Capes, Cloak, and Realism in Stealth

[darkmagicasorseer]

I hope this topic have not been posted yet.

Have you guys ever wondered what REALLY make Garrett INVISIBLE in the shadows?
If you guess it is his cloak (or capes) you and I may be right, because I believe that just having KEEPER training and GLYPH magic doesn't make Garrett invisible in the shadows.
In my opinion, the training only gives Garrett the ability to gauge his visibility, hence the light gem.
In the third thief game Garrett is not shown wearing a cloak, even then he still able to hide in small pockets of shadow with ease. Which make no sense. because looking at his model, there are exposed skins and other parts of armor that can contradicts the elements of a shadow that he hides in.
The first two games TDP and TMA have Garrett with cloaks in the cut-scene which in my opinion a reasonable way for him to be stealthy.

Maybe the limitations of the graphics in the 90's and early 2005, but it is unreasonable now for Garrett or any protagonist in the next sequel to be running naked in leather outfit.

[darkmagicasorseer]

If the name is too long, just call me dark, it my real name.

[Tushaar]

Garrett's outfit in Thief 3 was indeed riddiculus, let's hope they make it right again in Thief 4.

[fayfuya]

I would really like cloack in THI4F, and on first person, I would like to se my body as it was in TDS, but this time, because of the cloack, when I'll run and turn around quickly I would like to see my cloack...or if people like it, we should have the option to see the hood around the screen, and I just want THI4F to be as much realistic as possible, I want to feel when I play the game like I AM garrett, and not playing garrett

[Herr_Garrett]

I like the grammar of this thread.

[Peter Smith]

Garrett is not wearing a cloak in Thief 2, either, as you can see with the scouting orb. Sure, in some cut-scenes Garrett is seen walking outside with a cloak. That is because it is cold. I think Garrett does not wear it when thieving. Garrett has never exhibited any magical powers. Furthermore, a cloak would slow him down and make him less nimble. I think that Garrett is simply skilled at finding shadows and using them to his advantage. To me, it makes no sense at all to introduce a magic cape. I think it is not consistent with the Thief world.

[darkmagicasorseer]

Garrett is not wearing a cloak in Thief 2, either, as you can see with the scouting orb. Sure, in some cut-scenes Garrett is seen walking outside with a cloak. That is because it is cold. I think Garrett does not wear it when thieving. Garrett has never exhibited any magical powers. Furthermore, a cloak would slow him down and make him less nimble. I think that Garrett is simply skilled at finding shadows and using them to his advantage. To me, it makes no sense at all to introduce a magic cape. I think it is not consistent with the Thief world.

I do agree with your statements, however there are several things I need to point out.

1. It's true that Garrett in TMA have no cloak when we look upon his scouting orb, but the fact is that it is the game own limitation in its graphics that cause the model having no cape or cloak.

2. When I first played TDP, I felt Garrett moves very slow even when running, so I believe that there is something that restricting him it may be that he wanted to minimize his noise level or something else. Did you saw the cut scene where Victoria sacrifices herself in TMA? Garrett enters the Mechanist Cathedral using rope arrow and he move swiftly into hiding which contradicts that the cape is slowing him down.

3. Garrett was a Keeper, and as a former Keeper he knows how to use Glyphs as shown in TDS but he doesn't have any magical powers. The cape is just an ordinary black cape, to camouflage Garrett's appearance and visibility within the shadow. There is no magic in it.

4. I love the cape idea, Garrett may have the option to ditch his cape when he required to be extra nimble and mobile. When doing actions such as running, climbing, sprinting, and swimming. but less on stealth due to his uncovered weapons such as the fire arrow, sword (or dagger), and the list goes on. You can take off the cape when you start thieving if you like and you can fold it and stored in your inventory.

[darkmagicasorseer]

That suggestion is great fayfuya!

