CLOTHING: Apparel / Attire / Garments Discussion (Garrett & Other Characters)

[Espion]

Could we have Garrett dressed up like he was in the first two games instead of the third. Specifically, please don't give him that awful vest again. Sleeves over the arms please, and if the player has a visible shadow, please make it clear that he's wearing his cloak :) Thank you.

[VIKTORIA]

A good idea for a dedicated thread, apparel is important! :cool: :D

Let's discuss Garrett and other townsfolk.

[Herr_Garrett]

Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

[Stoic]

Hmmmm . . . a cloak that tends to flow well would certainly be nice. I would think that the graphics engine should be enough to handle a decent cloak.

[Hellion]

He should DEFINITELY wear a hooded dark cloak as seen in the cutscenes of the first 2 games. What goes under the cloak does not really interest me.

[acridrose]

I for one see apparel as less significant because Garrett is not a very 'physical' character- he is a shadow and a voice, and this non-material presence that he is helps him sneak about. I think garrett should stick true to what he is in T1&2 which is a cloaked figure with a mechanical eye in T2 that sticks out through his shadow.. no more than that- maybe even faceless.

[Espion]

Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

I should clarify that I really meant the Garrett you see in the cutscenes.

If I recally correctly, the character model in Thief one was a large brown rectangle of some sort :scratch:

Whilst you could see yourself in Thief 2 they were obviously limited by technology.

Now remember that, except for remote eyes, you're hardly going to see yourself beyond your arms but the main point that should be focused on is his large black cloak that he's always wearing. Whilst it's well established that cloaks are rarely practical, it's part of who Garrett is. With the tech as powerful as it is now, there's no reason why we can't have a lovely cloak that flaps in the digital wind :)

Oh, and also sleeeeeves! That vest really was nasty :P

[DarthEnder]

Right, cutscene Garrett in T1 and T2 is perfect.

Ingame Garrett model in T1 and T2...not so much.

[Icky6]

Nice thread, and something I'd totally forgotten about. The big cloak is definitely part of Garrett's look. Not that I want to see him in 3rd person or anything. Just in cut scenes.

[VIKTORIA]

Just to say, don't get too confused between the thread title and OP's first post. We can talk about Garrett but ALSO other characters in the game when it comes to apparel. :)

EDIT:
I've amended title slightly to show that this can be a general clothing discussion for all characters, not just Garrett.

[acridrose]

Let's talk about our favourite wood nymph's apparel, Viktoria. What clothes should she have in this reboot of thief? :rasp: dream on.

[Espion]

Let's talk about our favourite wood nymph's apparel, Viktoria. What clothes should she have in this reboot of thief? :rasp: dream on.

Unless she's disguised and walking amongst normal people she should be butt-naked as normal... Though tree bark doesn't really do it for me... Kind of scratchy o_O

I can't quite recall what it was, but there was something that seemed very "off" about the character models used in Deadly Shadows. I think it might've been the zealous use of normal maps (which usually results in everyone having a shiny gloss to them) but I think they'd also altered the visual style of the Hammer's... I'm trying to find screenshots to remind myself...

Ok, I can't find anything at the moment and I'm being called away to play a game so I'll talk about it later, but there was something about them that looked wrong!

[Thieffanman]

Garret's apparel in Thief 3 was *okay*; the thing I'm wondering is, should it evolve slightly?

Taken Assassin's Creed, for example: the Middle AgesCrusades Altair wore medieval clothes. The released artwork for the Renaissance-era Altair has him wearing a short cape and a doublet.

So . . . if the Thief World has evolved from medieval village goth/steampunk, should Garret have a doublet, maybe a short cape . . .

Or don't mess with a good thing, and leave the clothes from T3 as they are.

--Thieffanman

[acridrose]

Garret's apparel in Thief 3 was *okay*; the thing I'm wondering is, should it evolve slightly?

Taken Assassin's Creed, for example: the Middle AgesCrusades Altair wore medieval clothes. The released artwork for the Renaissance-era Altair has him wearing a short cape and a doublet.

So . . . if the Thief World has evolved from medieval village goth/steampunk, should Garret have a doublet, maybe a short cape . . .

Or don't mess with a good thing, and leave the clothes from T3 as they are.

--Thieffanman

Although I HATE referring to Assassin's Creed on this board (just because they are very different games), you raise a very good point- one thing to note is the incredible design for Altair- his attire represents who he is very well, right down to the 'beak' tip of his hood. He is a good example of a genuinely inspiring character model.

[Flashart]

What about level specific clothing? If there was some swimming involved perhaps a "short" cloak.
Or a full length waterproofed (leather?) for torrential rain in the city.
The colors in TDS were a little washed out so peoples clothes looked very ordinary, it'd be good to see some bright colors, if only for ease of spotting potential trouble.

[Tatyana's Flowers]

Clothes from all previous Thief games that can change depending on mission demands...

