Horses in T4

[SlyGarrett]

What would you think about horses in Thief 4?

You can't imagine a medieval world without any horses. In Thief 1&2, the computer technology was too low for accurate horses - but nowadays the technology might be able to insert them.

Why horses in T4? They don't merely add atmosphere, but also more game depth.
For example, some patrol guards might ride on a horse in the streets of the City, on the outside of buildings and on estates. When they see you or somewhere else they hear alarm, they can quickly come and catch you up.
They guards sitting on horses don't fight with swords, but with bows or crossbows.

Garrett might also be able to ride a horse, but this would make very loud noise.
In some mission, you would have to steal a horse for the last objective. As in real medieval life, this is very risky and dangerous.

You have to find a way into the stable, wait for the right moment, then jump on the back of a horse and escape through the gates as quickly as possible.
The guards see this, mount their own horses and persecute you. While your horse automatically follows a path in the forest, you look backwards and try to shoot the persecutors with arrows - which is not so easy when sitting on the back of a horse!
This would add some diverting action to the sneaking. :D

[LightWarriorK]

I'm all for horses and other forms of wildlife (such as there would be in the City), but I think taking it the level of having a section be essentially an on-rails shooter is distinctly....not Thief.

So, yeah, I'd be for all of that execpt your whole last paragraph.

[Hypevosa]

I think horses could be in certain missions, but on a whole since Garrett is almost always going to be within the city walls, there would be no horses. Playing the previous games you know how little room there is to move in the city streets, and most large cities wouldn't allow horses entry. Maybe a merchant who needed to transport some heavy goods would have to pay every now and then for the horse to get there, but there really wouldn't be many within the walls at all. If we rob someone out in the countryside, I could see horses, and maybe using one to escape... but only if I screwed up and everyone was looking for me.

And no rail shooting...

[Master Taffer]

Horses are in the Thief universe (Briefing to Lord Bafford's Manor if you don't believe me), however I can't see horse riding as a mechanic, and definately no "on the fails" moments, as they are very antithetical to Thief's theme of stealth.

[hellwalker]

it would have to be a ninja horse to be of use to Garrett.

[Hypevosa]

it would have to be a ninja horse to be of use to Garrett.

Black horse with padded hooves, and no saddle (to make less noise). A horse would not ever be garrett's first choice of transportation I'm pretty sure... it would need to be thrust upon him by extenuating circumstance.

[Platinumoxicity]

Garrett travels on foot so that he can be constantly aware of his surroundings because he doesn't mask the environment noises with his own footsteps. He is also able to hide quickly without leaving evidence. (A horse that's in the middle of the street, not in a leach, without anyone guarding it)

[Viktoria]

Assassins Creed worked with horses, so yeah, I can see one being useful for Garrett. :cool:

[DarthEnder]

First of all, I don't think Garrett needs to be riding anything.

As for there being horses simply being in the game, like in stables and whatnot, I actually think it would be cool if the Thief world didn't use horses. It's got alot of weird animals in it, I think it would be interesting to find they use some other kind of animal for mounts. Like some kind of stag, or like a hippogriff without wings.

[Viktoria]

Or a burrick! :cool: :D

[GmanPro]

The stag and hipogriff thing is a bit much. I'd rather have just plain horses.

Patrolling guards on horses would be a nice touch.

[Hypevosa]

The stag and hipogriff thing is a bit much. I'd rather have just plain horses.

Patrolling guards on horses would be a nice touch.

Yeah, try blackjacking that guard XD He'd be easy to sneak around though, since his horse would be so loud it would drown out most of your steps.

[GmanPro]

I'd like to try spooking the horse so it takes off at a gallop, carrying the guard far far away :D

[hellwalker]

who needs horses when you have Thieves Highway ^^

I want more rooftops not horses

[GmanPro]

I want both

[Hypevosa]

who needs horses when you have Thieves Highway ^^

I want more rooftops not horses

Rooftops and horses aren't exactly enemies, there could be both ;D

although I like gman's idea... using a fire arrow or some other really loud noise next to a horse to make it run away with the rider. XD

[Thieffanman]

Assassins Creed worked with horses, so yeah, I can see one being useful for Garrett. :cool:

If Garrett has to go between cities like Altair, I'm all for horses as a method of transportation.

. . . but in town? If Garrett's wanted poster is plastered everywhere like in TDS, he'd stand out too much. In town, I say let him skulk :D.

--Thieffanman

P.S. I *hope* Garrett's wanted poster is plastered everywhere; it made the need for stealth *happen* in the game :).

[Viktoria]

If Garrett has to go between cities like Altair, I'm all for horses as a method of transportation.

. . . but in town? If Garrett's wanted poster is plastered everywhere like in TDS, he'd stand out too much. In town, I say let him skulk :D.

--Thieffanman

P.S. I *hope* Garrett's wanted poster is plastered everywhere; it made the need for stealth *happen* in the game :).

Oh yes, I agree. I answered in general, as to suppose that T4 may include outer-city areas. Personally, I wouldn't want to ride a horse in T4 at all (in the city) but I answered to entertain the question. :)

I, too, am looking forward to seeing 'Wanted' posters. :cool:

[Hamadriyad]

If the city is huge we can use horse to go to somewhere from somewhere but not in action.(escape from guards etc.)Maybe we can use something else instead horse but horse is good I guess.

[kin]

I would prefer the classic burrick. There could be some factions like the pagans that use it solely (as a horse). But remember that this kind of transportation will make the huge levels at least normal in size. Thief is about detailed and continuant exploration.

[DarthEnder]

I would really rather Garrett just didn't know how to ride a horse.