[Hamadriyad]

Garrett is not wearing a cloak in Thief 2, either, as you can see with the scouting orb. Sure, in some cut-scenes Garrett is seen walking outside with a cloak. That is because it is cold. I think Garrett does not wear it when thieving. Garrett has never exhibited any magical powers. Furthermore, a cloak would slow him down and make him less nimble. I think that Garrett is simply skilled at finding shadows and using them to his advantage. To me, it makes no sense at all to introduce a magic cape. I think it is not consistent with the Thief world.

Garrett wears cloak in missions. We can see that in a lot of cutscenes and intros. And no, cloak does not slow him down because sword, tools and such a loot never did slow him down.
Scouting orb is not a proof. It is just a technical issue.

[jtr7]

If Garrett is slow when running, it is because he weighs 300 pounds. :p

He lives in a coastal city, with four seasons. It would be cold and damp. His Keeper training does SOMEthing that makes the Keepers cautious about him, enough to warn the Glyph-changed Enforcers. We never see him do anything that we couldn't do ourselves as far as his hiding in shadows, yet he has a strongly unrealistic edge. We just don't know what it is.

No power-ups, no extra magic or special clothing or gear, please.

[Myth]

Slow? In the first two games? Learn to bunny hop young taffer. Slow - that's a TDS only feature.

[jtr7]

Heh heh heh, exploits.

But yeah, it just makes sense that he can't all out sprint. Faster than a jog, but definitely not sprinting.

[Vae]

I like the grammar of this thread.

Me like it too...

If Garrett is slow when running, it is because he weighs 300 pounds. :p

He lives in a coastal city, with four seasons. It would be cold and damp. His Keeper training does SOMEthing that makes the Keepers cautious about him, enough to warn the Glyph-changed Enforcers. We never see him do anything that we couldn't do ourselves as far as his hiding in shadows, yet he has a strongly unrealistic edge. We just don't know what it is.


I had always assumed that Garrett was using his cloak to help conceal himself in T1/T2 (which can be used to help blend in without being magical).

[jtr7]

Well yeah. Practical, but the cloak does not explain melting into the shadows nearly as well has he can.

[Pieter888]

I like the option when you can discard your cloak for some extra speed running speed, you just put it into your inventory and when the time is right you just put it back on again.

PS: why is batman in the tags....?

[jtr7]

Garrett already does that kind of thing for us, like we never see his bag of loot, or the great majority of his gear... or cloak. :p

Batman's probably in the tags 'cause a lot of the suggestions or discussion remind of him. Let's keep it practical and remember what he does, and it won't get too Batman-like.

[darkmagicasorseer]

I like the option when you can discard your cloak for some extra speed running speed, you just put it into your inventory and when the time is right you just put it back on again.

PS: why is batman in the tags....?

1. I imagined how would batman look in steam punk, or in medieval times. When batman substitute his mask for a simple hood, in some way he resembles the master thief.

2. Because both of them should be wearing capes! Batman would look naked in his tight latex if he is not wearing one and this is also applies to Garrett himself, because revealing his small stature would cause him to lose his "mysterious aura".

3. Maybe its just me, because I like both of them, cool and mysterious.

[13LACK13ISHOP]

Garret should were full black. Garrets cloak is absolutely essential because one of the main aspects of stealth is silhouette. Garret should have gloves which cover the whole hand and where a mask to conceal the face. Also garrets clothes should be the blackest shade of black.

[Secondary]

Garrets atire in TDS was far from realistic as far as stealth goes, pretty cool looking but it could be better.

just throw in a cape (with nice physics in gameplay so its not stiff) or a cloak.

his movements could be better too, he should be more furtive when lit up and more free and efficient in darkness (the actual animations could change)

[Nothke]

I am for robe! Garry in TDS looks like gimp!

But remember the cutscene in TDS when Gammal is uncovered... Garrett comes into a grave with no cloak... And then cutscene starts, and suddenly... There it is! WTF did it come from??? Oh yes... I forgot he has got pretty deep pockets full of candlesticks, so maybe he got robe too.. eh? why not?

