the city itslef?

[Secondary]

an interesting question just occurred to me, that is.

what exactly is the City and why does it need balancing so desperately?

the keepres were an order devoted to maintaining the balance of the City, heavily reliant on magic and their prophecies. but really, why? they obviously weren't doing iot out of any civic virtue, most of the keepers in the games seem detatched and unsympathetic towards the world (like Orland for instance).

and what exactly is the City (besides a city, i know that much:D). there are objects and even entire buildings within the City that have minds of their own (artifacts like the Eye, places like the Cradle). what exaclty is the City, why were the keepers so concerned about its preservation and what exactly did their prophecies point to (unless of course, they ended with the dark age)

i dont expect anyone to know these answers(unless any devs want to make a statement:wave:), but i would like to hear your thoughts and ideas.

[Pieter888]

The city.... are there even other places in the thief universe than "The city".

You've ask yourself a good question there, it has been right in front of our noses the whole time. every thief game up till now has been taken place in the city. Maybe the city plays a key role in the balance of the universe. Maybe the keepers where tasked to maintain order by something even greater. Maybe some of these questions will be answered in thief 4, and maybe they will remain questions and keep part of the charm of the Thief universe.

I don't know what to say.... the city is just the city. You know...the city.

[huzi73]

Yeah, i mean it should be renamed, the best name i can think of is... THE city, or why not the CITY. y'know ...

[Secondary]

well, the City is capitalized distinctly whenever mentioned in any in game texts, i thinks thats pretty close.

[jtr7]

It's the Factions and the effect they have on The City that needs Balancing. The Factions built The City and are in a cycle of relative peace leading up to decimating it, and the Keepers would prevent the doomsday scenario. But that's not all, it's layers and layers of City on top of City, like a holy land hearkening back to ancient times, with Pompeian catastrophes from the volcanism. It experiences the metaphorical four seasons of the new life of Spring, maturing of Summer, the decline of Fall, and the death of Winter. It's mystique upon mystique, knowledge built up and lost over and over again. The Keepers have now entered their winter, and someday they will have their Spring.

[Pieter888]

Very nice answer jtr7!
I think I can agree with that.

As Secondary stated: "the City is capitalized distinctly whenever mentioned in any in game texts"

You capitalize a word when you express a Name, Date and Place. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm neither English or American
Knowing that the City is a place it might also just be a coincidence that the City was simply named the City by it's founder.
If I would somehow be the founder of a whole country and I would call it "Country" it is only normal that people refer to it as the Country.

[jtr7]

There are real world examples where The City was the actual name until things changed from the usual historical things.

We have The City and The River. And in truth, most of the time "The City" is mentioned, it's not capitalized, but it is the real name, so I do it every time.

[Pieter888]

explains about everything, thank you.

I only wonder for how long The City has been around before the event of Thief.

[kabatta]

Well...it is The City. For me it represents the whole world that is indirectly influienced by the universal influiences. It represents it's populace that flourishes and expand continuosly. To quote another person in this topic: the factions need a ballance, else the fragile city will collapse onto itself.

[jtr7]

With all three factions currently Balanced, it'll be awhile before that wobble in the gyroscope grows to a dangerous whirl.

[minus0ne]

Interesting topic, The City is one of the most alluring parts of Thief, if not the most. I don't want anything too mystic surrounding The City though (it may be special, but it's just a city state, not too much "divine destiny" please). I'm aware this is a magic filled universe, I just don't want them to go overboard on stuff like The City being a living organism or something like that. For me the thing that really makes the The City so interesting, scary, exciting, surreal, funny and sad, is that it feels like a city full of human beings (amongst other things), with all the political machinations and intrigue that it entails, and all the historical events and societal backdrop to make it come alive.

I'd like to know more about the relationship and war between The City and Blackbrook, not that it should become a major theme or something, but I'd like there to be some further mentioning or reference, or even a mission objective related to it. A mission in Blackbrook could be interesting too, I'd be curious to see what the bigger pagan presence means - mixed architecture perhaps?

Also, I want them to delve a bit deeper into the Baron and/or his henchmen, but not as the main plot, that stuff should always remain in the background and take a back seat to a more interesting plot.

Just throwing in some ideas.

[jtr7]

Layers of history, strata of one dead and/or buried civilization after another, tiers of technomagical constructs and deep knowledge almost totally forgotten. Each civilization discovering unique technology and ways to use magic, leaving behind tantalizing glimpses or troves of such materials or the evidence of.

[huzi73]

Remember, that all these previous civilisations would have been around if they hadnt altered the balance which lead to catastrophe. Does this this mean the keepers have only been around, maintaining the balance, since the start of this new cycle of the city?

[Voodoo]

the keepers remind me of the freemasons and hammerites are somewhat like the knights templar and pagans are pagans.

[Herr_Garrett]

Remember, that all these previous civilisations would have been around if they hadnt altered the balance which lead to catastrophe. Does this this mean the keepers have only been around, maintaining the balance, since the start of this new cycle of the city?

That's not quite certain, but a connexion 'tween the Guild of Enlightment and the Keepers seems plausible.

[jtr7]

As far as what it seems to be, the Keepers have been around since sometime not too long after the volcanism that buried Karath Din calmed down. The City as we know it is the most recent version, and it's built on other layers of city that were there before, some of which still extends even beyond the current city limits, and there are untold numbers of old ruins below. There was time for Karath Din to be evacuated while the rulers and spiritual leaders stayed behind, at least long enough to ensure the catastrophe, so this is where the fan concept of the survivors (many of whom may have been away from KD when the disaster struck, or out at sea) coming back and starting over, seeking to make certain the events that led to destruction don't repeat themselves--assuming corruption had something to do with it, as with every other instance of destruction mentioned in the games.

Other than for spiritual reasons, I wonder why the Guild of Enlightenment did not want the tower to fall. And is it mere coincidence that the tower was the location chosen to hide the Talisman of Fire by the Keepers? It's fun to speculate on, and KD is the most mysterious story other than the Keepers origins.

[huzi73]

The Sunken Citidel sucked by comparison..

[kabatta]

The sunken citadel has in a wierd way a layout that reminds me of the lost city.

[jtr7]

It was the poor man's version of Lost City, but much smaller.