[Espion]

Ok, I've found some good images on The Dark Wiki:

Hammerites in Thief 2 (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/thief/images/0/02/DromEd_Object_Model_hamsol01_%26_hamsol02.jpg).

Compared to:

Hammerites in Thief DS (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/thief/images/a/a3/TDS_HammerGuards.JPG).

Besides the OTT normal maps that make the leather armour look like crocodile skin and the material look quilted, my biggest beef with the DS versions are the colouring and the complete lack of a Hammer on their armour.

In TG and TMA you get these religious soldiers all dressed up in their shiny metal armour, the bright red cloth, and adorned with the symbol of their church. These guys are meant to be religious warriors, zealots in fact, so they should have a little more identifying marks than the weapon they carry and the colour red.

Whilst the DS version clearly looks like they're going for a gritty, perhaps more realistic, look they've basically lost everything that made a Hammerite stand out from a common mercenary. Why are they suddenly wearing leather? It's not like the Hammers have a shortage of metal (they have their own mines, foundries and smiths, usually in their churces). I know they lost some when the mechanists split, but that should surely just mean they have a ton of extra suits lying around :P

Whilst I accept that they'd be dirty there's no reason why the red cloth would suddenly be so much darker. It looked more like the game was suffering from the classic thinking of "if it's dark/brown then it's more realistic."

These guys are meant to be fanatical and passionate. They're not gonna dress so drably and they're certainly not gonna go out with nothing but the Hammer on their back.

As far as attire for the Hammers go, I'd like to see something a little closer to the original design. It's still possible to make them look more realistic (if that's what DS was after) but they need to resemble a holy soldier more than a thug.

[Thieffanman]

Re: Other characters's clothes--

My minor gripe with DS was that the women were largely dressed the same: form-fitted dress. The only way to really tell if they were Pagan priestesses, ordinary townsfolk, or what-have-you is to get up close to them.

T4 should have different body types or shapes. Using European historical fashions as a model, perhaps wealthy women should be dressed in clothes that resemble gowns with hoops (not to mention *tons* of jewelry to swipe ;)), whereas poorer women should have simple, more form-fitting clothes with barely a pouch full of coins.

In DS, the wealthy men of Auldale wore long tunics that almost resembled dresses, whereas in Old Quarter and the Docks you had them dressed more like day laborers. I liked it; T4 should expand upon this.

--Thieffanman

[Squall]

Yeah the cloak is a must! It would make him lose his form in the shadows. I always found it a little annoying how easy Garrett was to spot in thief DS in 3rd person mode.

As for the townsfolk I agree that there should be more character models. Where are all the stooped hobbling beggars and shambling hooded shapes?

I just hope the engine is better for this game so that the fabric and hair can move better. If they can't get Garretts cloak to flap in the wind then NO 3RD PERSON MODE! Hehehe

[Hypevosa]

I agree, the Garrett from the first 2 games' cut scenes is probably the best model for what he should look like. In terms of clothing, just better looking graphics wise from the other games... maybe a few new models. Not every single piece has to be different, because styles were prominent and so people would wear the same stuff. Unique characters should probably wear unique things, maybe even have an unusually... fabulous character.

[DarthEnder]

Although I HATE referring to Assassin's Creed on this board (just because they are very different games), you raise a very good point- one thing to note is the incredible design for Altair- his attire represents who he is very well, right down to the 'beak' tip of his hood. He is a good example of a genuinely inspiring character model.Well, I love referring to AC. :p

Nevertheless, Altair's outfit, but in black, would be pretty epic. In fact, I already thought Altair basically looked like Garrett but in white.

[Hypevosa]

Well, I love referring to AC. :p

Nevertheless, Altair's outfit, but in black, would be pretty epic. In fact, I already thought Altair basically looked like Garrett but in white.

I had the same exact opinion. I saw Altair and I pointed it out to my friend and was like LOOK It's Garrett! and he was like "?" so I had to explain to him about the awesomeness of thief and who Garrett was.

[Limesneeker]

Actually the black leather cloak and clothing (included gloves) which Garrett wears on the Thief 2 box cover is nice....

[Garrett21]

Garrett: similar to Dominus's concept

[BlooferLady]

I'm going to be the annoying voice of reason. I would say no cloak on missions. As any woman would know from wearing a long skirt, the more fabric you have flapping about, the harder it is for you to move. I would list all the trouble you could get into wearing a cloak when you know you're going to have to fight/climb/sneak, but Disney's done a great job already: http://video.ugo.com/player.aspx?articleID=12992

It's just not practical. He does look rather dashing in it, though. :) Actually, when you watch the cutscenes from TDP, he's not wearing a cape. Not that what he is wearing is the height of fashion. Perhaps only in the city hubs, where he would have to conceal his face, what with all those wanted posters about.

I would like some variety in the social classes you see around the city. You had nobles, thugs, merchants, and barmaids, and each of these groups was mostly one gender.

