"Setting the Bar" or "What's next for Batman games?"

[stoobytoons]

As the title would suggest, Batman: Arkham Asylum will likely set the bar for Batman games quite high. With a history of games that got it unquestionably wrong and having finally gotten ONE that's done the character justice, what do you all think will be next for Batman in the world of gaming, assuming that the only way to improve upon what Rocksteady has put together is to intensify the experience?

Ready? GO!

[EliteF50]

Hopefully, a Batman Beyond game. I would love to have a free-roaming Gotham City game utilizing Terry's high tech gadgets and Batmobile.

[stoobytoons]

Hopefully, a Batman Beyond game. I would love to have a free-roaming Gotham City game utilizing Terry's high tech gadgets and Batmobile.

Possibly. Though, what are the chances that an Elseworlds title be released this long after the show has gone off the air? And with Terry capable of flight, it'd seem more like Iron Man in Gotham City, I'm afraid. Not to mention you'd be missing out on all of the classic villains, right?

[batfan08]

let's hope not,because iron man vg's suck.I would like a BB game.I've said before that it would be perfect if they made it futuristic in a gritty way a la blade runner,the gliding could work the same as AA,we could have the flying batmobile,and take some cues from rpgs like fable and fallout by including Ace,use Kevin's voiceover work the same way as Oracle will be used in AA,and there you have it(Don't forget Terry's voice aka Will Friedle)

[Solidkill3r]

Hopefully, a Batman Beyond game. I would love to have a free-roaming Gotham City game utilizing Terry's high tech gadgets and Batmobile.

You really think some developer is gonna sit down and model a giant Gotham City?

[Drazar]

- Story telling
- voice acting
- stealth gameplay + combat

Thats what making this game a Batman game, you just need to follow those. I mean the NES/SNES games which were beat em up games weren't bad at all, they just weren't "special" or just mediocore thats all.

[EliteF50]

You really think some developer is gonna sit down and model a giant Gotham City?

You really think some developer is gonna sit down and model a giant New York City? Oh wait...

http://www.digitalgypsy.com/vfxlog/uploadedfiles/gta4boxart-thumb-400x502.jpg

[Solidkill3r]

Oh yeah..........i emmm forgot about that, sorry :whistle:

[Drazar]

I don't see why people want a Free Froam Gotham city unless its in small sections like Infamous city was, because as i disliked Prototype with these problems:
1) Prototype's Manhattan was way too huge, sprinting, wall running and gliding just wasn't fun enough due to it being so ridicilously large, while in Infamous the gliding, using the train was actually quote fun, so if ever Batman gets a free roam game they need to make a good train to use and good gliding ability + the greappling hook

2) I don't think we can get a Batmobile because freefroam cities got moving cars, and how would i feel like Batman if i keep crushing into cars? Sorry but i don't want that at all unless they give a flying Batmobile such as Richard Grayson is using.

I dunno really, maybe i just love Kojima's storytelling so much i'd prefer a MGS4 treatment for a bigger Batman game. :p

[Solidkill3r]

I would!!! it would be awesome just standing on tall building and jumping off and gliding above the little people of Gotham City, can you say EPIC!!

[EliteF50]

I don't see why people want a Free Froam Gotham city unless its in small sections like Infamous city was, because as i disliked Prototype with these problems:
1) Prototype's Manhattan was way too huge, sprinting, wall running and gliding just wasn't fun enough due to it being so ridicilously large, while in Infamous the gliding, using the train was actually quote fun, so if ever Batman gets a free roam game they need to make a good train to use and good gliding ability + the greappling hook

2) I don't think we can get a Batmobile because freefroam cities got moving cars, and how would i feel like Batman if i keep crushing into cars? Sorry but i don't want that at all unless they give a flying Batmobile such as Richard Grayson is using.

I dunno really, maybe i just love Kojima's storytelling so much i'd prefer a MGS4 treatment for a bigger Batman game. :p

That's why it would work better with a BB Free-roaming game.

His suit can fly, he has a flying Batmobile, and you can always visit Bruce and Ace in the Batcave!

Sounds like an awesome game to me. :)

But you're right, the city needs to be InFamous' size. No bigger.

[Drazar]

That's why it would work better with a BB Free-roaming game.

His suit can fly, he has a flying Batmobile, and you can always visit Bruce and Ace in the Batcave!

Ah the thing is the writers can just get this to the modern Batman. In the anime movie "Batman: Gotham Knight" Batman was practically flying in the "Deadshot" story. ^^

Sounds like an awesome game to me. :)

Sure it can, but marketing wise we have to accept we need to keep it simple and normal that it doesn't disconnect the audiance. :/ I mean sure they can get the voice actors easily for the game but yeah Batman is a big brand and the common folk just recognizes Batman as Brucie. ^^

[EliteF50]

Yes, but he can't fly. And everyone knows that. So it wouldn't make sense to give him that ability. Unless they gave us the Batwing.

[Drazar]

I guess the best way to get things work is Infamous alike setting with:
- Gliding
- Grappling Hook
- Train(s)

I mean i know alot of people love the Batmobile including myself, but isn't the point of GTA4 freefroam game to be the criminal and let all cars get destroyed and hit grannies?? I'd hate to have a hard time avoiding cars as the Batman tbh. =D Gah maybe im just too stubborn to accept a free roam batman game!:P

[stoobytoons]

My thoughts are this:

A majority of the most vocal fans of Batman gaming are crying out for a free-roam version in an upcoming game.

Challenges include the issue of exploration and transportation. Now, it's no secret that Batman has a GPS guided Batmobile. Should he need wheels, he could call the 'mobile remotely. After all, how does Batman get around in the comics? He doesn't "just appear" from Wayne Manner (or the Bat Cave) to the scene of a crime or even to the roof of GCPD. He's gotta drive and he's gotta get other places similarly. Smashing and grabbing civilian cars shouldn't be an option or a thought worth a moment's hesitation.

Just as in GTA 4, when Nikko calls Roman for a Taxi, Batman can remotely call the Batmobile. It's a simple fix and since he's got all these wonderful toys to begin with, it isn't difficult to image.

Imagine:

Commissioner Gordon missions - Answered by a glowing bat-signal over Gotham.

Oracle missions - Similar to the hitman missions in GTA 4, but with a mobile contact as the story progresses.

Riddler Missions: Clues hidden around Gotham city pointing to future crimes.

Crime scene investigations: These could help to progress the main story and add new game info to a journal of sorts.

Bruce Wayne under cover missions: Recon at the Ice Berg lounge, for example.

Mob stings: take out mob hideouts and gang turf around Gotham -- similar to how it was done in the Saint's Row games.

You see, it really isn't difficult to come up with a set of objectives and mini-games. The visitation of the Bat-Cave, new gadgets and tons of epic visuals would be icing on the cake for a game with a ton of potential. :cool:

[BatFan]

Free roam? Um....no thanks. I was thinking along the lines of say, a prequel to Arkham Asylum. The game would be level based like Batman: Vengeance or Batman Begins, and it would go from story to story showing how Batman put all those villains in Arkham. The final cutscene would be the confrontation of Joker and how he "gives up". I suppose as far as gameplay goes:

-Fear Introduction (Similar to Batman Begins, but done right)
-Same Freeflow combat(improved somehow?)
-New stealth takedowns
-New gadgets* (Hold on, allow me to explain in a sec, and yes, I understand it IS a prequel idea)
- More extensive detective work

*By new gadgets, I actually mean old ones(relative to Batman). What I mean is for each set of levels based on a villain, Batman would have 1 or 2 extra gadgets specific to that enemy.

That's just my idea. What do you guys think?

Imo, if you want a good story, I think a linear style MSG4 level design is much better than freeroam because of the integration to the story rather than you doing whatever at point so and so.

[Abeja]

Hopefully, DC Universe covers this whole free-roam dream of some people.You wont get to be Batman but you can make it similar. Me personally, I am sick of free-roam single player games.

[stoobytoons]

^Meh. Level-based has been done to death with Batman in mind. The prequel idea sounds interesting, though.

[Abeja]

Hopefully they have a sick combat system to go along in DC Universe. Even gadgets similar to Batman and fighting. I hope you are able to at least BE like Batman, and they should have Gotham. I would like a DC game that is free-roam and PVP more than anything. I havent seen any updates tho on DC universe.

[Reecio]

I believe Metropolis and Gotham are two of the major cities u can visit!?
Also one of the ability tree's u can select is technology....... so i'm sure there is Batman-esk stuff u can make or use

[stoobytoons]

Hopefully, DC Universe covers this whole free-roam dream of some people.You wont get to be Batman but you can make it similar. Me personally, I am sick of free-roam single player games.

Spider-Man 2 covered the "free roam dream" for the generic superhero experience. Superman Returns showed that constructing a fictional city for free roam is a possibility. Having been there, and done that.. 4 times... I'm looking for a genuine Batman experience with total immersion into the deadliest city in comic book history, on top of covering all the ins and outs of being the Caped Crusader. It may be a tall order, but as Rocksteady will prove come August 25th, the desire for that ultimate Batman experience is very present. I feel that Arkham Asylum is just a stepping stone.

[cyberw4ste]

My thoughts are this:

A majority of the most vocal fans of Batman gaming are crying out for a free-roam version in an upcoming game.

Challenges include the issue of exploration and transportation. Now, it's no secret that Batman has a GPS guided Batmobile. Should he need wheels, he could call the 'mobile remotely. After all, how does Batman get around in the comics? He doesn't "just appear" from Wayne Manner (or the Bat Cave) to the scene of a crime or even to the roof of GCPD. He's gotta drive and he's gotta get other places similarly. Smashing and grabbing civilian cars shouldn't be an option or a thought worth a moment's hesitation.

Just as in GTA 4, when Nikko calls Roman for a Taxi, Batman can remotely call the Batmobile. It's a simple fix and since he's got all these wonderful toys to begin with, it isn't difficult to image.

Imagine:

Commissioner Gordon missions - Answered by a glowing bat-signal over Gotham.

Oracle missions - Similar to the hitman missions in GTA 4, but with a mobile contact as the story progresses.

Riddler Missions: Clues hidden around Gotham city pointing to future crimes.

Crime scene investigations: These could help to progress the main story and add new game info to a journal of sorts.

Bruce Wayne under cover missions: Recon at the Ice Berg lounge, for example.

Mob stings: take out mob hideouts and gang turf around Gotham -- similar to how it was done in the Saint's Row games.



I pray to the gods of gaming that you are the only person who thinks this is a good idea. The gaming community needs "Grand Theft Batmobile" about as much as it needs Superman 64 2. Remember Spiderman 2: The Game? Yeah... no. :mad2:

I respect your opinion dispite my harsh words but I don't think we need more of the same here. I'd hope in any sequel Rocksteady may or may not develop they'd continue to deliver an experience that lets you feel as though you're The Batman, not some dude in tights running around a city on missions for this dude or that.

Personally, in answer to the thread question, imo: The tried and true "More of the same, but better, and just different enough to keep it interesting." It sells. I buy it. Just look at Halo or GoW... :hmm:

[stoobytoons]

I pray to the gods of gaming that you are the only person who thinks this is a good idea. The gaming community needs "Grand Theft Batmobile" about as much as it needs Superman 64 2. Remember Spiderman 2: The Game? Yeah... no. :mad2:

I respect your opinion dispite my harsh words but I don't think we need more of the same here. I'd hope in any sequel Rocksteady may or may not develop they'd continue to deliver an experience that lets you feel as though you're The Batman, not some dude in tights running around a city on missions for this dude or that.

Personally, in answer to the thread question, imo: The tried and true "More of the same, but better, and just different enough to keep it interesting." It sells. I buy it. Just look at Halo or GoW... :hmm:

You don't want "more of the same" but you want "more of the same but different?"

Firstly, that doesn't make sense. Secondly, Batman: Arkham Asylum is a free roam title on an island. So.... how do you feel about that? You want ANOTHER game with Batman trapped on Arkham Island?

Explain to me the mentality of folks who assume that a new, yet slightly similar idea is suddenly "bad."
True, "some dude running around in tights" doesn't sound like a good idea. But clearly I didn't suggest something as ludicrous, or as elementary, as that. How would Batman being in the middle of Gotham City be such a drastically terrible difference from this upcoming game?

What is a "Grand Theft Batmobile" game in your mind?

I do remember Spider-Man 2: The Game. It rocked. Clearly, I'm not the only one to have felt that way. But you can always go back to Batman Returns for the SNES if you like. :lol:
I'm not suggesting Batman play in the same way, but use Spider-Man 2 as an example of how the sandbox hero game has worked.

Open world games need to have missions to propel the story, and if you've ever read a Batman comic book, or seen a Batman film or cartoon, he works cases for Commissioner Gordon, and investigates various crimes. To be able to do that isn't anything but true to the character.

SO....
How about a solid explanation rather than a simple rejection?

[cyberw4ste]

Well, on your first question, I said more of the same, but just different enough to keep it interesting. Not more of the same but different. The difference is subtle but there. No. It does not literally mean more being stuck on Arkham Island again. What it meant was similar gameplay ideas, improved upon gameplay, new setting, new gadgets, new story, new ideas, etc. etc.

Open world Batman is not a new idea.

Open world games are good when done right. But they're also tedious. Not to mention ridiculous when done wrong. *cough*Spiderman 2*cough* And for Batman to jump from action adventure free roam level progression ala Metroid to full blown sandbox Gotham... I don't see it. Different sections of Gotham open during different times? Sure. But full blown mission-based-story-prgression in a full free roam city would be not so keen.



I do remember Spider-Man 2: The Game. It rocked. Clearly, I'm not the only one to have felt that way. But you can always go back to Batman Returns for the SNES if you like. :lol:



You know what, this statement alone answers my question as to why you would like this idea. So lets just put away our hard hats, call it a day and chalk it up to "Different strokes..." shall we?

:wave:

[CaptainMcMulla]

As long as this game has the following 3 things then im happy & will be wanting a sequel.
1) Story. 2) Gameplay. 3) Graphics.

For the next one all batman fans video game dreams is an open world, free roaming, gotham city game. Driving the batmobile, Gliding down from skyscrapers etc.

[stoobytoons]

Well, on your first question, I said more of the same, but just different enough to keep it interesting. Not more of the same but different.

Just different enough to be fooled into shelling out more money for a hyped up expansion pack? No thanks.

The difference is subtle but there. No. It does not literally mean more being stuck on Arkham Island again. What it meant was similar gameplay ideas, improved upon gameplay, new setting, new gadgets, new story, new ideas, etc. etc.

Granted, a sequel would bring about opportunity for ramped up game play and improvements in game ideas. How would a larger setting hinder any of this?

Open world Batman is not a new idea.

Besides the sour Batman & Robin based on one of the worst films in cinematic history, when have we seen an open world Batman?

Open world games are good when done right.

Again, why assume a poorly done, open-world Batman?

But they're also tedious.

I suppose that's why developers still include cheats. What you call "tedious" I call total immersion.

Not to mention ridiculous when done wrong. *cough*Spiderman 2*cough* And for Batman to jump from action adventure free roam level progression ala Metroid to full blown sandbox Gotham... I don't see it.

I'm not going to resort to calling you a moron simply because you have a contrary opinion. However, Spider-Man 2: The Game was a step in the right direction for superhero games. "More of the same" would have been what we got with Spider-Man (1): The Game, Batman: Vengence, Batman: Dark Tomorrow, Batman: Rise of Sin Tsu, Batman Begins... etc., etc...
"Doing it wrong" wasn't part of or a summation of my idea for this game. Again, a touch of optimism might be an order here.:scratch:


Different sections of Gotham open during different times? Sure. But full blown mission-based-story-prgression in a full free roam city would be not so keen.

I don't see how closing off sections of Gotham would be better than taking Batman out on patrol through the entire city from the get-go. I don't believe that modern gamers are interested in less freedom. This one isn't.



You know what, this statement alone answers my question as to why you would like this idea. So lets just put away our hard hats, call it a day and chalk it up to "Different strokes..." shall we?

:wave:

I'm not sure that counts as a "solid suggestion" but thanks for playing.

[Drazar]

For those supporting free roam can you try and explain how would you personally try and pull off:
- Fast and fun traveling across the city
- How will you use the batmobile, obviously as a hero you cant hit the normal citizens of gotham because thats not Batman at all

[Mani-Man]

I think a free roam batman game would be very hard to make because he cant jump high like hulk he cant climb walls like spiderman or fly like superman,but it could work if they would use it like in asassins creed.There it was easy to climb from the ground to the top of a building and with the grapple gun and cape you could jump from building to building pretty fast.But i dont think it would work really good,batman works in different areas but not in an open world,its the same with superman games you cant make a superman game in a building or somewhere you need to use a big world where you can fly,run ect.But a asassins creed like gameplay could work for batman.

[Amputechture]

You gotta' be crazy to think that it would turn out right at least in the near future. All Sandbox games suffer the same problems no matter how good they are. You can have an awesome game, good story but after that sequence, you are back to helping generic NPC's and beating the same generic thugs again and again.

The whole open world format in games is pretty much contradictory to what Batman is. Not saying it couldn't be done again, just stating it wouldn't turn out right just yet.