Every good character should have something they aren't good at. He pretty much rules at everything else. Make him suck at riding.

It's like how a lot of people who live in Manhattan don't know how to drive a car. Because in the city you don't need to.

[Yaphy]

Garrett shouldnt ride a horse, its to much assassins creed. The guards on the other hand could have a great use of horses. It should add a nice touch if you could scare the horse into panic by shooting a noicemaker arrow in front of it, or maybe a fire arrow. The horse would panic and throw of the guard and run away.

[huzi73]

Give garrett a horse already,let him steal a special one from a horse collector....or something

[Alex50]

What for to him the horse? You want to have extensive and empty maps similarly to medieval Palestine from Assassin Creed? And in city how to use the horse? Probably horse is required special thieves' tuning. Considerably black colors and special horseshoes. That the horse would not be visible in shadows, silent step and vertical rise on walls of a building. Silly idea.
The guards could use the horses. But it will create many mistakes in game in narrow streets. In Assassins Creed and Oblivion of the horse were used only on open district.
In a result - guards and Garrett the horse is not necessary in city. The horse needs an open place. To create similar maps only for the horses unreasonable expenditure of forces of the developers.
You like the horses get game " Mount&Blade ". In comparison with her other games with the horse look poorly.

[esme]

as long as we can 'ginger' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingering) the horse for a distraction I'm all for 'them, can't wait to hear the sound file for that activity :lol:


...(and no I would not even suggest doing this in real life)

[mister_riz]

Riding a horse shooting bows and arrows at pursuing horsemen???

Pfft. Go play Oblivion and stop posting ****e.

[Mshade]

Definately, it should be in every indoor mission too! Why wait for patrols to turn around when you can just burst in on your horse ramming everything in the room! They should even make it co-op where one person controls the horse. Horse stealth action! HSA = The new way to play! They could even have an arcade mode where you beat the game as the horse. No one would expect a horse to steal, right?

Who needs to lockpick when you can tie a rope to your horse and a chest and drag the money out by force!


Developers please listen! Forget about Garrett, the Keepers, the Hammerites, The Pagans and everyone else. Make this Thief P4TZ!

[DarthEnder]

Where the hell would he even KEEP a horse? He lives in a 10x10 apartment in the slums!

[GmanPro]

Garrett wouldn't keep a horse. But that doesn't mean other people wouldn't

[ToMegaTherion]

I sometimes played Thief as a table. Or a potted plant. A horse isn't too ridiculous :D

[Petike the Taffer]

Horses should be included (along with many other species of animals) to give the City and it's surroundings a more authentic feel - I'm all for it.

But their usefulness to Garrett equals zero. And he probably isn't very keen about them either... He's skilled at moving through nearly any kind of terrain on his own feet and isn't the type of person, that would mindlessly rush into anywhere. So I doubt he'd use a horse.

Guards or soldiers on horses or functional horse-drawn vehicles would be great though. :)

[Hypevosa]

Horses should be included (along with many other species of animals) to give the City and it's surroundings a more authentic feel - I'm all for it.


Could you imagine sneaking into some lady's room where she's asleep, picking a chest and looking up to see the cat that was on her bed staring you right in the face?.... Pets would make the game very interesting.

[GmanPro]

Dogs would be good too. Imagine leaping over a fence and being spotted by a couple of guard dogs. They would bark like crazy, and then try to bite you. As well as being an interesting addition to the game mechanics. Now you would have to worry about guards that have super senses.

[SlyGarrett]

I think horses could be in certain missions, but on a whole since Garrett is almost always going to be within the city walls, there would be no horses. Playing the previous games you know how little room there is to move in the city streets, and most large cities wouldn't allow horses entry. Maybe a merchant who needed to transport some heavy goods would have to pay every now and then for the horse to get there, but there really wouldn't be many within the walls at all. If we rob someone out in the countryside, I could see horses, and maybe using one to escape... but only if I screwed up and everyone was looking for me.

And no rail shooting...

As I said, horses aren't intended for sneaking - as they are simply too loud! Besides, they are too big to enter buildings.
Horses are only useful in outer areas, either for patrol guards or for Garrett when he has to flee quickly at the end of a mission.

If a patrol guard is riding on a horse, he can't be knocked out, but can only be shot with arrows - so if killing is not allowed in a mission, you must simply avoid all mounted guards!

Besides, horses would give a new level of difficulty in the missions: Rather than stealing a little key or rob a bank, Garrett would have to steal a big living thing - and use this thing for escape at the same time!

[AbysmalGale]

Horses for guards, sure! Good thought. But for Garrett, nope!

I really think horses is a cool idea, IF USED RIGHT. In the previous thief games, no enemy could outrun Garrett. Sure, the hammer haunts could run as fas AS Garrett, but not FASTER. The same with the tree beasts. A guard on a horse could be a REAL challenge for our master thief since it would be very very fast (but perhaps a bit clumsy). Alerting such an enemy would mean serious danger, and hiding or jumping into water would be the only options for an escape. Trying to run would eventually lead to getting caught.

But Garrett himself won't need a horse. He's a loner, and operates best on foot.

[SlyGarrett]

Horses should be included (along with many other species of animals) to give the City and it's surroundings a more authentic feel - I'm all for it.

But their usefulness to Garrett equals zero. And he probably isn't very keen about them either... He's skilled at moving through nearly any kind of terrain on his own feet and isn't the type of person, that would mindlessly rush into anywhere. So I doubt he'd use a horse.

Guards or soldiers on horses or functional horse-drawn vehicles would be great though. :)

Yes, I must admit that watchdogs are much easier to insert than horses.