My only other attire idea would be to make the clothing fall and move more naturally. Those skirts in TDS looked like elastic bands! I'm sure that's really hard to animate, but it's something I notice.

[Espion]

I'm going to be the annoying voice of reason. I would say no cloak on missions. As any woman would know from wearing a long skirt, the more fabric you have flapping about, the harder it is for you to move.

You're absolutely right that cloaks are impractical and I'm always an avid supporter of common sense... However ;)

I practise the Japanese martial art Iaido. If anyone else here has done or seen any kind of Iaido then they'll know that the Hakama (the trousers) and the Gi (the shirt) are very baggy, flappy, sheets of material (less so with a standard Gi however higher Dan students can get Gi with much baggier sleeves). As a beginner it can be difficult to move effectively in them without tripping up, but with lots of time and practise you get used to it.

This is done through a combination of moving in the right way and using a handy bit of rope to tie back some of the baggier pieces of material as you enter combat. Well trained students can do this very quickly and it's often a sign of such skill that if you were to challenge someone back in the day and they were able to prepare themselves in such a way you'd think twice about following through on your challenge because the chances were extremely high that your head was about to separate itself from your body in a timely fashion.

Now I'm NOT suggesting that this be made into a gameplay mechanic and that there be a "tie cloak back" key. That would be dumb. I'm just pointing out that it would be possible and fairly useful for a Thief to wear a long cloak.

During the mission, due to his training, he'd be able to move without it getting in the way (remember cloaks aren't bound all the way down to encircle the body like a skirt so they can be thrown back behind you) as well as being able to shroud himself with it when needing to hide in a shadow. Likewise, when he's out of a mission he'd be able to conceal all his weapons and his collossal loot bag as he walks the streets (though obviously he'd be taking the Thieves Highway instead of walking at street level :rasp:

If the average Joe were to wear a cloak and run from rooftop to rooftop, he'd probably trip, get it caught on something and end up hanging himself. When it comes to Garrett, I think we can assume that he's practised and trained enough to pull the look off without endangering himself.

Besides... It looks cool :cool: (Such a terrible reason to do something normally but sometimes you can let it slide).

[Petike the Taffer]

Espion :

I agree, the Hammer guards should have more inconography on their armor and there should be more Hammerite guards or knights with partial plate mail (there are a few examples of such in TDS FMs).

But please... not the awful, massive fairytalish cuirasses they wear in TDP and TMA ! They're absolutely ridiculous. Subtle plate mail shoulder-, arm- and leg-guards, would be much better (that's how they moded some of the Hammer's in several TDS FMs and it looked really convincing and good). All in all, I'm for a more varied and improved TDS-inspired look.

[Master Taffer]

An observant person will notice Garrett doesn't wear a cloak in the briefing cutscenes of Thief 1 & 2. Garrett likely doesn't wear a cloak on the job, as it's a long piece of fabric that will likely hinder his movements and agility and get caught on things while he works. The bad outweighs the benefit of it concealing a human figure in the shadows.

[PiCroft]

something I think might be interesting is the ability to alter one's attire if third person is going to be used.

obviously this is irrelevant if it is first-person only, but I doubt that will be the case.

[Aristofiles]

im a big fan of the cloak. It makes him look a bit scarry :) One of the sadest part of TDS was to see how small and silly he looked like without it... so skinny.

Think thay can get the effect i want without the cloak though, just give him clothes that aint that slimmed. And perhaps if there is any outdoors mission in the city for example he can have his cloak on again.

when he enters a mission he probably just throws it away in a shrub or something untill he gets back out again.

[ToMegaTherion]

Who cares about realism, cloaks are just badass.

[Hypevosa]

im a big fan of the cloak. It makes him look a bit scarry :) One of the sadest part of TDS was to see how small and silly he looked like without it... so skinny.

Think thay can get the effect i want without the cloak though, just give him clothes that aint that slimmed. And perhaps if there is any outdoors mission in the city for example he can have his cloak on again.

when he enters a mission he probably just throws it away in a shrub or something untill he gets back out again.

slimmed clothes are necessary for ease of movement. A cloak provides a few potential benefits, mainly melting into shadows, disorienting a foe in close combat, disarming a foe in close combat, something they can grab and it will break away leaving them temporarily distracted while you run. Cloaks have had many many uses. But most of them I don't think they could incorporate into the game unfortunately.

[kaekaelyn]

Realism? What is this realism of which you speak? Garrett can somehow carry loads of loot without lugging around a big clunky loot bag that jingles when he walks. In fact, in TDS he somehow crams huge framed portraits into this invisible repository without exerting even the slightest bit of effort. I think the cloak is the least of our problems if we want to make Thief into a totally realistic game, and my gut tells me we really don't.

So, a cool black cloak for Garrett, all the way!

[Drackulis]

Guys what do you think?
Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?:scratch:
I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.
So... Here you can post new ideas.:D

[Hamadriyad]

I want cloak. I don't care what is under it. And they must not show what is under it. Even Garrett's face. Like T1 and T2.