[Ryanodamonkey]

What about villains who would you want?

Personally I would like Ra's Al Ghul as you could disguise free roam by going to various mountain strongholds and eventually the Flying Fortress itself.

[Zombie-Gamer]

All I want fir the next is the same dark tone, more villains, a huge area and a good story.

[DarkKnightDanny]

For those supporting free roam can you try and explain how would you personally try and pull off:
- Fast and fun traveling across the city
- How will you use the batmobile, obviously as a hero you cant hit the normal citizens of gotham because thats not Batman at all

well just look at most batman comic images where he's grappling along rooftop by rooftop .

wouldnt need to be gta size gotham, more like prototype size gotham, add balconys, tv ariels and other grapple points to the buildings and you would have a very decent batman travel experience.
yea the batmobile would cause a problem. so ive thought of a plan for this.

you collect batmobile for a mission. you go and complete mission travel on foot or hook to a different place.
to get the batmobile again you patch through to oracle to send you out a batmobile via remote control driving, it arrives. thinking along the lines of calling up roman for a cab in gta 4,something like that.

with a smige of thought a gotham free roam could be amazing in my eyes.

[cyberw4ste]

Pros of a free roam game:
1. Freedom to do what you want, where and when you want.
2. Exploration.
3. Pace of the game is determined by the player.

Cons:
1. The story fails to be immersive to the degree of games who make you follow a more linear path.
2. Often the amount of detail put into the buildings and streets sacrifices quality in other areas. Such as building interiors, story, character models.
3. The freedom to do anything makes what you can't do stand out more. Why can't I go into every building? From a tech stand point this has an obvious answer. But in the spirit of a sandbox do-anything-I-please game, anything you can't do sticks out like a sore thumb.
4. Exploration. There's often so much to do in these games it's overwhelming, and tedious. Why is it I have to kill 150 pigeons again? It becomes less of a game and more of a "Get X amount of this." in some cases. Granted it's not required, but to enjoy every aspect of the game and get everything as I am want to do, I end up wanting to stick a screwdriver thru my eye socket to end the pain of this so-called sandbox.
5. I often end up quitting these games even before I beat them out of sheer frustration of how much I have to do in them, and it ends up tarnishing the experience as a whole.

I've layed out why I personally don't like them. Now why don't you (I'm talking to you, stoobytoons) tell me why and how this could be a good idea instead of bashing me on all points I try to make? Prove me wrong bud. I don't nessessarily think a Batman free roam gotham game would be bad if done right. I just don't think it can and will be done right.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on Spiderman 2. Though, I will try to come to some common ground here and say that Ultimate Spiderman was terrific, if not short. That game is a good example of quality free roaming.

[BatmanBruceWayne]

I know we mentioned this before on the Robin or Not to Robin thread, but A No Man's Land type Gotham would solve some of the problems of free roaming. The city is destroyed and because of this there probably won't be much people around to hit if you're driving an all terrain Batmobile. There would be sections of Gotham like East Gotham, West Gotham, etc.

Different vehicles would help get you to different sections such as the Batwing to get over a massive debree area to the other side. Batboat to get to water areas. Mini-batsites throughout the different sections. Multiplayer with other Bat-family members. The availability of co-op free flow combat, co-op Predator Gameplay, etc. Each bat-member has their own strengths and weaknesses in gameplay. Batman would be the all around skilled character.

Story could be followed by either A.) One main storyline that requires you to go to different sections (much like Arkham Asylum)
B.) More than 1 storyline that connects at the end. For example: You go to respond to the Commissioner and it gives you a storyline to follow and in the middle of following that mission you find a clue from the Riddler opening another storyline then a mission from Oracle opening another storyline. This way you can follow whichever storyline whenever you want, but they will interconnect. An example of this would be you need to stop the Riddler's second crime (which will only occur when you choose to follow the Riddler's storyline) and you succeed and find another clue which points to Poison Ivy. Then you decide to stop the riddler's storyline and go onto Poison Ivy's storyline. The Riddler's storyline would continue when you decide to resume it. It would be similar to how Batman has different cases and he decides to put one off to follow another one.

If it is using the No Man's Land style game then some villains can have sections of Gotham to themselves. Meaning gangster criminals from Batman's Rogues gallery can also have an appearance in the game. While villains like Mr. Freeze can have a frozen section of Gotham while Joker and Harley have a carnival like section.

There's a lot of potential to do things right as well as to do things wrong. It's all about creativity and the team's willingness to do justice to Batman's friends and foes.

[stoobytoons]

cyberw4ste - I'll bite.

Pros of a free roam game:
1. Freedom to do what you want, where and when you want.
2. Exploration.
3. Pace of the game is determined by the player.

1. Freedom within the confines of the rules of Batman. You'll see, AA will play by those rules.
2. Absolutely; exploration in any modern or future game is an attractive bullet point.
3. Definitely; and again AA follows this.

I'll address each of your cons individually as well.

Cons:
1. The story fails to be immersive to the degree of games who make you follow a more linear path.

In what sense? Assume EVERYTHING you can do in AA you can do in a full-on Gotham City map. Assume the inclusion of forensic tracking, epic story, and being completely character driven. GTA 4 proved a heavily character driven story based in a large open world is very possible.

2. Often the amount of detail put into the buildings and streets sacrifices quality in other areas. Such as building interiors, story, character models.

True, this has happened in games such as Game Cube and PS2's Spider-Man 2, and the rushed Spider-Man 3 for current gen consoles. But again, the possibility of highly detailed large cities has been proven as an obvious possibility. And not only was it visually intensive, but geometrically speaking Assassin's Creed proved that you can create a world that your avatar can interact with without dropping frame rates or losing visual detail elsewhere. But again, you have to try to be optimistic here and not assume that just because it's been bad before, I'm suggesting it will be half-baked again or that greatness isn't a possibility.

3. The freedom to do anything makes what you can't do stand out more. Why can't I go into every building? From a tech stand point this has an obvious answer. But in the spirit of a sandbox do-anything-I-please game, anything you can't do sticks out like a sore thumb.

You're nitpicking. Why would Batman need to go to a pizza parlor? Why would he need to drop into a day care? C'mon. Be serious. Yeah, technical answer is part of it, but again within the context of the Batman character, there would be a limited number of locations that would be open to interaction because it makes the most sense to the story being told. But hey, if Joker is robbing a pizza parlor or day care, sure... open it up.
Spider-Man 2 had gang hideouts in restaurants, etc.
By the way, when was the last time you could open every door in every structure of a linear game?


4. Exploration. There's often so much to do in these games it's overwhelming, and tedious. Why is it I have to kill 150 pigeons again? It becomes less of a game and more of a "Get X amount of this." in some cases. Granted it's not required, but to enjoy every aspect of the game and get everything as I am want to do, I end up wanting to stick a screwdriver thru my eye socket to end the pain of this so-called sandbox.

You're probably not going to like Arkham Asylum -- you have to collect Riddler's riddles.
I believe there's a sophisticated way to go about these side quests that build toward a greater picture. Perhaps Batman has to track down clues to build a case toward a specific criminal. That's just me spit-balling, but it's possible to appeal to a more mature audience. I agree with you though. Superman flying around Metropolis to find hidden cats was rather lame; and don't get me started on the "balloon kid" from Spider-Man 2.


5. I often end up quitting these games even before I beat them out of sheer frustration of how much I have to do in them, and it ends up tarnishing the experience as a whole.

Games are meant to present a challenge, dude. Having it all figured out before you start defeats the purpose of even buying a game. How is this any worse than a game like Metroid, Zelda, or Super Mario World?


I guess since we're getting personal...

I've layed out why I personally don't like them. Now why don't you (I'm talking to you, stoobytoons) tell me why and how this could be a good idea instead of bashing me on all points I try to make? Prove me wrong bud. I don't nessessarily think a Batman free roam gotham game would be bad if done right. I just don't think it can and will be done right.

I've already outlined why it's a good idea and you're free go back to page 1 for review. What I haven't done is "bash" you on your points. I'm merely pointing out that they don't hold water. I've also given you the opportunity to provide a solid suggestion to how a game could be better and encouraged you to shed some fresh light on the future of sandbox gaming. If you don't have a suggestion just yet, think about it! This isn't a pressing conversation that requires an immediate answer. Just come back to us when you've got a plan. In the meantime, nay-saying only fuels further frustration and stops the dialogue. Does that make sense? :hmm:

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on Spiderman 2. Though, I will try to come to some common ground here and say that Ultimate Spiderman was terrific, if not short. That game is a good example of quality free roaming.

What do you disagree with? That it was a step in the right direction? Can you imagine how boring it would be to have Spider-Man stuck in a building? How lame would it be to have Superman flying around an office building interior? Fans deserve the chance to explore Gotham City in a way that they never have done before, and fresh, exciting new game play should be a part of it.

[stoobytoons]

I know we mentioned this before on the Robin or Not to Robin thread, but A No Man's Land type Gotham would solve some of the problems of free roaming. The city is destroyed and because of this there probably won't be much people around to hit if you're driving an all terrain Batmobile. There would be sections of Gotham like East Gotham, West Gotham, etc.

Different vehicles would help get you to different sections such as the Batwing to get over a massive debree area to the other side. Batboat to get to water areas. Mini-batsites throughout the different sections. Multiplayer with other Bat-family members. The availability of co-op free flow combat, co-op Predator Gameplay, etc. Each bat-member has their own strengths and weaknesses in gameplay. Batman would be the all around skilled character.

Story could be followed by either A.) One main storyline that requires you to go to different sections (much like Arkham Asylum)
B.) More than 1 storyline that connects at the end. For example: You go to respond to the Commissioner and it gives you a storyline to follow and in the middle of following that mission you find a clue from the Riddler opening another storyline then a mission from Oracle opening another storyline. This way you can follow whichever storyline whenever you want, but they will interconnect. An example of this would be you need to stop the Riddler's second crime (which will only occur when you choose to follow the Riddler's storyline) and you succeed and find another clue which points to Poison Ivy. Then you decide to stop the riddler's storyline and go onto Poison Ivy's storyline. The Riddler's storyline would continue when you decide to resume it. It would be similar to how Batman has different cases and he decides to put one off to follow another one.

If it is using the No Man's Land style game then some villains can have sections of Gotham to themselves. Meaning gangster criminals from Batman's Rogues gallery can also have an appearance in the game. While villains like Mr. Freeze can have a frozen section of Gotham while Joker and Harley have a carnival like section.

There's a lot of potential to do things right as well as to do things wrong. It's all about creativity and the team's willingness to do justice to Batman's friends and foes.

I think you're on the right track here.

The civilian issue can be handled either as a collateral damage issue (Batman builds negative points and eventual the law catches up with him) or civilians can just react and move out of the road before the Batmobile hits them.

It's worth it to explore what it's like as Batman to have to combat these actual issues within the game without hindering playability.

[SirRoscoe]

I believe there's many of us that want to see a sandbox-style Batman game. But the biggest issue of all, since creating such game will be a HUGE undertaking, is will we have a team of developers dedicated to make such a game with high-quality. There is so much ground to cover, so many things to get right if the very essence of Batman is going to transfer to the open world. And as talented as Rocksteady is (it shows in this game) I believe that's gonna be way out of their league.

However, as BatmanBruceWayne has stated, if we're going to go the sandbox route, then the No Man's Land arc is a great place to start. As he suggested, several issues can be solved, especially as far as transportation, how he interacts with the citizens (especially with martial law declared), even rival gangs (Two-Face vs Penguin vs Black Mask, they have a chance to shine without the confides of an asylum). It's a lot to explore, and if they indeed go the route of Grand Theft Batman, then this is the way to go.

[cyberw4ste]

The point is not "Why would Batman go into a pizza parlor." but the fact that I can if I want. Hmm... come to think of it, I think Spiderman could go into a pizza parlor in Spiderman 2... >.>

Anyways, jokes aside. You're right. I do wonder if I'm going to be gonzo for the idea of collecting all those riddles. I might have fun with it at first, but I wonder just how long it will be fun. I'm guessing somewhere along the 75 mark or so, I'm going to start getting irritated. Then again, maybe not. Who's to say? It might not be as bad as all that, considering the island isn't nearly as huge as a full on city would be, so less ground to cover.

But I disagree about Spiderman 2 for a few reasons. It did in some way "pave the way" for other games sure but man did that game suck. Stealth missions as Peter? The fight system was nothing near as good as it was in the previous title... Horribly put together story. I don't know, man. I did not think that game was good for much of anything beyond a coaster. Then again I did beat it, so something kept me playing it. But I can't remember what it was. Whatever.

No Man's Land is a great idea. I could easily see it. That also happens to be one of my favorite Batman stories, so again I would be thrilled to play a game based on that. But could they do it well and would they do it? I still wonder.

[stoobytoons]

I believe there's many of us that want to see a sandbox-style Batman game. But the biggest issue of all, since creating such game will be a HUGE undertaking, is will we have a team of developers dedicated to make such a game with high-quality. There is so much ground to cover, so many things to get right if the very essence of Batman is going to transfer to the open world. And as talented as Rocksteady is (it shows in this game) I believe that's gonna be way out of their league.

However, as BatmanBruceWayne has stated, if we're going to go the sandbox route, then the No Man's Land arc is a great place to start. As he suggested, several issues can be solved, especially as far as transportation, how he interacts with the citizens (especially with martial law declared), even rival gangs (Two-Face vs Penguin vs Black Mask, they have a chance to shine without the confides of an asylum). It's a lot to explore, and if they indeed go the route of Grand Theft Batman, then this is the way to go.

I think it's safe to say that with all of the planning, money, and talent that goes into ANY game, the process is quite an undertaking. I have to admit your line about this idea being " out Rocksteady's league" made me cringe. If anything, Batman: Arkham Asylum should be a great indication of a developer who has taken a very big idea and carried it out in spectacular fashion. They're getting it right this time, I'm confident they could pull off the city of Gotham.

The point is not "Why would Batman go into a pizza parlor." but the fact that I can if I want. Hmm... come to think of it, I think Spiderman could go into a pizza parlor in Spiderman 2... >.>

Anyways, jokes aside. You're right. I do wonder if I'm going to be gonzo for the idea of collecting all those riddles. I might have fun with it at first, but I wonder just how long it will be fun. I'm guessing somewhere along the 75 mark or so, I'm going to start getting irritated. Then again, maybe not. Who's to say? It might not be as bad as all that, considering the island isn't nearly as huge as a full on city would be, so less ground to cover.

But I disagree about Spiderman 2 for a few reasons. It did in some way "pave the way" for other games sure but man did that game suck. Stealth missions as Peter? The fight system was nothing near as good as it was in the previous title... Horribly put together story. I don't know, man. I did not think that game was good for much of anything beyond a coaster. Then again I did beat it, so something kept me playing it. But I can't remember what it was. Whatever.

No Man's Land is a great idea. I could easily see it. That also happens to be one of my favorite Batman stories, so again I would be thrilled to play a game based on that. But could they do it well and would they do it? I still wonder.

Mmk. I think it's safe to get past the Spider-Man 2 references, as I think it's misleading the point. The idea is to take all the great parts of Batman: Arkham Asylum and open it up to the larger world of Gotham City in a way that makes the most sense.

I believe that if as much care and creativity is applied to a sandbox Gotham as was given to Arkham Asylum, we would have the greatest Batman game ever... again. :D

[lickitup1]

First, let me say this! To Eidos, Rockstar and any other company that might have an opportunity to make a Batman game. DO NOT MAKE BATMAN BEYOND! I guarantee it will ruin the game!!! I'm not trying to knock anyone's idea so don't get upset. I'm just saying, if they did that, allot of people would be very angry and I'm willing to bet my life that it wouldn't sell half as many copies that AA has already! Not to mention that I would be so ****** of that I waited for the next one to come out only for it to be batman beyond. I wouldn't buy or play that. Then I'd have to wait for the next one to see if they made a good one again, yet! I think they should either stick to the style their using OR try to take into account how the new Batman movies have really had an effect on the rebirth of Batman popularity! Either way, I really think they should make it a little darker, more ways to grab enimies and tie'em up and leave them in a corner shacking scared so their buddies start freaking out. The ability to tie thugs up to gargoyles as well as string them up! Either way, I'm confident it will live upto the expectations. They took a chance and ended up making one of the best games ever. As long as they don't do like Gears of war 2 and add so really corny story line or dialog then they should be fine.

[Mayday six]

I think a free roam batman game would be very hard to make because he cant jump high like hulk he cant climb walls like spiderman or fly like superman,but it could work if they would use it like in asassins creed.There it was easy to climb from the ground to the top of a building and with the grapple gun and cape you could jump from building to building pretty fast.But i dont think it would work really good,batman works in different areas but not in an open world,its the same with superman games you cant make a superman game in a building or somewhere you need to use a big world where you can fly,run ect.But a asassins creed like gameplay could work for batman.

