Which series will be better Streets of Gotham or Batman and Robin

[Batfan22]

Just joined the forums( first one for me :wave: ) and thought it would be cool to try making a thread so i was wondering which series you think would be better, Streets of Gotham or Batman and Robin

[Jason Todd]

Right off the bat I'm gonna say Streets of Gotham because the first issue hooked me more, but the second issue of B&R was pretty interesting...but yeah, for now I'll say Streets of Gotham.

[WarrENDeatH]

Batman and Robin is just okay, they are playing that annoying kid thing on Damian too much and frankly it's annoying.

[Lunar]

Batman the Animated Series

[batfan08]

I like both.Contrary to what I said before,Mr.Morrison's book intrigued me,and as always,Paul Dini is fantastic.

[EliteF50]

Batman & Robin.

[Abeja]

I think Dinis books are the weaker out of the 4 to choose from. Batman and Robin all the way.

[JawsFanJesse]

Batman the Animated Series

:thumb: :thumb: yea

[KillerCroc]

Not picking between the two. Batman and Robin is introducing a new line of villlains mixed in with the legends that we all know and love. Streets of Gotham is giving those previous legends the power they deserve (come on Croc!) But Gotham Sirens takes the lead for me. :p

[EliteF50]

Not picking between the two. Batman and Robin is introducing a new line of villlains mixed in with the legends that we all know and love. Streets of Gotham is giving those previous legends the power they deserve (come on Croc!) But Gotham Sirens takes the lead for me. :p

Is Gotham Sirens really that good? I was at my local comic book store today, and I couldn't decide between Batman & Robin or Gotham Sirens.

[DarkCrusader67]

But Gotham Sirens takes the lead for me. :p

really?!? i LOVE the concept of what they're trying to do but i feel like something's missing...

[DarkCrusader67]

Is Gotham Sirens really that good? I was at my local comic book store today, and I couldn't decide between Batman & Robin or Gotham Sirens.

I'd go with Sirens just cause it's a lot faster paced than B&R.

[Abeja]

Sorry I like Paul Dini, but there just doesnt seem like enough there to make a great series. Batman and Robin is something special and will be talked about for awhile.

[Drazar]

Batman & Robin is something that moves the story more. Paul Dini makes good stories but he doesn't break the mold so to speak. It's a shame if you can't read both of them but i can understand people with their money budgets. ^^

EDIT: Basicly Grant Morrison continues the story on Batman & Robin. While Paul Dini keeps tellin stories that are basicly Batman vs. street thugs and then you got also 5-10 pages of Manhunter, who you have no idea probably. The good things about Dini's runs are that he can make a C-list hero (Mr. Freeze, Hush and now Firefly apparently) into an A-class villain. :D

You should check out our Streets of Gotham and other comic threads, here you go:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=90063 <-- Streets of Gotham
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=89457 <-- Batman & Robin.

[The_Dark_Knight]

Streets of Gotham.

[Drazar]

Is Gotham Sirens really that good? I was at my local comic book store today, and I couldn't decide between Batman & Robin or Gotham Sirens.

Gotham Sirens #1 was pretty bland and boring. Sure it had cleavage and ass shots but if that comic doesn't get into action by #3 i'm dropping it for sure.

[Game Weasel]

I wanted to like B & R, I really did... but I find Damian so absolutely repulsive that I just can't enjoy that storyline at all. I don't particularly like anything Morrison has done in his run with Batman, but if he'd not brought that little brat into existence I'd probably at least be able to keep reading it.

As it is, at least in Streets of Gotham I can see more of Grayson Batman without having to deal with so much of the bile-raising presence of that loathsome little boy. Still, even a few pages of Damian was enough to leave me feeling like I'd wasted my money, which actually was comforting for me because it showed me that it's not just Morrison's writing I dislike, it's just the character in general; even one of my favorite comic book writers couldn't make me like Damian for just a few pages of one issue. With that in mind I'm likely to end up dropping both books and avoiding them entirely unless a miracle occurs and Damian is killed (no, turning evilER would not be enough to make me content to read again, I want that disgusting wretch dead)


