Thief Enemy Hit Point, Immunity and Weakness List
(Originally created by Munin the Raven - Thanks Munin!)
This list is long overdue, but I'm sure that newer Thief fans
will find it paricularly useful, and those fans who are more experienced
may still learn a few new tricks. This is a very thorough
explanation of the damage system used in Thief TDP/Gold and Thief II
and a nearly complete list of the hitpoints and special
vunerabilities/immunities of each enemy. I've compiled this list mostly
by playing many hours of Thief and by double-checking it using DromEd
to scan
through the object heirarchy.
Dealing Damage
This is a listing of each weapon available to Garrett except
throwable junk and a few other unique items. The term "SB" (for "stealth
bonus") means that the when the weapon is used on an unaware foe, the
damage dealt is multiplied by five. "NSB" means that the weapon does
not get this bonus. Note that locational based damage is not a factor
in Thief except when it comes to explosions, which is explained
briefly below; it doesn't matter where one hits an enemy unless one
is using an explosive weapon.
The sword
deals different amounts of damage depending on the attack.
A slash deals 2 points, a hard slash deals 4 points,
and an overhead swing deals 6 points. Constantine's Sword is
identical except that it does not make Garrett more
visible when drawn. SB
The blackjack
deals a single point of damage with each strike. If an enemy
is unaware, they will also be knocked out. Exceptions to this knockout
rule are noted in the sections below. NSB
Broadheads
deal a random amount of damage, in Thief TDP/Gold anywhere
from 1 to 6 points and in Thief II 1 to 4 points . In Thief TDP/Gold,
a broadhead launched from a fully pulled bow generally deals 3-4 points
of damage, although it can deal as little as 1 and as much as 6. If the
bow is not fully pulled back, the arrow will typically deal 1 or 2 points
of damage. In Thief II, a broadhead from a fully pulled bow deals 3 or
4 points of damage, and one from a shorter pull deals 1 or 2 points.
SB
Water arrows and holy water arrows
don't normally deal damage to targets, and in cases when they
do they deal a single point of damage, which isn't relevant to vulnerable
foes anyway. SB
Fire arrows
can deal a wide range of damage. Like other explosive weapons
in Thief, they produce an explosion with a radial effect; the closer
to the explosion something is, the more damage it will take. A fire arrow
that hits an enemy directly (rather than hitting something next to
it) can deal anywhere from 7-17 damage, depending on where
it hits and also on a random factor. This is because when the explosion
goes off right in the middle of a foe, they absorb more
of the blast than when it hits elsewhere. A hit to the head deals 7-9
damage, a hit to the upper chest or knees deals 10 or 11, a hit to the
mid-torso deals 11-14, and a direct hit to the naval area of
any humanoid enemy (such as the exposed spine of a zombie)
deals 12-17 damage, which is enough to kill many
enemies with a single hit. Enemies caught in the blast radius of a fire
arrow without being hit directly take 4-5 points of damage. NSB
Moss arrows
don't deal damage to anything and can't be used to dispose
of any known enemy.
Gas arrows
only deal damage to a few types of creatures. The large cloud
of knockout gas they produce will knockout almost any human enemy, and
many inhuman ones as well; the exceptions are noted below. I'm not sure
about the damage or stealth bonus with this one, but as with water arrows
it's irrelevant.
Rope/vine arrows
do not deal damage in Thief TDP/Gold, but in Thief II they
deal damage just like normal broadheads. SB
Noisemaker arrows
don't deal damage to anything and can't be used to permanently
dispose of any known enemy.
Flashbombs blind
most foes without dealing damage. However, those foes that do take damage
from bright light take 10 damage if they're very close to the center
of the detonation and smaller amounts if they're farther away, to a point
where they can still be blinded but not take damage. Flash mines blind
foes equally well, except that if an enemy runs directly over one the
mine will go off too late and the flash will occur behind them, not blinding
them. NSB
Mines
deal damage using the same principle as fire arrows. If a patrolling
enemy walks over an active mine, they tend to take 16-19 points
of damage. If something runs directly over a mine, the explosion
takes place when they're directly above it, and
they suffer 22 or 23 points of damage. An enemy that runs through the
edge of a mine's detonation range or is near the edge of a mine's blast
radius when it goes off take much less damage, usually
around 7 points. NSB
Frogbeasts
are more lethal in Thief II, and deal roughly ten points of
damage when they go off right next to or under an enemy. If they detonate
farther away from a target, that target takes less damage. There's no
stealth bonus that I'm aware of, and since enemies hear the froggies coming
it wouldn't matter if there was.
