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Thief Enemy Hit Point, Immunity and Weakness List

(Originally created by Munin the Raven - Thanks Munin!)


This list is long overdue, but I'm sure that newer Thief fans will find it paricularly useful, and those fans who are more experienced may still learn a few new tricks. This is a very thorough explanation of the damage system used in Thief TDP/Gold and Thief II and a nearly complete list of the hitpoints and special vunerabilities/immunities of each enemy. I've compiled this list mostly by playing many hours of Thief and by double-checking it using DromEd to scan
through the object heirarchy.


Dealing Damage

This is a listing of each weapon available to Garrett except throwable junk and a few other unique items. The term "SB" (for "stealth bonus") means that the when the weapon is used on an unaware foe, the damage dealt is multiplied by five. "NSB" means that the weapon does not get this bonus. Note that locational based damage is not a factor in Thief except when it comes to explosions, which is explained briefly below; it doesn't matter where one hits an enemy unless one is using an explosive weapon.


The sword
deals different amounts of damage depending on the attack. A slash deals 2 points, a hard slash deals 4 points,
and an overhead swing deals 6 points. Constantine's Sword is identical except that it does not make Garrett more visible when drawn. SB


The blackjack
deals a single point of damage with each strike. If an enemy is unaware, they will also be knocked out. Exceptions to this knockout rule are noted in the sections below. NSB


Broadheads
deal a random amount of damage, in Thief TDP/Gold anywhere from 1 to 6 points and in Thief II 1 to 4 points . In Thief TDP/Gold, a broadhead launched from a fully pulled bow generally deals 3-4 points of damage, although it can deal as little as 1 and as much as 6. If the bow is not fully pulled back, the arrow will typically deal 1 or 2 points of damage. In Thief II, a broadhead from a fully pulled bow deals 3 or 4 points of damage, and one from a shorter pull deals 1 or 2 points. SB


Water arrows and holy water arrows don't normally deal damage to targets, and in cases when they do they deal a single point of damage, which isn't relevant to vulnerable foes anyway. SB


Fire arrows
can deal a wide range of damage. Like other explosive weapons in Thief, they produce an explosion with a radial effect; the closer to the explosion something is, the more damage it will take. A fire arrow that hits an enemy directly (rather than hitting something next to
it) can deal anywhere from 7-17 damage, depending on where it hits and also on a random factor. This is because when the explosion goes off right in the middle of a foe, they absorb more of the blast than when it hits elsewhere. A hit to the head deals 7-9 damage, a hit to the upper chest or knees deals 10 or 11, a hit to the mid-torso deals 11-14, and a direct hit to the naval area of
any humanoid enemy (such as the exposed spine of a zombie) deals 12-17 damage, which is enough to kill many enemies with a single hit. Enemies caught in the blast radius of a fire arrow without being hit directly take 4-5 points of damage. NSB


Moss arrows
don't deal damage to anything and can't be used to dispose of any known enemy.


Gas arrows
only deal damage to a few types of creatures. The large cloud of knockout gas they produce will knockout almost any human enemy, and many inhuman ones as well; the exceptions are noted below. I'm not sure about the damage or stealth bonus with this one, but as with water arrows it's irrelevant.


Rope/vine arrows
do not deal damage in Thief TDP/Gold, but in Thief II they deal damage just like normal broadheads. SB


Noisemaker arrows
don't deal damage to anything and can't be used to permanently dispose of any known enemy.


Flashbombs blind most foes without dealing damage. However, those foes that do take damage from bright light take 10 damage if they're very close to the center of the detonation and smaller amounts if they're farther away, to a point where they can still be blinded but not take damage. Flash mines blind foes equally well, except that if an enemy runs directly over one the mine will go off too late and the flash will occur behind them, not blinding them. NSB


Mines
deal damage using the same principle as fire arrows. If a patrolling enemy walks over an active mine, they tend to take 16-19 points
of damage. If something runs directly over a mine, the explosion takes place when they're directly above it, and they suffer 22 or 23 points of damage. An enemy that runs through the edge of a mine's detonation range or is near the edge of a mine's blast radius when it goes off take much less damage, usually around 7 points. NSB


Frogbeasts
are more lethal in Thief II, and deal roughly ten points of damage when they go off right next to or under an enemy. If they detonate farther away from a target, that target takes less damage. There's no stealth bonus that I'm aware of, and since enemies hear the froggies coming it wouldn't matter if there was.




