THI4F RPG Ideas

[Contradictio In Terminis]

There is a thread asking how you could improve the replayability of the next Thief game and I started thinking...what if it had some RPG type aspects to it...so that even once the main game ends you can still play...kind of like Elder Scrolls...

That way there can be sidequests and the progression of days...that would greatly increase the amount of gameplay time.

It would also be interesting to see multiple story lines that interact with and change (slightly) the main story line...

Like let's say that you steal something from somewhere and sell it to a fence then later on in the game someone asks to trade something (such as information) for said item. You would then have to track down the item and steal it again (which I think would be pretty awesome)

What are some of your ideas that would make a THIEF Role-playing type game possible/probable?

[KuBiLaY17]

that idea of re-stealing certain items is a very cool idea, i like that. it would force players to take action before certain missions etc. like instead of buying equipment, players could choose to steal them or something.

[Contradictio In Terminis]

I never thought of that...it would be awesome if you could sell your stuff to a fence and then go and steal it and sell it to another fence...but make it so that they would eventually get suspicious of you, so you could only really do it once or twice and only if you really need to...

or make it to where you can steal a few items multiple times but you can only do a large haul once and maybe twice...

I also like the idea of being able to go and talk to people...that would enhance the game a lot to me...

[KuBiLaY17]

yeah, but not that silly talk you have in some games. like that you can get serieus information, about a secret entrance or a map. so you just need to find the right person to get information from before going to a mission. additional information that is, because most info you get from your fences and inside man.

[Hellion]

Leave the RPG elements to Deus Ex, I say.

In my most humble opinion, THIEF was always more of an action-adventure game oriented around fulfilling specifically set Objectives in specific missions via specific means. Side-quests, general stores and fences, progression of days, playable after the end...Good game, sure, but not a THIEF game.

[Prince_VLAD]

I HATE to see Thief changed into some freak hard core RPG game!!!! But I would like to see some RPG elements as a progress token in the game.If they would keep it simply with RPG elements I would be satisfied.

[Platinumoxicity]

Like let's say that you steal something from somewhere and sell it to a fence then later on in the game someone asks to trade something (such as information) for said item. You would then have to track down the item and steal it again (which I think would be pretty awesome)

Garrett would never steal from a fence he's selling to. They wouldn't trust him anymore and he would have trouble selling stolen things after that.

Other than that, I don't think Thief needs any RPG elements, especially not any skill progression system. It takes control out of the player's hands.

[DanielOcean]

Garrett would never steal from a fence he's selling to. They wouldn't trust him anymore and he would have trouble selling stolen things after that.


You just pointed out something very important: Garretts character! I also believe, that Garret would not do that. Everything we would like to see in the Game doesn't have to fit into the game-principle of Thief, or the character-principle of Garrett.

On the other hand, some (!!!) RPG elements could improve the game. By the way: There already were some RPG elements in thief 1+2: You were able to buy additional equiment before starting a new mission and it depended on the loot you had stolen in the mission before! You were also able to buy some "tips", so to speak additional information about the next mission.

And what is wrong with the following: If you want to purchase something you need (new arrows, whatsoever) but it is too expensive, you will have to steal it.

I would forebear from the idea of "skilling" Garrett or something like that. Garrett is a master thief, he doesn't have to "improve" his skills in sneaking, shooting, fighting, etc. That would ruin the game in my opinion...

[Contradictio In Terminis]

I would forebear from the idea of "skilling" Garrett or something like that. Garrett is a master thief, he doesn't have to "improve" his skills in sneaking, shooting, fighting, etc. That would ruin the game in my opinion...


most definitely...

I wouldn't want a Thief RPG as some seem to have taken it...I would want to see some elements from RPG's brought into Thief...

And someone said that Garret wouldn't steal from a fence...pft! You obviously don't know the same Garret that I do...Garret is all about self preservation...if it doesn't harm him or his goals he will go for it...

Plus, I like the concept of being able to still play the game after the main story line is done...open up the Thief world and give us hours upon hours of gameplay...

also, quick question...does anyone have a saved game that starts off inside of the keeper compound?

[huzi73]

Leave the RPG elements to Deus Ex, I say.