Yeah, this is why it should have the same free roam effect as Arkham, it still his is free roam, the missions connect seamlessly so you can choose to complete and finish them whenever. And it's not huge, so it looks good and can be intricate. A little bigger and more open would be better, and if it is Gotham it should be Dark stormy rainy nights leaping across buildings. This way there is no need for any of the vehicles either. I believe they make better suprise cameos. The reason everyone in here shouts i want the batmobile! the batwing! is because they've never properly been implented into a game before. except for one i remember on ps2 which was abysmal. The reason you want them so bad is cause they make suprise cameos like they did in this one. so let's keep them that way.

[Old_BenKenobi]

I don't see why people want a Free Froam Gotham city unless its in small sections like Infamous city was, because as i disliked Prototype with these problems:
1) Prototype's Manhattan was way too huge, sprinting, wall running and gliding just wasn't fun enough due to it being so ridicilously large, while in Infamous the gliding, using the train was actually quote fun, so if ever Batman gets a free roam game they need to make a good train to use and good gliding ability + the greappling hook

2) I don't think we can get a Batmobile because freefroam cities got moving cars, and how would i feel like Batman if i keep crushing into cars? Sorry but i don't want that at all unless they give a flying Batmobile such as Richard Grayson is using.

I dunno really, maybe i just love Kojima's storytelling so much i'd prefer a MGS4 treatment for a bigger Batman game. :p

Not many cars at night, and it could be rigged so any traffic that is on the road pulls over when the Batmobile passes, like any other emergency vehicle.

[Mayday six]

First, let me say this! To Eidos, Rockstar and any other company that might have an opportunity to make a Batman game. DO NOT MAKE BATMAN BEYOND! I guarantee it will ruin the game!!! I'm not trying to knock anyone's idea so don't get upset. I'm just saying, if they did that, allot of people would be very angry and I'm willing to bet my life that it wouldn't sell half as many copies that AA has already! Not to mention that I would be so ****** of that I waited for the next one to come out only for it to be batman beyond. I wouldn't buy or play that. Then I'd have to wait for the next one to see if they made a good one again, yet! I think they should either stick to the style their using OR try to take into account how the new Batman movies have really had an effect on the rebirth of Batman popularity! Either way, I really think they should make it a little darker, more ways to grab enimies and tie'em up and leave them in a corner shacking scared so their buddies start freaking out. The ability to tie thugs up to gargoyles as well as string them up! Either way, I'm confident it will live upto the expectations. They took a chance and ended up making one of the best games ever. As long as they don't do like Gears of war 2 and add so really corny story line or dialog then they should be fine.

Watch what you say about gears of war around me:) http://i29.tinypic.com/1zg5oc4.jpg]

[SolidSnake_123]

The bar has been set... and it's going to be SO hard to top it... but it can, remember when no one thought Kojima could top Metal Gear 1 ('98) then looks what happened? Metal Gear Solid 3 came out. It's always possible.

[stoobytoons]

Yeah, this is why it should have the same free roam effect as Arkham, it still his is free roam, the missions connect seamlessly so you can choose to complete and finish them whenever. And it's not huge, so it looks good and can be intricate. A little bigger and more open would be better, and if it is Gotham it should be Dark stormy rainy nights leaping across buildings. This way there is no need for any of the vehicles either. I believe they make better suprise cameos. The reason everyone in here shouts i want the batmobile! the batwing! is because they've never properly been implented into a game before. except for one i remember on ps2 which was abysmal. The reason you want them so bad is cause they make suprise cameos like they did in this one. so let's keep them that way.

I'm a bit confused about your position on this topic. Are you saying "no" to vehicles and "yes" to a smaller map and transportation on foot and... through the grapple alone?

Please don't attempt to speak for me in regard to the inclusion of the Batman's vehicles. My reason for a free-roam Batman experience is for the exact reason why the sandbox game style exists: virtual reality.

Do you want to know my absolute favorite part of Arkham Asylum? Not the fight with Bane. Not the detective mode. Not even the free-flow combat system. My favorite part was for the first time, near the end of the game, where I finally got to look "through the mask." I realize this is the difference between first-person and third-person, but the feeling that I've ALWAYS wanted to experience is becoming Batman. He IS the most "realistic" modern day hero. Yet, the fans only realize small avenues of his life. I believe that ANY super hero game should let the player experience the life of the hero and the life without the costume.
In the case of Batman, I want to experience seeing the Bat-signal and answering it at my disclosure. I want to regroup WHEN I DECIDE at the Batcave. I want the ability to change out of the pointy ears and into a bums disguise and hit the street undercover to keep my finger on the pulse of the underground. This may sound like shooting for the moon, but I believe B:AA only scratched the surface of what it means to truly be Batman, and I think digging deeper and allowing for more freedom in storytelling would most certainly solidify Batman's supremacy in the comic book game genre for years to come. This is the chance to do something very dramatic, operatic, and iconic, and I think Rocksteady should definitely aim high from here.

[Old_BenKenobi]

One thing to keep in mind is IF a theoretical "sequel" is made, would it be set on current gen consoles? I wouldn't be surprised if there was an announcement of next-gen consoles in the next two years.

[stoobytoons]

One thing to keep in mind is IF a theoretical "sequel" is made, would it be set on current gen consoles? I wouldn't be surprised if there was an announcement of next-gen consoles in the next two years.

You might be right, OBK. Honestly, that'd be fine. The more intense the console, the fewer limitations we're looking at. Two years? Debatable. But time will tell..

[Kaddis]

I personally don't care what kind of style the sequel will take, sandbox or linear, batmobile or just grapple, as long as the storyline is there. If the storyline is as immersive as AA, that'll make me want to play it. And as long as the tasks fit well into the storyline, I'm all for it. That's why I think AA is great because getting past guards at certain sections actually meant something, like saving a doctor's life or Joker got smart and installed bombs on the gargoyles, instead of "god I have to do this again in order to move ahead in the story" type reaction.

[Sir Legendhead]

Just a few thoughts I had while reading this...

- I've been playing a lot of Prototype lately and I can see how you could reskin Alex as Batman. Simply replace his dash and jumping-up-walls animations with a grapple gun yanking him forward (or up) and put a cape on him when he glides. The only unrealistic travel move would be his standing vertical jump. Tone that down to something an Olympic level gymnast could do and you've got Batman.

- The entire game would have to happen at night. You wouldn't be able to do a day-to-night-and-back transition like in GTA IV because it wouldn't feel right to play as Batman in the daytime. Also, you could avoid the collateral damage issue concerning the Batmobile due to the absence of other vehicles on the road at three in the morning.

- Quote of my favorite post in this thread:

My thoughts are this:

A majority of the most vocal fans of Batman gaming are crying out for a free-roam version in an upcoming game.

Challenges include the issue of exploration and transportation. Now, it's no secret that Batman has a GPS guided Batmobile. Should he need wheels, he could call the 'mobile remotely. After all, how does Batman get around in the comics? He doesn't "just appear" from Wayne Manner (or the Bat Cave) to the scene of a crime or even to the roof of GCPD. He's gotta drive and he's gotta get other places similarly. Smashing and grabbing civilian cars shouldn't be an option or a thought worth a moment's hesitation.

Just as in GTA 4, when Nikko calls Roman for a Taxi, Batman can remotely call the Batmobile. It's a simple fix and since he's got all these wonderful toys to begin with, it isn't difficult to image.

Imagine:

Commissioner Gordon missions - Answered by a glowing bat-signal over Gotham.

Oracle missions - Similar to the hitman missions in GTA 4, but with a mobile contact as the story progresses.

Riddler Missions: Clues hidden around Gotham city pointing to future crimes.

Crime scene investigations: These could help to progress the main story and add new game info to a journal of sorts.

Bruce Wayne under cover missions: Recon at the Ice Berg lounge, for example.

Mob stings: take out mob hideouts and gang turf around Gotham -- similar to how it was done in the Saint's Row games.

You see, it really isn't difficult to come up with a set of objectives and mini-games. The visitation of the Bat-Cave, new gadgets and tons of epic visuals would be icing on the cake for a game with a ton of potential. :cool:

That could work for me, but I'm still not sure if I'd rather see another game just like AA or an attempt at free roaming. Part of me wants them to stick with what works because this game turned out so well...but then again, every time I play a sandbox title I wish that I could play it as Batman.

I made Joker and Catwoman characters on Saints Row 2, which is as close as I've gotten to a open world Gotham. Which brings me to another line of thought...what if they did a free roam Batman game where you play as the villains? That could work really well for the "live vicariously as a criminal" mentality that most open world games seem to have.

[stoobytoons]

I made Joker and Catwoman characters on Saints Row 2, which is as close as I've gotten to a open world Gotham. Which brings me to another line of thought...what if they did a free roam Batman game where you play as the villains? That could work really well for the "live vicariously as a criminal" mentality that most open world games seem to have.

I too had that thought a few months back. I suppose of Rockstar or Volition happened to nab the Batman license, it would probably be right up their ally! :)

[Mayday six]

[QUOTE=stoobytoons;1038692]Just different enough to be fooled into shelling out more money for a hyped up expansion pack? No thanks.


surely a new game is a hyped up expansion pack? duh. You are buying the same character with a new story and various new add-ons. But in the old days there was no such thing as DLC or downloading expansion packs, so they are called sequels. surely you liked this game, so you are changing it why? i really am just struggling to understand your logic.

[Brako]

All it will set the bar for, is that rocksteady has a great base to work from.

You can be certain that most other comic book hero games will just be as dull as they usually are. There is big money in these crappy movie tie-ins, and that won't ever change.

NOTE TO ROCKSTEADY: My friend is deaf and has been having trouble with the combat rooms in extreme.

He can counter no problem as you get that blue flashing light, but is there anyway you can add something that shows an alert flash when someone is getting a gun? He gets to round 4 and then he kept saying his energy was just being drained. We then realised it was because he was getting shot and he didn't know anyone even had a gun.

[Mayday six]

All it will set the bar for, is that rocksteady has a great base to work from.

You can be certain that most other comic book hero games will just be as dull as they usually are. There is big money in these crappy movie tie-ins, and that won't ever change.

NOTE TO ROCKSTEADY: My friend is deaf and has been having trouble with the combat rooms in extreme.

He can counter no problem as you get that blue flashing light, but is there anyway you can add something that shows an alert flash when someone is getting a gun? He gets to round 4 and then he kept saying his energy was just being drained. We then realised it was because he was getting shot and he didn't know anyone even had a gun.

Brako, that is a very very smart thing to tell Rocksteady, but i think there couldn't be a worse place to put it. I would tell Keir, and let him take it to eidos, something like that, or call up Rocksteady or Eidos, there should be numbers in the instruction manual. But the chances of a dev or a member or rocksteady coming across this one page and seeing your post is miniscule.

[Drazar]

Brako, that is a very very smart thing to tell Rocksteady, but i think there couldn't be a worse place to put it. I would tell Keir, and let him take it to eidos, something like that, or call up Rocksteady or Eidos, there should be numbers in the instruction manual. But the chances of a dev or a member or rocksteady coming across this one page and seeing your post is miniscule.

I'll forward this, this is extremely great suggestion that needs to be heard.

[Mayday six]

I'll forward this, this is extremely great suggestion that needs to be heard.

thank you! i thought the exact same thing. Gaming for the deaf and the blind needs to be implicated, it's a really great thing.

[Drazar]

thank you! i thought the exact same thing. Gaming for the deaf and the blind needs to be implicated, it's a really great thing.

Indeed, sure some might feel the change would make the challange maps easier, but its more fair then just telling deaf people to play on detective mode 24/7 on challange maps. :(

[Mayday six]

Indeed, sure some might feel the change would make the challange maps easier, but its more fair then just telling deaf people to play on detective mode 24/7 on challange maps. :(

oh wow, i never thought of vision mode 24/7 as it isolates the guards, But you are right, that is unfair. I suppose if they did put in a way, it could become some form of toggle, like subtitles, i know it's different but if a really great, and critically well-received game does it, then in the future it could become standard like the subtitles feature. A step in the right direction at least.

[Drazar]

Indeed.

Anyhow if you ask me, how to top this game? FURTHER into the story telling, a great story is one of the highest selling points of this game, and we really need more cinematic sequances of Batman kicking ass and the beatiful Gotham city and whatnot, maybe even abit of "Zack Snyder" slow-mo camera action on some action cinematics who knows?

Gameplay wise... Hmm they should ´keep the grapple, batarangs and explosive gel but replace everything else, sure sonic batarang, the line thingy and whatnot are great, but not THAT needed in the sequal, smoke pellets are a big thing the fans want and something i'd say would be great for those who aint into sneaking, what better way to attract thugs then to take down 1, silently wait for the thug group to come, throw some smoke pellets and go beat em up. =P

They also need to put up another 48 character bio, preferrebly with everything new except Batman, Gordon, Bruce Wayne, Oracle and then include stuff like Tim Drake, Richard Grayson, Jason Todd and whatnot whatnot. =P

Also with Gotham city being all huge with skyscrapers and whatnot, its an excepent opportunity for boss fights such as Firefly and/or Man-Bat. :)

[miloandtheminers]

i reckon it should be about the same size as AA but in gotham city, and just have some massive building's to workthrough like the ones in AA, for instance museums, sewers, jewelers and banks. could even have the penguin break into wayne enterprises and hold the heads of the company hostage. but instead of just goin through the level and defeating him, you have to do detective work n stuff to locate him. i reckon even a build your own batsuit - when in batcave you have different armors and gadgets and cowels n capes n stuff, to solve the transportation issues allow batman to be lifted in the wind as he glides for distance and he should also be able to fall like a dive or summet then opens his cape. but i think the next game should be penguin and a lot of a sewer based game. think it needs to be a bit darker visually i found that i turn the darness down a lot when playing AA it makes for such a better game!!!! o and you could have the batmobile, cos its night based not a lot of people will be driving!!!!

[Mayday six]

Hahaha, i know what you mean on the story telling, if i am honest though i was hoping for not so much a deeper storyline, but a mystery you don't know what's really going on untill the last scene where a plot twist hits you clean in the face. And a huge showdown ensues.

I really could of used some cut scene action, I never saw a cut scene where it blew my mind, as you see in some games. Cut scenes are used not only to advance plot but also more dynamic action and camera sequences can happen and i would of liked to seen that more.

Agree totally on the bio's Batman still has a positively huge roster of characters to be explained, especially ones closest to him, personally i might just be the biggest Richard Grayson fan on the board, i truly hope he is in the game, being such a pivotal character in Batmans life, and in my opinion Batman is great, he's the dark knight, but he becomes complete with a Robin, and i would so love to have Tim Drake in there with him.

And i too love the whole idea of gotham cause of the rooftop battles, you could be knocked off into a free fall and regain stature and grapple on a building or just spread the cape and go for a monumental glide while you soar through rain and storm. I think that would be amazing, and then comes the idea of being able to solve petty thefts from muggings to big jobs like bank robberies, you could chase down cars, trash gang hideouts all increasing re-playability. But then my big thing is co-op, it would be mind-blowing to be watching a group of thugs in their hideout going about their business, while you and friend as Batman and Nightwing watch from the shadows, then lunge down back against back, fists up, and you spring into action.

Also, with the gadgets i am at a sort of loss of what to think, i love the gadgets you have because they sort of come up in certain situations on guy on a ledge batclaw, or line launch, a guy who just won't come your way throw down a sonic batarang. But i agree they aren't the best on gadgets and they could go in a different slightly more tactical way, as in get into a spot of trouble smoke yourself out, two guys with guns at once? flashbang one and take down the other. Also context gadgets would be good, you have a bunch to choose from and equip yourself so when you find out your fighting freeze you take a flame torch or something. Firefly take a flame retardent gadget, i know this sort of clashes with batman is always prepared for everything, but if you were truly prepared for everything in the game, you'd have about 400 gadgets in your pocket.

[Barnster79]

I just love 95% of the game the way it is now. All I wish for a sequel are some cool features like new costumes and keeping your gadgets. Don´t change the Freeflow-System, don´t put Robin in the Story as a playable charakter. It would be great to have other playable charakters, but please not in Story-Mode, because it is a "BATMAN-GAME!" Robin, Nightwing and the others only work in comics but not in a game.

[EliteF50]

For those supporting free roam can you try and explain how would you personally try and pull off:
- Fast and fun traveling across the city
- How will you use the batmobile, obviously as a hero you cant hit the normal citizens of gotham because thats not Batman at all

- Fast and fun traveling across the city
Batwing, Batboat, Batmobile.

- How will you use the batmobile, obviously as a hero you cant hit the normal citizens of Gotham because thats not Batman at all
Then always make them jump out of the way (like in Midnight Club).

[Mayday six]

I just love 95% of the game the way it is now. All I wish for a sequel are some cool features like new costumes and keeping your gadgets. Don´t change the Freeflow-System, don´t put Robin in the Story as a playable charakter. It would be great to have other playable charakters, but please not in Story-Mode, because it is a "BATMAN-GAME!" Robin, Nightwing and the others only work in comics but not in a game.

How do you know they don't fit if they aren't in it. And yeah it's a batman game, which is why people want Robin and Nightwing cause THEY ARE BATMAN. they are his sons for gods sake. how much closer do you want? the only people batman emotionally relates too, the only people he cares about.