[Drackulis]

I want cloak. I don't care what is under it. And they must not show what is under it. Even Garrett's face. Like T1 and T2.

Do you mean no third person mode???:confused::confused::confused:
Better to have first and third person mode.... And meaby second person too:lmao::lol:

[Platinumoxicity]

Guys what do you think?
Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?:scratch:
I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.
So... Here you can post new ideas.:D

Altaïr's suit is a multiple-layer heat reducing apparel, used by many different desert cultures for cooling the body in constant heat, and it's effects have hardly anything to do with the clothes' white color. Garrett wouldn't have any use for clothes like Altaïr's in the cold and wet City, even if they were black.

Garrett should wear the cloak he used in the cutscenes. The reason he uses that is that it conceals his natural human shape in the dark as well as hides any shiny things that he might have with him. (And don't try to say that the cloak is only his City-outfit. We can clearly see in the intro videos of T1, T2, TDS and Soulforge that he's wearing the cloak during missions too.)

[AbysmalGale]

Do you mean no third person mode???:confused::confused::confused:
Better to have first and third person mode.... And meaby second person too:lmao::lol:

Yeah, we mean NO 3rd person mode!! PLEASE! Thief was never made to be a 3rd person game. It's a 1st person sneaker. No more, no less! 3rd person in TDS was a big mistake!

And yup, I want the cloak back! Garrett is kind of naked without his cloak!

[Hamadriyad]

I don't think 3rd person was a mistake. I enjoyed. But of course First person is better, because Thief is First Person Sneaker. Anyway, he must wear cloak, even in 3rd person,maybe especially for 3rd person.(If there will be a 3rd person.)

[Shadow Blade]

I agree with the cloak bring it back. In TDS garret didnt quite look like himself without his trend setting cloak. Maybe in Thief 4 they could give us the option to customize his outfit or buy new ones that could give him armour bonuses , speed bonuses when running, increased gadget capacity, make your foot steps a little softer or just plain look jaw droppingly awesome. If u want to change your outfit u could just go back to ur home/safehourse. There is so much that could be done with thief 4 the possibilites are astounding.

[Platinumoxicity]

Maybe in Thief 4 they could give us the option to customize his outfit or buy new ones that could give him armour bonuses , speed bonuses when running, increased gadget capacity, make your foot steps a little softer or just plain look jaw droppingly awesome. If u want to change your outfit u could just go back to ur home/safehourse. There is so much that could be done with thief 4 the possibilites are astounding.

How about no?

[Blade_hunter]

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9738/thiefrender.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thiefrender.jpg)

[AbysmalGale]

how about no?

i second that!

[kin]

What about a new look Garrett?
I will answer with a question.
Was there any need to even think about Garrett's clothes in the first 2 thief games?

[VIKTORIA]

I will answer with a question.
Was there any need to even think about Garrett's clothes in the first 2 thief games?

Very good question, that. :D :naughty:

[Hamadriyad]

I looked at Garrett with remote eye when I played T2. There was no cloak! It was a real shock.

[jermi]

Good grief. How similar to Assassin's Creed do you people want Thief 4 to be? 90, 100 or 110 percent?

[clock12345]

garrett should look like in thief 3 but only with cloak and he must not reavel his face only half of it and his mechanical eye in theif 3 was perfect i liked it it should stay so the look stays but you must add the cloak and the mechanical eye to stay the cloak is usage if he falls of a building then he can fly down slowly for couple of seconds and the mechanical eye should be as a night vision like thief 3 so 3rd person should stay.

[DarthEnder]

I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.I was under the impression that that's already how Garrett dresses. The first time I saw Altair I immediately thought "Hey look, it's Garrett only in white."

[Thieffanman]

AC/ AC2 comparison: In the Assassin's Creed games, Altair's costume (kind of) reflects the clothing of that historical period-- with some fantasy elements involved in his costume, for sure.

If T4 reflected some kind of evolution in the timeline of the "Thief" universe --say, from 'medieval-goth-steampunk' to 'renaissance-goth-steampunk'-- then Garrett's clothes should reflect that.

*If* that happens, the question then becomes how will Eidos show this :). I'd love to see design concepts for Garrett in a doublet, pants, knee-high or thigh-high boots, and maybe more exotic weaponry to match: a crossbow, maybe a small scimitar or rapier instead of a shortsword or dagger.

--Thieffanman

[Hypevosa]

I was under the impression that that's already how Garrett dresses. The first time I saw Altair I immediately thought "Hey look, it's Garrett only in white."

I did the same thing. I was like THEY STOLE GARRETT!!!

It's probably one of the reasons I started looking at the game and bought it honestly...

[Hamadriyad]

[QUOTE=

If T4 reflected some kind of evolution in the timeline of the "Thief" universe --say, from 'medieval-goth-steampunk' to 'renaissance-goth-steampunk'-- then Garrett's clothes should reflect that.



