Guards and torches

[Shadow Blade]

When guards find a body or you have been seen should guards be able to take torches off the walls (ones that can be removed and put back) and search for you and then put them back if they dont find you or should some guards be equipped with torches that have a limited life span (say a minute or so) that can be lit from the ones burning on the walls ( and if there are no lit torches in a close area they cant light it), also what if guards that carried torches where able to relite the torches you put out with your water arrows after a few minutes if they come across any ones that have been put out.:hmm: What do you guys think? Is it making the game to technical or could you see it working?

[esme]

carrying a torch on their belt that they light if it's too dark would be a lot easier that picking one out of the environment

[Shadow Blade]

carrying a torch on their belt that they light if it's too dark would be a lot easier that picking one out of the environment



That could work just as well and its simpler than a long coplicated process that has the potencial for bugs:thumb:

[huzi73]

Its been discussed, and it will be a step in the right direction

[Myth]

Yes. In general, it makes sense for guards to illuminate pitch black areas when they come across them during patrol routs. I mean, i'm no realism nazi, but IRL who in his right mind would walk in absolute darkness when torches are readily available?

[LightWarriorK]

Guards carrying torches was one of the best parts of TDS, in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind it either way, whether they're carrying a torch, have one unlit in their belt, or go and take one off the wall.

But in the latter two cases, I would prefer that they have to dedicate some attention to lighting the torch or pulling it out of the wall (time variant depending on difficulty setting), giving you a little bit of time to take advantage of the situation.

[DarthEnder]

Pfft. Torches.

Clearly in this day and age, guards would carry lamps.

[Hypevosa]

Pfft. Torches.

Clearly in this day and age, guards would carry lamps.

SHHHHHHHHHH I was going to make a thread... It was just hiding in the shadows waiting for the right time to bring on the clonk.

[jtr7]

Taking torches off the wall is hard to implement, though it would be nice. If you wouldn't mind the laughable animation when things don't align correctly. :)

[DarthEnder]

SHHHHHHHHHH I was going to make a thread... It was just hiding in the shadows waiting for the right time to bring on the clonk.So make it.

Basically, any guard whose patrol route regularly takes him through areas of pitch darkness should be equipped with a lantern.

Also, guards standing watch with areas of pitch darkness nearby should have lanterns onhand, rather than on their person. So if there's a commotion, they go get the lamp, light it, and then inspect the darkness. Rather than just walking off blind and expecting everything to turn out all right.

My first instinct was to suggest that they just have normal lanterns, but then I thought about it and realized that, from a purely gameplay standpoint, that would just be a pain in the ass for the player.

I think a better choice is to use a shuttered bullseye lantern. The guard would walk around with it lit all the time, but when he's in lit areas, he keeps the shutter closed, and when he walks into dark areas, he opens the shutter and it just illuminates a cone in front of him, rather than everything around him.

[Myth]

For once, i agree with DarthEnder. I can't express how good it felt when i played "Callendra's Legacy" for T2 and one of the patrolling guards switched the lights on when he entered the room. MAN did i freak the hell out and scrambled for the nearest shadow (this mission must be ghosted).

Anyway, what do you all think on the argument of "auto-homing guards (a-la TDP/TMA or random blind idiots A-LA TDS)? Honestly, both types have their flaws. It's absolutely PREPOSTEROUS for the guards to always home in on Garret's position like in the first two games. (OK i know how to ghost, we are discussing core gameplay elements here so you better not reply with "olololoo lern how2ghost"). But blind and mentally retarded guards like in TDS don't really cut it for me as well. Thoughts?

[Hypevosa]

I call it player-hate when games' AI hone in on the player for no good reason. In TDS if you shoot a rust mite and are perfectly hidden afterwards, the guards will still come find you and demand you get down for like 2 minutes before they're like "I guess he disappeared".

It's worse in COD:WAW in veteran mode because there will be 50 guys in front of you, yet whenever the enemy throws a grenade it always lands RIGHT at your feet. After juggling 8 grenades in a row the hate is unreal. What's worse, was I once had an enemy run past 4 of my allies, and turn 2 corners to come shoot at me... all without my allies shooting at him, or him even acknowledging they were there... I wasn't even in his line of sight.

I don't think the game should have player hate anymore.

[Shadow Blade]

Anyway, what do you all think on the argument of "auto-homing guards (a-la TDP/TMA or random blind idiots A-LA TDS)? Honestly, both types have their flaws. It's absolutely PREPOSTEROUS for the guards to always home in on Garret's position like in the first two games. (OK i know how to ghost, we are discussing core gameplay elements here so you better not reply with "olololoo lern how2ghost"). But blind and mentally retarded guards like in TDS don't really cut it for me as well. Thoughts?