Thief TDP/Gold Enemy
Hitpoint and Special Strengths and Weaknesses List


In this section, the first number is the number of hitpoints the AI has, and the second is the amount of damage an AI must take in order to flee (run for help). The flee function is set manually by the designers, so some AI of the same type retreat after taking different amounts of damage, and note that they usually won't flee if other AI are also fighting you. Some AI are not programmed to flee, and some I've never checked for this feature. Any special immunities or vulnerabilities of an AI are noted below the hitpoint list.


Fighting Humans

Sword/Bow Bafford Guard: 10; 5 or 7 to flee

Bafford Front Gate Guard: 25; does not flee

Bafford Sergeant: 20; does not flee

Hammerite Guard: 20; 17 to flee

Hammerite Priest: 20; 17 to flee

Ramirez Sword Guard: 16; 11 to flee

Ramirez Bow Guard: 20; 15 to flee

Ramirez Sergeant: 20 (to my knowledge not used in the game, but in hierarchy and many FMs)

Sword/Bow Assasin: 28; 20 to flee

Sword\Bow Thief: 16; 11 to flee

Constantine Guard: 12; 10 to flee

Mage: 16; 12 to flee

Mage Sword Guard: 16; 12 to flee

Mage Bow Guard: 15; 10 to flee

Opera Sword Guard: 16; 11 to flee

Opera Bow Guard; 15; 10 to flee


Innoncent Humans
(always flee when programmed properly)

M/F Servant: 7

Hammerite Novice: 5

M/F Unarmed Thief: 7

M/F Actor: 7

M/F Noble: 9

Merchant: 5

Raul: 9


Undead
(never flee)

Zombie: 12

Haunt: 15

Apparition: 32

Fire Shadow: 25


Inhuman Creatures

Little Brown Spider: 1 (a.k.a. "Sewer Spider")

Big Green Spider: 10; 8 to flee (a.ka. "Huge Spider")

Burrick: 20; 14 to flee

Crayman: 20; 14 to flee

Fire Elemental: 10; never flees


Bugbeasts

Apebeast: 10; 6 to flee

Bugbeast: 28; 19 to flee

Frogbeast: 1

Red Spider: 16; 12 to flee (a.k.a. "Spiderbeast")

Craybeast: 28; does not flee


Special Strengths and Weaknesses


Fire mages
are immune to fire, including fire arrows, mines, lava, hot-plates, and flames.


Air mages
are immune to knockout-gas.


Water Mages
drown like other humans, strangely enough.


Innoncents
can always be knocked out no matter how alert they are.


All Undead
are immune to gas, cannot be knocked out with the blackjack, and all broadhead attacks against them are reduced to one point of damage per arrow. They can be damaged with flashbombs.


Zombies, Haunts and Apparitions
can be disposed of with holy water arrows: two, three, and six respectively. Damage dealt this way does not register in the mission end stats.


Fire Shadows
can be disposed of with three of any type of water arrow, and take one damage from each hit.


Zombies
take damage from conventional weapons, but they only fall to the ground when “killed” and regenerate. If they’ve taken flash, fire, or holy damage, then they only regenerate the remaining hitpoints (if they take nine damage from a fire arrow they’ll only require three damage to knock back down again).


Zombies
also act strange when taking flash damage. If they take more than lethal damage from two flashbombs, they fall to the ground and go dormant. An extra flashbomb exposure in this state blows them up, dealing 12 or 13 damage. This means that a healthy and active zombie takes three flashbombs total to destroy. Wounding a zombie with a fire or holy source and them exposing it to a flash blows it up, and vice versa.


A Zombie
in a dormant state on the ground takes a single fire arrow or holy-water arrow to destroy. If it hasn’t taken any fire, holy, or flash damage, it will take two flashbombs to destroy; if already damaged it takes just one.


Big Green Spiders
cannot be knocked out with the blackjack.


Craymen
cannot drown. I assume craybeasts can’t, either.


Fire Elementals
cannot be harmed by fire, which actually heals them. They also can't be blinded with flashbombs or knocked out in any way. They take damage from knockout gas and burrick gas, and a single water arrow takes them out instantly unless it's a very bad shot, in which case it almost kills them.


Frogbeasts
take -4.00 damage from "bash" sources, meaning that the blackjack doesn't deal damage to them. However, they can still be knocked out with it.


General Rule:
the more magical and supernatural enemies are usually immune to their own attacks. Bugbeasts are immune to bugshots and bug clouds, water mages are immune to ice crystal attacks, etc.