As for Gotham Sirens, I liked it alto myself, I especially adored Ivy and Harley at the end there, I really didn't anticipate them having the hutzpah to pin Selina to the wall in such a way and it reminded me of just how much I love seeing Dini write with these two characters. That said, it is most definitely a fans book, not a comic book reader's book. If you particularly LIKE the characters in the book (for example, I love both Ivy and Catwoman far more than I've ever liked Batman) then you will probably enjoy the book immensely. If you're just a general Batfan the book may not be all that intriguing to you.
My only gripe with Gotham Sirens so far is the Artist putting all three of the women in high heels... You cannot run around doing cartwheels, backflips, and late night rooftop runs, while wearing three inch heels dammit!!!

[Batfan22]

Right off the bat I'm gonna say Streets of Gotham because the first issue hooked me more, but the second issue of B&R was pretty interesting...but yeah, for now I'll say Streets of Gotham.
Thaats ezactly how i felt but after #2 of Batman and robin idk there both preety good.

[Drazar]

Game weasler why the strong hatred for Damian?=p

[Game Weasel]

Game weasler why the strong hatred for Damian?=p


Well first off, just a forewarning, I'm guessing just from your forum signature aloen we're very unlikely to see eye to eye on anything I'm about to say... :p
With that said:
It's a writer's thing. I find him to be an incredible uninspired, stereotypical character and to make it worse he's very much a "Mary-Sue" type character.
He comes onto the scene and he's already able to take Tim Drake one-on-one, his young mind is already shows even more deductive reasoning and skill than his own father (who turns out to be little more than a sperm donor really, since Talia grew Damian in a gosh darn tube) and to top it all off, Grant is forcing him into the Bat-mythos as quickly as humanly possible.
Here's a man who did an entire storyline that incorporated 70+ years of Batman's history... then he creates this character and sort've crams him into the family line in just a few short issues by making him a potential future Batman and turning him so quickly into Robin, etc. etc.

It's the sort of ridiculous character construction I'd expect to see in a fan boys poorly written fanfic, not in an actual comic; it doesn't help that Morrison's shown himself to be capable of writing much better, more interesting characters, which leaves me wondering why the hell he wasted his own time and the audiences by introducing a character who is the very definition of the "spoiled brat" archetype.

[Abeja]

I hated Damian at first too, but he does have great genes. Ive seen some people speculate that Damian might turn out NOT to be his son, but I think he is here to stay. But the way Dini and Morrison have handled him, Ive eaten up. The conversation with Hush, how he treats criminals, how he treats **** and Alfred. I thought #666 was an amazing issue too.

[Game Weasel]

I hated Damian at first too, but he does have great genes. Ive seen some people speculate that Damian might turn out NOT to be his son, but I think he is here to stay. But the way Dini and Morrison have handled him, Ive eaten up. The conversation with Hush, how he treats criminals, how he treats **** and Alfred. I thought #666 was an amazing issue too.

You just described all the reasons I don't like him. ;)

[Jason Todd]

I hate Damien with a passion...he's such an a-hole...and he annoys me SO much. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the little bastard was Jason Todd's son...after all he did used to live with Talia & Ra's.

[Drazar]

Damian was annoyning until he became Robin. Now his prickness has turned into fine beaty. Telling Tim Wayne to become the new Batgirl, wanting to chop off Harley Quinn's tongue off. Beating up a fat transvestive man/woman and whatnot... just Outrageous! <3

[Jason Todd]

Damian was annoyning until he became Robin. Now his prickness has turned into fine beaty. Telling Tim Wayne to become the new Batgirl, wanting to chop off Harley Quinn's tongue off. Beating up a fat transvestive man/woman and whatnot... just Outrageous! <3

I only liked him telling off Tim...thats the only time I've ever liked/respected Damien

[Batfan22]

I think later on Damien should get killed off, Richard should blame himself and go back to being nightwing and Red Robin should become batman

[Jason Todd]

I think later on Damien should get killed off, Richard should blame himself and go back to being nightwing and Red Robin should become batman

Lmao..Im all for that. Except Damien gets killed saving the returning Bruce wayne...gets shot and dies. Bruce returns to being Batman, Grayson to Nightwing and Tim stays Red Robin

[Batfan22]

Yep that works

[Drazar]

Ah well we know he sells his soul to satan when he turns 14 so a death won't stop him. :p

[Jason Todd]

I think Damien would make a good fit as Jason Todd's Robin to be honest...they both have LOTS of problems..