Thief TDP/Gold Enemy
Hitpoint and Special Strengths and Weaknesses List
In this section, the first number is the number of hitpoints the AI
has, and the second is the amount of damage an AI must take in order
to flee (run for help). The flee function is set manually by the designers,
so some AI of the same type retreat after taking different amounts of
damage, and note that they usually won't flee if other
AI are also fighting you. Some AI are not programmed to flee, and some
I've never checked for this feature. Any special immunities or vulnerabilities
of an AI are noted below the hitpoint list.
Fighting Humans
Sword/Bow Bafford Guard: 10; 5 or 7 to flee
Bafford Front Gate Guard: 25; does not flee
Bafford Sergeant: 20; does not flee
Hammerite Guard: 20; 17 to flee
Hammerite Priest: 20; 17 to flee
Ramirez Sword Guard: 16; 11 to flee
Ramirez Bow Guard: 20; 15 to flee
Ramirez Sergeant: 20 (to my knowledge not used in the game,
but in hierarchy and many FMs)
Sword/Bow Assasin: 28; 20 to flee
Sword\Bow Thief: 16; 11 to flee
Constantine Guard: 12; 10 to flee
Mage: 16; 12 to flee
Mage Sword Guard: 16; 12 to flee
Mage Bow Guard: 15; 10 to flee
Opera Sword Guard: 16; 11 to flee
Opera Bow Guard; 15; 10 to flee
Innoncent Humans
(always flee when programmed properly)
M/F Servant: 7
Hammerite Novice: 5
M/F Unarmed Thief: 7
M/F Actor: 7
M/F Noble: 9
Merchant: 5
Raul: 9
Undead
(never flee)
Zombie: 12
Haunt: 15
Apparition: 32
Fire Shadow: 25
Inhuman Creatures
Little Brown Spider: 1 (a.k.a. "Sewer Spider")
Big Green Spider: 10; 8 to flee (a.ka. "Huge Spider")
Burrick: 20; 14 to flee
Crayman: 20; 14 to flee
Fire Elemental: 10; never flees
Bugbeasts
Apebeast: 10; 6 to flee
Bugbeast: 28; 19 to flee
Frogbeast: 1
Red Spider: 16; 12 to flee (a.k.a. "Spiderbeast")
Craybeast: 28; does not flee
Special Strengths
and Weaknesses
Fire mages
are immune to fire, including fire arrows, mines, lava, hot-plates,
and flames.
Air mages
are immune to knockout-gas.
Water Mages
drown like other humans, strangely enough.
Innoncents
can always be knocked out no matter how alert they are.
All Undead
are immune to gas, cannot be knocked out with the blackjack,
and all broadhead attacks against them are reduced to one point of
damage per arrow. They can be damaged with flashbombs.
Zombies, Haunts and Apparitions
can be disposed of with holy water arrows: two, three, and
six respectively. Damage dealt this way does not register in the mission
end stats.
Fire Shadows
can be disposed of with three of any type of water arrow, and
take one damage from each hit.
Zombies
take damage from conventional weapons, but they only fall to
the ground when “killed” and regenerate. If they’ve taken flash, fire,
or holy damage, then they only regenerate the remaining hitpoints (if
they take nine damage from a fire arrow they’ll only require three damage
to knock back down again).
Zombies
also act strange when taking flash damage. If they take more
than lethal damage from two flashbombs, they fall to the ground and
go dormant. An extra flashbomb exposure in this state blows them up,
dealing 12 or 13 damage. This means that a healthy and active zombie
takes three flashbombs total to destroy. Wounding a zombie with a fire
or holy source and them exposing it to a flash blows it up, and vice
versa.
A Zombie
in a dormant state on the ground takes a single fire arrow
or holy-water arrow to destroy. If it hasn’t taken any fire, holy,
or flash damage, it will take two flashbombs to destroy; if already damaged
it takes just one.
Big Green Spiders
cannot be knocked out with the blackjack.
Craymen
cannot drown. I assume craybeasts can’t, either.
Fire Elementals
cannot be harmed by fire, which actually heals them. They also
can't be blinded with flashbombs or knocked out in any way. They take
damage from knockout gas and burrick gas, and a single water arrow takes
them out instantly unless it's a very bad shot, in which case it almost
kills them.
Frogbeasts
take -4.00 damage from "bash" sources, meaning that the blackjack
doesn't deal damage to them. However, they can still be knocked out
with it.