I agree with you about the guards. I remember how they used to head straight for you sometimes in TDP and TMA (it was annoying) and in TDS how you could easily avoid them. Maybe what they could do is if a guard just catches a glims of you they could increase there perseptive skills by a few percent because if I was a guard and saw what I thought was a person Id be 100% focused and listening for even the slightest sounds. Did anyone have the same incident in TDS when a guard was walkin towards you and you threw an object (like a cup or candal) past him (narrowly missing his head) which then made a noise behind him and he would then go to investigate even when you could have sworn blind that he saw which direction the cup was coming from?

[ToMegaTherion]

A big problem in Deadly Shadows was that even if they were alerted enough to draw their swords and rush over to where they thought they saw you, they'd then not have the intelligence to work out the possible locations the thief could have moved to, and investigate one of them.

[Sierra Oscar]

I would welcome the AI interacting more with their environment in general.

[jtr7]

Yeah. I would hope there are templates for this kind of coding by now so the devs don't have to build it up from scratch and only need to modify the actions for their specific needs.

[DarthEnder]

I honestly think that, no matter how dark it is, it should never be possible to move and stay completely invisible. Even in pitch darkness, you shouldn't be able to move and have a guard that's a foot away not be able to see you.

Anyway, what do you all think on the argument of "auto-homing guards (a-la TDP/TMA or random blind idiots A-LA TDS)? Honestly, both types have their flaws. It's absolutely PREPOSTEROUS for the guards to always home in on Garret's position like in the first two games. (OK i know how to ghost, we are discussing core gameplay elements here so you better not reply with "olololoo lern how2ghost"). But blind and mentally retarded guards like in TDS don't really cut it for me as well. Thoughts?What do you mean by "auto-homing"? They're following your footsteps. Unless your standing on carpet or moss, you still make noise when you walk. It walking on wood and stone might not make enough noise to alert a guard normally, but when a guard is already alert and 2 feet away from you, they can hear you moving on those surfaces, that's why they keep turning towards you as they are stumbling forward.

[Hypevosa]

what he means is that even if you were in pitch darkness, and not moving, guards would autohone on your position occasionally. Now, in TDP it didn't matter since as long as you were crouched they still couldn't see you, but it was still annoying none the less...

I actually noticed that in TDS if you move while near a guard (~5 feet), even if your gem is pitch black they will notice you, as you said darth. I think that's an improvement.

[jtr7]

Except I always wonder what Keeper training he got during his long education from youth to early twenties. Reading, writing, arithmetic, bow & arrow, crude swordplay, and a big backyard of playground equipment, maybe swimming, shadows are better for hiding than light, soft surfaces are better than hard for silencing footsteps, but really nothing special at all, there. The bow, reading, and math are the most powerful tools that he learned, but like the others, none of it is outside most of anyone's abilities. So what makes his Keeper training something the Enforcers were warned against?

[Taffer17]

I call it player-hate when games' AI hone in on the player for no good reason.
I don't think the game should have player hate anymore.

hahahahahaha player hate. that's classic! and i know exactly what you're talking about with CoD. all of them are like htat and its a pain in the ass

[13LACK13ISHOP]

DarthEnders lantern idea is pretty good. Maybe you can smash lanterns and electrical lights with broadheads and use water arrows to douse torches and fires. Speaking of which closing curtains could be handy to block out light from outside.

[DoomyDoomyDoomDoom]

I too would like for guards to use light. I also hate the 'homing guards'.

I can't express how good it felt when i played "Callendra's Legacy" for T2 and one of the patrolling guards switched the lights on when he entered the room. MAN did i freak the hell out and scrambled for the nearest shadow (this mission must be ghosted).

Awesome.

[jtr7]

sg60103A: (Frustrated exhale) "Damn torches--always sputtering out!"
sg50103B: "Well, don't just make taff over it, light it up!"
sg60103C: "I lost my tinderbox. W-why don't you do it?"
sg50103D: "I ain't the one that's complaining, am I now?"
sg60103E: "Humph…."

[DoomyDoomyDoomDoom]

Those lazy fools. I thought for sure one of them was going to come out after that, but no. They were okay with monitoring a dark section of hallway that they can't see.

[tinetone]

If guard would be able to ignite torches than there should be some timer to show you hom much time torch cant be ignite. If you use water arrow torch sould be wet at least few minutes. Unlike orinary torches those gas lumps, some of them seen in T2 wich you could ignite with the touch, could be ignitet rigt away. You should also have the ability to exingush any torch lamp candle when you are close enough using some sort of scoop. Those lights could be lihgt back right away.

[jtr7]

In gameplay, the timer wouldn't matter to anyone but those playing certain styles, and for the others it will be an annoying HUD item. Everyone else will just take out the AIs and keep the torch dark forever.