The watchdogs are nearly as good (or even better) as a technical alarm system - they can smell everything in certain radius around them, bark loudly, and also they can't be shut down by simply pressing a key!
You would have to either kill them, lure them away, or corrupt them with a piece of meat or some sort..

[Yaphy]

If a patrol guard is riding on a horse, he can't be knocked out, but can only be shot with arrows - so if killing is not allowed in a mission, you must simply avoid all mounted guards!



Or you just shoot a Noicemaker arrow, fire arrow or throw a flash bomb in front of the horse. The horse will throw the guard of and panic.

[SlyGarrett]

Horses for guards, sure! Good thought. But for Garrett, nope!

I really think horses is a cool idea, IF USED RIGHT. In the previous thief games, no enemy could outrun Garrett. Sure, the hammer haunts could run as fas AS Garrett, but not FASTER. The same with the tree beasts. A guard on a horse could be a REAL challenge for our master thief since it would be very very fast (but perhaps a bit clumsy). Alerting such an enemy would mean serious danger, and hiding or jumping into water would be the only options for an escape. Trying to run would eventually lead to getting caught.

But Garrett himself won't need a horse. He's a loner, and operates best on foot.

There were many thieves with horses in medieval times - it was the fastest way to escape when it get's dangerous!

I don't know if you have played the tactical game "Desperados" (gameplay like in Commandos, but settled in the Western).
There are also horses in this game, and at the end of many levels you have to steal some horses for your team members and escape somewehere. Running around on a horse before the end of a mission is simply foolish, because you get instantly shot down.

Of course, Desperados plays in the western and is not a stealth game, but the atmosphere when stealing horses is very cool - you get the feeling you are a real scoundrel. ;)

[Aristofiles]

dont like the idea Thief = slow, stealty, shadow. Horse = action, speed, great space to move around in.

its totaly aginst the concept. AC may have them to move between citys but why would i wanto spend 14 min riding in the middle of nowere? Thief is a city game and in a city there is little point of having a horse. Same goes for the guards. Lets say thay see ouer thief, what will thay do? sit on thier horse and screem? It will lead to alot of uggly animations.

horses and all animal in the game are wellcome though as thay make the game more alive, Perhaps a objective in a mission would be to cut the sadle straps in the guards stable before escaping?

[DarthEnder]

Pfft...watch dogs.

I say the Thief world should use watch BOARS!

[Taffer17]

Definately, it should be in every indoor mission too! Why wait for patrols to turn around when you can just burst in on your horse ramming everything in the room! They should even make it co-op where one person controls the horse. Horse stealth action! HSA = The new way to play! They could even have an arcade mode where you beat the game as the horse. No one would expect a horse to steal, right?

Who needs to lockpick when you can tie a rope to your horse and a chest and drag the money out by force!


Developers please listen! Forget about Garrett, the Keepers, the Hammerites, The Pagans and everyone else. Make this Thief P4TZ!


lmao :lol::D:lol:

[Taffer17]

I sometimes played Thief as a table. Or a potted plant.


also lmao :lol::D:lol:

[Taffer17]

Could you imagine sneaking into some lady's room where she's asleep, picking a chest and looking up to see the cat that was on her bed staring you right in the face?.... Pets would make the game very interesting.

sorry i'm quoting a stealth game when there is clearly no other stealth game like thief and i hate when peoplemake comparisons, but in hitman blood money, there's a level where u need to kill this old man who's having a christmas party, and his little dog starts barking and ruins any idea of sneaking up on him. i thought that was a real pain in the ass and it would take away a lot of the fun of thief...try hiding in the shadows only to have the dogs smell you and maul you...plus i've never been big into harming animalsin video games. its one thing to hit a human with a sword, but a dog? why? i didnt like the dogs in the last two call of duty games. i always felt bad having to kill them or be killed.


also, sorry for all the posts in a row. can someone send me a private message and explain how to quotemore than one person in a post? i'm completelylost

[Hypevosa]

There's a multiquote button that you click, it's blacked out but you can still use it.

Anyways, I do see your dilemma, as there are many who have an aversion to killing animals in game (look at the protest some gave call of duty world at war for having to kill attack dogs in multiplayer or be mauled to death). However, there's no reason a person shouldn't be able to do it. What's ironic is that there's only one level I recall that says no killing of anything, and that's the very first level of thief on expert. "No pets" was mentioned in it, and there were no pets, just a bunch of angry spiders guarding a chest with goodies in the sewer.

There however can be different ways of dealing with said pets, maybe there's a ball of yarn nearby, and you can pick it up and throw it for the cat to go distract itself with. Dogs could be distracted by throwing the bone of a skeleton or a deer leg you picked up in the kitchen, or be lost by dipping in water to remove your scent temporarily. There are alot of diverse ways animals can be dealt with, just like humans. All else fails, I'm sure a blackjack would work as well if not better on a dog or a cat, though I would also not like to hit an animal, even virtually.

[Corvin25]

I was going to say that there are no "normal" animals in Thief, but the very first mission of Thief TDP had some guards talking about bear fights.

Still, adding horses just seems a little... I dunno. PLAIN for some reason. Domesticated burricks, maybe?

And I dunno about dogs. I'd really hate to be forced to kill a dog in a mission. I have two of them... :(

[ToMegaTherion]

Horses definitely exist and see standard use, see Bafford's Manor briefing.

[Yaphy]

Hmm...I see no difference in blackjacking a guard and a dog. I can easly play Thief IV and walk into a dark room and suddently there is a dog standing infront of me. I slowly pull the blackjack and "good night Pluto!"...