[Brako]

Thanks for all the support on that matter chaps. I am sure alot of deaf gamers could benifit from things like this.

As you chaps mentioned, subtitles have made games so much better for the deaf community to enjoy...there a just a few more things that could be addressed so that they have 100% gameplay ability like we do.

As for more how I want the next game to improve...

As many have said, there needs to be a much bigger story involved. When I was first playing Arkhma Asylum, I noticed that by the time I had killed Ivy, I was still only 60+% through the game.

I didn't realise that the challenge rooms was included in this and it was kind of a downer. Keep the challenge stuff completely seperate from anything to do with the story stats.

I think they should also add a seperate file, aswell as a save plus 1 mode. The latter option would allow you to begin your next playthrough with all your upgrades, this meaning that you can play the earlier sections of the game completely different that the first time around.

[Mayday six]

Thanks for all the support on that matter chaps. I am sure alot of deaf gamers could benifit from things like this.

As you chaps mentioned, subtitles have made games so much better for the deaf community to enjoy...there a just a few more things that could be addressed so that they have 100% gameplay ability like we do.

As for more how I want the next game to improve...

As many have said, there needs to be a much bigger story involved. When I was first playing Arkhma Asylum, I noticed that by the time I had killed Ivy, I was still only 60+% through the game.

I didn't realise that the challenge rooms was included in this and it was kind of a downer. Keep the challenge stuff completely seperate from anything to do with the story stats.

I think they should also add a seperate file, aswell as a save plus 1 mode. The latter option would allow you to begin your next playthrough with all your upgrades, this meaning that you can play the earlier sections of the game completely different that the first time around.
Don't mention it buddy, it's for a good cause so and i speak for drazar on his behalf but we're happy to do it.

and yeah i'm not sure i liked the length, obviously longer is always better but it takes alot of time. i liked the length of riddles, not too little not too many, i like your point on challenge maps they could be seperate, good point. And new game pluses as you mentioned. They are fairly common on games so i think that they didn't miss this in B:AA but actively choose to not do it, unlocking too many riddles too fast, blowing up walls, probly advancing the game to fast, and as the level of difficulty in this game isn't OVERALL hard, yeah i know the combat can be so punishing but if your on hard climbing the elevator shaft isn't any different from normal is it, the platforming sections don't get harder or anything, so the game would be a total breeze, for some parts anyhow.

[Brako]

Oh yeah I know what you mean in terms of the games difficulty, the only true dficult part has been the actual combat challenges...but story mode was pretty easy to be honest.

I always look at save + games as an extra way to play the game. So whilst your correct in that you don't want to do everything to fast. Save + games can be there for when you just want that odd playthrough to be a breeze and use different weapons on the earlier bosses etc.

It's not a must have to play way, but the option for it to be there is always nice.

I think Dead Space did a good job with save +. It allowed you to continue your next playthrough with all your goodies...but only on the difficulty that the profile was played on. This way it stops people jumping into hard mode with all the guns, and then a billion threads saying the game was too easy.

[kalle90]

Gameplaywise AA is near perfect. I don't see the small improvements making a new 10+ game. If we would only get new story, it could be given to us as DLC. I wouldn't pay $60 for a new storymode.

The thing I'd like to see is more material and freedom. That calls for open world (atleast a LOT bigger) Gotham game. All Batman gadgets and vehicles, all the villains in big roles, more use of detective mode, more freedom and thinking in terms of moving and doing stuff.

Spiderman2 is pretty amazing benchmark. It lacked some intensity, but it could be fixed. AA is not based on movie afterall, things could be altered to fit a game.

Everything could be planned accordingly. Riddler is perhaps the best invisible storyteller, he could give you tons of simultaneous hints about what to do. You think and look for things instead of wanting to rush to point B. Most civilians could be hiding in houses or leave the city so you couldn't kill atleast many of them......

1. Free Gotham with a handful of buildings you can enter and some well placed gargoyles and stuff so you can reach rooftops
2. Batman with all his abilities and gadgets
3. The Riddler arranging an another prisonbreak. Criminals taking over the streets, all the villains doing something. The Riddler gives Batman a mystery he can't solve in time. He controls you by putting dozens of riddles around the city like Joker controlled you in AA.
= The complete Batman experience. Even worse night than the Arkham night was. The game can be pretty much like AA but with few huge improvements.

Of course there's the question whether it would work on today's tech or not. AA is a power and space hog already.

[Mayday six]

Oh yeah I know what you mean in terms of the games difficulty, the only true dficult part has been the actual combat challenges...but story mode was pretty easy to be honest.

I always look at save + games as an extra way to play the game. So whilst your correct in that you don't want to do everything to fast. Save + games can be there for when you just want that odd playthrough to be a breeze and use different weapons on the earlier bosses etc.

It's not a must have to play way, but the option for it to be there is always nice.

I think Dead Space did a good job with save +. It allowed you to continue your next playthrough with all your goodies...but only on the difficulty that the profile was played on. This way it stops people jumping into hard mode with all the guns, and then a billion threads saying the game was too easy.

Resident evil 5 i played that about 7 times, thanks to the game plus because it let you play over and stronger with your customized weapons etc a really great thing. I suppose the reason it isn't in Batman is because there is not as much to customize or change and keep you know?

and Kalle, well like the reason sequels exist is so you get what you love again isn't it? that's why people would pay $60 bucks you payed it for this which you loved, so now it's a whole new story and has a few new gadgets? why would you not want that it's what you love and a little more. that's surely what you want and the whole idea and point and ideal that resulted in sequels being invented. Aduh. And don't just jump on the dlc bandwagon cause it's around now, what if this was ten years ago?

[Brako]

If there was to ever be a Batman sandbox type of game, you would need to have something to do after/during you complete the story.

Detective mode was a great addition, and I am sure it could be added into a sandbox type of game...should there ever be one.

One idea that I had was having to go to a certain place to trigger bonus crime solving missions. GTA IV had a really bad problem, in that it called for you to do things when you didn't want to. The way Batman could work is if you had to go to a really high structered building in the game. Once up there you could then goto detective mode and then scan the area.

Once a signal for help has been scanned, you then go to your map to see what crime is happening and at what location, for thsi example lets say it's a bank robbery.

You then have a time limit to get to the bank to capture the robbery in progress and stop the goons. If you stop them you get extra bonus's. If not, then you go back into detective mode and scan the area for clues. Once a clue has been found you then store the info and it logs at your computer in the cave and it gives a few choices of who the robbery could have been done by from previous DNA traces at other crimes. You can then choose to track the down to finish that particular mission.

Just an idea and only would be of any use if there was ever to be a Batman sandbox type game.

[kalle90]

But it's not 10 years ago.

After playing Oblivion and Fallout DLC I just can't understand why would someone make a brand new game with hardly any improvements. DLC is made for adding new levels and items, if you don't want to change or add anything groundbreaking. I say the only thing standing in front of widerscale DLC is the size of hard drives

It's just that only doing a new 10 hour game, adding 5 new items and upgrading the graphics with new animations etc gets old very fast. That has ruined most sequels

Not to mention I would love to stalk on rooftops, drive batmobile freely, actually investigate places, see more villains active... Real improvements.

[Mayday six]

If there was to ever be a Batman sandbox type of game, you would need to have something to do after/during you complete the story.

Detective mode was a great addition, and I am sure it could be added into a sandbox type of game...should there ever be one.

One idea that I had was having to go to a certain place to trigger bonus crime solving missions. GTA IV had a really bad problem, in that it called for you to do things when you didn't want to. The way Batman could work is if you had to go to a really high structered building in the game. Once up there you could then goto detective mode and then scan the area.

Once a signal for help has been scanned, you then go to your map to see what crime is happening and at what location, for thsi example lets say it's a bank robbery.

You then have a time limit to get to the bank to capture the robbery in progress and stop the goons. If you stop them you get extra bonus's. If not, then you go back into detective mode and scan the area for clues. Once a clue has been found you then store the info and it logs at your computer in the cave and it gives a few choices of who the robbery could have been done by from previous DNA traces at other crimes. You can then choose to track the down to finish that particular mission.

Just an idea and only would be of any use if there was ever to be a Batman sandbox type game.

I don't think batman and sandbox really mix, I guess this is in a way a sandbox, you were concealed in a limited area with the ability to go anywhere. A bigger area in Gotham would be great, but to change it from a third person action adventure would be bad, this way it focuses on the good stuff :)

[Brako]

For the rocksteady formula I agree. The game needs to stick to it's original game play. A sandbox game would have to be nothing to do with this series as a lot of things would have to be tonned down.

One of the great things about Arkham Asylum is the actual graphic detail. I know graphics should always come second to gameplay...but in B:AA's case, we get the best of both worlds.

[Mayday six]

For the rocksteady formula I agree. The game needs to stick to it's original game play. A sandbox game would have to be nothing to do with this series as a lot of things would have to be tonned down.

One of the great things about Arkham Asylum is the actual graphic detail. I know graphics should always come second to gameplay...but in B:AA's case, we get the best of both worlds.


yeah that's exactly it, combat would be weaker, graphics would be weaker, also technical efficiencies would probably be worse too behind the scenes. And yeah people say some stuff looked bland and stiff, but i say get a hd tv!

[Brako]

Oh god yeah!

It's a shame that not everyone can afford HD TV's, but this is definitely how Batman : Arkham Asylum needs to be seen...just as it did with the likes of Assassins Creed and BioShock.

It's the actual enviroments thats give these type of games there life, and without the proper TV, I guess it kind of kills it a little.

I also hope they improve boss battles next time around. B:AA is probably one of the best games to build up from. Its a great game but does have its faults, but this gives the chance for the sequal to outshine everything out there, and not just for Bat-fans.

But I felt the bosses in this game let those end of level moments down a little.

Ivy's battle was pretty good, I personally don't see how that particular battle could have been done better. But all the rest seemed to have had the exact same formula from the very first Titan you fought.

[Mayday six]

Oh god yeah!

It's a shame that not everyone can afford HD TV's, but this is definitely how Batman : Arkham Asylum needs to be seen...just as it did with the likes of Assassins Creed and BioShock.

It's the actual enviroments thats give these type of games there life, and without the proper TV, I guess it kind of kills it a little.

I also hope they improve boss battles next time around. B:AA is probably one of the best games to build up from. Its a great game but does have its faults, but this gives the chance for the sequal to outshine everything out there, and not just for Bat-fans.

But I felt the bosses in this game let those end of level moments down a little.

Ivy's battle was pretty good, I personally don't see how that particular battle could have been done better. But all the rest seemed to have had the exact same formula from the very first Titan you fought.

Bioshock, now there's a masterpiece. And i know what you mean, lately there's games with boss' that just blow, your, mind. And this was not one, when i thought Bane i was like yeah big guy, not too smart now he's on venom, fair enough, lead him into walls, then i was like titans too! little lame, then crock was just hit the neck and he goes down. and poison ivy could of been less arcade is, you had a semi circle to walk on, and she had two basic attacks you could of been able to run around her in freedom, maybe climb on the plant, her vines try and whip you. Things to make it more immersive. And yeah this game is gonna build and be more amazing than ever, i hope.

And kalle just read your post, sorry about not noticing it, and yeah well, it's principle. And the thing with DLC is not everyone can get it, and a new game is a new game, it goes further and recieves more funding than DLC, and yes a sequel adds things, but not changes the original core, there is no argument there, so i do not see why you are fighting this. I just don't like how many people want to be done with this game forever and act like they need something new entirely, it's like you loved this so you want something different? i can't understand that. And sequels are never ruined by being the same? they are ruined by being changed too much! gears of war 2 is an example, and resident evil 5, great game, but people complained because it's NOTHING like the original, is this what you want for batman, you moan and groan for something totally different then when it's given you complain that it's not the same as what you loved. Also the name sequel defines what i mean an ADAPTATION of an original product, if it's totally different, it's not a sequel it is it's own standalone product/franchise.

[kalle90]

Sports games are the same. Resident Evil got changed because the old gameplay was in some 5 games and some wanted new. So it works the other way around too. It's just that when developers start to use the old again and again just for the sake of it, at some point the result will be worse than the old games

I never said it should be completely different. Keep AA, make it a lot more open, and remove or reduce stuff accordingly. I wouldn't care if it looked like Spiderman 2 or GTA IV. If it's simply impossible, then no can do. I just buy the game if and when the price is right

[Mayday six]

Sports games are the same. Resident Evil got changed because the old gameplay was in some 5 games and some wanted new. So it works the other way around too. It's just that when developers start to use the old again and again just for the sake of it, at some point the result will be worse than the old games

I never said it should be completely different. Keep AA, make it a lot more open, and remove or reduce stuff accordingly. I wouldn't care if it looked like Spiderman 2 or GTA IV. If it's simply impossible, then no can do. I just buy the game if and when the price is right
You don't think changing the game into spider-man 2 or GTA is too much? completely ruining the games effect, this game was great and everyone loves it without a HUGE free roam, everyone seems to miss that. i think the space should be bigger, but not at the risk of gameplay and graphics, which is definately what will happen if they take your suggestion. Those games are not third person perspective action adventure games. They are way too different, this is about intricate level design so you can platform. superman returns is exactly what your asking, look how that game turned out. Abysmal.

[Brako]

I think if there were to ever be a sandbox BATMAN game. We are best waiting until next gen consoles arrive. This way nothing has to be down-graded hopfully.

Whilst BATMAN : Arkham Asylum is a treat for gamers. It has killed it for other developers to just churn out anything with a comic hero and hope that it's not only grandmothers who buy the games for there grand children at christmas time.

Rocksteady have set a bench mark here. Sure there will always be crappy movie tie-ingames...that hasn't changed for almost 20 years..and never will.

But it has now given the actual comic fan base fans the chance to stand up and say " Why should we pay for crap super hero cash-ins, when we have seen what Rocksteady did with just one game".

Selling a game to a gamer who is in it just for the shiny graphics is easy...tonnes of developers have proven that. But to be able to get the actual comic fan base, aswell as none comic fans, interested in the same thing...that takes some doing. Rocksteady seem to have done that with this game, but there is still lot sof improvements to be made.

[Mayday six]

I think if there were to ever be a sandbox BATMAN game. We are best waiting until next gen consoles arrive. This way nothing has to be down-graded hopfully.

Whilst BATMAN : Arkham Asylum is a treat for gamers. It has killed it for other developers to just churn out anything with a comic hero and hope that it's not only grandmothers who buy the games for there grand children at christmas time.

Rocksteady have set a bench mark here. Sure there will always be crappy movie tie-ingames...that hasn't changed for almost 20 years..and never will.

But it has now given the actual comic fan base fans the chance to stand up and say " Why should we pay for crap super hero cash-ins, when we have seen what Rocksteady did with just one game".

Selling a game to a gamer who is in it just for the shiny graphics is easy...tonnes of developers have proven that. But to be able to get the actual comic fan base, aswell as none comic fans, interested in the same thing...that takes some doing. Rocksteady seem to have done that with this game, but there is still lot sof improvements to be made.

Yes sir, i agree. I think it's all down to the way you feel the role of the character, due to the unreal engine amongst other things, but you all remember when you first started up the demo and took those first steps and really felt like the Bat, that movement physics is cause of the unreal engine 3, and i hope they make a spider-man and a green lantern game with the same heart as this, those would make me damn near explode.

[kalle90]

Making this a successful sandbox game is all about execution. Batmobile, wall scaling etc. are very important feats of Batman. Arkham isn't the best quality gaming will reach, there has to be major improvements.

But because Arkham Asylum is the top of current consoles, we probably need to wait for next console gen to dream about it.

[stoobytoons]

You don't think changing the game into spider-man 2 or GTA is too much? completely ruining the games effect, this game was great and everyone loves it without a HUGE free roam, everyone seems to miss that. i think the space should be bigger, but not at the risk of gameplay and graphics, which is definately what will happen if they take your suggestion. Those games are not third person perspective action adventure games. They are way too different, this is about intricate level design so you can platform. superman returns is exactly what your asking, look how that game turned out. Abysmal.

Look how many platforming games based on Batman turned out worse than Superman Returns.

You do realize that 3rd person perspective, and action/adventure games are EXACTLY what Spider-Man 2 and GTA IV are, right? I'm hoping you had a type-o in there. hehe

Look, AA was a great idea for what it was. But now that it's been done (and contrary to popular belief, we explored parts of Arkham Asylum in the Batman Begins game back in 2005) it's time to keep what works and expand on that.

I don't think any pro-sandbox people are suggesting open-world, sans game play, combat or graphics. I, for one, was left wanting more from AA and the whole experience as Batman. The idea of Batman fighting his way through one of the longest nights of his life is a cool idea! But if you try to revisit that SAME idea in the next game, you really run the risk of a redundant experience and losing the faith of the fans once again.

