

It's no coincidence that the player MUST have an always-on internet connection to play these types of games. Can you say "Tracking Cookies"? Even when you're not playing STEAM games, your internet browsing habits are tracked, stored, and sold off to advertisers. Boooooooooo.

[DJ Riff]

Originally Posted by contrarian

STEAM is nothing more than a way for the developers to control their product, monitor its use, monitor the user's habist, sell their usage habits to advertisers, and make even more money.

There's no need for Steam to do it. You can install the game from a DVD then face the requirement of a permanent internet connection. Or the game may not force that on you, just collect the data and send it silently when it's available. On the contrary, a lot of games bought off Steam don't require an internet connection and can be started when the client is in offline mode. BTW, Thief games can be run directly from steamapps folder without having Steam client even started. So it's really up to publisher itself how to treat their customers, Steam just adds convenience to both of ways.

[Tryst]

When a friend installed Steam to play a game, it kept crashing. It was a single player game that required you to be online all the time so the Steam client had to be running.

When he complained to Steam about the crashes, they said it was the game, the game company said it was Steam. This went back and forth like a tennis match for a very long time until finally, someone admitted to having a cracked version without Steam and it ran perfectly.

Just like our friends at M$, Steam is becoming too big and won't admit their mistakes, preferring to pass the blame onto third party apps rather than spend time and money investigating the bugs in their own client. It's bad enough that many games come out with so many bugs without being forced to use a buggy external client to run it or even just to register it.

In short, Thief 4 + Steam = NO SALE for me.

[pedrovay2003]

Originally Posted by DJ Riff

:BTW, Thief games can be run directly from steamapps folder without having Steam client even started. So it's really up to publisher itself how to treat their customers, Steam just adds convenience to both of ways.

See, THIS is what ALL Steam games need to do. I'm perfectly fine with Steam if I don't have to ask permission to play what I paid for. And no, Steam registration is NOT a one-time thing.

[DJ Riff]

Originally Posted by pedrovay2003

See, THIS is what ALL Steam games need to do. I'm perfectly fine with Steam if I don't have to ask permission to play what I paid for. And no, Steam registration is NOT a one-time thing.

Again, it's not a problem of Steam itself. It's up to publisher to decide if their game requires an online connection, if it requires starting Steam client first, if it needs an online check for binary/resource files, to what extent it is mod-friendly, etc. The game bought off Steam can be as non-invasive as GOG release, as we see the Thief games are. And, of course, it's up to publisher to decide in the first place if the box version of the game requires Steam registration and if it's just a registration or you'll have to download the whole game from Steam servers even if you have the disc.

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by contrarian

It's no coincidence that the player MUST have an always-on internet connection to play these types of games. Can you say "Tracking Cookies"? Even when you're not playing STEAM games, your internet browsing habits are tracked, stored, and sold off to advertisers. Boooooooooo.

This is nonsense. Run Steam in "offline mode" and you don't need to be connected to the Internet. Steam does not employ an "always-on internet connection" (as attempted disastrously by Ubisoft).

I love Steam, I think it is a valuable tool and resource. Sure, it's effectively DRM, but it adds so much more. It gives you access to a proper community, automatically adds updates and patches, and is so simple and easy to use compared to other clients such as Games For Windows Live.

Considering Deus Ex Human Revolution required registration on Steam, I am 100% positive Thief 4 will too. And that - in my mind - is nothing but a good thing.

[T4ff4r]

I tolerate Steam becuase I have a dedicated gaming machine that I use for nothing else, so their snooping isn't getting them much in my case. If Thief 4 is released via/involving Steam (and it probably will be, face it), I will still buy it...grudgingly.

Assuming it's anything but the garbage that Deadly Shadows was, that is.

Assuming assuming it's ever released at all.

[Morgan Wight]

Originally Posted by Blue Sky

I love Steam, I think it is a valuable tool and resource. Sure, it's effectively DRM, but it adds so much more. It gives you access to a proper community, automatically adds updates and patches, and is so simple and easy to use compared to other clients such as Games For Windows Live.

Considering Deus Ex Human Revolution required registration on Steam, I am 100% positive Thief 4 will too. And that - in my mind - is nothing but a good thing.

Don't you think this is overselling it a bit?

I can't really comment on the advantages of steam communities (since I will generally will go to dedicated fansites for that), but automatic patches are a very questionable benefit indeed, and just about anything is going to compare favorably with GFWL! I'm not saying steam is straight up terrible, but it definitely has a history of complicating mod installations, making it really difficult to create separate desktop shortcuts for different direct x modes, benchmarks, etc. Conversely, providing a distribution service for smaller developers certainly is a very good thing, but I'd still prefer they didn't bring steam on board for Thief 4. I just don't see it providing any real benefits to the user when it comes to big-budget titles.

[Tryst]

Originally Posted by Blue Sky

Considering Deus Ex Human Revolution required registration on Steam, I am 100% positive Thief 4 will too. And that - in my mind - is nothing but a good thing.

Your personal view.

My personal view is that Steam will never be installed on my PC. Therefore, is a game requires it to activate or run, I don't buy the game. Simple as that. I took one look at Deus Ex in the shop, saw that it required Steam and put it back on the shelf. If it comes out on the budget label without Steam, I will buy it later. if it still requires Steam, then I'm sure I can survive without playing it.

[Bidoc]

Originally Posted by Tryst

Your personal view.
I took one look at Deus Ex in the shop, saw that it required Steam and put it back on the shelf.

