Crates

[Gillie]

I found crates lacking in TDS they had a lot of use in the other games Can make for great climbing for reaching places unable by rope.hidden loot as well.
They were good and useful. So many fan missions have them they are a lot of fun for getting on ledges and harder to reach places
They were so lacking in TDS. I think crates should come back.

[esme]

there are crates in TDS, and they can be used for climbing

there's just not very many of them and the opportunities to use the few there are to get anywhere are limited

[Gillie]

there are crates in TDS, and they can be used for climbing

there's just not very many of them and the opportunities to use the few there are to get anywhere are limited

I agree, they are not as good as they are in T2 though and in so many fan missions.That is it in TDS getting anwhere is limited. :rolleyes:

[Fatherwoodsie]

i thought the shipping/receiving level was awesome with goodies hidden in between the crates

[Telex]

Good thread - I think this exposes an underlying flaw with TDS - there simply wasn't any opportunity to get up to places that weren't required for the mission. There was that little section in Old Quarter, which made me pee myself initially, I was so excited. "ROOFS! At last! I can get on the roofs! All is forgiven TDS!" but then it turned out that the section was very small indeed, and there was no real reason to return except to elude guards and go "look! I'm on the roof!"

We need more sections like this in T4! The exploration bit made the original games so much fun to play and play over and over again.

[Platinumoxicity]

The crates wouldn't have done any good in TDS even if there was places where yo could get using the crates because there wasn't a "drop item" -key. There were only "Throw item forward in a slightly elevated angle starting from exactly 1m height" -key and "Drop item from exactly 1m height" -key. The way objects were manipulated in TDS was so impractical that solving crate-based puzzles would've been impossible.

[Pieter888]

yup, TDS failed in the use of creates and rooftop-areas.
I always found the crates like a portable ladder so I always stock up a few crates at some places where I will be traveling a lot through, so whenever I needed a "Ladder" I'd go back and get myself my crates to go up.

I really liked the rewarding feeling of going somewhere where you aren't supposed to be going using those crates. :)

Put em back, or find a good alternative please!

[ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ]

yup, TDS failed in the use of creates and rooftop-areas.
I always found the crates like a portable ladder so I always stock up a few crates at some places where I will be traveling a lot through, so whenever I needed a "Ladder" I'd go back and get myself my crates to go up.

I really liked the rewarding feeling of going somewhere where you aren't supposed to be going using those crates. :)

Put em back, or find a good alternative please!

This is exactly why crates and rope arrows weren't used in Deadly Shadows. I am amazed the lengths people went to to crate-stack over the walls of the map in the first two games and Ion Storm didn't want people to do that with DS.

[ToMegaTherion]

Crate puzzles and crate stacking in general are mostly pretty silly.

[Gillie]

It is a great feeling reaching somwhere which seems impossible.
I do it all the time in fan missions. Melan's missions are a good example for climbing.
Often finding something,a nice surprise at the end. I did in Melan's "Bad debts" ;)
I would love the crates back, like in TMA. Why silly?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/gillie6/keywellv1-2.jpg

[ToMegaTherion]

I think anyone who likes such crate stacking should be disallowed from criticising anything as "immersion-breaking" forevermore.

[jtr7]

This is exactly why crates and rope arrows weren't used in Deadly Shadows. I am amazed the lengths people went to to crate-stack over the walls of the map in the first two games and Ion Storm didn't want people to do that with DS.

Fun on the side. The lengths people go through are of the same mind as stop-motion animators, for example. The Silent Project not only amused the ones playing that way, but most players in general. ISA really cut so much out and created a stifled world, but I can't help but wonder if it really came from losing weeks of development time at the start, not out of any wisdom. They knew damn well how crazy the players were and they were amused, too, being made up of a large portion of former LGS, themselves. There were no long lines of site over the tops of buildings in TDS either.

[Viktoria]

It is a great feeling reaching somwhere which seems impossible.
I do it all the time in fan missions. Melan's missions are a good example for climbing.
Often finding something,a nice surprise at the end. I did in Melan's "Bad debts" ;)
I would love the crates back, like in TMA. Why silly?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/gillie6/keywellv1-2.jpg

Haha, classic. :D :thumb:
They definitely add a fun element to gameplay, IF you want to participate.

[13LACK13ISHOP]

Only if implemented properly. I mean with realistic physics. Not like that picture that Gillie posted.

[Viktoria]

Yes, of course. I guess I like the fun of it more than the physics behind it.

[CerraMorgan]

Oooo, yes, we definitely need some rooftop adventure. The Thieve's Highway needs more traffic!

Not necessarily crate stacking, though that's a useful way to get up there - the point is to get onto the roof. It's even more fun when there's actually something to do up there, too. The T2 Demo is still one of my favourite missions.

[Gillie]

Well It was fun I did it for. :p
There are often in fan missions anyway something at the end. Usually a fun element.
I love the roofs as well often can be a way of getting there. Or even a few for a hard to reach window.

[Hornpipe]

What about using Physics engine ?