Take the film franchise, for example. Chris Nolan proved himself with Batman Begins. He knew that for a sequel he had a lot to improve upon in order to make a sequel that would outdo the original. How did he do that? He made it bigger. He made it darker. He made it more intense. I feel that Rocksteady, in the gaming world, now finds itself in a unique position to open up Batman's world while playing up the strengths of the original game.
As far as the detailing and textures for an open-world Gotham, there are ways around hardware capabilities, such as "draw distance" and "refresh rate." Much of the detail in Assassin's Creed and in GTA IV was brilliant and both were quite large-scale open-world games. AC even had active details where Altair was able to interact with and climb on. They too are improving upon this, as well as including new dynamics such as gliding for AC2.
Really though -- I think the nay-saying about graphics and the lack of adequate combat in an open world Batman game are fairly unfounded. Try not to assume the worst. And try not to hope for a repeat experience. You can't expect to shoot the moon if you only aim for the ceiling. :p

[Mayday six]

Look how many platforming games based on Batman turned out worse than Superman Returns.

You do realize that 3rd person perspective, and action/adventure games are EXACTLY what Spider-Man 2 and GTA IV are, right? I'm hoping you had a type-o in there. hehe

Look, AA was a great idea for what it was. But now that it's been done (and contrary to popular belief, we explored parts of Arkham Asylum in the Batman Begins game back in 2005) it's time to keep what works and expand on that.

I don't think any pro-sandbox people are suggesting open-world, sans game play, combat or graphics. I, for one, was left wanting more from AA and the whole experience as Batman. The idea of Batman fighting his way through one of the longest nights of his life is a cool idea! But if you try to revisit that SAME idea in the next game, you really run the risk of a redundant experience and losing the faith of the fans once again.

Take the film franchise, for example. Chris Nolan proved himself with Batman Begins. He knew that for a sequel he had a lot to improve upon in order to make a sequel that would outdo the original. How did he do that? He made it bigger. He made it darker. He made it more intense. I feel that Rocksteady, in the gaming world, now finds itself in a unique position to open up Batman's world while playing up the strengths of the original game.
As far as the detailing and textures for an open-world Gotham, there are ways around hardware capabilities, such as "draw distance" and "refresh rate." Much of the detail in Assassin's Creed and in GTA IV was brilliant and both were quite large-scale open-world games. AC even had active details where Altair was able to interact with and climb on. They too are improving upon this, as well as including new dynamics such as gliding for AC2.
Really though -- I think the nay-saying about graphics and the lack of adequate combat in an open world Batman game are fairly unfounded. Try not to assume the worst. And try not to hope for a repeat experience. You can't expect to shoot the moon if you only aim for the ceiling. :p

spider-man 2 is an action adventure, but more of a beat em up, and is not as good as this game, it's far weaker due to it's age. GTA 4 is a sandbox, it features action and adventure but that is not it's genre, it's a shooter too, it is not ' EXACTLY' the same as you said, and don't be condescending it's rude. how are they not unfounded? look at batman arkham asylum graphics, gears of war graphics compared to gta 4! i'm pretty sure it's founded right there. And yes it should be in Arkham there is no where else to go. But it's like people don't want combat or platforming anymore, they just want 'a big open world to roam around' and it's not what made this game good, the intimate and intricate detail and surroundings of this game made it good, made it platformable. Yet people just want to run around gta 4 style. You can't do that in this game, so why do you think it'd be the perfect experience, the sequel needs to be set after Assassins creed definately, but not GTA 4, there is a big difference.

[kalle90]

That's it. In my mind it would just be Arkham Asylum on Gotham City. The game area is multiple times bigger allowing more choices of routes, deeper detective work, more villains and Batman's gadgets and vehicles.
Dark night, criminals roaming the streets, the riddler guiding you around the city. Basically everything AA is but multiple times bigger. More use of Batman license.

Not to forget, Arkham Asylum is a place in Gotham. We could visit, atleast a smaller part of it. Surely in addition to streets places like Arkham, Wayne's manor and a few apartments (crime scenes & villain hideouts) should be open for us. Unfortunately that pretty much confirms AA2 won't work on current gen-consoles.

[fatalitymaster]

I would quite like the next Batman game to be set in Gotham City but set up and functionality to be the same as Batman: AA where its not totally free roam and you have to go to certain areas for the game to progress. I would not play a sandbox game because they get boring, Batman AA did it right with the mix of both with inside levels with a hint of free roam around the island and thats how it should be in the next one in Gotham.

Secrets outside and inside like AA but main storyline consist of inside buildings etc. It would be cool if they gave us the freedom to run across roof tops to discover secrets but have the main story be told through levels in buildings and in the sewers just like AA.

Short answer.................Just like Arkham Asylum but in Gotham City.

`I wouldn't mind if it was set in another place like AA but I don't know anywhere thats like that in the Batman universe.

[Old_BenKenobi]

I would quite like the next Batman game to be set in Gotham City but set up and functionality to be the same as Batman: AA where its not totally free roam and you have to go to certain areas for the game to progress. I would not play a sandbox game because they get boring, Batman AA did it right with the mix of both with inside levels with a hint of free roam around the island and thats how it should be in the next one in Gotham.

Secrets outside and inside like AA but main storyline consist of inside buildings etc. It would be cool if they gave us the freedom to run across roof tops to discover secrets but have the main story be told through levels in buildings and in the sewers just like AA.

Short answer.................Just like Arkham Asylum but in Gotham City.

`I wouldn't mind if it was set in another place like AA but I don't know anywhere thats like that in the Batman universe.

I agree completely.

[Backblast72]

They could travel back in time and present the Legen of Batman from it's origin, you know when Bruce dawns the Batman Costume for the first time and begings to patrol the streets of Gotham.

If they would pay attention to the story and graphics and everything that's made this game what it is, I can't see how that game wouldn't be a hit either.

[SolidSnake_123]

I don't care where the setting is, if Robin's in it, or if Raiden is batman.... All I want is just one line..... "Holy elephants Batman!!" Is that to much to ask for?

[stoobytoons]

spider-man 2 is an action adventure, but more of a beat em up, and is not as good as this game, it's far weaker due to it's age. GTA 4 is a sandbox, it features action and adventure but that is not it's genre, it's a shooter too,

Well, I guess I'll bite and argue semantics for a bit.
Action/Adventure is a broad term; so when I say that Spider-Man 2 falls under that category I'm saying "There are elements of action (i.e. "beat em up") and also adventure (i.e. chasing Doc Ock on the train). I would consider Street Fighter IV to be a "beat em up" since fighting is the only aspect to it.
The same goes for GTA4 - there's action and adventure; story of Nikko and his rise from obscurity, etc., as well as the action of gun fights, car chases, and fist fights.

it is not ' EXACTLY' the same as you said, and don't be condescending it's rude.

Try not to confuse a condescending tone with an informed point of view. You're welcome to back up your side of the issue, but if I think you're wrong, I'll let you know (which I did) and I'll explain why (which I did above.) I'd like to think that we're intelligent enough people that we don't have to pamper the conversation with "sorry to have my own opinion" or "don't mean to disagree completely.." Let's just keep it from getting personal, okay? That just spoils the fun and I'll just be inclined discontinue the conversation. Cool with you?


how are they not unfounded? look at batman arkham asylum graphics, gears of war graphics compared to gta 4! i'm pretty sure it's founded right there.

Well, I don't really know what system you played GTA 4 on, but I found it to actually be quite highly detailed. Reviews of the game seemed to agree with me. Keep in mind it did score higher on IGN, for example, than did Batman: Arkham Asylum. Don't get me wrong, AA is beautiful! But again, you don't need to see massive amounts of detail on buildings 10 blocks away; it can be re-rendered once Batman approaches.

And yes it should be in Arkham there is no where else to go.

What?

But it's like people don't want combat or platforming anymore, they just want 'a big open world to roam around' and it's not what made this game good, the intimate and intricate detail and surroundings of this game made it good, made it platformable. Yet people just want to run around gta 4 style.

Allow me to quote what I said before:
I don't think any pro-sandbox people are suggesting open-world, sans game play, combat or graphics.
What part of that did you misunderstand? Batman needs great combat. I actually think that some of the combat in this game could even be improved! (Blasphemous, I know. Sue me.)
Forgive me for saying this (rats I did it..) but this mentality of folks that are anti-free-roam are so absolutely dead-set against it that they actually assume that JUST getting to walk around Gotham would be the be all end all of Batman games. Not so. How in the hell did things become so black and white? If it's not one it's the other?? For goodness sakes!
There absolutely needs to be a fantastic story and list of challenges and mysteries to solve. There needs to be stunning visuals to augment the operatic feel that goes with the Batman universe. Likewise, game play and combat should be top-notch and the vehicles and gadgets need to be clever and enjoyable. This is an all-encompassing Batman experience. It's like, "Take B:AA and open it up to Gotham City and cut out the load screens if possible, and add more gadgets and vehicles" to paraphrase. Does that make any sense at all?


You can't do that in this game, so why do you think it'd be the perfect experience, the sequel needs to be set after Assassins creed definately, but not GTA 4, there is a big difference.

There are some obvious differences in terms of game play, time period, tone, and visual style. But what "big difference" are you referring to?

[Joke's on you]

With this game, they have created the perfect recipe for an awsome batman game. Now i just say, dont mess with it. Don't change a thing. Just maybe add a drivable Batmobile, and some sort of co-op, and I'd be really happy with the sequel.

[kalle90]

There absolutely needs to be a fantastic story and list of challenges and mysteries to solve. There needs to be stunning visuals to augment the operatic feel that goes with the Batman universe. Likewise, game play and combat should be top-notch and the vehicles and gadgets need to be clever and enjoyable. This is an all-encompassing Batman experience. It's like, "Take B:AA and open it up to Gotham City and cut out the load screens if possible, and add more gadgets and vehicles" to paraphrase. Does that make any sense at all?

That's what I feel. Arkham Asylum didn't try to be just another episode of the animated series. It tried to be a lot more. Hence all the (references to) villains, hence the wide variety of gadgets, hence the moveset and detective mode, hence the batmobile cameo, hence the entire Arhkham Asylum. Arkham Asylum tried to be Batman to the maximum unlike all the previous Batman games and movies. Not sure about comics because I haven't seen them all but I don't think this much stuff with this depth has been in any comic either.

It's just logical that next game features all of Gotham; the villains, the gadgets and vehicles, Batman's abilities. As much as is possible to put on disc and hardware with good story and coherency.
"Be the Dark Knight of Gotham City."

[Mayday six]

That's what I feel. Arkham Asylum didn't try to be just another episode of the animated series. It tried to be a lot more. Hence all the (references to) villains, hence the wide variety of gadgets, hence the moveset and detective mode, hence the batmobile cameo, hence the entire Arhkham Asylum. Arkham Asylum tried to be Batman to the maximum unlike all the previous Batman games and movies. Not sure about comics because I haven't seen them all but I don't think this much stuff with this depth has been in any comic either.

It's just logical that next game features all of Gotham; the villains, the gadgets and vehicles, Batman's abilities. As much as is possible to put on disc and hardware with good story and coherency.
"Be the Dark Knight of Gotham City."

No game has tried to be an episode of the animated series? like thats not a starting point of a game, it's always been about all of the batman legacy that inspires a game to be made, regardless of what is around that makes the game come out. And i do not mean to be rude, but please, please retract what you said about no Batman comic has had this much depth, because clearly you don't know, but you are really really underestimating and not realising the true power of 70 years of comics, and why we still have them today. And i take this as a huge insult.

[kalle90]

I don't mean to be rude. Simply no single comic book story can tell a 12 hour story while showing all the straps, tiles and other details you see in Arkham Asylum. This single game easily combines atleast a dozen comics. I consider the fact that you can choose to throw a batarang or beat an enemy with your hands depth. You can't make free decisions like that in comics, although the depth of dialogue and plot can be better.
All the previous games I remember are movie or TV series by-products. This game clearly tried to be a game first using everything it can from Batman universe. If there's room for more, I'd gladly take more.

A comic or a movie can't have Batman beat all of his villains everywhere in Gotham by using all of his arsenal. It has to be seperated into countless comics or movies. A single game could give us the ability to do that. "Here's Gotham, You're Batman - Go"
Exactly like Spiderman 2 did. Spiderman 1 felt like an episode of a comic with restrictions, in Spiderman 2 I was the Spiderman. That really shows in the depth and longevity of the game. In Spiderman 2 I'm the Guardian of New York. The same way I wish I could be the Dark Knight of Gotham.

[stoobytoons]

No game has tried to be an episode of the animated series? like thats not a starting point of a game, it's always been about all of the batman legacy that inspires a game to be made, regardless of what is around that makes the game come out. And i do not mean to be rude, but please, please retract what you said about no Batman comic has had this much depth, because clearly you don't know, but you are really really underestimating and not realising the true power of 70 years of comics, and why we still have them today. And i take this as a huge insult.

Kalle90 wasn't insulting anybody; that's silly.
I get what he's saying; you get singular panels and the illusion of highly detailed images, but you don't get the 3D, real-time world in a comic that you would with a game. That's just fact and it's certainly not a personal attack. haha! Why so serious??

I don't mean to be rude. Simply no single comic book story can tell a 12 hour story while showing all the straps, tiles and other details you see in Arkham Asylum. This single game easily combines atleast a dozen comics. I consider the fact that you can choose to throw a batarang or beat an enemy with your hands depth. You can't make free decisions like that in comics, although the depth of dialogue and plot can be better.
All the previous games I remember are movie or TV series by-products. This game clearly tried to be a game first using everything it can from Batman universe. If there's room for more, I'd gladly take more.

A comic or a movie can't have Batman beat all of his villains everywhere in Gotham by using all of his arsenal. It has to be seperated into countless comics or movies. A single game could give us the ability to do that. "Here's Gotham, You're Batman - Go"
Exactly like Spiderman 2 did. Spiderman 1 felt like an episode of a comic with restrictions, in Spiderman 2 I was the Spiderman. That really shows in the depth and longevity of the game. In Spiderman 2 I'm the Guardian of New York. The same way I wish I could be the Dark Knight of Gotham.

I think you've made some good observations here. I remember playing Spiderman 1 and being dreadfully disappointed with the number of limitations. Heck, I found myself equally annoyed with the fact that in B:AA you couldn't at least TRY to glide out to the lighthouse, but that you just end up falling after hitting an "invisible wall."
But I agree with you on the last statement. Being a superhero should allow for super responsibilities. Decision-making should be a part of that equation. Take for example in TDK -- the scene where Batman races off to save Rachel from the warehouse. Joker gives him an address and he has to beat the clock. There ya go; that's a gameplay challenge. Drive from GCPD to the address under 3 minutes and pull the character out.
You follow a story, you open up Gotham, and there's action/adventure elements = everyone's happy.
I don't see how this could lose.

[kalle90]

Yes. Games are dynamic while comics are not. You can't have all the facial expressions Joker has, you can't animate a batarang flying, you can't have realistic rain... in a comic. Or if you could the comic would be 1000 pages long.

It could work pretty much GTA style, with Riddler being the main drive like Joker was in AA.
1. Stormy and dark Gotham that's under chaos (another Asylum escape, most civilians are evacuated or escaping)
2. Spread criminals and villains around Gotham (plus random rescue, fight etc. missions)
3. The Riddler gives you the very first hint of what to do. It's time for him to give you a mystery you can't solve in time. Gotham is slowly collapsing and there's nothing for you to protect anymore?
4. You follow his clues and move around the city (Every now and then you get cutscenes and missions that aren't made by Riddler. Like when you meet Joker he pretty much gives you a choice to fight him or you can go help people who are supposedly in danger). Eventually all the criminals are apprehanded, you beat Riddler and the Gotham is saved once again (But still have some random crimes and duties to do)
5. Basically Arkham Asylum times 10. More use of detective mode and work, more freedom in strategies, more villains, More everything Batman. The intensity is kept with time limits, huge gangs of criminals everywhere (struggling with each other too?) and your conviction of stopping crime. Every now and then you could end up in small buildings. Perhaps you will be stuck in Arkham again, although a smaller part of it?

I compare it with the Spiderman games:
Spiderman 1 was ok - Spiderman 2 was great
Batman 1 was amazing - Batman 2 is...?

The only thing standing in front of the success are the console and PC limits. And whether someone plans to make up to par Batman game ever again :D


Sidenote: Robin with co-op ability would sound like a good backup for this mission. You wouldn't have to see him much at all because there's work to do everywhere. Alfred, Gordon and Barbara would also have their roles.
There could also be an option to kill someone. So when (if) the civilians return, you could kill them too, with heavy consequences. You become an unwanted fugitive. It would have to be something comparable with falling to the Dark Side in Star Wars after being on Light side for a long time. Of course it wouldn't be canon, just an interesting and realistic twist. That's if the civilians would have to return.

[We Are The Archers]

Pros of a free roam game:
1. Freedom to do what you want, where and when you want.
2. Exploration.
3. Pace of the game is determined by the player.

Cons:
1. The story fails to be immersive to the degree of games who make you follow a more linear path.
2. Often the amount of detail put into the buildings and streets sacrifices quality in other areas. Such as building interiors, story, character models.
3. The freedom to do anything makes what you can't do stand out more. Why can't I go into every building? From a tech stand point this has an obvious answer. But in the spirit of a sandbox do-anything-I-please game, anything you can't do sticks out like a sore thumb.
4. Exploration. There's often so much to do in these games it's overwhelming, and tedious. Why is it I have to kill 150 pigeons again? It becomes less of a game and more of a "Get X amount of this." in some cases. Granted it's not required, but to enjoy every aspect of the game and get everything as I am want to do, I end up wanting to stick a screwdriver thru my eye socket to end the pain of this so-called sandbox.
5. I often end up quitting these games even before I beat them out of sheer frustration of how much I have to do in them, and it ends up tarnishing the experience as a whole.