[yoogh]

Assassins Creed worked with horses, so yeah, I can see one being useful for Garrett. :cool:

I hope this is a joke :hmm:

Assassin Creed <> Thief

[esme]

Dogs would be good too. Imagine leaping over a fence and being spotted by a couple of guard dogs. They would bark like crazy, and then try to bite you. As well as being an interesting addition to the game mechanics. Now you would have to worry about guards that have super senses.here's an alternative suggestion

in the UK, in olden days, the very rich used to keep peacocks in the grounds, because they were very pretty to look at, but if they were startled by anything they made a horrendous amount of noise alerting everyone nearby to come see what the problem was and bring their pitchfork just in case it was an intruder, also it meant that guests and their children could wander the grounds without being mauled to death by dogs

[esme]

Hmm...I see no difference in blackjacking a guard and a dog. I can easly play Thief IV and walk into a dark room and suddently there is a dog standing infront of me. I slowly pull the blackjack and "good night Pluto!"... I used to BJ Burricks and frogbeasts I believe you could also BJ spiders but I've never managed that

I always wanted to BJ a frogbeast, pick it up and throw it like a hand grenade http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/ebil.gif

[SlyGarrett]

Hmm...I see no difference in blackjacking a guard and a dog. I can easly play Thief IV and walk into a dark room and suddently there is a dog standing infront of me. I slowly pull the blackjack and "good night Pluto!"...

But what if this dog is able to smell you before you can even come near him? Smelling is his strongest sense, and the dog's able to smell you even if you're hiding in the dark or standing behind him!

However, dogs should only have a small radius where they can smell everything.
But they shouldn't be able to smell against the wind, for example, that would mean you could work against the wind in order to surprise the dog!

[massimilianogoi]

I used to BJ Burricks and frogbeasts...

And you took no damage blackjacking the frogbeasts? O_O

[esme]

And you took no damage blackjacking the frogbeasts? O_Onope, if they didn't see me they didn't go bang, you creep up behind them, get it centre screen, raise the BJ, hit crouch as you've now stood up by raising the BJ then release the BJ, result one KO'd frog :D

[clock12345]

first of all screw you who doesnt want horses and the game to bee more freedomed like assassins creed a little bit of his moves screw you i dont think you should make this game like the old game's make this game more styled more optionery freedomery
i say yes there should be horses in thief 4 cuz all the city will be open and big
freedomed outside the city walls there will be many other towns at any chance
you will have to runaway from guards and there will be a mission where you get
caught and you will have to escape the prison after that you will be wanted in the
town so you'll have to run away with a horse to your chamber unless they find u

(thief should have a horsey option)

[The Mental Age]

first of all screw you who doesnt want horses and the game to bee more freedomed like assassins creed a little bit of his moves screw you

:(

Anyway...

Why ride a horse when you could ride a burrick? :whistle:

[Blade_hunter]

Assassins Creed = Action/adventure
Thief = First Person Infiltration
The comparison doesn't match ;)

I think vehicular transportation fits well in Deus Ex (pretty much things can be suggested for that game), but I'm more skeptical about Thief
Thief is a very focused genre that forces us to sneak and infiltrate, even the alert system used in thief forced us to make our kills an KOs without to be detected.
But before giving an opinion about that I prefer to ask why players want to use horses in Thief (because it's more about their use that is the question here) ?

[SlyGarrett]

[LEFT]first of all screw you who doesnt want horses and the game to bee more freedomed like assassins creed a little bit of his moves screw you i dont think you should make this game like the old game's make this game more styled more optionery freedomery
i say yes there should be horses in thief 4 cuz all the city will be
open and big
freedomed outside the city walls there will be many other towns at any chance
you will have to runaway from guards and there will be a mission where you get
caught and you will have to escape the prison after that you will be wanted in the
town so you'll have to run away with a horse to your chamber unless they find u

(thief should have a horsey option)

No, we don't want Thief 4 to be an Assassin's Creed clone - I didn't even think of it!
We don't want a "free world" in Thief 4, but rather small areas with borders you can't pass in missions. Horses should not be for travelling large areas, but more for atmosphere and gameplay (stealing them as an objective, or for guards moving quickly)

It would be nice if there were, for example, mounted patrol guards in the streets. You would hear the hooves "tap tap" around the corner and hide in the shadows while waiting for the patrol guard to pass.
There could even be mounted "police" troops which patrol in double teams through the streets and give amusing dialogues when you were going behind them!

In some mission you would have to break in the militia police station of the City. Amongst other things you would have to hijack all horses out of the militia stables as quietly as possible - either to make the police immovable, to enrich your faction with new horses or to sell the horses to some black marketeer.

[Direlord]

first of all screw you who doesnt want horses and the game to bee more freedomed like assassins creed a little bit of his moves screw you i dont think you should make this game like the old game's make this game more styled more optionery freedomery

Well that was a bit uncalled for I must say.

My opinion is that horses should be ridden by outside guards on some missions and you maybe have to sneak into a building through a stable or something but Garrett should not need or want to ride a horse in the game at all.

While it is faster making yourself taller by having a what half ton creature underneath you that you can't silence is not very stealthy. Also stabling and feeding a horse costs money, money Garrett could be using on himself...

[Gillie]

If there was any inkling of dogs to be killed to get passed or any such I would not play it.
As to horses good idea. Ruin the game completely why not. :rolleyes:
The game is stealth not escaping on a horse,besides which only the nobility would have been able to afford a horse.

[a_taffer]

Horses are a great idea. In fact, in Thief 3 you can hear them with carriages in the background noise of The City.