In my most humble opinion, THIEF was always more of an action-adventure game oriented around fulfilling specifically set Objectives in specific missions via specific means. Side-quests, general stores and fences, progression of days, playable after the end...Good game, sure, but not a THIEF game.

Every1 agrees T4= T1+T2 period,no rpg crap,no new protagonist,no new city,no new nothing!

[Platinumoxicity]

And someone said that Garret wouldn't steal from a fence...pft! You obviously don't know the same Garret that I do...Garret is all about self preservation...if it doesn't harm him or his goals he will go for it...


Yes you're right. He would do anything to preserve his business, to keep money flowing and to keep his ribs from meeting his spine. That includes upholding the "honor among thieves". He would never jeopardise his "job" to achieve short-term profit that leads to long-term loss. It's the stupidest thing that a real professional criminal would do. Word about him turning on his trusted thieves'-pawns would go around quickly and he would lose his livelihood. There's no discussion, only real fact.

But this thread is not about that so let's move along.

[Contradictio In Terminis]

Yes you're right. He would do anything to preserve his business, to keep money flowing and to keep his ribs from meeting his spine. That includes upholding the "honor among thieves". He would never jeopardise his "job" to achieve short-term profit that leads to long-term loss. It's the stupidest thing that a real professional criminal would do. Word about him turning on his trusted thieves'-pawns would go around quickly and he would lose his livelihood. There's no discussion, only real fact.

But this thread is not about that so let's move along.

first of all, if there are other thieves it wouldn't come back on him...

I am all for giving players the options to do what they will...if you want to steal from your fence, go ahead...

I wouldn't...but we should still have that freedom...like in T3 with the widow Edwina...I didn't steal the money from her although that would have put me at 100% loot...and as far as honor...LOL. You are seriously losing sight...we weren't talking about it just being random, we were talking about it being a part of the story line and as a part of the game play...if someone wants to end where they can get supplies let them...but give them freedom to make mistakes...that's the type of game that I want.

"Every1 agrees T4= T1+T2 period,no rpg crap,no new protagonist,no new city,no new nothing!"

and no...not everyone agrees...because T3 was excellent in my opinion. But then again, I'm no gamer fanboy like most seem to be. And there has been plenty of RPG "crap" as you put it in all of the games...if they added more then it would enhance the game...obviously you like most people are talking out of their ass.

Please, refrain from speaking for everyone while in this thread and any other future threads I might create.

No new nothing? Then why even ask for, need I say...a "NEW GAME!" seriously...you should just stop talking.

[DarthEnder]

If your talking RPG in the sense of character ability development, then that's a big no.

But if your talking about RPG in the sense that there's npc's you can speak to and choose different options for interacting with them that may give you bonus objectives or different methods of achieving objectives, then sure.

[Platinumoxicity]

I'm just going to say now what RPG elements are not welcome, not saying what should be implemented:
NO:
-Skill development system: You get better at playing the game by playing it, not by recieving points from repeated actions or buying tools that are more expensive.
-Open world with infinitely spawning people with infinite loot to steal: You want a challenge, not loads of money coming on a conveyer belt to you.
Weapon tuning or smithing: Your sword doesn't do more damage or become faster if you glue money to in in a shop.
Magic spells: Duh? Glyphs were too "in your face" in TDS already. They should have remained a mysterious force, not glowing symbols on walls with magical power and whatnot.
Encumberance or stamina: Nobody seemed to miss them in the last games, and they just wouldn't be fun.
Faction respect meters or alliances: Garrett doesn't respect or ally anyone.
Faction headquarters for all factions to be found in the city hub: All others except the Hammerites are secret organizations and their bases of operations, if they even have them, are very hard to find in a large city, for example when we are talking about the pagans who hate metal, bricks and glass.

[Ice1019]

I'm actually kind of interested with certain player customization elements. I wouldn't alter Garrett's own physical abilities, but I think the idea of Garrett being able to customize his equipment would be a fantastic idea. Since Garrett is not an Altair/Sam Fisher type ninja, he uses gadgets to succeed where he has physical shortcomings. To that end, Garrett needs some special gear that you can't find just lying around. I think it would be awesome if you could steal special parts from around the City that you can use to create more customized items. For example:

If you use the Bow a lot, maybe a compound bow upgrade to increase arrow velocity, or increase the amount of time you can spend with your arrow ready to fire.