--Thieffanman[/QUOTE]

Thief is only medieval, not renaissance or something.

[Hypevosa]

Thief is only medieval, not renaissance or something.

well all renaissance was was medieval where culture was blooming. Art was more appreciated, invention and philosophy were not seen as a simple waste of time. I'd rather be a renaissance thief personally because of all the extra goodies coming out of it, than a medieval thief where people were still mainly poor.

However, until the war taxes go away that the baron imposed, people probably wouldn't have enough money for a renaissance to start...

[Hamadriyad]

Renaissance was a reaction to gothic. Thief atmosphere is completely gothic.So, if they bring renaissance, atmosphere will change.

[Knight]

I think the game in more exciting in 1st person, so dont be 3rd person, but when u go to menu/character then u should see garrett, and garrett can be rotated, and hes need a cloak, cape (first do without cape, and when the other things are done, try with cape, and when its better with it, then keep it, when not, then leave it), and CLOSED dress, accommodating looklike (in t3 he has too wide shoulder, i cannot believe he has a great atletic skill, but a thief need it), and altair style dress (dont a full copy, just a little bit let him be similar style) But dont let him run on walls or something like that...

[Hamadriyad]

Why dress is so important?This is not sims.Give us a cloak and done.

[AbysmalGale]

I think the game in more exciting in 1st person, so dont be 3rd person, but when u go to menu/character then u should see garrett, and garrett can be rotated, and hes need a cloak, cape (first do without cape, and when the other things are done, try with cape, and when its better with it, then keep it, when not, then leave it), and CLOSED dress, accommodating looklike (in t3 he has too wide shoulder, i cannot believe he has a great atletic skill, but a thief need it), and altair style dress (dont a full copy, just a little bit let him be similar style) But dont let him run on walls or something like that...

Come on. It's not like Garrett is a teenage girl with five wardrobes stuffed with clothes ;) I'm just happy for him if he switches underpants once in a while.

In other words, do NOT let us choose his outfit in the game AT ALL. Dress him up like in good old T1 and T2 and that's it!

[lefty]

In thief 2 you could toss your mechanical eye on the ground and look at yourself. There was no cloak, only a hood. It looked pretty much exactly like that 3d model up there but with more chainmail.

[Thieffanman]

Renaissance was a reaction to gothic. Thief atmosphere is completely gothic.So, if they bring renaissance, atmosphere will change.

Not so. The term "gothic" that I used in my entry is to describe the atmosphere that pervades the game: a city at nighttime, perpetually dark corners, places like The Cradle and the Widow Moira's mansion, an anti-hero as the game's focus, and ambient music that emphasized darkness and foreboding. You can have a Renaissance-era or Renaissance-themed game (or in Thief 4's possible scenario, a pseudo-Renaissance-gothic-steampunk game) with that gothic atmosphere firmly in place, and it could possibly still deliver the same Thief experience-- if it's done right.

I'll admit that the current medieval/goth/steampunk atmosphere that Thief currently has works well enough, though.

--Thieffanman

[AbysmalGale]

In thief 2 you could toss your mechanical eye on the ground and look at yourself. There was no cloak, only a hood. It looked pretty much exactly like that 3d model up there but with more chainmail.

Yup, you're right. But that doesn't mean he should not have a cloak in T4 ;) Besides, I (and most other fans) remember Garrett as seen on the pictures on the game boxes from T1/T2 and as showed in the cutscenes of those games. Dark long cloak and hood. He didn't have the cloak on the TDS box. Looked naked.

[lefty]

Yup, you're right. But that doesn't mean he should not have a cloak in T4 ;) Besides, I (and most other fans) remember Garrett as seen on the pictures on the game boxes from T1/T2 and as showed in the cutscenes of those games. Dark long cloak and hood. He didn't have the cloak on the TDS box. Looked naked.

Oh yeah totally, I was just saying that in reply to the people going on about how he had a cloak on in the first two games during missions. But then again, You can't really go by the models in those games. They weren't great to begin with and the player model wasn't meant to be seen anyway.

[Inspector Drept]

Thief is not only gothic. It´s also victorian.
Specially Thief 2. With all those fancy noble walls and lamps.
And it´s also Art Deco. The robots remind me of that "Metropolis" movie.
Now pagan is crazy. Dadaist, surrealist crazy.

It´s hard to define Thief art stile. Here´s how I see it:

The explored poor - Medieval
Hammerites - Gothic
Pagans - Dadaism, Surrealism
Nobles - Victorian
Mechanists/Robots - Art Deco
---------------------------------------------------------------
As for Garrett...

Wouldn´t it be cool if you could see his reflection on glasses and pools? I agree that it shouldn´t reveal too much. A cloak and a shadowy face.

[jtr7]

In thief 2 you could toss your mechanical eye on the ground and look at yourself.

Nope. Scouting orb.