[Blade_hunter]

I think nobody are against horses presence, but I think it's the interactivity with them that can change something in Thief.
So what the pro horses guys wants to use the horse in the game. I want just to regroup some possibilities emitted on that thread (even something else for see)

- A living decoration (no real interactivity with them)
- A new enemy (Knight or any new horse mounted enemy)
- A tool (for example as a diversion tool that we can guide it without to mount it)
- A level transition decoration (when you finish your mission you "use" the horse to go to the next level, you can see a video sequence with the game engine or with something made without the game engine ...)
- A mean of transportation that we can take a full control
- A loot

What's the choice ?

[esme]

some FM developers are actively looking at creating a motion database for quadrupeds (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123150&highlight=quadruped) and I believe they are looking at horses, so as long as it's an extra and we don't lose anything for the addition, why not

[Hamadriyad]

What's the choice ?

A mean of transportation that we can take a full control
It would be nice

[Viktoria]

So, what is the general consensus? Do we have a "yay!" or a "ne-ei-eigh!" for horses?


(sorry, I couldn't resist that one. :naughty: )

:D

[esme]

oh dear http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/shake.gif you just had to didn't you

... well if I can do mystique I guess I shouldn't complain :D

maybe we should have a poll ?

[Blade_hunter]

I think a poll is appropriate but the thing is the choices can be multiple depends if players wants them useful or just a decoration to increase immersion in some ways but I prefer to wait a bit if there is some other proposals in therms of options allowed for that ...

[Hypevosa]

I also think the scope of the thread is more of a domestic animal now than just horses since cats and dogs were discussed. A thread with a poll is indeed a good idea.

[Knight]

Good idea.

[Hypevosa]

Sly garrett hasn't been on for a few days, and he doesn't have the number of posts required to make a poll, so I'll do it for him.

[SlyGarrett]

I think nobody are against horses presence, but I think it's the interactivity with them that can change something in Thief.
So what the pro horses guys wants to use the horse in the game. I want just to regroup some possibilities emitted on that thread (even something else for see)

- A living decoration (no real interactivity with them)
- A new enemy (Knight or any new horse mounted enemy)
- A tool (for example as a diversion tool that we can guide it without to mount it)
- A level transition decoration (when you finish your mission you "use" the horse to go to the next level, you can see a video sequence with the game engine or with something made without the game engine ...)
- A mean of transportation that we can take a full control
- A loot

What's the choice ?

Horses could be all of it at the same time - If the programmers bother to implant horses in Thief 4, it would be expedient for them to insert the horses for more then just one of these aims!

But Garrett/the playing character shouldn't be forced to ride on horses at all, except maybe for completing an objective at the end of a mission ("lead the horse from the stable to the gate, mount it and then escape").

[CurtX]

My opinion from a similar thread http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1017466&postcount=12

[Blade_hunter]

I think and this is a fact, you never be forced to ride horses, but the problem with them is perhaps the advantage they can give you in therms of force and speed, also the question allow you to choose both options ;) that question was sightly "open" even if I didn't said anything about that, but this is what I intended about that question.
You can choose every option or only 2 - 3 options you like But I think the best of all is to made a poll about that, also you can use a horse without to ride it, just by guiding it to the place you want.

I see some problems about game balance about the possibility to use them, because horses give us a power that no weapon could give to us ...

[Yaphy]

Horses should be included in some way...

-Garret shouldnt be able to ride a horse. (Its not thiefy. I do like the idea of Garret escaping a Pagan camp on a horse. Not a chase though. It should just be the exit. You walk to the horse. Jump on to it, and then a clip starts when you see Garrett ride the horse through the woods.

-Guards could be able to patrol on horses. They are faster then Garrett. They do much more damage then regular guards when they sprint. If they standing still and fight; they should do as much damage as regular guards. You might scare the horse with fire arrows or noicemakers, they will panic and throw the guard of and leave him in the dirt. The mounted guards can not be blackjacked..

-Horses can stand in a stable and be used as distraction. Make them panic all over the area.

-Regular people could ride horses with carts full of hay and such. You can enter a mission by jumping into the cart with hay, and be transported inside the castle walls.

[SlyGarrett]

I think and this is a fact, you never be forced to ride horses, but the problem with them is perhaps the advantage they can give you in therms of force and speed, also the question allow you to choose both options ;) that question was sightly "open" even if I didn't said anything about that, but this is what I intended about that question.
You can choose every option or only 2 - 3 options you like But I think the best of all is to made a poll about that, also you can use a horse without to ride it, just by guiding it to the place you want.

I see some problems about game balance about the possibility to use them, because horses give us a power that no weapon could give to us ...

Implanting the ability to ride horses would not mean that the player will use it often.

For example, in Thief 1&2 you were able to fight a guard with your sword - but most players preferred the sneaky way, although it took time because fighting only brought disadvantages.

So if Garrett/the playing character should ride on horses during the mission, this should only bring him disadvantage - the hooves would make too loud noise, a guard could shoot him from the horse with an arrow, or the horse could panically drop him off if it hears loud noises produced by the guards or by somebody else (fire crackers, gunpowder, etc.).
At the end of a mission, when every guard is knocked out and put away safely, riding would not be such a problem.

[fraten]

Don't want no horse. I want my Burrick back! :wave:

[Myth]

I suggested guards on horseback some weeks ago :) I'd say go for it, but also don't forget the burricks :)

[nydusordos]

How about this?

Between each mission, Garrett has to ride a horse at high speeds to the next destination. He uses a huge hammer to smash ghouls and hammerites that are trying to pull him from the horse, if he kills three in a row, Garrett glows red and an announcer screams (MULTIKILL!!!) and he gets more and more money for each subsequent death!