If you like the flash bombs, how about an upgrade that keeps you from getting blinded by your own bomb, or an increase in the time it incapacitates guards.

One of the best things about the Thief games was the ability to play the way you wanted to. While I don't want to see too many RPG elements in Thief (leave skill points to DX3), I think adding certain levels of customization could enhance replayability and the immersion of the player.

[BlooferLady]

Hmm,

I personally found the factions helpful, if not totally in Garrett's character. Perhaps this is where we can throw in some more side quests. Even in fanatical factions, you're bound to get people who are willing to trade with him. Finding these folks and gaining their trust would be enough to keep me busy for an entire evening.

I also like the idea of getting to talk to people. Garrett's a loner, but he's got sources and "friends" who help him get set up for jobs. I've complained about having to fetch maps on the easter egg thread, and, after reading the ideas here, I'm kind of torn as to whether I would want to have to work through the underworld informant system to get the info I need for a mission. I'm a fan of RPG's, but some aspects of them, when mixed with Thief while trying to maintain the action/adventure aspect just make things more annoying.

Oh, but I can't really say I'd want to see a point system. Why do you need to level up? He's at the top of his game!

[Hypevosa]

As for stealing from your fence... NO, I don't think that should be a possibility, however - stealing from the person he fenced the item TO, I don't believe Garrett would have quarrels with.

As for the RPG "Elements" that thief could have, I would say since Garrett now has the glyphs under his control THAT is the only thing he could level up (you know, get used to using them). But the glyphs should never become the purpose of the game, it's Thief, not magic-man-in-dark-clothing. I could also see the ability to customize equpiment, such as new bow strings to give the arrows less arc, or a new bow site that has multiple markings for different distances for making different shots, or a bow string silencer so that *twang* doesn't give you away, getting a compound bow (look at the tech they have, it would be an easy stretch) so that he could pull back the string and hold it indefinitely without getting tired. Maybe even have rubber soles on your boots so that you don't make as much noise on tile and metal surfaces. Maybe even the passage of time could be used.

The only RPG elements I think the masses would accept without revolt are:

1. Gradual mastery of glyphs
2. Customization of equipment
3. Passage of time

[Contradictio In Terminis]

The only RPG elements I think the masses would accept without revolt are:

1. Gradual mastery of glyphs
2. Customization of equipment
3. Passage of time

that's sort of what I had in mind...

but it would include certain side missions altering the main quest...make it to where there are alternate storylines/endings that depend heavily on what missions you choose to do when and why.

Mostly to increase replayability.

Of course character development wouldn't really be useful...

but in light of the glyphs I was thinking, what if the glypths began to alter Garret in certain ways so that the more you use them the more they become involved in the story line?

That would be interesting to me...that way you could play the game like five times and it still wouldn't be the same game as when you first played it...

[Hypevosa]

so if you rely on the glyphs heavily and use them for things like murder, you become something like gamal was. If you use them intermitently and not for murder and what not you become more like the "true keeper". And if you use them hardly ever (or not at all) then you stay Garrett, master thief Garrett. I could see that.

[Master Taffer]

Garrett would never steal from a fence he's selling to. They wouldn't trust him anymore and he would have trouble selling stolen things after that.

Other than that, I don't think Thief needs any RPG elements, especially not any skill progression system. It takes control out of the player's hands.

I agree on both points.

Garrett seems to value good working relationships with his partners in crime, like fences and informants. I believe he would view ripping off a fence he just sold to very unprofessional and would hurt his rep in the criminal underworld. Being a thief ceases being profitable when you kill your working relationship with these people, as word spreads quickly. You rip off one fence, do you think any other fences will want to work with you? Probably not.

[GmanPro]

I'd say that there is a right way to incorporate some light rpg elements into a Thief game. TDS had some good ideas, and I'm hoping that EM can expand on this. As has been mentioned before, it shouldn't be anything too severe. Just the ability to spend your money where you want, to buy the unique items that you want etc. And also the ability to choose which side jobs you want to tackle.