And yes. Garrett shouldn't be dressed to be seen and admired. It's an Action Game/Movie convention to make a character that looks cool, but Garrett should be dressed for hiding and sneaking, and as one whom lives in a cool and damp coastal climate that sees snowy winters, and whom goes out to taff on those nights, as well as on summer days. Garrett never looks the same and his looks shouldn't be important at all. His voice says it all.

[lefty]

Nope. Scouting orb.

oh right right. I misremembered, my comp has been incapacitated since november or so.

[Hamadriyad]

[QUOTE=
It´s hard to define Thief art stile. Here´s how I see it:

The explored poor - Medieval
Hammerites - Gothic
Pagans - Dadaism, Surrealism
Nobles - Victorian
Mechanists/Robots - Art Deco
---------------------------------------------------------------.[/QUOTE]

Good observation.;)

[custodis]

Guys what do you think?
Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?:scratch:
I was first thinking like, "Meaby something like Altair (Assassin's Creed), but black.
So... Here you can post new ideas.:D

No & No

Garret's a professional thief, not an assa..... interactive dress up ken doll!!

[vowdy]

The outfit from TDS was just fine IMO.

[CurtX]

I'll keep an open mind with letting Garrett try a new look. But please, nothing that will be an obvious ripoff from another game character (like Altair). Although, since I personally hope the next game will be in first person only, we wouldn't be seeing too much of him except for dark glimpses of him in the cutscenes; similar to the first games. Let's keep Garrett mysterious.

[Ardoris]

Now I haven't played the games yet, but really all Garret needs is loose leather clothing to move around, and a long cloak to conceal himself (with a hood). But this time around I think it would be a cool touch if we could see Garret opening up his cloak and going through his items (kind of like Alone In The Dark)! That would make the player feel a bit more like a thief.

[huzi73]

Everybody go have a look at the cutscene after the sword mission, thats how garrett looks without his hood, garrett is not batman, and doesnt need body hugging nano suit looking outfit that allows him to glide, he needs an outfit that conceals his presence in the shadows, a long flowing black robe with a hood, just like the keepers.no boots of stealth, no gadget holders. Garrett in TDS SUCKED! He looked like Sam Fisher, just 400 years or so back.

[Hamadriyad]

But we have tools, right?We must carry these in something, somewhere on the clothe. And Garrett in TDS was pretty good imo. But of course he must wear a cloak.

[Platinumoxicity]

But we have tools, right?We must carry these in something, somewhere on the clothe. And Garrett in TDS was pretty good imo. But of course he must wear a cloak.

Garrett in TDS was pretty bad in many stealth aspects. Although he did have dark blue clothes which are the best for sneaking, but he didn't have a cloak/cape whatever to conceal his human form like in the previous games*. He also didn't have sleeves in his outfit, which is very bad, since he's quite pale and his arms would show easily in dim light. His outfit was also full of useless shiny metal details that would "glint" and also make noises. The outfit he wears in the box art of T1, the dark blue cape, dark blue shirt and dark brown gloves and bracers are the best for sneaking. A full-black outfit is in fact worse in the stealth aspect because pitch black forms "cut out" of the shadows in low light conditions.

Also, c'mon, his mechanical eye didn't glow in the dark in T1 and T2. Don't do that. His dark, brass coloured eye with green optics is a lot cooler than a glowing green one. Look at the T2 box art. He looks badass! :cool:

* Ignore the bad low-poly ingame model of Garrett in T2. That was a pathetic try, and it was that way because of technical limitations.

[DarthEnder]

Also, there's always been this dichotomy between Garrett in cutscenes and Garrett in the game engine. He ALWAYS has a cloak in cutscenes, but he never does in the game itself.

I attribute this to the fact that cloaks looked like **** back then(even during Deadly Shadows era), so they weren't worth including on the model. The first time I ever saw a game where I saw an outfit like Garrett's hooded cloak that behaved awesomely in engine was the Sith Robe in Force Unleashed. That thing is epic.

[huzi73]

But we have tools, right?We must carry these in something, somewhere on the clothe. And Garrett in TDS was pretty good imo. But of course he must wear a cloak.

make up your mind! Cloak like in the 1st 2 games,or leather tights like in TDS? Wanna know why we dont see his tools/items? Coz his hiding them under the cloak! Otherwise, hell stick out from the shadows like christmas tree.

[Zahr Dalsk]

Does Garrett need a kinda new stealth costume or something?

In cutscenes? No. Keep it to the 1 and 2 style. Black cloak and hood.

Ingame? Heavens no, full body awareness worked HORRIBLY in Thief DS. We'll hopefully have the same invisible body, smooth movement, and first-person-only camera as Thief 1 and 2.

[razorstealth]

I loved 3rd person view in TDS!! The ability to slide along a wall and camera around a corner without the need to expose yourself to the enemies is part of the magical art of the unseen that Garret is such a master at. And getting to watch him blackjack people is so much more satisfying in 3rd person. The cloak is a must have. He wears it in basically every video and looks like much more of a BAMF!