Thief II Enemy Hitpoint
and Special Strengths and Weaknesses List


The same rules apply to this section as to the one above. Most of the human guards in Thief II are identical in hitpoints to a Bafford Guard, and many other enemies that carried over from the previous game have the same number of hitpoints.


Humans

Innocent: 7; always flees

Sword/bow Guard: 10; 7 to flee

Hammerite: 15; 13 to flee

Pirate: 28; 19 to flee

Helmeted Guard: 10; 7 to flee

Sergeant: 20; 17 to flee

Lt. Mosley: 20; 17 to flee

Cavador: 15; always flee

Mechanist Mace/crossbow Guard: 15; 13 to flee

Mechanist Priest/Priestess: 15; 13 to flee

Gervasius Guard: 18; 12 to flee


Machines

Camera: 1; stationary

Turret: 20? (It’s not listed in the hierarchy, but this number seems like a reasonable guess); stationary

Worker Bot: 9; always flees

Combat Bot: 18; 17 to flee

Spider Bot: 20; 15 to flee

Mechanist Cherub: invincible; always flees (more commonly known as the dreaded “Golden Boy”)


Undead
(never flee)

Haunt: 15

Zombie: 12

Apparition: 32


Inhuman Creatures

Little Spider: 1

Big Spider: 10; 7 to flee

Rat: 3

Eyeball Plant: 12; stationary

Apebeast: 10; 6 to flee

Treebeast: 15; 10 to flee (more commonly known as an “Ent”)

Frogbeast: 1


Special Strengths and Weaknesses


Helmeted Guards
cannot be knocked out with the blackjack, but they can still be damaged with it and knocked out with gas. The fully suited Mechanist crossbow guard cannot be knocked out with gas, either (I assume he also can’t drown, but haven’t checked).


Cavador can’t be knocked out with gas, but he can still be knocked out with the blackjack.


Cameras and Turrets
can only be destroyed with explosives, such as fire arrows, mines, frogs, sunburst devices, and cannonballs. Turrets generally take two well-placed frogs, two fire arrows, or a single mine to destroy.


Bots
can be destroyed by any means except conventional arrow weapons (broadheads, rope/vine arrows, bolts, sawblades, etc.) and the sword. They can also be destroyed by shooting water or gas arrows into their boilers; worker bots take one of either and combat bots and spider bots take two water arrows or one gas arrow.


The "Mechanist Cherub",
or golden boy, is completely invincible. I checked out his stats with DromEd, and the designers made him immune to every type of stimulus in the game, including those used by earth arrows, burricks, and the magic missiles in Thief TDP/Gold.


The Undead
are configured the same way in Thief II as they are in Thief TDP/Gold, except for the lack of holy water as a weapon against them. For some reason, the apparition in Casing/Masks is configured to be immune to weapons, but I’ve found that frogs still work against it.


Large Green Spiders
cannot be knocked out with the blackjack.


Eyeball Plants
are immune to fire and gas, not that this is really important.


Treebeasts
are immune to broadheads and gas. They can only be knocked out while in their dormant state, though they can be backstabbed when dormant or awake, provided they’re unaware. They can be blinded with flashbombs, although this doesn’t allow them to be knocked out. Fire is the weapon of choice against them, as they take 2.5 times as much damage from it. The sword and blackjack can also kill them.


Frogbeasts
are configured to be immune to blackjack damage as they are in Thief TDP/Gold.


Frogbeasts
don't drown.



If I've missed anything, feel free to make your own contributions to the list.


[This message has been edited by Munin the Raven (edited 08-05-2001).]



- Old Eidos BBS reply from Grey Mouser

Munin, I finally took the time to re-make this topic based on your original. If it meets with your approval it can be added to or modified, then Arhcived so we don't "lose" it.

Thanks again for a great topic!

Other taffers - feel free to comment.

GM


- Old Eidos BBS reply from howie

Never seen this list before! It's a good topic, the only other thing I can think of would be short-cut keys ! I'm always finding new ones, the 'F' keys for example, F6 & F7 for lock picks, the zoom eye '[' ']' keys for Garretts eye, and wheel mouse for scrolling through the inventory. A few people get lost in the manuals when they first start playing_and then_don't think about some ease of short-cut keys.


- Old Eidos BBS reply from belboz

I should point out that all these settings, and what a weapon will and will not do, can be fully changed in a fan mission.