[Alex50]

RPG elements will wonderfully be placed in game. In the beginning of game awkward weak Garrett. Escapes from the guard similarly to a turtle. Deafens the guard from 5-6 impacts on a nape. Trying to steal, makes awful noise. He gradually trains. Becomes very dexterous and fast. Runs similarly to a wind on water and air. Jumps through buildings and rivers. Deafens protection by a sight.
He has magic Glifs, which needs to be developed. It will allow Garrett to see secret marks of the Keepers. Then to become invisible. To pass through walls. To fill health from the deafened people and to accept their kind what easily to pass patrols of protection. And at last to recover statues, that they could destroy patrols. And many other opportunities. The perfect game will turn out which except for a cover will have nothing to show.
In the former versions Garrett all is skilful, the player studied. RPG should be in the equipment. The boots with a soft sole, various items which open different types of locks, Gradually opening of access to purchase of the equipment and presence at city of the foremen making exclusive items.
Excuse me for my sarcasm in this subject

[hexhunter]

I think being able to use the odd glyph would be interesting, you should have to buy them from Keeper Scribes, and they could do things similiar to potions, quite what they might do I'm not sure, we haven't seen that many Glyphs in action.

[Platinumoxicity]

RPG elements will wonderfully be placed in game. In the beginning of game awkward weak Garrett. Escapes from the guard similarly to a turtle. Deafens the guard from 5-6 impacts on a nape. Trying to steal, makes awful noise. He gradually trains. Becomes very dexterous and fast. Runs similarly to a wind on water and air. Jumps through buildings and rivers. Deafens protection by a sight.
He has magic Glifs, which needs to be developed. It will allow Garrett to see secret marks of the Keepers. Then to become invisible. To pass through walls. To fill health from the deafened people and to accept their kind what easily to pass patrols of protection. And at last to recover statues, that they could destroy patrols. And many other opportunities. The perfect game will turn out which except for a cover will have nothing to show.
In the former versions Garrett all is skilful, the player studied. RPG should be in the equipment. The boots with a soft sole, various items which open different types of locks, Gradually opening of access to purchase of the equipment and presence at city of the foremen making exclusive items.

Those are the most ridiculous things ever brought up in a discussion about a Thief game. :D No question about it.

[Yotun]

Ok here's my opinion.

NO RPG elements. NONE. Nothing whatsoever. No fine-tuning of weapons, no small gain of new abilities, no customization of Garrett, no mastery of glyphs, or upgrading your eye so you don't get blinded, or adapting your boots to make fewer noise, or changing your bow so you can hold the arrow notched for longer.

Garrett starts at mission 1, with the same abilitites he has at the final mission. The only variation is what equipment he chooses to purchase pre-mission, and even their, there is no huge 'improvement of equipment' as he gets to later missions.

If they wanted to create a Thief RPG they should have started a new franchise,not Thief 4. Thief is NOT an RPG. Its at most an action adventure game, where you control a character with specific abilities. I do NOT want to start playing at mission 1, knowing that I will be getting more 'powerful' as the game progresses, or gaining new abilities - I do NOT want to think 'Imagine playing mission 1 with the abilities you get by the time you're in mission 12'. There are games where these things have their place, and Thief is not one of them. Thief is in essence a minimalistic experience - it's not Deus Ex where you have a choice on what style to use to play - in Thief you have very specific and defined abilities, and the choise comes from deciding how to use those very defined abilities to accomplish a goal in a very immersive, realistic environment.

If they change the fundamental Thief experience to that extend I will be VERY disappointed. Such game mechanics should be left for other games.

Replayability in Thief should come from offering large, expansive maps with many routes and many approaches to a destination, and many ways to deal with problems given what Garrett can do, not by giving RPG choices and having multiple possible paths you can take to develop your Thief. You have ONE thief, with ONE set of abilities, which can be used in many different ways in the maps.

[Vae]

Exactly Yotun. I couldn't agree more.

The THIEF experience is designed to make you the player utilize more and more of your creative intelligence. The THIEF game experience actually trains the player to go up in level. That is the sublime beauty of THIEF.

[Hypevosa]

[...]The only variation is what equipment he chooses to purchase pre-mission, and even their, there is no huge 'improvement of equipment' as he gets to later missions.

[...]Its at most an action adventure game[...]

Replayability in Thief should come from offering large, expansive maps with many routes and many approaches to a destination, and many ways to deal with problems given what Garrett can do, not by giving RPG choices and having multiple possible paths you can take to develop your Thief. You have ONE thief, with ONE set of abilities, which can be used in many different ways in the maps.