[Zahr Dalsk]

I loved 3rd person view in TDS!! The ability to slide along a wall and camera around a corner without the need to expose yourself to the enemies is part of the magical art of the unseen that Garret is such a master at.

You could do this in the Metal Age too, with a little something I like to call "Lean Left" and "Lean Right."

I bound them to Q and E respectively and it let me lean around corners (or indeed, just lean where I was standing, if I felt like leaning for no reason), seldom increasing visibility.

[Hamadriyad]

make up your mind! Cloak like in the 1st 2 games,or leather tights like in TDS? Wanna know why we dont see his tools/items? Coz his hiding them under the cloak! Otherwise, hell stick out from the shadows like christmas tree.

I know that. I want cloak too. I mean Garrett without a cloak may look like Garrett in TDS

[clock12345]

new idea: they are adding cape for garret right? so the cape can be usefell for fall's for example guards are chasing you the only chance is to fall down to the blackally if you press double jump then the cape will be activaded if you fell you wont take any damage the cape can be used for only 5 seconds in the air so its mostly usefell when your almost near the ground. how about this idea?

[Captain567]

Yeah, I think that would suit Garrett... He should drive the fastest car in the world too, that he can afford only because he's really a rich scientist. Oh, and that little girl should be retconned to be a little boy named Sparrow, who can become his trusty sidekick.

[Platinumoxicity]

Yeah and he could also fly short distances by grabbing his cape and flapping his arms when you repeatedly smash the jump button.

[kabatta]

I think the cape idea was exploited in soul reaver. Didn't like that much the puzzles involving it.

[jtr7]

Garrett's already Batman enough. No, please.

Maybe it's blast-resistant, and if the player crouches and turns his/her back to an impending explosion, Garrett's damage is halved. :p

[jtr7]

Garrett's already Batman enough. No, please.

Maybe it's blast-resistant, and if the player crouches and turns his/her back to an impending explosion, Garrett's damage is halved. :p

[Zahr Dalsk]

The idea of a cape to slow falls kind of does make sense when you look at it from a physics perspective.

Or they could just give us slowfall potions back.

[Hamadriyad]

Slow fall potions back please.

[Nothke]

Yeah and he could also fly short distances by grabbing his cape and flapping his arms when you repeatedly smash the jump button.

what about repeatedly jump AND crouch?


hahaha this topic really made me laugh!!! and above all things, Garrett needs a zippo and a cigarrette

[Caranfin]

The idea of a cape to slow falls kind of does make sense when you look at it from a physics perspective.
It does?

[Platinumoxicity]

Garrett should also have a propeller stuck in his arse that he uses with his buttmuscles, this way he can fly long distances using his cape as a paraglider.

[VIKTORIA]

If you taffers want the devs to bother reading suggestions, it might be a good idea to stick to sensible discussion. ;)

Thread merged into existing "Clothing/Attire" thread as most of the current conversation certainly doesn't warrant a thread of its own.

[Platinumoxicity]

If you taffers want the devs to bother reading suggestions, it might be a good idea to stick to sensible discussion. ;)

Thread merged into existing "Clothing/Attire" thread as most of the current conversation certainly doesn't warrant a thread of its own.

But don't stupid ideas require sarcastic mockery? ;)

Maybe we should use "sarcasm disclaimers" to prevent misunderstandings in these situations.

[VIKTORIA]

Yes, they do. :D
However, this forum is already bursting at the seams with idea threads, I think most of us prefer to make room on first page for discussion that is not so silly, sorry. :p

[Nothke]

Garret in robe only, I just love the shadow/silhouette of Garrett in the cutscenes of TDP and TMA!

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm163/nothke/garry.jpg

custom made...

SOOOOOO POWERFULL!!!!

I think Garrett should be made weaker, he is a thief not a bodibuilder but his stance, makes him look powerfull!

[Zahr Dalsk]

It does?

Are you familiar with the basic concept of air resistance?

[Platinumoxicity]

Are you familiar with the basic concept of air resistance?

Actually Garrett's cape isn't large enough to function as a parachute for a grown-up man like him. He would need a huge cape the size of a real parachute.

[jtr7]

And be made of light material air can barely pass through. Alchemists and their nylon threads!

Any clothing that catches air would not slow any person's descent to a beneficial degree. It would be so negligible that one couldn't really tell, though they might be distracted by the rapid fluttering, flapping, and noise of the fabrics.

[Zahr Dalsk]

Actually Garrett's cape isn't large enough to function as a parachute for a grown-up man like him. He would need a huge cape the size of a real parachute.

Doesn't need to slow him down as much as a parachute does.

A parachute is intended for falling from way up high in the sky.

This cloak would be to take the edge off of a few extra meters, kind of like slowfall potions (which, you'll notice, aren't as effective as a parachute either, because they don't need to be that effective).

[jtr7]

It wouldn't work. It has to grab a significant amount of air to matter, and it cannot weigh much itself, requiring a special material.