[Batfan22]

Haha Drazar : Ah well we know he sells his soul to satan when he turns 14 so a death won't stop him.

[Game Weasel]

Ah well we know he sells his soul to satan when he turns 14 so a death won't stop him. :p

*sighs and begins slamming his keyboard into his face over and over* Why?! Why!? WHY!? Why did I not stop reading Batman comics sooner?!

...And yes, I'm serious. Morrison is the first person to come up with a storyline I disliked so much that it actually made me stop reading Batman comics. The only ones I'm reading now are Gotham Sirens and Detective Comics, and as soon as Rucka's Batwoman focused run ends I'll probably be dropping Detective as well.:(

[EliteF50]

So... is Bruce Wayne gone for good? :( He's never gonna return?

[Jason Todd]

Im sure someone will make some time warp and Bruce pops out..some how

[Game Weasel]

So... is Bruce Wayne gone for good? :( He's never gonna return?

No, they've already showed him alive in the era of ancient man. In fact, he was drawing a bat on a cave wall with a piece of charcoal... In other words he's leaving a cave drawing which will be found by geologists and archeologists in the present day and, voila, suddenly the JLA will realize that Batman is alive and trapped in ancient times! It's just a matter of time before they implement it as a method of bringing Bruce back. It'll probably happen as soon as sales start to dip.
If Grant has finished this long on-going storyline of his by then, then things will be peachy and the story of Bruce's return may actually end up well written... If not and Didio makes him cut off his storyline in order to bring Bruce back to try and regain sales, then it'll be crap.

[Jason Todd]

No, they've already showed him alive in the era of ancient man. In fact, he was drawing a bat on a cave wall with a piece of charcoal... In other words he's leaving a cave drawing which will be found by geologists and archeologists in the present day and, voila, suddenly the JLA will realize that Batman is alive and trapped in ancient times! It's just a matter of time before they implement it as a method of bringing Bruce back. It'll probably happen as soon as sales start to dip.
If Grant has finished this long on-going storyline of his by then, then things will be peachy and the story of Bruce's return may actually end up well written... If not and Didio makes him cut off his storyline in order to bring Bruce back to try and regain sales, then it'll be crap.

Hm...that cave drawing idea is genius....

[EliteF50]

No, they've already showed him alive in the era of ancient man. In fact, he was drawing a bat on a cave wall with a piece of charcoal... In other words he's leaving a cave drawing which will be found by geologists and archeologists in the present day and, voila, suddenly the JLA will realize that Batman is alive and trapped in ancient times! It's just a matter of time before they implement it as a method of bringing Bruce back. It'll probably happen as soon as sales start to dip.
If Grant has finished this long on-going storyline of his by then, then things will be peachy and the story of Bruce's return may actually end up well written... If not and Didio makes him cut off his storyline in order to bring Bruce back to try and regain sales, then it'll be crap.

I see. Thank you.

By the way, how did Bruce "die"?

[Jason Todd]

I see. Thank you.

By the way, how did Bruce "die"?

He got shot by Darkseid's Omega ray I believe.

[Batfan22]

Batman's apparent death occurred in Final Crisis #6 when he confronted Darkseid. Batman proclaimed that he would break his "no-gun" rule while facing Darkseid. Wielding an Apokalips-based gun, Batman shot Darkseid in the shoulder with a radioactive bullet made of Radion (the bullet used to kill Orion), just as Darkseid unleashed his Omega Sanction, or the "life that is death", upon Batman.[82] However, the Omega Sanction does not actually kill its target. The Omega Sanction sends the consciousness of the target into parallel worlds. Although the presence of Batman (Bruce Wayne's) corpse would suggest that he is dead, at the conclusion of Final Crisis it is revealed that Batman had been sent to the distant past where he is able to watch the passing of Anthro.[83][84]

ahh wikipedia

[EliteF50]

Ahhh, I see. Thanks, guys.

