Hidden weapons in this game

[KSingh77]

In IW there was hidden special weapons like the Red Greasal pistol,the Boltcaster that set people and things on fire,the smg which fired at a high rapid rate.Sould hidden special weapons be in this game?

[3nails4you]

Not to mention the Dragon's Tooth Sword that looked nothing like the Dragon's Tooth Sword. I think a ps20 would be a nice hidden weapon that other ammo works for.

[Blade_hunter]

There is a thread about unique weapons.
In DX IW they wanted to make the dragon's tooth like a katana and the chinese weapon where the model was taken was this one
http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~msb46/prod_sword4.jpg
This is a Jian, I hope people find a straight resemblance with the original dragon's tooth

As for unique weapons I expect something special even experimental.
I prefer to see experimental weapons even if we could find some customized ones ...

[3nails4you]

In IW the DTS was the same as an energy blade. It looked much MUCH more amazing (and like that picture) in DX.

[Sabretooth]

I like the idea, but it faces one problem, ammo. In IW, the one-ammo-pool trick meant that regardless of what bizarre ammunition your weapon uses, you can always fire if you have the ammo. In DX3, the ammo for a hidden weapon would have to be rare or hidden as well (for eg. spider mines for the Widowmaker, fire darts for the Boltcaster etc.).

And I'm not really in the favour of seeing some super-rare ammo lying around in the cabinet of a terrorist without the weapon itself anywhere near it, it's presence there making no sense whatsoever.

[Irate Iguana]

The problem these hidden weapons have is that they more often than not tend to become overpowered. In order to set them apart from the other weapons they gain special properties that can't be gained any other way, or they gain very much improved stats over what can be achieved with mods. You pretty much have to use them if you don't want to deliberately gimp yourself. I'd much rather see the system from DX. Just have standard weapons that can be made into something special with the correct weapon mods.

[Igoe]

Remember, "hidden" or "special" doesn't always necessarily mean "more powerful" or "uses special ammo"

Hidden weapons could simply be weapons with some mods all ready attached (like a scope and greater accuracy) or could even be weapons that act exactly the same but have a unique skin (camo painted shotgun, custom designed pistol)

I think the idea of hidden weapons lies more in the "unique" aspect and not the "power" aspect. The fact that the weapon is a ONE TIME OCCURRENCE and cannot be lifted from generic NPCs is reward enough. Makes you feel special because no one else has your particular gun, or that your gun looks cooler than 99% of the grunts' guns.

It adds to the whole RPG element because you can choose to replace the vanilla weapon with the custom-looking counterpart. It rewards exploration or conversation skills, so players who choose a PARTICULAR ROUTE or accomplish a goal in a PARTICULAR WAY can see a tangible result. It may not drastically change gameplay, but it gives the player the illusion of customization and it only costs the developers the time to mod the original weapon skin, or change a base value in the weapon stats.

I think it would be a shameful waste if there aren't at least 1 or 2 custom unique weapons in the game. In an age where you can drag a slider to make a gray skin black or a gunmetal skin silver, I find it hard to believe a developer wouldn't take the time to stick in a few esoteric easter eggs for the veteran RPG fanbase.

I'm also aware that to 99.9% of the people reading this post this is old news and nothing they themselves haven't all ready deduced and expected from newer games, but since no one else has said it, I get to be first.

Tl;dr: unique weapons are too easy to avoid and if they aren't in DX3 somebody dun screwed up.

[Blade_hunter]

Yes special weapons doesn't mean overpowered, there is some things that can be done differently, perhaps the weapon can "overclass" their standard counterparts in some domains, but that doesn't mean the weapon is overpowered, also the very rare ammo, for the special weapon ... that means we have a weapon, but we can't use it ...
About the special ammo it depends of the power of it, if it's a rocket that can release multiple missiles, the ammo should be rare, but if it's a caseless bullet, the ammo should appear in good quantity ...

Also we could find bosses that use special super customized weapons, that means they can have that power during one battle if we do it.
Or even some specialized guards.
But some persons could find those weapons in hidden armories, and secret locations.
If the game have great levels there is a lot of possibilities for the level designers to make passages and locations that could be tricky to find and access and reward the player with those special items and weapons, this is what many games did after all even Deus Ex.
Swimming In Deus Ex allowed to find some cool treasures :)

[PenguinsFriend]

Or... we can simply find a... Skull Gun!

[Irate Iguana]

Tl;dr: unique weapons are too easy to avoid and if they aren't in DX3 somebody dun screwed up.

So you just want to find a pink pistol instead of the standard black? If that is what you mean with hidden weapons then go right ahead.


