Enhanced difficulty settings might be the key.....

[kv29]

Loot limit (or some kind of encumbrance system)
Arrows types qty (mandatory)
Time limit
AI Awareness / toughtness (%)
AI can wake up after being blackjacked (random?)
Loot glint (y/n)
lockpicking method (3 at least)
WEATHER (all types & random?)

you name it....
Flexibility above all things, allow users configure them as they see fit, from casual gamers to hardcore fans.
I know is not an easy task to do, maps must be well balanced or the full thing collapses

[esme]

I'm sorry but I'm completely against time limits other than those imposed by patrolling AI

I've played FM's with time limits and I miss half the level in a rush to get to the end before the time limit expires, missing most of the things that make playing Thief so enjoyable in the process, the game controls me not me controlling the game

some of the other points sound reasonable though

[Hypevosa]

Way too many options, the game becomes too variable for players, and most options would go unused and be a waste of development time, at least from the vantage of the average player. Pandering to the 10% who want an encumberance system is not a good use of 100 work hours. Let people develop mods for the game if they want that experience, but don't waste the developers times with a thousand options in an option screen.

[ToMegaTherion]

I'm quite in favour of detaching the different elements of difficulty level into separate configurable levels (e.g. body count, guard quantity, loot requirement and so on can be individual set as Normal/Hard/Expert rather than one difficulty covering everything). Other than that I'm less inclined to ask the designers to waste too much time especially on optional gameplay mechanics. On the other hand I really don't see any reason why things like loot glint, lightgem, compass, arrow limit, thief shop goods, and so on, can't be configurable in an ini file.

[DarthEnder]

I'm sorry but I'm completely against time limits other than those imposed by patrolling AIThen you don't turn it on. That's kind of the whole point of the thread.

He's saying everyone plays how everyone wants to.

I'm fine with it.

It'd be cool if at the very least though the game gives out achievments for playing through the game with extra difficulties turned on. This would get people to try difficulties that they normally wouldn't.

[Captain567]

Although this sounds like the perfect solution for everyone's wishes, and all these threads, but it would never work.

The level designer would have to factor in every possible variable in the game difficulty and pander to every single kind of player. A map designer shouldn't be thinking "What if the player turns on waking guards?" when placing enemies, or "What if the player has set a low limit for water arrows?" when placing a torch, and so on.

That's why the Thief levels are so fantastic, there aren't many limits put on the player by the developer except for "don't kill anyone" on Expert, allowing the freedom to make the best map you can.

[Nate]

Loot limit (or some kind of encumbrance system)
Arrows types qty (mandatory)
Time limit
AI Awareness / toughtness (%)
AI can wake up after being blackjacked (random?)
Loot glint (y/n)
lockpicking method (3 at least)
WEATHER (all types & random?)

you name it....
Flexibility above all things, allow users configure them as they see fit, from casual gamers to hardcore fans.
I know is not an easy task to do, maps must be well balanced or the full thing collapses


Alright, here are my five cents on your option suggestions!

1) Loot limit/encumbrance system:

-I do like the idea of each piece of loot having an encumbrance value and Garrett only able to carry so much before suffering penalties....but I am almost certainly in the minority here. Punishing people for stealing would bug a lot of players.

-Having an encumbrance system in place for weapons, armor and equipment would make more sense. The more Garrett carries, the more penalties he suffers.....but there is a better way.

-The EASIEST way to fix all this is to simply have an equipment carry capacity slider setting (Easy/Medium/Hard/HardCore). So, on easy, players would be able to take a ton of arrows and items (things like flash bangs, holy water, mines, gas grenades) with them. However, on Hardcore, players would be limited to something like 12 arrows and one item carry capacity.

2: Arrow Quantity:

-Not really sure what you mean here. If you mean that players should be able to set the total amount of arrows they can carry, THEN I AGREE (see section 1 of my post)

3: Time limit:

-Sure, if that is what you like, go for it. I prefer experiencing the levels and hate being rushed unless it is part of the story.

4. AI Awareness / Toughtness (%)

-Pretty sure this will be part of the difficulty setting...pretty standard stuff.

5. AI can wake up after being blackjacked (random?)

-While I really do like the idea, it probably wouldn't be feasible. The randomness of guards waking up and sounding an alarm would seriously reduce the BJ's role...people would resort to killing more often. I would be more open to guards waking up from gas after 20 minutes then a smack on the head.

-That said, even though I have reservations, I wouldn't mind seeing guards waking up after a while or if another guard wakes them up (especially for gas knockouts).

6. Loot glint (y/n)

-NO! Make valuable stuff look valuable instead!

7. Lockpicking method (3 at least)

-Don't really care as long as there is some skill involved.