For the first point WRONG. How can you possibly claim that the equipment doesn't drastically improve? Did you not look at what you were offered? You gain more easy access to fire arrows, gas weaponry, mines, speed potions and invisibility potions, some of the most powerful tools in the game, that you'd only be so lucky to find in a mission, you now can buy them. There was most definitely a gradual progression in power of purchasable mission upgrades.

Thief is a stealth game, if you're experiencing alot of action at all, you are NOT doing your job.

But I must completely agree with your final statements. Replayability should come in the intricacy of level design, the choice of path to destination, and not from changing Garrett. Garrett is a thief who's reached the level cap in his universe, and needs no more training or learning in any area a thief is familiar with, and he should never change from being a thief (it's in the friggin title).

[Contradictio In Terminis]

...the choise comes from deciding how to use those very defined abilities to accomplish a goal in a very immersive, realistic environment.

Replayability in Thief should come from offering large, expansive maps with many routes and many approaches to a destination, and many ways to deal with problems given what Garrett can do, not by giving RPG choices and having multiple possible paths you can take to develop your Thief. You have ONE thief, with ONE set of abilities, which can be used in many different ways in the maps.

but the point of an RPG is to be able to immerse yourself in a realistic environment. And I frankly don't see how a few added elements or being able (not required) to progress as a character would take anything away from the game.

God forbid there is actually real character development in this game!

Besides...he isn't finished with the Trickster...and if you look carefully at the STORYLINE which is what we are mostly talking about enhancing through RPG elements, it would fit in very nicely.

I could probably care less about the game play because the story line is what drew me into thief and makes me want to play the fourth one.

And I think most will agree, RPG's tend to have a lot better storyline than first person shooters/stealth games.

The main RPG element I would like to see is multiple storylines that can intersect and interact with each other.

Instead of being forced into a story line I feel that the game would improve greatly if you were to be able to push the story line along in ways that you want to.

[Contradictio In Terminis]

Exactly Yotun. I couldn't agree more.

The THIEF experience is designed to make you the player utilize more and more of your creative intelligence. The THIEF game experience actually trains the player to go up in level. That is the sublime beauty of THIEF.

So in other words you like RPG elements in Thief.

we are not talking about turning thief into an RPG we are talking about adding certain elements to it to enhance not only the gameplay the first time around but also to enhance replayability.

Read the thread before you post, seriously.

[Contradictio In Terminis]

Replayability should come in the intricacy of level design, the choice of path to destination, and not from changing Garrett. Garrett is a thief who's reached the level cap in his universe, and needs no more training or learning in any area a thief is familiar with, and he should never change from being a thief (it's in the friggin title).

Wrong. :mad2:

Did you guys completely forget about the Trickster and how he was basically saying to Garret "I am so coming for you!" in Deadly Shadows?

The Trickster already changed Garret. The story line is about how Garret does change, not remain the same.

To give the game a more personal touch you should be able to control to a slight degree how the storyline effects Garret.

We aren't talking about how well he can thieve, that's already been proven. We are talking about Garret changing from say a thief to a keeper along to way and possibly into something else.

Garret has made many moral decisions in the past games and I would like to see these decisions placed in our hands instead of in the hands of mission briefings.

Make sense?

again, read the thread before you, guys.

:mad2:

[Master Taffer]

While you're banging your head against the wall, please take note that the title of the thread is Thief RPG. RPG tends to be associated with leveling and skill building mechanics to create a charecter the way you play it. What you described in your post is branching charecter development, which is not exclusive to RPGs.

[GmanPro]

The one thing that all RPG's have in common is the feeling that the character is doing stuff that you command him to do, rather than you the player doing those things yourself. In that sense, Thief should remain apart from most RPG elements.

[Master Taffer]

The one thing that all RPG's have in common is the feeling that the character is doing stuff that you command him to do, rather than you the player doing those things yourself.

Uhm....What?

Perhaps you can elaborate more on that statement, because I fail to see the difference there...

[GmanPro]

I'll use Deus Ex and Thief as examples because they are both somewhat similar and yet the differences are there.