[Jason Todd]

Ahhh, I see. Thanks, guys.

No prob...and while writing Drazar I saw you picked up Arkham Asylum living hell...did my review help sway you? lol

[EliteF50]

No prob...and while writing Drazar I saw you picked up Arkham Asylum living hell...did my review help sway you? lol

Actually, I got this one:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/b/bb/Arkham_Asylum_Living_Hell_5.jpg/300px-Arkham_Asylum_Living_Hell_5.jpg

And boy was it crappy.

I went in there looking to buy Hush and Living Hell, but I couldn't find the one in your review, so I got this one.

Oh well, at least Hush was amazing.

[Jason Todd]

Hm...thats like issue for of the 6 issue arc, so you had it all outta context.

And hush is one of my top three comics ever. Along with Identity Crisis & Green Arrow Year One.

[EliteF50]

I know, a quick Google session showed me that. :(

Now I have a new rule: If Batman isn't in the comic... DON'T BUY IT.

[Jason Todd]

I know, a quick Google session showed me that. :(

Now I have a new rule: If Batman isn't in the comic... DON'T BUY IT.

Lol sorry dude...if ya ever find all the other issues for cheap or hardcover I'd get it, good read

[EliteF50]

Don't apologize... without your reviews, I wouldn't know if Batman and Robin 1&2 were good! :)

By the way, do you think Drazar should do a review for Batmania (If he wants)? He really knows his stuff.

[Jason Todd]

Don't apologize... without your reviews, I wouldn't know if Batman and Robin 1&2 were good! :)

By the way, do you think Drazar should do a review for Batmania (If he wants)? He really knows his stuff.

Well croc wrote the first B&R review so Ill give him credit as well, and when I first had the idea to start a site for reviews it was in Drazar's thread, I pitched it to him and Amp and Drazar said he wasn't interested in blogging he just likes forum stuff.

[KillerCroc]

Well croc wrote the first B&R review so Ill give him credit as well, and when I first had the idea to start a site for reviews it was in Drazar's thread, I pitched it to him and Amp and Drazar said he wasn't interested in blogging he just likes forum stuff. You beat me too it. I asked Amp about 5 minutes before if I could do a review. Oh well, next week I will be reviewing some more comics. Plural. ;) I want to review the Gotham Sirens #2 the most, I'll race ya too it! My comic book store welcomes me at 6 am. :D Also check the site for the summary of Calender Man!

[Abeja]

Game Weasel apparently Batman & Robin is the second part of Morrisons story out of 3. Ive liked the way Dini has handled him the most especially talking to Hush, and issue #666, which is an alternate timeline not the future.

[Game Weasel]

Game Weasel apparently Batman & Robin is the second part of Morrisons story out of 3. Ive liked the way Dini has handled him the most especially talking to Hush, and issue #666, which is an alternate timeline not the future.

I am aware of all this. I'm too big a comic book fan not to know it; I may not like Morrison's writing but I'm still a Bat fan and I've been keeping a very close eye on the developments even once I stopped reading the actual comics.
Sadly, despite Dini being my favorite Bat writer even he's not been able to make Damian palpable for me. And while I'm aware 666 is only a "potential/alternate" I've learned to know better than to ever write anything out when it comes to Morrison, he's just crazy enough to do it, and he's too popular for any editor to stop him.

... I'd best stop myself before I go on a rant.
I'm off to bed, good night everyone!

[Abeja]

Meh, its alot better than what Marvel is doing. Ive heard people disliking Morrison before, and Damian. I can certainly understand why. Geoff Johns on GL, Flash, Superboy, and Morrison on Batman. Mix in awesome artists and some other great writers like Tomasi, Rucka, Robinson, Dini Id say there isnt a whole lot I would change about what DC is doing.

When did you stop reading Morrisons run? Ill admit the ending wasnt exactly my cup of tea either, then all the Final Crisis tie-ins and stuff. I just really enjoyed his run, and the artists he had werent too shabby either. I thought Club of Heroes with Williams was my favorite arc.