[darkmagicasorseer]

Garret should were full black. Garrets cloak is absolutely essential because one of the main aspects of stealth is silhouette. Garret should have gloves which cover the whole hand and where a mask to conceal the face. Also garrets clothes should be the blackest shade of black.

I like the idea, for Garrett to be all black in color, but I'm not so sure about the mask, do you mean he is wearing a half mask like a bandit or a full mask like the keeper enforcer?

[esme]

Garretts mask is on the inside ...oooOOOoooo...

that sounds really profound but I have no idea what it means

fun post. no serious content implied or intended, any resembance to actual game characters or behaviour is unintentional and a complete accident ok, all rights reserved, please don't sue me, copyright mmix 35/\/\3 :D

[darkmagicasorseer]

If Garrett have a bandit mask (that covers the mouth) under a his hood can look cool thou.

[Nothke]

mask! nooooooo! His hood covers his face with shadow! NO MASKS PLEASE!!

[darkmagicasorseer]

mask! nooooooo! His hood covers his face with shadow! NO MASKS PLEASE!!

Sorry, okay no mask everyone!

[clock12345]

i think the character can chose to be with cloak and cape or without them. i really liked the way he looks in thief 3

[13LACK13ISHOP]

On second thoughts maybe no mask. But I suppose its leaves him a bit noticeable becouse of the colour of his face.

[Cetus Amicus]

I always liked the idea of Garrett wearing a cloak because he wore them in the cutscenes from the early games; they really gave the character an air of stealth. However I don't really find anything wrong with the outfit in DS other than the fact that perhaps the leather belts on the arms seemed a bit redundant. :hmm:

[darkmagicasorseer]

Lower his hood, and wrap his body with his cloak will make him "invisible" in the shadows...

[jtr7]

Yep. His face was so exposed in-game in TDS because the hood would obscure the camera's view, so it had to be away from his eyes.

[bambini]

I love the idea of a cloak, but let's face it, it's not the most practical item of clothing when you're climbing rooftops and squeezing through small spaces. Sure, it will camouflage you in the shadows, but it will just end up getting snagged on something or tripping you up when you need to be nimble.

Has anyone ever read "Watchmen"? I'd recommend it if you haven't. In it, a hero called Dollar Bill dies after getting his cape caught up in a revolving door while chasing some bank robbers. The bank robbers shoot him at point-blank range before he can untangle his cloak. One of the heroes, Nite Owl, discusses in his memoirs about how he developed his costume. He talks about Dollar Bill's fate, and that he (Nite Owl) experimented with a cloak to help him hide in shadows, but found it too unwieldy. He instead opted for an outfit that offered him some protection (with leather and chainmail) and a mask as a disguise.

I think that Garrett, as an experienced thief, will have played around with his outfit and come to similar conclusions: a hood to hide features, but no cloak as it will get in the way. His outfit should be instead very black and close-fitting. Like a ninja :)

As for his skills with hiding in the shadows, the games make a big fuss about his Keeper training, and how the Keepers are skilled at moving around without being seen. Cast your mind waaaaay back to the start of T1: Garrett joins the Keepers after he picks the pocket of a Keeper, who is amazed that Garrett can actually see him. Where you or I could still be seen in the shadows, Garrett's Keeper training allow him to BECOME the shadows. Like a ninja :)

[Prospekt1125]

Has anyone here ever read any of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series? In it, there's a character with a cloak that is basically like an invisibility cloak, so that he fades into the darkness around him. I thought perhaps Garrett wore a cloak such as this (even though it was never explained in-game). It would certainly explain why guards don't see him even when they are a few feet away... if he wears a cloak in missions, that is.

I think it would be interesting if Garrett's super-stealthyness was explained more in the fourth game, whether is it through extraordinary ability or through the aid of a cloak like this (or both!), because it is clear that his abilities are unnatural. Even the Keepers (who are incredibly stealthy anyway) seem to wonder about his abilities - remember in TDS when you get the first Keeper missions from Artemus? At the end of the briefing Garrett disappears suddenly and even Artemus doesn't notice him leave.

[esme]

see the incredibles also for why cloaks are bad