8. WEATHER (all types & random?)

-Would like to see weather effects (like wind/rain/thunder drowning out your noises, or lighting illuminating your position, or wet footprints alerting guards for the first couple of minutes when you get inside from the rain).

[kv29]

good points Nate.

Now, going back some posts, I know is not an easy task to do, but it will be a very rewarding effort.
Two words comes to my mind: REPLAYABILITY and LONGEVITY. Good for the gamers & good for the developers too (more sales).

About thief levels being so good, real life is not a tight bunch of events waiting in line for us to happen. Random is not a bad thing in a game like this, I strongly believe that allowing to configure the kind of elements we are talking here, we can get a richer & funnier gaming experience.

I can play some TDP or TMA levels by memory because I KNOW BEFOREHAND what will happen, where are the bad guys and how will they react to some events, all in a linear way of events. Is that funny? Hell, no. I expect MORE of it.

[ToMegaTherion]

If I understand things correctly, it is actually possible to turn on some sort of blackjack limits/kill limits/bodies discovered limits/ time limits on in Deadly Shadows, with some work.

[jtr7]

So many things people want should really be left to modding and cfg/ini file tweaks.

[hellwalker]

Time limits my balls !

[huzi73]

Pleas keep one point in mind, games that worry too much of the minority (this guy wants A, those three guys want B, oh, and that guy picking his nose in the corner would really only buy the game if it contains E,F,G and P,X,T ....or whatever ).

Games like these,which try to cover a broad spectrum of peoples wants/needs often end up being jack of all trade good at no one particular thing.What you're suggesting is possible, but is it feasible? How long will it take devs to create such a system? How much more units would the game sell if it used such a system? Would that justify the extra cost? Would that justify the extra development time?

If it does, then well and good, but if the ratio of game sales/cost+dev time is going to be lower, then why do it in the first place? Remember, A good game is not one which tries to do a lot of things, but rather a game which does what it's supposed to do right.

I mean, lets face it, T4 may not well be the best game ever made, but if its good or better, I'll happily buy it. But if devs try to make it thebest game ever, and keep on beating around the bush, the game will never be made because devs will keep on adding new features so that T4 can contend with other games which use those same features.(DUKE NUKEM FOREVER ANYONE??)

Just my 2c...

[Robin_G]

No savegames during mission in hard difficulty level could be a nice option.
"Think it over before you decide" must be the prime goal.

[AbysmalGale]

I'm pretty much against many of these choices. It's not NHL 2009 where you can turn on and off icing, penalties and offside, toggle period lengths etc. The only thing I think you should be able to choose in Thief are graphic and audio settings and whether you want to play on Normal, Hard or Expert. That's it.

I mean, how often would a thief be able to change the weather conditions before he's going on a mission? Or be able to regulate the intelligence of his opponents? I know, Thief isn't real life, but some things should be more realistic than others to keep the game interesting. If you are able to rule too much in the game, it gets boring fast.

[ToMegaTherion]

The point Huzi makes should be listened to. Essentially, the designers should put all the features they want into the game, in terms of gameplay mechanics, interface, objectives, and so on. They shouldn't implement things (or at least, not too many things) that they think a few people might appreciate. However there doesn't seem to be a good reason for them to fail to make it easy for the player to mess around with some of these settings. It doesn't even need to be as options in the game, they just need to make their config files easy to edit.

I would appreciate a little designer input on objectives, though, rather than make me work it out myself. For example, I am a fan of "only X blackjacks and kills per mission". However, if I don't know the layout of a mission, I don't really know what X should be, and so if they include things like this (as they did in Metal Age, or something similar in Deadly Shadows but didn't ever use it it) it'd be nice if they spent a little bit of time working out good default values for optional objectives. It can't really be a very time-consuming task.

[Shadow Blade]

While I do Like some of the options I personally just think there might be to many. Like it would be nice if you could choose custom for the difficulty setting but maybe just give the player a basic list of options eg.

Invintory amount: Low/Medium/High (eg 5 gas bombs being low. 15 gas bombs being high something kinda like this)

Guard strength: Low/Medium/High

Guard perception: Low/Medium/High manually ajust (eg40% being low perception 80% being high) The extra 20% for the pro's:cool:

Player Damage Resistance: Low/Medium/High

Number of Guards: Low/Medium/High

Guards Change Patrol routs: y/n

Time Limit: y/n manually ajust time limit (fill in the time you want to limit yourself to)

Maybe something basic like this but in actual fact a list like this could carry on for quite a while if you give all the difficulty settings. You could end up taking an hour just ajusting the difficulty instead of playing the game and I think many people would just give up and choose the provided difficulty if they saw a page or 2 just of settings

[huzi73]

KInda reminds me of just creating a character in spore/oblivion