General Rule:
the more magical and supernatural enemies are usually immune
to their own attacks. Bugbeasts are immune to bugshots
and bug clouds, water mages are immune to ice crystal attacks, etc.
Thief II Enemy Hitpoint
and Special Strengths and Weaknesses List
The same rules apply to this section as to the one above. Most of the
human guards in Thief II are identical in hitpoints
to a Bafford Guard, and many other enemies that carried
over from the previous game have the same number of hitpoints.
Humans
Innocent: 7; always flees
Sword/bow Guard: 10; 7 to flee
Hammerite: 15; 13 to flee
Pirate: 28; 19 to flee
Helmeted Guard: 10; 7 to flee
Sergeant: 20; 17 to flee
Lt. Mosley: 20; 17 to flee
Cavador: 15; always flee
Mechanist Mace/crossbow Guard: 15; 13 to flee
Mechanist Priest/Priestess: 15; 13 to flee
Gervasius Guard: 18; 12 to flee
Machines
Camera: 1; stationary
Turret: 20? (It’s not listed in the hierarchy, but this number
seems like a reasonable guess); stationary
Worker Bot: 9; always flees
Combat Bot: 18; 17 to flee
Spider Bot: 20; 15 to flee
Mechanist Cherub: invincible; always flees (more commonly known
as the dreaded “Golden Boy”)
Undead
(never flee)
Haunt: 15
Zombie: 12
Apparition: 32
Inhuman Creatures
Little Spider: 1
Big Spider: 10; 7 to flee
Rat: 3
Eyeball Plant: 12; stationary
Apebeast: 10; 6 to flee
Treebeast: 15; 10 to flee (more commonly known as an “Ent”)
Frogbeast: 1
Special Strengths
and Weaknesses
Helmeted Guards
cannot be knocked out with the blackjack, but they can still
be damaged with it and knocked out with gas. The fully suited Mechanist
crossbow guard cannot be knocked out with gas, either (I assume he
also can’t drown, but haven’t checked).
Cavador can’t be
knocked out with gas, but he can still be knocked out with the blackjack.
Cameras and Turrets
can only be destroyed with explosives, such as fire arrows,
mines, frogs, sunburst devices, and cannonballs. Turrets generally take
two well-placed frogs, two fire arrows, or a single mine to destroy.
Bots
can be destroyed by any means except conventional arrow weapons
(broadheads, rope/vine arrows, bolts, sawblades, etc.) and the sword.
They can also be destroyed by shooting water or gas arrows into their
boilers; worker bots take one of either and combat bots and spider
bots take two water arrows or one gas arrow.
The "Mechanist Cherub",
or golden boy, is completely invincible. I checked out his
stats with DromEd, and the designers made him immune to every
type of stimulus in the game, including those used by earth arrows,
burricks, and the magic missiles in Thief TDP/Gold.
The Undead
are configured the same way in Thief II as they are in Thief
TDP/Gold, except for the lack of holy water as a weapon against them.
For some reason, the apparition in Casing/Masks is configured to be
immune to weapons, but I’ve found that frogs still work against it.
Large Green Spiders
cannot be knocked out with the blackjack.
Eyeball Plants
are immune to fire and gas, not that this is really important.
Treebeasts
are immune to broadheads and gas. They can only be knocked
out while in their dormant state, though they can be backstabbed when
dormant or awake, provided they’re unaware. They can be blinded with
flashbombs, although this doesn’t allow them to be knocked out. Fire
is the weapon of choice against them, as they take 2.5 times as much
damage from it. The sword and blackjack can also kill them.
Frogbeasts
are configured to be immune to blackjack damage as they are
in Thief TDP/Gold.
Frogbeasts
don't drown.
If I've missed anything, feel free to make your own contributions
to the list.
[This message has been edited by Munin the Raven (edited 08-05-2001).]
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from Grey Mouser
Munin, I finally took the time to re-make this topic based
on your original. If it meets with your approval it can be added to
or modified, then Arhcived so we don't "lose" it.
Thanks again for a great topic!
Other taffers - feel free to comment.
GM
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from howie
Never seen this list before! It's a good topic, the only other
thing I can think of would be short-cut keys ! I'm always finding
new ones, the 'F' keys for example, F6 & F7 for lock picks, the zoom
eye '[' ']' keys for Garretts eye, and wheel mouse for scrolling through
the inventory. A few people get lost in the manuals when they first
start playing_and then_don't think about some ease of short-cut keys.
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from belboz
I should point out that all these settings, and what a weapon will
and will not do, can be fully changed in a fan mission.