In Deus Ex, JC Denton would hack computers when you press the hack button. Based off the skill points spent in computers the hack would take a long time or it would happen quickly. If you don't put points into training of the gun you are using, then the accuracy is lousy and reload times are long. Having a low skill in lockpicking/electronics means that you need more tools to bypass securities etc.

In Thief, the player has direct control. Your ability to hide in shadows isn't measured by some abstract skill point system, but rather by the players skill alone.

Maybe the best example would be more traditional RPG's like Baldur's Gate (because DX had a lot of action elements after all). In BG its completely obvious. You click on your enemy and the character does the fighting. You can only tell him to do something, but he's the one who has to do it.

[Master Taffer]

AH, I think I get it now. Gracias.

You're saying that in Thief, Garrett has the ability to do everything from the git-go, and there for everything is dependant on the players personal skill. On the flip side, in charecter development type games like Deus Ex and System Shock, your success has less to do with the player's skill, but rather how well the charecter has been developed towards the activity in question.

Would this be correct?

[GmanPro]

Pretty much yah.

In so far as your items can make or break your success in a mission, I think there is some room for rpg elements in a Thief game. The trick would be to balance your supplies so that you cant afford to buy half the city like in TDS. Then, special items like climbing gloves would become more valuable.

I'm not sure if I want to commit to making it so that the player couldn't afford to buy every special item in one playthrough or not. It might be enough just to make them as expensive/rare to the point where it takes you till way late in the game to be able to get all of them.

[hellwalker]

RPG elements in game mechanics ? burn it! Thief is pure stealth.
screw your upgrades

RPG like world interaction? would be great. side quests, exploration, interacting with characters would make game richer.

but levels in stealth atrributes ? meh boring. I want to have a set in stone understandable abilities for my character, and then challenge in using this set skills.Upgradable quiter movement, or better hiding in shadows, or better at stabbing ppl would just suck. I don't want chance/persentage system ruining my gameplay. It would just make game annoying. You carefully sneak behind someone, stand in perfect position, bang them in the head and BOOM, failed backstabing, alarmed guards. And imagine the stupidity of leveling this skill? Hitting random passers by in the streets like some crazed idiot. yay for master thief. Or creeping slowly on the tiles and making loud sound via quite walking skill fail, It's just lame.

upgradable gear also sux imo, slow introduction of new gear works well enough for me.

[Vae]

Exactly Yotun. I couldn't agree more.

The THIEF experience is designed to make you the player utilize more and more of your creative intelligence. The THIEF game experience actually trains the player to go up in level. That is the sublime beauty of THIEF.

So in other words you like RPG elements in Thief.

we are not talking about turning thief into an RPG we are talking about adding certain elements to it to enhance not only the gameplay the first time around but also to enhance replayability.

Read the thread before you post, seriously.

While you're banging your head against the wall, please take note that the title of the thread is Thief RPG. RPG tends to be associated with leveling and skill building mechanics to create a charecter the way you play it. What you described in your post is branching charecter development, which is not exclusive to RPGs.

Contradictio, listen carefully to the wisdom of those who know the difference between an RPG and the true nature of THIEF before you post, seriously.

[Vae]

RPG elements in game mechanics ? burn it! Thief is pure stealth.
screw your upgrades

RPG like world interaction? would be great. side quests, exploration, interacting with characters would make game richer.

but levels in stealth atrributes ? meh boring. I want to have a set in stone understandable abilities for my character, and then challenge in using this set skills.Upgradable quiter movement, or better hiding in shadows, or better at stabbing ppl would just suck. I don't want chance/persentage system ruining my gameplay. It would just make game annoying. You carefully sneak behind someone, stand in perfect position, bang them in the head and BOOM, failed backstabing, alarmed guards. And imagine the stupidity of leveling this skill? Hitting random passers by in the streets like some crazed idiot. yay for master thief. Or creeping slowly on the tiles and making loud sound via quite walking skill fail, It's just lame.

upgradable gear also sux imo, slow introduction of new gear works well enough for me.

Exactly.

RPG game mechanics = NO + NEVER
Role Playing world interaction = YES

[Knight]

Good idea, but just a little rpg style, just u can play after the main quest, and very much side quests.

[Contradictio In Terminis]

While you're banging your head against the wall, please take note that the title of the thread is Thief RPG. RPG tends to be associated with leveling and skill building mechanics to create a charecter the way you play it. What you described in your post is branching charecter development, which is not exclusive to RPGs.