Yeah, and instead of bow and arrow, he now has an automatic machine arrow gun that fires five arrows a second. Better, he has to dismount at periodic intervals and ward off an attack by hundreds of enemies by mowing them down (MULTIKILL!!! MULTIKILL!!).

I'm sure the xbox crowd would love that $h!t. Thief 4: No more of that sneaking around crap, Garrett is pissed off!!!

Ummm...horses, yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing a horse walk by every now and again. :)

- NO

[Hypevosa]

A tad bit on the unnecessary side...

I was more imagining Garrett is being pursued by 5 guards, see's one on a horse blockading the way ahead, knocks guard off horse, mounts horse, is struck by at least 3 or 4 arrows before getting away, leaving a trail of blood. He rides the horse for 2 streets, limps into the shadows of an alleyway, swigs a health potion and waits for his wound to heal up. His leg gets better so he can walk normally but he's still bleeding from the side, so he swigs another. A guard follows the blood trail into the alleyway, Garrett looks to his side to see the wound finally healed up, shoots a rope arrow into the roofing above him and climbs, the guard spots him and begins to make pursuit but is a little slower since he's unused to ropes and a little heavy to climb them. Garrett reaches the window sill, and grins as he holds the arrow stuck in the roof above, the guard looks at him mouthing "no don't" as Garrett pulls the arrow out, the rope disappears and the guard falls flattening the other 5 guards below him, all groaning at the experience. Garrett turns to see he was lucky enough to get into a wealthy person's room, proceeds to pilfer the painting, the gold cups and the wine, and then proceeds to jump to the adjacent roof. "Thieves highway... why do I bother with the streets?"

[SlyGarrett]

How about this?

Between each mission, Garrett has to ride a horse at high speeds to the next destination. He uses a huge hammer to smash ghouls and hammerites that are trying to pull him from the horse, if he kills three in a row, Garrett glows red and an announcer screams (MULTIKILL!!!) and he gets more and more money for each subsequent death!

Yeah, and instead of bow and arrow, he now has an automatic machine arrow gun that fires five arrows a second. Better, he has to dismount at periodic intervals and ward off an attack by hundreds of enemies by mowing them down (MULTIKILL!!! MULTIKILL!!).

I'm sure the xbox crowd would love that $h!t. Thief 4: No more of that sneaking around crap, Garrett is pissed off!!!

Ummm...horses, yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind seeing a horse walk by every now and again. :)

- NO

You make the mistake of presuming that horse riding would make things easy!

There is no such a thing as "Horse ramming" - at least not for Garrett. Horses are a means of transport.

Riding on horses is similar to fighting with swords: As soon as there are 2-3 guards, the only thing you can do is to flee. If they follow you in a dead end, you are lost anyways.
One single arrow should be enough to get Garrett off his horse.
There could be some guards with helbards instead of swords, which makes it easy for them to pull off Garrett from his horse!

[[PT] Garret [PT]]

the horses could be nervous when they are near you and alert the guards

[AngelRose777]

This sounds like Assassin's Creed type stuff, riding a horse between towns. But hasn't Garret mainly been in one town? ....actually, that would really open the game up into a larger world if there were multiple towns. He's a lil too well known where he is anyway, and there's nothing keeping him there since the keepers kind of lost all their power and probably wont be big into trouble making. It could also open up opportunities for more factions and types of people that Garret hadn't encountered before.

[Secondary]

im all for horses, as long as Garret isnt riding them.

id like to see bigger crowds in the city, peasants on foot and nobles and possbily guards riding on horseback. maybe some merchants in carriages for comfort or making deliveries.

as far as Garret owning a horse though, i cant see that. Garret stays out of jail by being agile, he can access rooftops and slip into shadows you wouldnt think an adult male would fit, or want to fit. he cant do that on a horse.

[DarknessFalls]

Garret [PT];1053889']the horses could be nervous when they are near you and alert the guards
It was a quiet nighttime and I accidentally startled a horse once. He was being quiet or maybe was just resting and didn't know I was walking nearby. I didn't know he was there. As I walked nearer, he heard me and then loudly stomped one foot onto the ground. *THUD!* Then he was quiet. It was weird and kinda freaked me out! Didn't know what it was at first. I think it was a horse's defense mechanism or something. I think he then turned to me to firmly stand his ground, and maybe gave another stomp or two (of course I could now be embellishing). Regardless, surely if it was in the Thief world, it would've drawn the attention of a nearby guard.

I don't want Thief to get Assassin's-Creed-crazy with horses, but a few horses would be okay in one or two places. Or maybe just a barn-like structure with a few horses in it (and one outside) in one of the levels, especially if there's the potential to accidentally startle a horse like the above. I wouldn't want the horse automatically running off to its owner (a guard) like it's a dog, though. That didn't happen in my experience (didn't even run off) and am not sure how often they'd actually do that.

[Secondary]

setting stalbed horses loose (then applying hot brand), would be a great way to make a noisy distraction

[Davehall380]

Lol. Id love to see the face on the guards. "oh for taffs sake. Benny! Its happened again! Come quick", "what?", "some taffers let loose them horses again".

[imperialreign]

Hmmm . . .

I, for one, can't really agree with the notion of horses in The City . . . personally, I think the Hammerite influence is such that they just wouldn't be permitted - perhaps a steam-powered cart or two, but not reguarlly.

Besides, I was always given the impression that the city streets are so cramped and small that it would make navigation difficult - maybe not so much for the more wealthy districts, but defi for the lower.

[imperialreign]

the same reason for no children to interact with, though we know they are there.

it was always passed their bedtime?

:p

[imperialreign]

They were always never in their beds at night, all cradles were empty...