[EliteF50]

Since Richard hates the cape, why doesn't he make a new Batsuit? Something like this:

http://i39.tinypic.com/30mu3og.png

A mixture of Batman Beyond, Nightwing, and Batman.

[Jason Todd]

That'd be pretty sweet to be honest...did you read my article?

[EliteF50]

Your Batman and Robin #2 review? Yes, I have.

[Jason Todd]

Yes...awesome right? lol jk

[EliteF50]

Lol, yeah. Honestly, though. I'm gonna read the reviews before buying any comics from now on. I like your reviews.

Croc's doing a great job, as well, and so is Amp.

[Abeja]

Read reviews? What books are u looking at that you cant decide on?

[EliteF50]

Read reviews? What books are u looking at that you cant decide on?

I trust Batmania's reviews. I just don't want to spend money on a crappy comic.

[Abeja]

I read reviews for stuff too, like the recent JLA Cry for Justice. I was wondering cause i just dont know where you could wrong at this point. But if i were choosing, definitely would get Batman & Robin and the monthly Batman, then Red Robin, and Detective.

[Jason Todd]

Thanks Elite i appreciate it, i like your movie reviews to be honest, I'm looking forward to your Batman forever review. and I checked out Cry for Justice...wasn't alot of action but its definitely interesting, especially with Team Green (Lantern & Arrow)

[Drazar]

Since Richard hates the cape, why doesn't he make a new Batsuit? Something like this.A mixture of Batman Beyond, Nightwing, and Batman.

While that definatly is a sweet looking fan art. We have to remember its Gotham who needs to believe its Batman there. Not someone else. The cape is a big part of the theatrics and serves as a big element to instill fear. Tho i do kinda like Richard's batcostume, here's a really good piece of art of it: click me! (http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2009/07/bm_688_dylux-1-copy.jpg)

[Game Weasel]

Meh, its alot better than what Marvel is doing. Ive heard people disliking Morrison before, and Damian. I can certainly understand why. Geoff Johns on GL, Flash, Superboy, and Morrison on Batman. Mix in awesome artists and some other great writers like Tomasi, Rucka, Robinson, Dini Id say there isnt a whole lot I would change about what DC is doing.

When did you stop reading Morrisons run? Ill admit the ending wasnt exactly my cup of tea either, then all the Final Crisis tie-ins and stuff. I just really enjoyed his run, and the artists he had werent too shabby either. I thought Club of Heroes with Williams was my favorite arc.

I'll certainly give you that one. I used to love Marvel, but they de-powered Rogue, have made poor Psylock absolutely FUBAR, and they had a sniper assassin Steve Rogers-the super hero who introduced me to super heroes... I stopped read. I tried a couple of marvel books sense then but I just don't like how they do things anymore.


Back to Morrison's run, I read it from his start on the book all the way till the end of RIP.

Several times I went "Why am I still buying this?! All right, next time I'm in the store I'm telling them to take this off my pull list." but I just couldn't DO it. Another 3 bucks wasted every month on a story I wasn't even enjoying.
Finally RIP ended and on that day I went in to pick up the issue and said "Take Batman off the list." My local comic shop owner, Richard, stared at me like I was mad: "Wait... I'm sorry say that again, you want me to take Batman off your list? It's the one comic you've had on your list since you FIRST started coming here!"

It wasn't a happy moment for either of us. :(
I gave BftC a shot but it lost me after #2 Final Crisis... I sampled it in the store and put it back on the shelf after getting about halfway through the book. The only part of FC I enjoyed was Greg Rucka's tie-in with Cain, which I find thoroughly enjoyable.