Swimming In Deus Ex allowed to find some cool treasures :)

Treasure that were general like weapon mods or upgrade canisters. Not a special Sniper Rifle. Most of your suggestions do sound a lot like they are, or very easily can be, overpowered in comparison to the standard weapon.

[Jerion]

This brings to mind the DX Plasma Rifle. It was a heavy weapon that took up a lot of slots in the inventory, couldn't be found in many places, neither could its ammo, and it only did noticeable damage to people, not bots. It seemed that its value was in the rarity and cool factor, not in the usefulness factor. Just because a special weapon can only be found in one or at most, two very out of the way and hidden places, doesn't mean it's gotta be more overpowering or useful. If the plasma rifle has taught us anything, it's that it can even be less useful than normal weapons. Really, if you just forgo the coolness of the DTS in favor of a normal sword, you can be nearly as deadly and save an inventory slot.

[foxberg]

An equivalent of BFG would be nice...

[3nails4you]

Exploration could also unveil some weapons early, e.g. the sawed-off shotgun in the sunken ship at Liberty Island.

[Blade_hunter]

Yes they are only weapon mods or canisters, but made fully customized weapons / unique weapons isn't a machine gun that kills people in one shot and with 100% accuracy and 0 recoil, with 0 seconds of reload time; this is what I call overpowered, also your custom gun in Deus Ex is superior compared to the enemies weapons, this never made your weapon overpowered, just better in comparison to the non upgraded version.
If you have an overkill weapon like the LAW, that weapon and the ammo if it's a reusable weapon would be rare, but that's only the case if the weapon itself is ultrapowerful.
This is what I mean if you have a weapon that is super powerful its ammo would be rare, if the weapon uses an ammo that make a correct damage, depending of the weapon who fires it, the ammo will be in good quantity.

For example if you have a missile launcher, a super railgun, the ammo would be rare, if you have an assault rifle, a shotgun or a pistol the ammo will be plentiful even if it's an unique weapon or a fully customized one.
that's not a suggestion it's a comparison
powerful = rare ammo; powerless = plentiful ammo

I expect to see some enemies using some weapon prototypes, in Deus Ex some enemies had the Dragon's tooth but how much have them ?
A little number and they weren't the most dangerous foes ...
In Deus Ex the plasma rifle was intended to be the all around weapon and it didn't worked like it should work, the robots are resistant to it.
But Deus Ex has perhaps a similiar heritage of system shock 2, weapons that was intended to be good / great weapons and they were useless or had a very limited in use.
In SS2 exotic weapons and heavies were a great disappointment, the firsts of them were great, the crystal shard is in system shock 2 the Dragon's tooth equivalent, The grenade launcher was a bit the GEP gun equivalent.

And, yes exploration allow us to reveal weapons early and sometimes choose the correct answer in a conversation...

But unique weapons exits in many RPGs and some of them never removed the value to some others, even in some FPS.
The weapon prototype could have some inconvenients that the most common doesn't have.
You can have 2 assault guns one with better damage and the other with a lower damage, but perhaps the weaker weapon have more accuracy, less recoil and a better ROF.
really this doesn't make the game unbalanced since the enemies have good weapons and they are able to kill you.

[dixieflatline]

I think a classic / old weapon would make for a cool hidden weapon.

Like a mac-10, M60 or a hunting crossbow from the '90s or something. Or a good ole Desert Eagle.

[serrath]

You could have hidden one-time-use items. I just wish they'd add the World's Most Interesting Bomb from MDK (never gonna happen). It was a dancing Chinese food box that enemies would rush over to and watch right until it exploded and killed them all.

[Pyronox]

I think a classic / old weapon would make for a cool hidden weapon.

Like a mac-10, M60 or a hunting crossbow from the '90s or something. Or a good ole Desert Eagle.

X-bow is essential for shooting stuff underwater. Well guns CAN shoot underwater IRL,
but the range and damage would suck balls, so I'd just disable it in the game. Otherwise would b a waste of ammo.

Also, I want a pink deagle made out of nanobots that can become the sole of my shoe so if I get arrested they don't notice it. Unless it makes my sole pink...

[Blade_hunter]

There is underwater assault rifles, an assault rifle that can use underwater ammo could be a good special weapon ...

[Pyronox]

Well if it's target-seeking torpedo bullets sure, but the resistance created by water would slow a normal bullet down way too much.

[Irate Iguana]

The Russians developed that weapon (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as69-e.htm). It uses fin-stabilized darts. The range both below and above the surface leaves a lot to be desired.

[Pyronox]

The Russians developed that weapon (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as69-e.htm). It uses fin-stabilized darts. The range both below and above the surface leaves a lot to be desired.

So, it's a machine-crossbow-ish... thing?