No child to freak out as you stepped into their room through the window (*shudder*).

Would've made for an interesting aspect, eh?

Shoot, a moral aspect as well! BJ a kid? That'd be like killing a Burrick!

[imperialreign]

And that's on the mild end of the spectrum.

True . . . can't imagine how the trigger happys would handle such a situation :rolleyes:

[Hypevosa]

I think just standing there staring at the kid for a moment stunned, and pressing the esc key to pause. "WTF MATE? They put a ******* kid in this game? What the hell am I supposed to do?" *grabs hair for a second and clicks on the load screen to get to his last save point*

[Yaphy]

Even if horses do react on people walking near them in the dark when they sleep, They cant know that Garrett is a thief and will react the same if anybody else walks past them. A guard shouldnt really care if the horse stomped once or twice.

[Hypevosa]

that actually sounds like one of those mission briefing hints.

"The stable is probably my best way in... the problem is that the lord's horse will be there - and he doesn't let anyone get near but the lord himself... hopefully I'll find a way to get around it without alerting the whole facility..."

[Secondary]

there are horses in the City, you can hear hooves and carriages in the distance in TDS when you're in the City between missions. they just haven't been inlcuded in gameplay yet

[KittyCatAngel]

Although I think the idea is interesting enough, I think the use of horses etc has been overcome by the opportunity to implement these 'larger' creatures via steampunk/monsters etc. Such as mechbeasts, craymen, spiders. I just think that maybe the need to expand on the fantasy realm of Thief overcomes the need for reality.

Although I wouldn't mind seeing more normal animals in the game, I don't think it's monumentally important. (I've never played Thief for its reality anyway).

[Hypevosa]

I don't think fantasy monsters need to be used as transportation or it will get a little rediculous. I better not see a Gryphon land in front of the store I want to rob, ya know? It'd be getting a little TOO fantastical for me. Steampunk, sure but don't start pulling WOW on me, or DnD type stuff.

[KittyCatAngel]

I don't think fantasy monsters need to be used as transportation or it will get a little rediculous. I better not see a Gryphon land in front of the store I want to rob, ya know? It'd be getting a little TOO fantastical for me. Steampunk, sure but don't start pulling WOW on me, or DnD type stuff.

LOL! No, I didn't mean that monsters should be transport!!!
I just meant that perhaps with the Thief world being what it is, the need to have horses present in the game just wasn't a necessary thought.

[Vae]

I like the idea of horses, cats, dogs, and rats in the Thief world. All of these exist of course, but it would be nice to have them be more prominent and interactive with the player. Perhaps witnessing horse drawn carriages moving down the streets, cats that might follow you and make noise causing suspicion to nearby AI's, dogs that guard homes and guard dogs that could identify you by smell within a certain range, and of course rats.

[Vae]

Dogs chasing cats, rats startling female peasants, wolves gnawing on a corpse, bats spooking horses.

[darkmagicasorseer]

I would really rather Garrett just didn't know how to ride a horse.

Every good character should have something they aren't good at. He pretty much rules at everything else. Make him suck at riding.

It's like how a lot of people who live in Manhattan don't know how to drive a car. Because in the city you don't need to.

Horses are expensive in both for purchasing and in up-keeping them, hence for a guy like Garrett that is not rich (legally), he may have no significant skill in riding horse.
Maybe a skill level of riding a donkey...

[darkmagicasorseer]

Cats hunting rats, making dogs crazy, spooking horses. Rats gnawing on a corpse.

Dog biting Garrett's leg... :lol:

[Vae]

Cats chasing dogs, dogs licking their balls, dogs playing with balls, nipping at Benny's heels...

[Vae]

Cats jumping at bats, bats in the trees, pagans jumping on horses riding in the breeze...

[littlektaffer]

If you want reality then horses should be in the game, given the era. Giving a player the option of riding should be a decision of the player. If the character, Garrett needs to get somewhere fast and is willing to risk the noise then so be it. Otherwise, take to the rooftops and risk falling, the sewer and risk rats or the streets and risk being spotted by people or other critters.

[Herr_Garrett]

Burricks belching on dogs, cats, wolves, fleas, rats, men.

[darkmagicasorseer]

Have you guys played Mount and Blade? It's a Medieval Horse Combat game... quite fun, you can use a huge arsenal of medieval weapons such as sword, bow and arrows, and spears while riding on a horseback.

If Thief 4 is going to have a horse in it, horse combat should be included... Running thru a guard for escaping should be fun...

[Herr_Garrett]

Have you guys played Mount and Blade? It's a Medieval Horse Combat game... quite fun, you can use a huge arsenal of medieval weapons such as sword, bow and arrows, and spears while riding on a horseback.

If Thief 4 is going to have a horse in it, horse combat should be included... Running thru a guard for escaping should be fun...

I did play Mount and Blade, and I'd hate to see any of it in Thief. Both of them are outstanding games, but the chasm 'twixt them may not be bridg'd.

[Vae]

I did play Mount and Blade, and I'd hate to see any of it in Thief. Both of them are outstanding games, but the chasm 'twixt them may not be bridg'd.

Agreed...

Ok, back to work...cat fight, owl hooting in the tree, owl swooping down on rat...

[Secondary]

all this stuff about mount and blade, and oblivion.

have we all forgotten that Thief is a STEALTH game

just what about riding a horse do you find condusive to stealth

i can deal with guards on horseback, that might even be cool

but not Garrett on horseback, and especially not Garrett fighting on horse back

the only time your ever called upon to fight in Thief is if you make a mistake, or a wrong move and you are discovered, if your killing people than your not doing your job right

whats happening to this genre?!?:D

[Hypevosa]

this is what I had to say in my poll thread about horses and domestic animals:

"if you're going to make horses impossible to use, then they might as well not be usable. Make it difficult instead is what I'm proposing:

1. make them extremely hard to steer (it's not your horse, you probably freaked it the hell out, and you don't have training in how to ride one = one hell of a time trying to control it).