Once again I found that it's my experience as a writer, rather than my experience as a Batman fan, that made me dislike Morrison's run, for example the thing that everyone loved I absolutely loathed.
Everyone else seemed to thoroughly enjoy Club of Heroes, but when they were all stuck on the island together all I could do was think "...Come on, seriously? Agatha Christie? You could have come up with your own story but instead you've put a bunch of superheroes into the roles from an Christie murder mystery?"
It was just dull and boring to me. If you've read that story then you already knew what was going to happen in Morrison's version, you already knew who the bad guy must be, you could already predict which of the heroes were going to die, and you already knew for sure that Batman would save the day eventually.
It was just a big yawn for me; I could appreciate that it was a well written story, I could appreciate that he was making good use of old Batman lore, but the whole thing was ruined for me because all I could do was sit there and think: "Come on, Bruce Wayne's been shown to read Christie, and Poe, and Conan Doyle; how the hell has he not figured out what's going on within the first five freakin' minutes of being on this island!?"
It took the World's Greatest Detective way to long to recognize that he was in a scenario lifted straight out of a classic mystery novel.

[Drazar]

Wait. Why did you cancel Batman after R.I.P? =O

Regarding Black Glove story: The island story was mediocore/decent to say, i loved the art for the different timeframes but as Grant Morrison canonized everything in Batman history he atleast made one good decision: He made the group of superheroes into a total loca outside Knight and Square. =p

[EliteF50]

While that definatly is a sweet looking fan art. We have to remember its Gotham who needs to believe its Batman there. Not someone else. The cape is a big part of the theatrics and serves as a big element to instill fear. Tho i do kinda like Richard's batcostume, here's a really good piece of art of it: click me! (http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2009/07/bm_688_dylux-1-copy.jpg)

Thank you, I made it. :p This was the original:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2zs7jv4.jpg

[EliteF50]

Thanks Elite i appreciate it, i like your movie reviews to be honest, I'm looking forward to your Batman forever review. and I checked out Cry for Justice...wasn't alot of action but its definitely interesting, especially with Team Green (Lantern & Arrow)

Thank you. :)

[Game Weasel]

Wait. Why did you cancel Batman after R.I.P? =O

Regarding Black Glove story: The island story was mediocore/decent to say, i loved the art for the different timeframes but as Grant Morrison canonized everything in Batman history he atleast made one good decision: He made the group of superheroes into a total loca outside Knight and Square. =p

I quite after RIP because it was FINALLY enough to make me quit. I'd been WANTING to quit from about three issues into Morrison's run. I just don't like how he writes Batman... Or any of his villains... Or pretty much any Gotham related character. It's not my specific flavor for Batman (and let's face it there have been a LOT of different versions of Batman, we all have our specific favorites). Despite not liking what Morrison was doing I kept going "But this is BATMAN... I can't stop reading about Batman! I love Batman!"

Of course some rational corner of my brain responds "Yeah but you love your hard earned cash too yet you're chucking away three bucks every month on a title you don't like!"
But then the fan side of my brain would say "BUT IT'S BATMAN!!!!" and I'd keep freakin' buying it! :mad2:

Finally We had the Devil cosplaying as Thomas Wayne in a Batsuit, the joker dressed up as a Marilyn Manson groupie, and the mother of all laughing stocks... a cliche Flaming aircraft crashing into the water finale to the story. It was all just too much. When I read that I was done, I wanted nothing more to do with it. I bought Denny O'Neil's little whatever happened to the caped crusader thing and thought "Dammit... Can't I have a alternate universe title where I can get some more O'Neil's stories?" and then came Battle For the Cowl and two issues in I was like "That's it... I'm done."

I read Batman & Robin #1 in the store and walked out without buying a thing, came back next time, picked up Detective Comics (Greg Rucka signed my copy! :D ) Gotham Sirens and Streets of Gotham. Next time I go in I'll be telling them to take SoG off my pull list. I've come to accept that until the man under the cowl is Bruce Wayne again I simply don't care about Batman at all, and I've come to acknowledge that if the writer on the front cover is named Morrison I simply shouldn't buy it.

[Drazar]

Battle for the Cowl was pretty mediocore but the action was sweet. Tony Daniel isn't definatly the best writer around and it should have been Judd Winnick who would explain Jason Todd becoming a villain, not a new writer. ^^;

Well on RIP. We don't know was Dr. Hurt the devil or just a corrupted business man. Thats the real beaty of Morrison explaining Hurt. You can read him as either the devil, or someone whos just pure evil or even possessed by the devil. ^^

I can understand the taste differ thing, but hope you are enjoyning the new Battitles! =)