I've layed out why I personally don't like them. Now why don't you (I'm talking to you, stoobytoons) tell me why and how this could be a good idea instead of bashing me on all points I try to make? Prove me wrong bud. I don't nessessarily think a Batman free roam gotham game would be bad if done right. I just don't think it can and will be done right.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on Spiderman 2. Though, I will try to come to some common ground here and say that Ultimate Spiderman was terrific, if not short. That game is a good example of quality free roaming.

I agree completely. Except, I liked Spider-Man 2 =P
But those pros and cons are so true. The only open world games I really got into were those Bethesda (and a few by Blizzard if Diablo 2 could be considered free-roam.)
Also, someone brought up the fact that using the Batmobile would be hard to do considering it would be easy to crash into cars and people and I agree...Batman is much better at driving than me.

I think we should put trust in Rocksteady. They made the game they wanted to and we all love it. If they want to make a second, they need to do it how they want and I'm sure no one will be disappointed.

[Clappertron]

I can not believe the amount of people supporting a sandbox style sequel to this game and I had to sign up just to question the reasoning. The restricted environment is what made this game amazing in my opinion. I fail to see how a sandbox Gotham is what needs to happen in a sequel, there is almost nothing good that could come from that. Allowing the player to drive around Gotham in the Batmobile, doing missions whenever they choose would turn this game into a joke and destroy any sort of atmosphere the first game built up for so many reasons.

As many people have mentioned, Batman doesn't kill people. Period. So already, there's the problem of dodging civilians while driving. I know someone mentioned having the civilians just automatically dodge you before you hit them but can you not see how insane that would be? Civilians making 90 degree hair pin turns to dodge the Batmobile flying down the streets, or Civilians just side stepping you right before you hit them, please. And because I know someone is going to bring it up, yes I'm aware Batarangs and other devices just bounce off friendly NPCs in this game, but in my mind, thats much more acceptable than every civilian in Gotham having near perfect reflexes. Finally I have to ask, why do you need the Batmobile? No, I don't mean leave it out of the game, it's obviously a staple of the Batman mythos.I mean why do you need control of the Batmobile. Which brings me to my next point.

If the player is given the option to access all of Gotham, using all of Batmans vehicles and gadgets at a whim, nobody is going to care about the story, it's just going to turn into "Alright, so what can I do next?". Look at GTAIV, arguably one of the best games in the past decade, yeah it had an awesome story, but I highly doubt anyones first memory of that game is going to be anything story related. It's going to be the time they did something totally insane while just free roaming or screwing around, which is totally fine, I myself loved roaming the city, but, AA was so much about story, it doesn't make any sense to include something that is going to diminish the overall impact of the writing and character development. Especially if that distraction could be something out of character to Batman. (Ex. Trying to run down pedestrians in the Batmobile, ignoring a request for help or other story elements by just messing around)

Sorry, I realize this is turning into quite the essay, I'll just finish it off by saying I didn't mean to offend anyone or say their opinion is wrong and mine is better, just trying to give my two cents to the discussion in a civil way. I also want to point out that I think one day, a sandbox Batman game could rule if done right, just not for this series that has been set up beautifully with an obviously winning formula.

TL;DR
Sandbox Batman: AA Sequel=Incredible failure
Possible sandbox Batman game in the future could be alright, if done right.
A sequel for Batman:AA set in Gotham would be awesome, just more in the vein of this game. Small closed off sections, gadgets slowly unlocked, very story focussed.
Don't fix what isn't broken.

[Ahasverus]

I don't know where to post this, but lol
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/632648974_Wysws-L.jpg
The Dark Knight (Batman) Rules!

[SnakeJV]

A- The most interesting thing I can think of for now: starting with nothing but the fists. Not even the Batrangs and the grappling gun. This would contribute to a longer story mode too, because the equipment from the 1st game could be repeated here (every gadget, literally, and the batclaw should have to be "found" twice, first for one claw and second for the three claws), and some new equipments unique to this second adventure, and then we could have an enviroment with more interaction elements and a very long story mode.
B- longer-lasting story/exploration/riddles (at least twice longer, the 1st story is too short). For me, I like 50+hours games, and 50 is still too short for my taste. That's one of the main reasons I'm disapointed in MGS4, which lasts only 20 hours or less;
C- Joker, always, at the head of everything, not two-face, and PLEEEASE, never Penguin. He is too slimy;
D- More emphasis on stealth, because it is the most enjoyable feature of great games such as MGS saga and the first game of this new Batman saga, Arkham Asylum. More worldly possibilities to be stealthy and to attack from the shadows (not just gargoyles, and vent systems this time, but of course these should remain too).
E- Free Roaming Gotham City or not, please, do not make an awful job like "Batman & Robin (PS1)" turned out to be. But I think you guys should stick to this type of game (combat-stealth 3rd person adventure game, like Dead Space and Resident Evil 4). I wouldn't mind though if Bruce Wayne makes some appearences in the game. In fact, I would like to start the game at the Wayne Manor as Bruce (but nothing like "Batman Begins" game, meaning, no action in the Mansion), and upon receiving a call or seeing the signal in the sky, control Bruce through the Mansion until the batcave, becoming Batman, and then driving the batmobile to the intro or tutorial point (a pre-story mission. If you take the example of your first game, the pre-story to Arkham Asylum would have to be the City Hall incident), and after these, the main story itself. I think this setting would be just perfect for people to see Bruce before Batman, and a great excuse to drive the Batmobile a little for the duration of the travel (batcave to pre-story point, even if the main story itself is 3rd person Dead Space or Resident Evil 4 like). Alfred could make an appearence too, in a conversation (CGI), before Batman's presence is demanded by the comissioner.
F- If you'll ruin Batman's suit and cape again, please make it possible to upgrade not only his gadgets but also the suit (visually, not just in hit points). I like the batsuit intact. I don't like the armored one very much, by the way. I like the classic kevlar ones, from the 1989 saga of motion pictures.

[SirRoscoe]

I can not believe the amount of people supporting a sandbox style sequel to this game and I had to sign up just to question the reasoning. The restricted environment is what made this game amazing in my opinion. I fail to see how a sandbox Gotham is what needs to happen in a sequel, there is almost nothing good that could come from that. Allowing the player to drive around Gotham in the Batmobile, doing missions whenever they choose would turn this game into a joke and destroy any sort of atmosphere the first game built up for so many reasons.

As many people have mentioned, Batman doesn't kill people. Period. So already, there's the problem of dodging civilians while driving. I know someone mentioned having the civilians just automatically dodge you before you hit them but can you not see how insane that would be? Civilians making 90 degree hair pin turns to dodge the Batmobile flying down the streets, or Civilians just side stepping you right before you hit them, please. And because I know someone is going to bring it up, yes I'm aware Batarangs and other devices just bounce off friendly NPCs in this game, but in my mind, thats much more acceptable than every civilian in Gotham having near perfect reflexes. Finally I have to ask, why do you need the Batmobile? No, I don't mean leave it out of the game, it's obviously a staple of the Batman mythos.I mean why do you need control of the Batmobile. Which brings me to my next point.

If the player is given the option to access all of Gotham, using all of Batmans vehicles and gadgets at a whim, nobody is going to care about the story, it's just going to turn into "Alright, so what can I do next?". Look at GTAIV, arguably one of the best games in the past decade, yeah it had an awesome story, but I highly doubt anyones first memory of that game is going to be anything story related. It's going to be the time they did something totally insane while just free roaming or screwing around, which is totally fine, I myself loved roaming the city, but, AA was so much about story, it doesn't make any sense to include something that is going to diminish the overall impact of the writing and character development. Especially if that distraction could be something out of character to Batman. (Ex. Trying to run down pedestrians in the Batmobile, ignoring a request for help or other story elements by just messing around)

Sorry, I realize this is turning into quite the essay, I'll just finish it off by saying I didn't mean to offend anyone or say their opinion is wrong and mine is better, just trying to give my two cents to the discussion in a civil way. I also want to point out that I think one day, a sandbox Batman game could rule if done right, just not for this series that has been set up beautifully with an obviously winning formula.

TL;DR
Sandbox Batman: AA Sequel=Incredible failure
Possible sandbox Batman game in the future could be alright, if done right.
A sequel for Batman:AA set in Gotham would be awesome, just more in the vein of this game. Small closed off sections, gadgets slowly unlocked, very story focussed.
Don't fix what isn't broken.

Agrees 100%. Someone said on GameFAQS suggested that the sequel takes places during the No Man's Land story arc. As certain parts of the city will be blocked off due to devastation from the earthquake, it will allow those closed off sections of the city. It will retain most of the atmosphere, and attention to detail akin to this game.

[SolidSnake_123]

I don't know where to post this, but lol
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/632648974_Wysws-L.jpg
The Dark Knight (Batman) Rules!

Yeah man, thats sweet.

[stoobytoons]

I can not believe the amount of people supporting a sandbox style sequel to this game and I had to sign up just to question the reasoning. The restricted environment is what made this game amazing in my opinion. I fail to see how a sandbox Gotham is what needs to happen in a sequel, there is almost nothing good that could come from that. Allowing the player to drive around Gotham in the Batmobile, doing missions whenever they choose would turn this game into a joke and destroy any sort of atmosphere the first game built up for so many reasons.

As many people have mentioned, Batman doesn't kill people. Period. So already, there's the problem of dodging civilians while driving. I know someone mentioned having the civilians just automatically dodge you before you hit them but can you not see how insane that would be? Civilians making 90 degree hair pin turns to dodge the Batmobile flying down the streets, or Civilians just side stepping you right before you hit them, please. And because I know someone is going to bring it up, yes I'm aware Batarangs and other devices just bounce off friendly NPCs in this game, but in my mind, thats much more acceptable than every civilian in Gotham having near perfect reflexes. Finally I have to ask, why do you need the Batmobile? No, I don't mean leave it out of the game, it's obviously a staple of the Batman mythos.I mean why do you need control of the Batmobile. Which brings me to my next point.

If the player is given the option to access all of Gotham, using all of Batmans vehicles and gadgets at a whim, nobody is going to care about the story, it's just going to turn into "Alright, so what can I do next?". Look at GTAIV, arguably one of the best games in the past decade, yeah it had an awesome story, but I highly doubt anyones first memory of that game is going to be anything story related. It's going to be the time they did something totally insane while just free roaming or screwing around, which is totally fine, I myself loved roaming the city, but, AA was so much about story, it doesn't make any sense to include something that is going to diminish the overall impact of the writing and character development. Especially if that distraction could be something out of character to Batman. (Ex. Trying to run down pedestrians in the Batmobile, ignoring a request for help or other story elements by just messing around)

Sorry, I realize this is turning into quite the essay, I'll just finish it off by saying I didn't mean to offend anyone or say their opinion is wrong and mine is better, just trying to give my two cents to the discussion in a civil way. I also want to point out that I think one day, a sandbox Batman game could rule if done right, just not for this series that has been set up beautifully with an obviously winning formula.

TL;DR
Sandbox Batman: AA Sequel=Incredible failure
Possible sandbox Batman game in the future could be alright, if done right.
A sequel for Batman:AA set in Gotham would be awesome, just more in the vein of this game. Small closed off sections, gadgets slowly unlocked, very story focussed.
Don't fix what isn't broken.

All legitimate points. All of which have been previously addressed.

Once again, I have to say that AA is a kernel that should grow into something larger. True it was great seeing Batman in the setting of Arkham, but my friend, it's been done.
The last thing I want to experience from the next Batman game is constantly pulling open air vents and crawling through pipes for 16 hours.
Rocksteady has the start of something potentially so vast that they need NOT go back to the well so soon. Assuming that making Batman's world larger would ruin the game play of Batman is a gross misinterpretation of reality and I think you said it best by admitting that an open world Batman game would rock.

This "pedestrian" issue that keeps coming up is just plain silly. Firstly, how many people should honestly be running through the street at one time? Secondly, if a ped should get in the way, there could be some way to incorporate the repercussions into the point system of the game. I don't find it to be a deal-breaker concerning a Batman game.

The point is, since you inquired, to remove the conveniently "handed to you" moments that have been presented in Batman games. In other words, the setting of "stages." Personally, I would like to move on from the formula that is easily as old as Spaced Invaders and Super Mario Bros. and build up to something more intriguing.

Have more freedom is exactly what I felt was lacking in B:AA. The game was great, but if I had to be objective there are things I feel that can be improved upon for the next go around. Keeping things confined 100% of the time just sounds boring. I would definitely be okay with having confine MOMENTS in an open-world Batman.

Going back to Arkham, or fighting through Wayne Tower, or blablabla would instantly turn me off. I guess I'm just running out of explanations here. You kinda have to have a vision for it or you don't. :hmm:

[Sir Legendhead]

This "pedestrian" issue that keeps coming up is just plain silly. Firstly, how many people should honestly be running through the street at one time? Secondly, if a ped should get in the way, there could be some way to incorporate the repercussions into the point system of the game. I don't find it to be a deal-breaker concerning a Batman game.Actually, it would be a dealbreaker if Batman hit a civilian pedestrian with his car. That would have to be an automatic game over.

It could be easily avoided, though. Here's one way it could work: Batman goes out late at night when there's not many vehicles on the main streets. The few people out on foot at that hour would in the back alleys and far enough from the path of the Batmobile that you'd really have to go out of your way to hit one.

These back-alleys guys would likely be criminals anyway, so hitting them could work differently than hitting innocent bystanders. You'd still have to be careful, because every once in a while some tourist would wind up getting mugged back there and you wouldn't be able to mow him down along with the thugs who are robbing him.

Hitting a civilian car might go down as collateral damage, but running a civilian pedestrian over would end the game. And it would be considered open season on criminals, basically. You can hit them with the car as long as you don't kill them and their cars you could just blow the hell up.

[stoobytoons]

Actually, it would be a dealbreaker if Batman hit a civilian pedestrian with his car. That would have to be an automatic game over.

It could be easily avoided, though. Here's one way it could work: Batman goes out late at night when there's not many vehicles on the main streets. The few people out on foot at that hour would in the back alleys and far enough from the path of the Batmobile that you'd really have to go out of your way to hit one.

These back-alleys guys would likely be criminals anyway, so hitting them could work differently than hitting innocent bystanders. You'd still have to be careful, because every once in a while some tourist would wind up getting mugged back there and you wouldn't be able to mow him down along with the thugs who are robbing him.

Hitting a civilian car might go down as collateral damage, but running a civilian pedestrian over would end the game. And it would be considered open season on criminals, basically. You can hit them with the car as long as you don't kill them and their cars you could just blow the hell up.


Yeah, that could work.

I just think that if they were able to suspend disbelief for the car chase through Gotham in Batman Begins, it would work fine in a game.

[kalle90]

Lol I wrote my list on last page for nothing. Issues like civilian casaulties can easily be avoided.

1. Stormy and dark Gotham that's under chaos (another Asylum escape, most civilians are evacuated)
2. Spread criminals and villains around Gotham (plus random rescue, fight... missions)
3. The Riddler gives you the very first hint of what to do. It's time for him to give you a mystery you can't solve in time. Gotham is slowly collapsing and there's nothing for you to protect anymore?
4. You follow his clues and move around the city (Every now and then you get cutscenes and missions that aren't made by Riddler. Like when you meet Joker he pretty much gives you a choice to fight him or you can go help people who are supposedly in danger). Eventually all the criminals are apprehanded and Gotham is saved once again (But still have some random duties to do)
5. Basically Arkham Asylum times 10. More use of detective mode, more freedom in strategies, more villains, More everything Batman. The intensity is kept with time limits, huge gangs of criminals everywhere (struggling with each other too?) and your conviction of stopping crime. Every now and then you could end up in small buildings. Perhaps you will be stuck in Arkham again, although a smaller part of it?

Sandbox would be great because Batman is the guardian of Gotham, not the warden of Arkham ;) Huge part of being Batman is the Batmobile etcetc. Comics and Animated series usually had Batman move around the city instead of sticking to one place. Beneath all that cosmetic, Batman's intelligence and detective mode could be used a lot better in open world. I didn't feel especially smart or good detective when I played AA, but a big world where everything isn't placed right in front of me would allow a lot more. You could do everything Batman has ever done in comics or movies.

The only serious thing standing in front of it are the console and PC restrictions, which is why I think this can't happen soon. Everything else is just a matter of concept and execution.

[Resolve]

I would like to see a less linear game with better stealth mechanics/more gadgets/mini-games and a decent multiplayer system.

The multiplayer could either be 1v7 thug silent knight gameplay where thugs have gargoyle traps/flashlights/maybe tripwires and batman has limited everything.(including detective vision, would only last 20 seconds and has a cooldown of 30 seconds).

Something similar to Splinter Cell:Chaos Theory. That was the best online experience i've ever had besides socom 2.