2. Everyone with a bow now has a target who's easier to aim at since they don't have to worry about hitting pedestrians anymore...

3. No chance at stealth at all.

It would become what it should be... a quick escape, but not a viable means of quick or easy transportation."

Would Garrett own a horse? 90% sure he wouldn't - maybe there's one SOMEWHERE, in some back stable, being attended to by a poor farmer who doesn't understand why but someone is paying him to maintain the horse - but they are, and handsomely. This horse is used as THE last resort - Garret knows his stay in the city (between city watch, angry merchants and hammers, rival thieves, and now former keepers on the streets etc) is being worn thin, and he may have to get away... period, for good. So this horse could be his ticket out.

Would Garrett know how to ride a horse? Probably gathered how it worked from simple observation, but is by no means a master rider who can parade his horse around and make it leap over gates and what not.

As I said already, I maintain they should be ridable, they should just come with their good number of disadvantages, such as hard control of steering (obviously the horse won't run headlong right into a wall though) and hard control of speed (said horse may instead instantly stop and buck you off). A horse should never be used as a primary means of transportation, but instead a last ditch effort at escape - or even a way of blowing through a blockade of guards or something. Obviously a stealthy approach would be more wise, but sometimes we just wanna have fun... am I right?

[littlektaffer]

Hypevosa - most horses will not freak with a different rider than what they are used to so to keep it realistic, they should not all be like Trigger. I still like the idea for a player who at some point in the game does not care about stealth - just to get the heck out of a situation or to just have fun galloping around the town harrassing the guards. Some players just really like stealth mode. Me, sometimes I play stealth mode and sometimes I like to knock everyone out and explore - maybe frighten a few peasants just for fun or get a guard to chase you around in the water until they drown. Many times I am running for my life screaming like a little child. That is what is so appealing about Thief is that you can play it any number of ways.

Hi jtr - guess I keep in mind T gold as my ultimate game with the old feel about it. I just don't see any Thief game set in modern or future times.

[Matty101]

horses should be in game but not ridable, have them
-Make noises if you get to close hoof stomp, neigh etc
-Moveable objects you can use to get up to places by pulling the reigns.
-Distraction object for guards if you throw rocks at them
-Lootable items in saddlebags

[darkmagicasorseer]

this is what I had to say in my poll thread about horses and domestic animals:

"if you're going to make horses impossible to use, then they might as well not be usable. Make it difficult instead is what I'm proposing:

1. make them extremely hard to steer (it's not your horse, you probably freaked it the hell out, and you don't have training in how to ride one = one hell of a time trying to control it).

2. Everyone with a bow now has a target who's easier to aim at since they don't have to worry about hitting pedestrians anymore...

3. No chance at stealth at all.

It would become what it should be... a quick escape, but not a viable means of quick or easy transportation."

Would Garrett own a horse? 90% sure he wouldn't - maybe there's one SOMEWHERE, in some back stable, being attended to by a poor farmer who doesn't understand why but someone is paying him to maintain the horse - but they are, and handsomely. This horse is used as THE last resort - Garret knows his stay in the city (between city watch, angry merchants and hammers, rival thieves, and now former keepers on the streets etc) is being worn thin, and he may have to get away... period, for good. So this horse could be his ticket out.

Would Garrett know how to ride a horse? Probably gathered how it worked from simple observation, but is by no means a master rider who can parade his horse around and make it leap over gates and what not.

As I said already, I maintain they should be ride-able, they should just come with their good number of disadvantages, such as hard control of steering (obviously the horse won't run headlong right into a wall though) and hard control of speed (said horse may instead instantly stop and buck you off). A horse should never be used as a primary means of transportation, but instead a last ditch effort at escape - or even a way of blowing through a blockade of guards or something. Obviously a stealthy approach would be more wise, but sometimes we just wanna have fun... am I right?

Brilliant comment... I'm about to have something interesting to write about. He he he...

[Davehall380]

If there is a desire to have horses in the game, then maybe we should implement them. However, actually having Garrett riding one grains with me somehow - maybe its the idea that the Horse is possibly the least Stealthy thing he could have. OK, so it could provide a getawat. But considering that most of the city is a maze with tight corridors and lofty spaces, isnt it easier for Garrett to escape the way he has for the past three games? From memory, most of the city is cordoned off at night into sections anyway - where would Garrett go?

[windwalker]

Maybe there are horses and horse riding guards and npc's in the game, but somehow horses act strange and afraid when Garret is close up? Another stealth breaker, excitement factor to take into consideration? (fluffwise, it might be some kind of taint from the trickster incident?) so player can't ride them?

[Davehall380]

Possibly . . .

What im struggling to get around right now is the need for horses. The city enviroment isn't the ideal place for them - crammped streets, high buildings, many sections gated of etc. It would add atmosphere to see mounted guards (maybe a hammerite?), but im concerned that it wouldn't quite fit in with the gameplay.

As for riding the horse (whilst fun), I think it falls under the same category - does it add significant utility to the gameplay to justify spending time coding etc the damn thing?

[Hypevosa]

I think it could be a fun dynamic - and if they include horses in the game at all in the way we wanted (even with guards riding them) the animations would already be there - you'd just need to apply Garrett to them.

I think that they'd be a realistic, and fun addition to the game. With the right balancing it also wouldn't take away from the emphasis on stealth.