I know what the title of the thread is...I made it...

"RPG tends to be associated with..."

your wording right there should have stopped you in your tracks...but apparently people aren't learned in being able to tell when they have just spoken a load of bull.

[Contradictio In Terminis]

Contradictio, listen carefully to the wisdom of those who know the difference between an RPG and the true nature of THIEF before you post, seriously.


you don't know me...so your opinion about what I may or may not know is invalid...

I clearly stated that the STORYLINE should have RPG elements...

the game should remain stealth obviously...

learn to read the post, which includes between the lines before you jump to conclusions...makes you look silly.

[jtr7]

Don't look in the mirror much, do you?


Anyway, ignoring the massive production time and budget needed for a modestly-sized development team, in a company that has yet to release their first title, on a deadline and budget, it would be interesting as a Thief-Adventurer game, but not Thief. Download Dark Radiant and get the Dark Mod and produce this as an FM.

[Master Taffer]

Hm, an open ended adventure game where you can develop your charecter as you choose, joining the factions you wish...

*Gets to typing the design document.*

Side note: You win more people over with honey rather than vinegar, Contradictio.

[Nate]

Does this mean you also want multiple endings for the main story based on your choices?

[Hypevosa]

I can see where they would make the game that way... but I don't see WHY they'd make it that way personally. It doesn't really add anything to the game in my opinion... I guess you could argue replayability, but honestly people will just go online and look up the alternate endings if they're so compelled. Focus more on one good story and good gameplay than on multiple endings.

[jtr7]

If one finds the game so boring they need to add more to it, then the game is probably a waste of that one's money. Thief is highly replayable, and if one doesn't believe so, go play a different kind of game, and stop meddling with those who appreciate it.


I'm hoping for one good story, because that is quite an accomplishment by itself. Let these guys prove themselves first.

[DarthEnder]

I like to think of it in terms of Escape From Butcher Bay.

Rid**** doesn't level up, or learn new skills and abilities as you progress through Butcher Bay.

What he does do, is talk to npcs, get information, sometimes get extras "objectives" from them.


In Thief terms, say Garrett needs to rob a mansion. While sneaking around the streets outside the mansion, Garret finds a bum in an alley. The bum has a problem where some Watch guard took something precious to him. If you go get it back, the bum will give you some info on a secret entrance to the mansion. Or maybe a key he found. Or maybe he gives you his stash of water crystals.

That kind of thing I'd love to see implemented into Thief.

[Aristofiles]

i see no point. the only reason games add deffrent endings and things like that is to increase the replay value. If T4 is made the way i like i will replay it over and over agin just to get a perfect stealth game ot find all secrets.

I think its important for a game to stay focused and dont loose itself into elements that dont fit into the original concept. Go back to basis and make it better instead

[fayfuya]

Damn, i can imagine Garrett stealing the Bloodline Opal, sells it to Heartless Perry, steal it from him and sell it in the docks, steal it again and sell it in old quarter, steals it again!! sells it to the Rutherfords! he goes to stonemarket proper! sells it thre! and steal again!! goes to the Cradle and sell it to a puppet! then steals it again! then sells it to himself!! and steal it again!!! he goes to Heartless Perry! and sells it to him again!!!!!
wtf guys...maybe only once or twice but not more than that, it will get too easy.

[Myth]

fayfuya go and play the first two games really your TDS only biased opinions are becoming rather annoying.

On topic - no RPG. If you are a heavy RPG mindraped kid, think of Garrett as "maxed out" - he can outsneak the keepers and the Trickster. There is no room for improvement in his skills. And shut up about those damn weapon upgrades and eye upgrades and whatnot - plenty of WoW to go around go play that!

[Hypevosa]

Garrett is a dual class keeper thief, who has reached level 50 (epic level), has 62 for his score in lockpicking, move silently, hide in shadows, and appraise (look up synergies and add his dex bonus).

He need get no better, it would be excessive....

[Platinumoxicity]

The very first time I started playing "Lord Bafford's Manor demo", Garrett sucked. He was... like... level 1. In about the time of... Release, in this nice level called "Lord Bafford's Manor", Garrett rocked! He was something in the lines of level 50 (epic level) :D