[Clappertron]

All legitimate points. All of which have been previously addressed.

Once again, I have to say that AA is a kernel that should grow into something larger. True it was great seeing Batman in the setting of Arkham, but my friend, it's been done.
The last thing I want to experience from the next Batman game is constantly pulling open air vents and crawling through pipes for 16 hours.
Rocksteady has the start of something potentially so vast that they need NOT go back to the well so soon. Assuming that making Batman's world larger would ruin the game play of Batman is a gross misinterpretation of reality and I think you said it best by admitting that an open world Batman game would rock.

This "pedestrian" issue that keeps coming up is just plain silly. Firstly, how many people should honestly be running through the street at one time? Secondly, if a ped should get in the way, there could be some way to incorporate the repercussions into the point system of the game. I don't find it to be a deal-breaker concerning a Batman game.

The point is, since you inquired, to remove the conveniently "handed to you" moments that have been presented in Batman games. In other words, the setting of "stages." Personally, I would like to move on from the formula that is easily as old as Spaced Invaders and Super Mario Bros. and build up to something more intriguing.

Have more freedom is exactly what I felt was lacking in B:AA. The game was great, but if I had to be objective there are things I feel that can be improved upon for the next go around. Keeping things confined 100% of the time just sounds boring. I would definitely be okay with having confine MOMENTS in an open-world Batman.

Going back to Arkham, or fighting through Wayne Tower, or blablabla would instantly turn me off. I guess I'm just running out of explanations here. You kinda have to have a vision for it or you don't. :hmm:

I agree, Arkham asylum has been done, and the series does need to change places. Certainly to Gotham. I don't think setting the game in Arkham would make for a very exciting game at all because, yeah, it's been done so now the whole mystery and exploration factor is gone.

You make a good point with Batman Begins suspending disbelief and having Batman tear through roof tops and busy streets, but then again, there wasn't any chance someone in the audience was going to yell "Turn left and hit that pedestrian!" which is exactly what would happen if you gave that same person control of it in a game. I'm not trying to sound like a **** but it kind of is a deal breaker for anyone who really knows Batman. Batman wouldn't kill anyone under any circumstances, no matter what, he also, wouldn't just settle for "Oh I hit that guy but he's not dead, so whatever". The only way I can see around this is by having an instant game over like someone said, but by having something like that it's just going to be upsetting when it accidentally happens, which I think there would be ample opportunity for, so the easily solution in my eyes would be to exclude the option completely by just not giving free roam Batmobile.

What I do think could be great is some sort of chase, similar to Batman Begins, or a race against time, in the Batmobile. I think this could be an incredibly awesome way to spice up the game and expand has you've said. This portion of the game would be incredibly controlled in the sense that maybe you have one or two options of how to get there but you're never going to be able to take a path that will harm civilians, I don't know how this could be achieved, maybe on the outskirts of Gotham or some sort of mountain road.

What I'm asking for in the next Batman, isn't complete linearity, because even at points in Arkham Asylum you had the option to do things in different order and the cut scenes were adjusted accordingly. Such as in the Botanical garden, if you go straight to where Harley Quinns prints lead, Joker kills a guard. If you go and turn off the power first, Joker whines about being one step ahead and there is no guard killed in the cut scene. Something like this, but on a larger scale, could be awesome. Such as the option to choose which criminal to take down first, like someone said. A gang controlled Gotham could be great. This would allow for only certain areas to be open at once and in small portions. Larger than those given to us in Arkham Asylum, but again, still small enough to allow at least the same graphics and the same attention to the small details. This could also allow the player to, at points that order will not effect the story, to choose which gang they want to take down first or where they want to go. This will make people feel like they have more freedom but not take away from the very story oriented feel of the first game.

Finally, I think having missions indoors would be great, especially fighting through Wayne Tower. It would allow for the same level of detail as the first but, in a fresh environment. I don't mean have the whole game take place here, or any other one building, but have these points in the game where you do visit these places so it does have that crawling through vents and hiding in the roof aspect that a lot of people do like.

[blades of athena]

Hopefully, a Batman Beyond game. I would love to have a free-roaming Gotham City game utilizing Terry's high tech gadgets and Batmobile.

i never really liked that searies at all.

[stoobytoons]

I agree, Arkham asylum has been done, and the series does need to change places. Certainly to Gotham. I don't think setting the game in Arkham would make for a very exciting game at all because, yeah, it's been done so now the whole mystery and exploration factor is gone.

You make a good point with Batman Begins suspending disbelief and having Batman tear through roof tops and busy streets, but then again, there wasn't any chance someone in the audience was going to yell "Turn left and hit that pedestrian!" which is exactly what would happen if you gave that same person control of it in a game. I'm not trying to sound like a **** but it kind of is a deal breaker for anyone who really knows Batman. Batman wouldn't kill anyone under any circumstances, no matter what, he also, wouldn't just settle for "Oh I hit that guy but he's not dead, so whatever". The only way I can see around this is by having an instant game over like someone said, but by having something like that it's just going to be upsetting when it accidentally happens, which I think there would be ample opportunity for, so the easily solution in my eyes would be to exclude the option completely by just not giving free roam Batmobile.

What I do think could be great is some sort of chase, similar to Batman Begins, or a race against time, in the Batmobile. I think this could be an incredibly awesome way to spice up the game and expand has you've said. This portion of the game would be incredibly controlled in the sense that maybe you have one or two options of how to get there but you're never going to be able to take a path that will harm civilians, I don't know how this could be achieved, maybe on the outskirts of Gotham or some sort of mountain road.

What I'm asking for in the next Batman, isn't complete linearity, because even at points in Arkham Asylum you had the option to do things in different order and the cut scenes were adjusted accordingly. Such as in the Botanical garden, if you go straight to where Harley Quinns prints lead, Joker kills a guard. If you go and turn off the power first, Joker whines about being one step ahead and there is no guard killed in the cut scene. Something like this, but on a larger scale, could be awesome. Such as the option to choose which criminal to take down first, like someone said. A gang controlled Gotham could be great. This would allow for only certain areas to be open at once and in small portions. Larger than those given to us in Arkham Asylum, but again, still small enough to allow at least the same graphics and the same attention to the small details. This could also allow the player to, at points that order will not effect the story, to choose which gang they want to take down first or where they want to go. This will make people feel like they have more freedom but not take away from the very story oriented feel of the first game.

Finally, I think having missions indoors would be great, especially fighting through Wayne Tower. It would allow for the same level of detail as the first but, in a fresh environment. I don't mean have the whole game take place here, or any other one building, but have these points in the game where you do visit these places so it does have that crawling through vents and hiding in the roof aspect that a lot of people do like.

You have some good ideas here! I wanted to respond to the Batmobile issue with an idea I just had:

Let's remove the "Batman is a rockstar in Gotham" element. When people see him, it should be a spectacle of fear and mystery and legend -- it definitely shouldn't be a common place occurrence where civilians see the Batmobile; it's not a police car, after all. So my suggestion is that when the Batmobile goes tearing down the street, Gothamites will hear him coming from at least a block away. They'll point and gawk and and say things like, "Oh my God! It's HIM!!" They'll be clearing the way before you even get the chance to run into him.
So, the issue that should be addressed isn't so much the means of travel but the intelligence of the city's inhabitants... or their common sense, really.
Batman running running the risk of hitting pedestrians is something that thinking folks would actually consider. After all, there are books about "How to Become Batman" and shows behind the science of the Caped Crusader. Again, just don't give them the chance of being hit. And should the player try to do a GTA and run the 'mobile down the sidewalk, there should be major consequences -- Batman becomes criminal and is hunted down. By dozens of cop cars, no less.
Another option is to have a radar in the Batmobile that would auto-slow when pedestrians might be in the way. It's explainable and believable enough for Batman -- it could work for the game.

Also, I really like the dynamic of having gang wars happening between major villains.
Saints Row did it great by having a tug-o-war over territories where you could take control of the territory, but other gangs could just as easily regain control later. This sort of thing could be implemented in the Batman sequel as well only introducing a third, "neutral" element where Batman has cleaned up that territory.

[fatalitymaster]

Bottom ine is a sandbox game wouldn't work, they need to do exactly what they did with AA in the sense that it has small areas that you can roam around in but have the main story and plot function in the buildings, sewers etc.
Like I said before the sequel should be exactly the same as AA but set in a small enclosed part of Gotham City and then maybe have it open up a little more when you finish the game so that you have the freedom to roam around and find the secrets that you have missed or couldn't reach previously..

they could easily make it so that they close most of Gotham City off because its too dangerous for the sevillains so that Batman has a limited area to roam through and than go through buildings and sewers to push the story forward. No need for any batmobils or batwings just on foot like AA and have the gameplay exactly like AA with a mix of small free roam areas outside and platforming through the buildings and other areas.

[kalle90]

You have some good ideas here! I wanted to respond to the Batmobile issue with an idea I just had:

Let's remove the "Batman is a rockstar in Gotham" element. When people see him, it should be a spectacle of fear and mystery and legend -- it definitely shouldn't be a common place occurrence where civilians see the Batmobile; it's not a police car, after all. So my suggestion is that when the Batmobile goes tearing down the street, Gothamites will hear him coming from at least a block away. They'll point and gawk and and say things like, "Oh my God! It's HIM!!" They'll be clearing the way before you even get the chance to run into him.
So, the issue that should be addressed isn't so much the means of travel but the intelligence of the city's inhabitants... or their common sense, really.
Batman running running the risk of hitting pedestrians is something that thinking folks would actually consider. After all, there are books about "How to Become Batman" and shows behind the science of the Caped Crusader. Again, just don't give them the chance of being hit. And should the player try to do a GTA and run the 'mobile down the sidewalk, there should be major consequences -- Batman becomes criminal and is hunted down. By dozens of cop cars, no less.
Another option is to have a radar in the Batmobile that would auto-slow when pedestrians might be in the way. It's explainable and believable enough for Batman -- it could work for the game.

Also, I really like the dynamic of having gang wars happening between major villains.
Saints Row did it great by having a tug-o-war over territories where you could take control of the territory, but other gangs could just as easily regain control later. This sort of thing could be implemented in the Batman sequel as well only introducing a third, "neutral" element where Batman has cleaned up that territory.

I think that jumping away part would be too predictable and awkward.

Actually the civilians wouldn't even have to escape. Just go indoors.

Imagine the opening cutscene. It's a dark and rainy night in Gotham. The doors of Arkham are opened and criminals soon start to crawl into Gotham. People panic, police are evacuating them and trying to fight the criminals. Most civilians who can't escape lock themselves inside buildings. Suddenly you hear someone like The Riddler or Ra's talking through a speakerphone to the city. They act like Joker acted in AA. Perhaps in the Wayne Enterprise building.
- Riddler could say something like: "The fate of Gotham and these people rests on your smarts and speed bat. The clock is ticking" Then he could give a riddle that points you to your first mission.
- Ra's could just be logical otherwise. Perhaps testing and trying to convert Batman. "You can't win". This could be more freeroam "Save Gotham anyway you please" option.

Villains and their thugs create chaos in the city forming alliances and battling with each other: Robbing places, destroying stuff, intimidating and killing the few people left on streets and poorly barricaded houses... Batman has to stop all that. I don't think it would be too bad to be able to knock a few civilians unconscious, although there could be cutscenes in which the people get to safety.

Crimes happening everywhere, thugs everywhere. Wayne Manor and Batcave would be your only safehouse, unless when a gang of thugs try to destroy or conquer it. Maybe you'd had to clear Arkham so you can arrest the villains for good, maybe defending police station would make the city able to have extra police... Traits for buildings. I don't see a lack of intensity.

"And you thought Arkham was hell"

[stoobytoons]

Bottom ine is a sandbox game wouldn't work, they need to do exactly what they did with AA in the sense that it has small areas that you can roam around in but have the main story and plot function in the buildings, sewers etc.
Like I said before the sequel should be exactly the same as AA but set in a small enclosed part of Gotham City and then maybe have it open up a little more when you finish the game so that you have the freedom to roam around and find the secrets that you have missed or couldn't reach previously..

they could easily make it so that they close most of Gotham City off because its too dangerous for the sevillains so that Batman has a limited area to roam through and than go through buildings and sewers to push the story forward. No need for any batmobils or batwings just on foot like AA and have the gameplay exactly like AA with a mix of small free roam areas outside and platforming through the buildings and other areas.

Hahah! There's no "bottom line" in any of that. It's just a repeat. Bottom line is a repeat experience on a new map would be the least amount of bang for your buck.

[fatalitymaster]

Hahah! There's no "bottom line" in any of that. It's just a repeat. Bottom line is a repeat experience on a new map would be the least amount of bang for your buck.

Yeah well they can't change it up too much because they will ruin the formula that works perfectly now. Obviously they would improve things like the combat as much as they can and add new gadgets but the gameplay could practically be the same as AA has but in a small closed off part of Gotham................Whats wrong with that. New story in a new surrounding with the same game mechanics.

I don't see why you would object to that.

[kalle90]

Yeah well they can't change it up too much because they will ruin the formula that works perfectly now. Obviously they would improve things like the combat as much as they can and add new gadgets but the gameplay could practically be the same as AA has but in a small closed off part of Gotham................Whats wrong with that. New story in a new surrounding with the same game mechanics.

I don't see why you would object to that.

Because some want more than just recycled and experienced material, which is like DLC. Or what L4D2 is doing :hmm:

I don't see a point in improving combat. It's already so well done, changes would probably make it just weird. We've already seen the linear level design too, there's not much Rocksteady can move around to make it feel completely unique. Basically the gameplay is so good Rocksteady should focus on expanding instead of improving.

Personally I feel a closed off part of Gotham could work, but there are many problems. I don't want Gotham in miniature scale, I don't want invisible walls, I don't want to see 2 different Gothams if some later game uses Gotham again. I don't want to feel that a part of level feels exactly like some part in Arkham felt like.

Most of all, Arkham is an amazing use of license, but not near perfect. Arkham Asylum is like 1 comic or animated series story. A perfect Batman videogame would use everything releated with Batman. All Batman abilities and gadgets, all the friends and villains, the entire Gotham. Like all the comics, animated series and movies combined.

It's like Spiderman 1 vs. Spiderman 2. Spiderman 2 is better than Spiderman 1 in every aspect. Spiderman 2 actually makes me feel like Spiderman.

[fatalitymaster]

Because some want more than just recycled and experienced material, which is like DLC. Or what L4D2 is doing :hmm:

I don't see a point in improving combat. It's already so well done, changes would probably make it just weird. We've already seen the linear level design too, there's not much Rocksteady can move around to make it feel completely unique. Basically the gameplay is so good Rocksteady should focus on expanding instead of improving.

Personally I feel a closed off part of Gotham could work, but there are many problems. I don't want Gotham in miniature scale, I don't want invisible walls, I don't want to see 2 different Gothams if some later game uses Gotham again. I don't want to feel that a part of level feels exactly like some part in Arkham felt like.

Most of all, Arkham is an amazing use of license, but not near perfect. Arkham Asylum is like 1 comic or animated series story. A perfect Batman videogame would use everything releated with Batman. All Batman abilities and gadgets, all the friends and villains, the entire Gotham. Like all the comics, animated series and movies combined.

It's like Spiderman 1 vs. Spiderman 2. Spiderman 2 is better than Spiderman 1 in every aspect. Spiderman 2 actually makes me feel like Spiderman.

I agree that they should expand on things as well as improve bits like more gadgets and stuff but I wouldn't want the whole of Gotham as the game because it would be just like a sandbox GTA and that would suck because I don't like those games. Having a sandbox game for batman would ruin the perfectness of AA.

I obviously do want the sequel to be bigger and better but a sandbox game would be a mistake.

[stoobytoons]

I agree that they should expand on things as well as improve bits like more gadgets and stuff but I wouldn't want the whole of Gotham as the game because it would be just like a sandbox GTA and that would suck because I don't like those games. Having a sandbox game for batman would ruin the perfectness of AA.

I obviously do want the sequel to be bigger and better but a sandbox game would be a mistake.

Well, there are a lot of people that do like sandbox games. And there are plenty of linear Batman games already. So, why not take a chance with something new for Batman gaming? It's not going to hurt ya, I promise.

[kalle90]

Surely a sandbox Batman could try to be more intense. It wouldn't be like GTA with very loose story: "You completed a mission, congratulations. Now go do something else or start the next mission by walking into that red blip"

Everything would be Batman important. There wouldn't really be "sidemissions" or useless "hanging around". Just different gangsters and crimes everywhere for Batman to solve and stop. Riddles could be the main tool guiding you through the "main story", they never really end or begin like the missions in GTA. A la GTA some missions could also be set in buildings like Arkham, Wayne Manor or Wayne Enterprise and some random banks and apartments.

A riddle like "Chaos helps prisoners escape and makes sure the police can't stop the chaos" would lead you to Arkham that Joker is controlling. Once you've beaten him, you find an another note that says "The agent is only a pawn, he isn't needed if the law is dead", which in turn would make you rush to the police station that's under attack.