I did the same thing with a legitimate copy of Diablo III. A freind had a copy he bought, said his machine wouldn't run it and offered it to me. I took a look and saw I needed a Steam account, so I handed it right back to him.

[Viktoria]

What a shame you guys missed out... Diablo III is said to be a very good game; and I found DX:HR very enjoyable to play.

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by Tryst

Your personal view.

Well, obviously. I try to avoid spouting other people's views; I find them distinctly less personal than my own.

My personal view is that Steam will never be installed on my PC. Therefore, is a game requires it to activate or run, I don't buy the game.

Seeing as Human Revolution required Steam, I think it's guaranteed that Thief 4 will require it too, coming from the same studio and publisher.

The console versions will be Steam free, of course. But really Steam is not any kind of problem, hindrance, or inconvenience; quite the reverse, considering it updates the game automatically. Plus you don't even have to use it; once the game is installed you needn't even load it to play. Just create a shortcut to the game on your desktop or whatever.

[swordbreaker]

he says please. So EM will understand his emotionality and give a special dvd box just for him .







Nope, wake up buddy. EM abandoned here long time ago......

[contrarian]

I'd say the chances are pretty darn good that STEAM will be used at some point. It's just another revenue stream for SE.....can't blame 'em for that.

See, what Valve wanted to do when it created STEAM was 2-fold. 1) Impose restrictions upon their product once it was sold. 2) Cut the cost of distributing their product, thereby increasing their bottom line.

Most of us logicians have no problem with #2. That's business as usual. The more money I can make from a sale, the happier I become. I like to be happy.

It's #1 we have a problem with. See, in the real world, when I sell you something, it becomes yours. You give me 9 dollars and I sell you a frisbee. You can lend your frisbee to your friends for the week, you can sell your frisbee to the guy down the street, or you can even let dozens of people play with it.

Don't get me started on the illegality of portions of the License Agreement, it's the only thing that makes me more furious than "Ghosters". And I need to watch my blood pressure

[negative_len]

I just want to say one thing in defense of Steam. It may be tedious bloatware, but it does serve one valuable purpose: It's a distribution tool that allows many games made by small developers to receive a much wider audience than they otherwise would, considering the cost of advertising (although of course it slashes the games' prices to whatever it likes and keeps part of the profits).

That doesn't apply to Thi4f, of course.

[AlexOfSpades]

Hey look, more Steam haters without arguments to back their claims!

Here, grab your pitchforks:

----E
----E
----E

Some torches here too: iii

Let the hate games begin!

[Sephiroth]

I use steam and I have to use it in oder to play the first two thief games because my computer's operating system isnt old enough to install and play them because its a windows 7. There isnt a difference in game play or the missions of the games. I would buy it on steam and/or the disk version. I play a lot of fun games on steam that are free or that I paid for. Once you pay for the game, the only way you will have to re-buy the game is if you have to create a new account on steam. Its not like you can lose the disk and have to end up buying a new one. I use emulators to play console games on my pc and i use an xbox controller to play them. Steam isnt as bad as you think. Its probably you just dont want the bugs that actually hardly come up for me. Ive never once had a problem with steam.

[IMG][/IMG]

[mvs]

steam offers me actually nothing that i really want or need. of upcoming games there are only two that i am interested in. one is a german point and click adventure, and what the other one is is hopefully obvious.

i do neither want or need an online community to enjoy thief, i am perfectly capable of downloading a patch if there ever is a need for one myself and i do not play that much that i could not keep track of patches for the games i play.

i however see no value in buying a boxed game that i can only play if i create an account at a service that i will never use. i understand i am a minority. but i am still a customer willing to pay. i would like to give eidos money. i hope i get something for it.

[contrarian]

MVS, please be aware that you are in the vast majority, not the minority. I'd say at least 75% gamers dislike steam.

We understand Steam was created solely as Digital Restriction Management and to increase the publisher's bottom line. We, the majority, simply want to buy a game (whether it be on a disk or download), play it when we want, not have to jump through hoops to play it by creating accounts and being forced to have an always-on internet service, and being subject to tracking software installed on our computer to monitor our every move.

[Coyotegrey]

Originally Posted by contrarian

MVS, please be aware that you are in the vast majority, not the minority. I'd say at least 75% gamers dislike steam.

We understand Steam was created solely as Digital Restriction Management and to increase the publisher's bottom line. We, the majority, simply want to buy a game (whether it be on a disk or download), play it when we want, not have to jump through hoops to play it by creating accounts and being forced to have an always-on internet service, and being subject to tracking software installed on our computer to monitor our every move.

I read that as if it were a segment on the Colbert Report.

Originally Posted by Bidoc

I did the same thing with a legitimate copy of Diablo III. A freind had a copy he bought, said his machine wouldn't run it and offered it to me. I took a look and saw I needed a Steam account, so I handed it right back to him.

You need a Steam account for Diablo 3?

[Viktoria]

Originally Posted by Coyotegrey

You need a Steam account for Diablo 3?

Good call.
Afaik, Blizzard games don't use Steam because they have their own online shop at Battle.net.

[Davehall380]

I have only really used Steam to play Football Manager on the train back home each day and it can be very frustrating (bit of an understatement) to have to find an internet connection to play a game that has a disc sitting in the drive.

That said, I can see 'streaming through a browser' game play becoming more prevelant with the introduction of services like on-live and gaikai - with the exception of users that have access to reasonable gaming PC, we might need to get used to the idea of having a connection to play games. At least the introduction of 4G should make this easier to digest :-(