[Blade_hunter]

They got a better one
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as95-e.htm
But the goal of special weapons is to have weapons that can be better in some domains and/or have functions that other weapons of the same kind doesn't have.
there is also dart pistols made by Russians, Americans and Germans, but I hope there is some divers in the game like the first deus ex.
In DX they have mini crossbows, but I think they should have underwater guns and even spear guns, spear guns because they are more common and can be used as a short - medium range silenced weapon.

It's not because we have some existing guns that have those functions, that we couldn't have a gun in Deus Ex that is completely special, that combine more functions.

For example a weapon with two barrels A drum for steel bolts and a standard clip for the bullets, to obtain a fictional futuristic weapon.

[LatwPIAT]

Desert Eagle.

...

There are so many things wrong with that gun, I don't even know where to begin. You might manage to justify it with mech-augs, but then you have to convince me most of your enemies conveniently carry around ammo for a gun they don't actually carry themselves.

[TrickyVein]

You could have hidden one-time-use items. I just wish they'd add the World's Most Interesting Bomb from MDK (never gonna happen). It was a dancing Chinese food box that enemies would rush over to and watch right until it exploded and killed them all.

or the world's smallest nuclear explosion. Good stuff. I wouldn't mind finding a secret weapon that either could only be used once (ps20) or only came with x number of rounds. The LAW was an inventory hog, but it was supermegagood in lots of hairy situations.

[Alex Jacobson]

A functional rocket rifle.

[Hertzila]

Regarding special/unique weaponry, couldn't they be more like customised standard-issue weapons? Like an assault rifle that is modular and thus its internal parts could be upgraded more than a standard ones. It could also have more possibility for extra parts (laser sight, dot sight, underbarrel shotgun, etc...). Would be essentially a normal gun but in the end it would become more powerful if given enough resources.

Ammo problems would also favor prototype energy weapons. Be it a sonic cannon, laser rifle or laser lightning gun (electrolaser) it could use standard electricity through batteries that could be recharged from high voltage plugs (for heavy machinery and electric cars). Or they could use bioenergy either by directly draining it or by converting it to normal electricity for the weapons batteries.

Also a launcher that could launch multiple different payloads would be nice. Like a GEP gun for example but with more than two ammo types.

[Blade_hunter]

Personally I hope some weapons could have much more ammo than 3 this even can give the opportunity to have an ammo prototypes who have chances to be rarer than the classics, but still available since a certain point of the game

[Hertzila]

Like the "Dragons Breath" shotgun ammo in Shifter? Those kinds of ammunition would be nice. For a small arms expert an EMP round for the worst bots. Or explosive bullets.
Though this requires that, like JC, Adam can carry a ton of different ammo with him otherwise all these special rounds could easily take more room than the player could allow.

[IOOI]

Yeah, it would be cool to see the effects of armor-piercing ammo on bots and mechanical bodyparts, at least. I'd want to see bots and augmented NPCs staggering and twitching if possible - with some holes in it... T2 style.

[Blade_hunter]

For example since shotguns and grenade launchers are the most versatile weapons IRL this could be reflected in Deus Ex 3, I mean IRL those weapons have a lot of varied cartridges, this may be the same in Deus Ex 3
I think ammo should have realistic effects on ennemies and on us too this is why localized damage gives all the consistence to the shooting, even have some separation in the robots this will reward some players to use tactics by firing some ammo into the weak points

[3nails4you]

Another good example was Far Cry 2. I was just driving through the wilderness randomly (it doesn't take much to entertain me) and saw a brush-hidden, boarded up cave. Inside was a gold AK. Now, it was no better than a normal AK, and the fact that it was gold did nothing for me. I don't think I shot it ONCE, but I made every effort to keep it for the rest of the game. Special weapons, even if pointless, can add a lot to the game. Just finding a way to beat the game while holding on to just that weapon was fun :D Maybe we could incorporate something like this into DX. By doing a certain optional mission, your reward could be some sort of traditional sword, or a rifle with cool drawings on it. While it may not do extra damage or anything, it could add a lot of enjoyment and realism to the game.

[Hertzila]

Good point about the versatility of those weapons. A few different ammo types would be nice to them (normal, slug, flechette*, vortex ring, WP, stun*, sabot etc..). Though then they should be portrayed with some weaknesses, otherwise everybody would just use them. Though inaccuracy of firing and possible explosive ammo backfiring could already be enough. And also grenade launchers could waste a lot of space in inventory. So on second thought, ignore that weakness point. (*= Grenade launcher specifically)

Why not give the player a possibility to also make a custom, nice looking weapon? FE helping a guy in a side-mission would reward you with the guy agreeing to paint/carve/whatever your weapon of choice with a style you choose. I'd most propably use it.