Most of all a dynamic gameworld unlike in GTA. There would be tons of hints, missions, thugs and traits around gameworld you could bump into in any order and everything would react accordingly. There wouldn't be artificial limits, just realistic ones (There is nowhere to put the criminals if the prison and asylum are ran by criminals. Civilians aren't unkillable because very few of them are to be seen)

Arhkham Asylum X 100. Instead of 1 corridor you have 100 streets, instead of 1 room you have 100 buildings, instead of 10 villains you have 100, instead of 1 "plotline" you have 100. It might be too ambitious for current consoles, but it could surely work. A story can easily be implemented to cover the entire Gotham.

[Mani-Man]

Free roam batman

VShD5B899Zw

[Bruce-Wayne]

You have some good ideas here! I wanted to respond to the Batmobile issue with an idea I just had:

Let's remove the "Batman is a rockstar in Gotham" element. When people see him, it should be a spectacle of fear and mystery and legend -- it definitely shouldn't be a common place occurrence where civilians see the Batmobile; it's not a police car, after all. So my suggestion is that when the Batmobile goes tearing down the street, Gothamites will hear him coming from at least a block away. They'll point and gawk and and say things like, "Oh my God! It's HIM!!" They'll be clearing the way before you even get the chance to run into him.
So, the issue that should be addressed isn't so much the means of travel but the intelligence of the city's inhabitants... or their common sense, really.
Batman running running the risk of hitting pedestrians is something that thinking folks would actually consider. After all, there are books about "How to Become Batman" and shows behind the science of the Caped Crusader. Again, just don't give them the chance of being hit. And should the player try to do a GTA and run the 'mobile down the sidewalk, there should be major consequences -- Batman becomes criminal and is hunted down. By dozens of cop cars, no less.
Another option is to have a radar in the Batmobile that would auto-slow when pedestrians might be in the way. It's explainable and believable enough for Batman -- it could work for the game.

Also, I really like the dynamic of having gang wars happening between major villains.
Saints Row did it great by having a tug-o-war over territories where you could take control of the territory, but other gangs could just as easily regain control later. This sort of thing could be implemented in the Batman sequel as well only introducing a third, "neutral" element where Batman has cleaned up that territory.

for the pedestrians issue your right but what happens when your chasing 2 face and a pedestrian gets in the way accidentally now you have cop cars chasing you and 2 face shooting

i think the batmobile needs a mechanism to swerve out of the way for stupid people
if you played driver for the original playstion the way they got out of the way was cheesy

[kalle90]

Free roam batman

VShD5B899Zw

Is that trying to be a negative comment?

Because I think that would be great. The problem with Batman&Robin is that it tried to be GTA3 on Playstation1. Way too ambitious for a license game, I don't know any other game that tried to do it. Gameplaywise it was a lot more varied than Driver2 for example.

But the concept of Batman&Robin was great. "Open" Gotham, criminals roaming around beating up civilians, handful of buildings you could enter, lots of detective work included, Batman could fight, glide and use gadgets and batmobile freely. There were RPG elements as in you could use Robin or Batgirl with their strength and weaknesses. There was a timelimit and lots of dynamic missions involved (If you failed this one, you could try another one). You even had to press a seperate button to run just like in Arkham Asylum.

Imagining that on current-gen consoles. Over 6 times the power, over 10 times the disc space...



As for the civilian issue. I just say put 99% of them in houses and evacuate. The rest are involved with missions.

[stoobytoons]

for the pedestrians issue your right but what happens when your chasing 2 face and a pedestrian gets in the way accidentally now you have cop cars chasing you and 2 face shooting

i think the batmobile needs a mechanism to swerve out of the way for stupid people
if you played driver for the original playstion the way they got out of the way was cheesy

Well, pedestrians are a liability. Most likely when gun fire is echoing through the streets, people duck for cover. I'm thinking that's what would happen here. Simple animations of people ducking into allies is all it would take to answer the question, "Hey where did the whole city's inhabitants go??":thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

[kalle90]

Well, pedestrians are a liability. Most likely when gun fire is echoing through the streets, people duck for cover. I'm thinking that's what would happen here. Simple animations of people ducking into allies is all it would take to answer the question, "Hey where did the whole city's inhabitants go??":thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

Am I invisible? :nut:

Just evacuate or put people inside houses. That can be shown in a cutscene. You only see them in-game a few times at times you can't kill them ie. hostages in a bank. Knocking them unconscious might even be good for their safety :whistle:

Script can explain everything. I believe a citywide emergency is better setup than normal time

[stoobytoons]

Am I invisible? :nut:

Just evacuate or put people inside houses. That can be shown in a cutscene. You only see them in-game a few times at times you can't kill them ie. hostages in a bank. Knocking them unconscious might even be good for their safety :whistle:

Script can explain everything. I believe a citywide emergency is better setup than normal time

Who said that?? hehe jk

Look, the pedestrians are a small issue. Certainly one that shouldn't break the chances of a great sandbox Gotham game. I think we've outlined some solid ways in which it can be addressed and I think we can move on to another issue.

So!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Moving on.


Assuming in a sandbox game, Batman can go back to the Batcave at will, how would that be incorporated into the game play as an objective? What could he do there?
Also, would he be able to change into Bruce Wayne?
What sort of objectives could Bruce Wayne have?
Would he need to be undercover all the time or could he just be Bruce Wayne?
What sort of freedoms would the players like?

Ok. Go!

[Sir Legendhead]

Assuming in a sandbox game, Batman can go back to the Batcave at will, how would that be incorporated into the game play as an objective? What could he do there?
Also, would he be able to change into Bruce Wayne?
What sort of objectives could Bruce Wayne have?
Would he need to be undercover all the time or could he just be Bruce Wayne?
What sort of freedoms would the players like?I'd like to see a cutscene (or several) of Batman without the mask, but Bruce Wayne gameplay would pretty much suck.

That covers the first four questions. As far as the last one, I'd like to see some kind of limited free roam that doesn't take away from the already established gameplay concept. Wouldn't really even have to be free roam. Just some driving and / or flying scenes would be good.

edit: Ooh, wait, I came up with a good idea for Bruce Wayne gameplay. Cutscenes with dialogue options like in Mass Effect. That would work.

[stoobytoons]

I'd like to see a cutscene (or several) of Batman without the mask, but Bruce Wayne gameplay would pretty much suck.

That covers the first four questions. As far as the last one, I'd like to see some kind of limited free roam that doesn't take away from the already established gameplay concept. Wouldn't really even have to be free roam. Just some driving and / or flying scenes would be good.

Fair enough.

Anyone with an objective view point on the questions and the sandbox gameplay, please?

[Sir Legendhead]

Fair enough.

Anyone with an objective view point on the questions and the sandbox gameplay, please?Heh, that actually was an objective viewpoint -- you might have missed the edit I added in there.

Anyway, I'm not seeing the appeal of playing as Bruce Wayne, unless it's centered around cutscene dialogue options like I just mentioned. What would Bruce do exactly? I don't see how sneaking around without the Bat-suit would be any more interesting than sneaking around in it. The concept of Bruce Wayne gameplay reminds me of the horrid Banner scenes in one of the older Hulk games, to be brutally honest.

[kalle90]

Batman has his gadgets and vehicles in Batcave. He could refill some of the better gear there and change or repair vehicles. There could be a training room, ability to heal, and a computer to check news, satellite feeds and solve clues. Alfred could also have some hints or secrets for you. Perhaps you could also research and create new technology. Maybe change to Robin. If the game would implement some sort of turf wars, maybe enemies would sometimes invade Wayne Manor.

Bruce Wayne gameplay is something I necessarily wouldn't put in the next game. I feel Rocksteady has enough problems making sandbox gameplay as it is. Bruce Wayne gameplay could just be screaming Bruce Banner again: "I want to be BATMAAAAN!!! Not some dude who can only walk and punch!" With real Bruce Wayne gameplay there'd have to be some really good dialogue options and NPCs

My opinion on freedom is clear - total. Design the game so it stays intense and not artificial.

[stoobytoons]

Heh, that actually was an objective viewpoint -- you might have missed the edit I added in there.

Anyway, I'm not seeing the appeal of playing as Bruce Wayne, unless it's centered around cutscene dialogue options like I just mentioned. What would Bruce do exactly? I don't see how sneaking around without the Bat-suit would be any more interesting than sneaking around in it. The concept of Bruce Wayne gameplay reminds me of the horrid Banner scenes in one of the older Hulk games, to be brutally honest.

Haven't played Mass Effect, unfortunately, so I can't really relate to the reference, but if it's like Knights of the Old Republic, I can see that.

Well here's a "for example" for Bruce: Let's say he needs to get info on a drop but all of his informants have been exhausted and the only way he can find out where it is on the Gotham map would be to go under cover in a non-threatening way... we've seen this with Matches Malone.
Another example might be training sequences. Why have Bruce dressed up like Batman when he's lifting weights to work on body points... which of course would translate into stronger strikes, or whatever.
Bruce could also use his public persona. Obviously, Batman walking into someplace like the Iceberg Lounge would be a spectacle. But Bruce Wayne attending a gala event would make sense, especially if he's able to catch whispers from Cobblepot in the corner of the room via a sonic enhancer bud in Bruce's ear.

That's 3 simple ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure being in development for 2 years straight would yield some stronger examples. Point is, there's potential to break up the action a bit and give the character more depth than we've seen previously.

[Sir Legendhead]

Haven't played Mass Effect, unfortunately, so I can't really relate to the reference, but if it's like Knights of the Old Republic, I can see that.

Well here's a "for example" for Bruce: Let's say he needs to get info on a drop but all of his informants have been exhausted and the only way he can find out where it is on the Gotham map would be to go under cover in a non-threatening way... we've seen this with Matches Malone.
Another example might be training sequences. Why have Bruce dressed up like Batman when he's lifting weights to work on body points... which of course would translate into stronger strikes, or whatever.
Bruce could also use his public persona. Obviously, Batman walking into someplace like the Iceberg Lounge would be a spectacle. But Bruce Wayne attending a gala event would make sense, especially if he's able to catch whispers from Cobblepot in the corner of the room via a sonic enhancer bud in Bruce's ear.

That's 3 simple ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure being in development for 2 years straight would yield some stronger examples. Point is, there's potential to break up the action a bit and give the character more depth than we've seen previously.Yeah, KOTOR is a good example of what I mean. I can't see the average player being interested in Bruce Wayne gameplay, but the dialogue options as Bruce could work pretty well in (most of) the scenarios you just mentioned.

I don't think lifting weights as Bruce would capture the attention of mainstream gamers, though. Didn't they try that in GTA: San Andreas? I don't know about you, but I skipped that part.

[stoobytoons]

Yeah, KOTOR is a good example of what I mean. I can't see the average player being interested in Bruce Wayne gameplay, but the dialogue options as Bruce could work pretty well in (most of) the scenarios you just mentioned.

I don't think lifting weights as Bruce would capture the attention of mainstream gamers, though. Didn't they try that in GTA: San Andreas? I don't know about you, but I skipped that part.

I just find that randomly and quite frankly "all of the sudden" having some combat upgrade when he probably would have it already if a player wasn't hitting "select" and moving to a screen and selecting it after so many thugs were beaten pulls me out of the story about. It's on par with Batman actually saying "I should press the Right Trigger if I want to throw a Batarang." Get what I mean?
I actually didn't skip the weightlifting in San Andreas. But either way, the option should be there; it's part of who Batman is. He's gotta train to stay at the top of his game, and I feel that the game play should reflect that.

[Sir Legendhead]

I just find that randomly and quite frankly "all of the sudden" having some combat upgrade when he probably would have it already if a player wasn't hitting "select" and moving to a screen and selecting it after so many thugs were beaten pulls me out of the story about. It's on par with Batman actually saying "I should press the Right Trigger if I want to throw a Batarang." Get what I mean?
I actually didn't skip the weightlifting in San Andreas. But either way, the option should be there; it's part of who Batman is. He's gotta train to stay at the top of his game, and I feel that the game play should reflect that.I can respect that being your personal preference and it's a more realistic way of doing things, but I still don't think it would appeal to the majority of players (on consoles, that is, I know next to nothing about what PC gamers might like). The average console player just doesn't have the patience or the time for that kind of detailed level building.

[stoobytoons]

I can respect that being your personal preference and it's a more realistic way of doing things, but I still don't think it would appeal to the majority of players (on consoles, that is, I know next to nothing about what PC gamers might like). The average console player just doesn't have the patience or the time for that kind of detailed level building.

Is that why Fallout 3 was such a huge hit? How about Fable? :lol:

What ELSE ya got?

[Sir Legendhead]

Is that why Fallout 3 was such a huge hit? How about Fable? :lol:

What ELSE ya got?Did either of those games have weightlifting scenes, Stooby?

[stoobytoons]

Did either of those games have weightlifting scenes, Stooby?

No. Just wood chopping (which I believe did the same thing as weight lifting for your character's stamina), paying into a church, and tempering swords for Fable.

Let's see, in Fallout 3, there was the option of building certain items out of bits of junk that you collected along the way. There are many other avenues to this and Fable. I'm not sure I need to go on. It's just how they apply to the game.

You may have been one of the few people that didn't appreciate the weightlifting in San Andreas.

Viddy this: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/gta4/review.html?page=2

Yes, that's right. CJ needs to stay in shape if he's to perform at his best, which is a new feature for the GTA series. The game keeps track of a lot of different statistics that increase and decrease as you play the game. Your physical fitness is the most overt statistic, as you're able to work out in gyms to work on your muscle and stamina ratings, and you'll have to occasionally eat to prevent your muscle stat from occasionally draining a bit.

It's a clever idea and it adds game play elements to the Batman game. I'm not saying weightlifting is the only thing Bruce Wayne should be capable of doing in the Batcave, but you needed a for instance.

So... again. What else ya go? :D

[stoobytoons]

I should also add that not every player of Arkham Asylum is interested in collecting all 260 (or however many there were) Riddler trophies. Hell, you don't even have to upgrade in the game if you don't wish to. It's just great to have options to build on.

[fatalitymaster]

A sandbox game for batman isn't the answer imo because I can't think of one sandbox game that is that good apart from some would say GTA but other than that there isn't a sandbox game that is awesome. Being a sandbox effects the graphics and presentation of the game so it would look half as good as AA.

Why try and change something that is perfect already. The next Batman game should be similar to AA in the way that it is laid out and functions but have a new story, new characters and new gadgets, why would the same formula be so bad loads of great games use the same systems from one to the next and GTA is one of them. It would be new and feel like a new game because it would have new characters, new story and new gadgets. The only thing that would be pretty much the same is the gameplay baring some of the new gadgets and new combat stuff they add.

Obviously I forgot to mention that it would be in a new surrounding area like a small portion of Gotham or somewhere different that isn't massive so it doesn't have to be a sandbox. I wouldn't mind having a mission in the batmobil to drive to second part ofd the game then when you finish it becomes free roam like AA is now so that you can revisit parts for secrets ect. I just think having a sandbox is not needed when you ould just have to drive to different parts of the city that open up once you reach a certain point but until you finish the game you can go back or revisit the last part of gotham.

I hope that makes sense lol In short you start in one part of Gotham and then once that part is finished you have a mini mission where you are driving to the next part with criminal shooting you ect then you can do the second half of the game in a different part of Gotham then the final battle could be at the top of a sky scrapper or something. Once you have completed the game both halves of the game are opened but its still not the whole of Gotham because it would be too big for you to go back over and find the secrets you missed first time around.

[Sir Legendhead]

Y'know, I've got an idea. What if we incorporated some of the fighting challenges into the story mode and used that as a way to upgrade Batman's physical abilities?

We could have Bruce Wayne sparring against different characters like Nightwing and Robin for experience, and that framework could even be used for online vs. modes outside of the story itself. That would interest me a lot more than a timed button press minigame. Those might've worked in Fable II, but I'm not sure they'd fit in as well here.

[stoobytoons]

Y'know, I've got an idea. What if we incorporated some of the fighting challenges into the story mode and used that as a way to upgrade Batman's physical abilities?

We could have Bruce Wayne sparring against different characters like Nightwing and Robin for experience, and that framework could even be used for online vs. modes outside of the story itself. That would interest me a lot more than a timed button press minigame. Those might've worked in Fable II, but I'm not sure they'd fit in as well here.

Hey! Now you're thinkin!! Good idea. :D

It'd make for a perfect reason for multiplayer. Y'know you could even incorporate the others in the Bat family in mulitplayer modes too. Sort of a turf war prevention. Kinda like the cops and robbers mode in GTA 4.

[DravinClaw]

if you really want a Batman/GTA game pick up GTA4 mod it and poof there you go but if they went the route of Infamous's city wise that would be great but first you need a great story then work on the combat and if they do make a sequel ill buy the CE as long as they add 2 things an art book and more on the dvd and maybe since you did the batarang how about a bat grapple.

[Scaretheweans]

TBH some studiio exec will probably muck it up and we'll get a bad game again LOL.

I dunno about sandbox graphics, GTA 4 was pretty impressive, just as much as BAA for me, but more focussed and tighetr city with more inside environments would work well for me, I just cant see anything else other thn arkham again, no where else in Gotham is that interesting to set a game there