- Old Eidos BBS reply from NYYForever

Thanks for this I asked a question about it awhile back!
Oh well, back to "The Art of Thievery"...


- Old Eidos BBs reply from Munin the Raven

Thanks GM. It looks even better than before I have to make a few changes to some of the numbers and such, but it should be ready to archive soon.

Belboz, I should probably note in the topic that these rules only apply to the original games. Thanks.


- Old Eidos BBS reply from MsLedd


/me pokes her head in to add:

• Tree Beasts can be killed with mines. (only takes one if positioned properly)

• Froggies are great for clearing out spider-infested areas.

• The Builder's Children (a.k.a. "Bots") can be destroyed with the blackjack.

Repeated, savage blows to the back of the head (boiler) with the trusty old blackjack (the sword has no effect) will reward you with a pile of bot-parts. Naturally, this is more easily done with the little gold WorkerBots than the big blue CombatBots or the nasty SpiderBots. As you might expect, taking out a sawblade-spitting Spider or a cannon-toting CombatBot involves long periods of hiding and running away, intermixed with short periods of thwacking. The WorkerBots are blind and have no weapon, therefore they present no threat themselves. They do however run off and "tell", reporting to those that *do* present a threat, and I must say that there's something about chasing down those defenseless metal midgets and reducing them to rubble that can be extremely satisfying at times, takes the edge off a bit when the game gets stressful.


"Karras hath for..." *THUNK* "I Have hea..." *THUNK* "Dangerous cond..." *THUNK*

Or maybe it's just me...?


- Old Eidos BBS reply from Munin the Raven

That bots can be killed with the blackjack is assumed: "...any conventional means except conventional arrow weapons and the sword..." I should probably make it more clear though, thanks for the heads-up.

Acutally, if one attacks an unaware bot from behind and gives them a rapid series of blackjack blows, the bot never has a chance to turn around. This applies to both the spider bots and the combat bots.


- Old Eidos BBS reply from Zaccheus

About black-jacking / alertness

This has happened a few times to me:

I am standing behind a wall with the blackjack raised, and a guard approaches. Just as he sees me I release the blackjack, he shouts "He have an intruder", the blackjack hits him and he gets knocked out.

Similar things have happend with sleeping AIs who wake up just as I am about to hit them - they shout something and then get knocked out.

Can you please clarify why they get knocked out when they are clearly at highest alertness. Is it because they were un-alerted when I released the blow.

On a similar note:

If I release an arrow on an unsuspecting guard and while the arrow is in the air he get alerted, would the arrow still take him out as if he had not been alert?


------------------

Remember to be cautious at all times, mind whom you trust and what you receive from those you encounter. Always be on your guard.

The Honest Thief


- Old Eidos BBS reply from Munin the Raven

I've always refered to the dash and face-bop technique as the "blitz," but it has other common names.

The reason behind it is that there seems to be a slight delay between when a guard notices Garrett and he loses his unaware attributes (including the KO metaproperty). I've noticed that it's more common with the "slower" guards, and a little experimenting with DromEd seems to have some affect on this atribute of a guard.

The real confusion as to whether or not a guard is alert is that the "coming alert" sound(s) doesn't always exactly match the timing of them coming alert. For instance, when you run around a corner head-on into a guard, he goes through a series of changes to reach an alerted state, but as soon as this series starts he says something to indicate he's startled (or does a short scripted series of movements), and the player may receive these audio/video indications before the enemey itself has been told to be startled and lose it's blackjack receptron, among other things.

This is why the blackjack can knock them out after they "appear" to be in an alert state. As I posted above, this delay seems to be controllable through the AI Attributes accessable through DromEd (it might be the sloth attribute, but I don't remember).
Technically, the AI was in the process of becoming alert when it was knocked out. Since I started playing Thief over two and half years ago, the I've found that the transition between the normal watch mode and alert mode of the AI in the series is a lot less cut and dry than it originally seemed.

As for arrows, the same delay may apply but I haven't done much experimentation.

[This message has been edited by Munin the Raven (edited 12-12-2001).]


- Old Eidos BBS reply from Mr. Perfect

Nice thread. I've learned a lot of usefull stuff about the bots in here.

Don't forget that the battle bots can be tricked into killing themselves. You just have to get them up against a wall or door that blocks their cannon. When they fire it bouces back and damages them.

------------------

Mr. Perfect a name fraught with peril.

------------------

Descent, because gravity is highly over-rated.

Don't taff with me, I'm running out of places to hide the bodies.