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from NYYForever
Thanks for this I asked a question about it awhile back!
Oh well, back to "The Art of Thievery"...
- Old Eidos BBs reply
from Munin the Raven
Thanks GM. It looks even better than before 
I have to make a few changes to some of the numbers and such,
but it should be ready to archive soon.
Belboz, I should probably note in the topic that these rules
only apply to the original games. Thanks.
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from MsLedd
/me pokes her head in to add:
• Tree Beasts can be killed with mines. (only takes one if positioned
properly)
• Froggies are great for clearing out spider-infested areas.
• The Builder's Children (a.k.a. "Bots") can be destroyed with the
blackjack.
Repeated, savage blows to the back of the head (boiler) with the trusty
old blackjack (the sword has no effect) will reward you with a pile
of bot-parts. Naturally, this is more easily done with the little gold
WorkerBots than the big blue CombatBots or the nasty SpiderBots. As you
might expect, taking out a sawblade-spitting Spider or a cannon-toting
CombatBot involves long periods of hiding and running away, intermixed
with short periods of thwacking. The WorkerBots are blind and have no weapon,
therefore they present no threat themselves. They do however run off and
"tell", reporting to those that *do* present a threat, and I must say that
there's something about chasing down those defenseless metal midgets and
reducing them to rubble that can be extremely satisfying at times, takes
the edge off a bit when the game gets stressful.
"Karras hath for..." *THUNK* "I Have hea..." *THUNK* "Dangerous
cond..." *THUNK*
Or maybe it's just me...?
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from Munin the Raven
That bots can be killed with the blackjack is assumed: "...any conventional
means except conventional arrow weapons and the sword..." I should probably
make it more clear though, thanks for the heads-up.
Acutally, if one attacks an unaware bot from behind and gives
them a rapid series of blackjack blows, the bot never has a chance to
turn around. This applies to both the spider bots and the combat bots.
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from Zaccheus
About black-jacking / alertness
This has happened a few times to me:
I am standing behind a wall with the blackjack raised, and
a guard approaches. Just as he sees me I release the blackjack, he
shouts "He have an intruder", the blackjack hits him and he gets knocked
out.
Similar things have happend with sleeping AIs who wake up just
as I am about to hit them - they shout something and then get knocked
out.
Can you please clarify why they get knocked out when they are clearly
at highest alertness. Is it because they were un-alerted when I released
the blow.
On a similar note:
If I release an arrow on an unsuspecting guard and while the
arrow is in the air he get alerted, would the arrow still take him
out as if he had not been alert?
------------------
Remember to be cautious at all times, mind whom you trust and
what you receive from those you encounter. Always be on your guard.
The Honest
Thief
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from Munin the Raven
I've always refered to the dash and face-bop technique as the
"blitz," but it has other common names.
The reason behind it is that there seems to be a slight delay
between when a guard notices Garrett and he loses his unaware attributes
(including the KO metaproperty). I've noticed that it's more common
with the "slower" guards, and a little experimenting with DromEd seems
to have some affect on this atribute of a guard.
The real confusion as to whether or not a guard is alert is that the
"coming alert" sound(s) doesn't always exactly match the timing of them
coming alert. For instance, when you run around a corner head-on into
a guard, he goes through a series of changes to reach an alerted state, but
as soon as this series starts he says something to indicate he's startled
(or does a short scripted series of movements), and the player may receive
these audio/video indications before the enemey itself has been told to
be startled and lose it's blackjack receptron, among other things.
This is why the blackjack can knock them out after they "appear"
to be in an alert state. As I posted above, this delay seems to be controllable
through the AI Attributes accessable through DromEd (it might be the
sloth attribute, but I don't remember).
Technically, the AI was in the process of becoming alert when
it was knocked out. Since I started playing Thief over two and half years
ago, the I've found that the transition between the normal watch mode
and alert mode of the AI in the series is a lot less cut and dry than
it originally seemed.
As for arrows, the same delay may apply but I haven't done much experimentation.
[This message has been edited by Munin the Raven (edited 12-12-2001).]
- Old Eidos BBS reply
from Mr. Perfect
Nice thread. I've learned a lot of usefull stuff about the bots in here.
Don't forget that the battle bots can be tricked into killing
themselves. You just have to get them up against a wall or door that
blocks their cannon. When they fire it bouces back and damages them.
------------------
Mr. Perfect a name fraught with peril.
------------------
Descent, because gravity is highly over-rated.
Don't taff with me, I'm running out of places to hide the bodies.
Eidos Interactive Forums 
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