No, I don't work for Nvidia ;)

[esme]

don't think I can get a physx card into my laptop :(

[Hornpipe]

It's not necessary. Nvidia GPU can handle this.

[Secondary]

not so, i found them very useful as distractions, no noise arrows, no problem, grab a crate and chuck it!

i was also able to break into St. Edgar's cathedral without picking the front door by repositioning the well palced crate under the balcony to the far left of the courtyard. it took me awhile to catch on to the crates utilty, and im sure plenty of people do much more impressive things with them.

for instance crates also cast dynamic shadows, you could probably work with that.

i think the problem was that TDS was not made with a lot of convenient ways to use crates, you sort of had to make your own opportunities and there were usually easier ways to accomplisbh your goals already, if you wanted to use crates you relly had to do it on your own momentum.

[jtr7]

In TDS, we were supposed to be able to reposition objects to create shadows where we wanted them. I never saw or needed an opportunity to do that, and moving stuff around isn't quiet or easy enough. Also, moving some objects would get an AI's attention.

[Davehall380]

Some of the things that can be done with creates are nothing short of brilliant. Retrospectivley, it seems that every frobbable object in Thief had some use.

[Secondary]

In TDS, we were supposed to be able to reposition objects to create shadows where we wanted them. I never saw or needed an opportunity to do that, and moving stuff around isn't quiet or easy enough. Also, moving some objects would get an AI's attention.

yeah, thats a feature that needs some improving

[13LACK13ISHOP]

yeah, thats a feature that needs some improving

Maybe the drop button when you are crouched or near a table will place it instead. It was rather annoying having them alert all the guards because you could not place them.

[bambini]

This is exactly why crates and rope arrows weren't used in Deadly Shadows. I am amazed the lengths people went to to crate-stack over the walls of the map in the first two games and Ion Storm didn't want people to do that with DS.

But crate stacking to get to high places is essential. How else would you reach the bow upgrade in T1?

[kabatta]

Don't tell them that it is in the hidden Alarus extension. Aw, snap....Couldn't hold it in.

[esme]

I got into the alarus extension :D

b*gger to get into

b*gger to get out of again .. didn't quite manage that bit

[Davehall380]

Lol.

On a side note, could you get into the Alaurus extension and was there anything in there? im assuming that its that area on the bonehoard map that I spent quite a long time trying to find!

[bambini]

On a side note, could you get into the Alaurus extension and was there anything in there? im assuming that its that area on the bonehoard map that I spent quite a long time trying to find!
Yes indeedy. That's where the bow upgrade is hidden and it's what we were talking about. Keep up, sparky :D

[esme]

Lol.

On a side note, could you get into the Alaurus extension and was there anything in there? im assuming that its that area on the bonehoard map that I spent quite a long time trying to find!I repeat, I got in there and it's a b*gger to get in, I just didn't manage to get back out and so had to resort to a quicksave, as to whether there is anything of value in there like the bow upgrade well that is left as an exercise for the reader to discover

I have heard stories of the Alarus Extention, and I have heard people saying that there is a bow upgrade in there, some saying it doesn't exist. Then I saw it. The back wall did not come to the very edges of the passage. Looking in, I could see the Alarus Extention.

Oh how I longed for a scouting orb. The crack was too thin to get through, but a scouting orb might fit. And then I looked up. There was a gap high up that a person might fit through, if one could get up there. I longed for that scouting orb again.

First the easy bit. I shot a rope arrow in to the bit of wood and mantel up. After several tries and falls, I got to the sloping bit of roof that is hanging down. I just stood at on the far north side of the beam, faced north and mantled. Simple really.

Then came the hard bit. I must have tried it about 50 times, but I finally made it through the hole. Behind, the roof had caved in a little, but the rest was fine. So I jumped down onto the roof remains, and I was in the Alarus Extention

link to discussion thread for full story - http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=480079#post480079

[jtr7]

And here ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ demonstrates wishing to deprive people of classic non-Thief Dark Engine fun of turning the game world into a giant jungle gym with great building blocks and magic bugs, which are not about violence, but using that world like a great toy-box, adding even more replayability and goofy sidebar playstyles to fill pages with stories and screenshots.

TDS devs didn't remove this, the Flesh engine simply didn't have those engine bugs to exploit. :rolleyes:
LGS didn't intentionally build those bugs in to be exploited, neither did they remove most of them for TMA. They did get rid of the ability to toss a crate up on a wall or ledge to crate an anchor point to fire a rope arrow into it. They made it so the rope arrow is lost and the crate is knocked back.

[Subjective Effect]

My fav bit of OMM (for those that remember):

"Here is a quote from some excited Thief II players on the newsgroups:

In the "meat" locker, you can jump up on a platform to climb up on the roof through an open vent. When you're on that platform, you can see one live spider. The key is near .


Crates+spider+key=kill me now. If I would ever hear that quote from my own son, I would shove him out a window faster than Clapton did when he heard his son say he liked Boyz II Men."