[Hypevosa]

would it slow garrett down? YES, would it be significant enough to matter? NO. Really, if garrett learns how to take falls, i.e. not keep his knees locked like in previous games, he would benefit greatly from it, alot more than the cape would (if he breaks his legs at X fall height, subtract ~3 or 4 inches due to the cape, if that much)

I'd say let the player have to press the crouch button at the end of a fall in order to reduce damage, simulating he took the fall. But the cape would be of little to no significance, even if he held it by it's ends.

[Platinumoxicity]

would it slow garrett down? YES, would it be significant enough to matter? NO. Really, if garrett learns how to take falls, i.e. not keep his knees locked like in previous games, he would benefit greatly from it, alot more than the cape would (if he breaks his legs at X fall height, subtract ~3 or 4 inches due to the cape, if that much)

I'd say let the player have to press the crouch button at the end of a fall in order to reduce damage, simulating he took the fall. But the cape would be of little to no significance, even if he held it by it's ends.

There is already a "hang-drop" in T1 and T2, where you press crouch on the edge on the platform that you want to drop down from, then slowly move down from it. It takes away quite a lot of the damage and makes the landing quiet too.

[Hypevosa]

I always thought that was a fluke, not an actual mechanic... and I thought it's purpose was reducing the sound of landing, not reducing damage... either way, it's the same concept, just taking a fall. Whether you just have to be crouching before hand or crouch when you hit doesn't really matter to me, but Garrett should have learned to drop 20 feet without dying by now, like a normal person can do... unless he's not drinkin his milk and has poor bone health?

*imagines picture of Garrett hiding in the shadows, all you see are the fingers around a glass of white frosty milk and a white milk mustache "Dude, where'd my milk go?"

[jtr7]

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2397/gotmilkb.jpg


Hit the ground and roll, and get dizzy watching the world spin.

[fayfuya]

I got an idea, Garrett should stay with his TDS clothes, but he should be able to buy a Cloak that may slower his falls or make him less visible or other abilities, but not supernatural...black cloak with a hood should be an option for buying, and you just wear it....on your previous TDS clothes....
let's say for example you are on first person right? so if you wear the cloak, then you run and turn around quickly you may see your cloak moving :D so damn cool to be Garrett

[jtr7]

When they can animate the dang thing without creating visual problems and processing problems or generic animations, it could be cool. Still no way a cloak can slow his falls and not be supernatural. And TDS clothes left his arms exposed for some dang reason.

[Caranfin]

Are you familiar with the basic concept of air resistance?
Yes. And as has been explained, any edge it would take out of the fall would be utterly insignificant. I don't even know why it's being discussed, it's absurd.

Garrett should have learned to drop 20 feet without dying by now, like a normal person can do... unless he's not drinkin his milk and has poor bone health?

I admit I'm not that good with imperial measurements, but according to a conversion program I found 20 feet is approximately 6 meters. That's an insane drop, even onto grass or sand, let alone stone, marble, or wood. You would probably survive it, but your knees and ankles would be absolutely destroyed unless you managed to perform a perfect landing roll.

[Hypevosa]

Why would he buy a cloak when he's got one hanging in his closet practically? Maybe he pawned off his sword and cloak in some horrible decision to get the dagger for TDS, bastard said it would slay undead in one strike......... bastard... At the end of TDS he has an insane enough amount of cash to actually get his stuff back :D

[Hypevosa]

Yes. And as has been explained, any edge it would take out of the fall would be utterly insignificant. I don't even know why it's being discussed, it's absurd.


I admit I'm not that good with imperial measurements, but according to a conversion program I found 20 feet is approximately 6 meters. That's an insane drop, even onto grass or sand, let alone stone, marble, or wood. You would probably survive it, but your knees and ankles would be absolutely destroyed unless you managed to perform a perfect landing roll.

I've jumped 20 feet... yeah it hurts, but it won't do enough damage to cripple you unless you're being stupid about your landing. You definitely aren't running for a bit though XD I did it to gravel and grass, and it's not bad there... I imagine I actually would hurt myself doing it to anything harder. As my physics teacher would say, it's not the car crashing that kills you, it's the Delta T, meaning the amount of time it takes all that force to be delivered. As long as Garrett lands on a surface that provides a long delta T (i.e. Soft Soil, sand, gravel, rubber, MAYBE wood if the boards gave a little) he'll be able to take it... painfully but take it. Here's the equation:

Force imparted to a given object = Mass of the object X the velocity on impact / The amount of time it takes for velocity to be slowed to 0

[Caranfin]

I guess I worded that a bit wrong. Yeah, you would probably not break or dislocate your joints when falling onto loose ground but like you said, it would hurt. A land onto a hard surface is the one that would destroy your legs if you didn't roll, and it would hurt even then if you didn't do it perfectly. And doing drops like that regularly, even onto loose ground, would eventually wear out your knees. Hell, a 4m drop is stupid to do regularly if you aren't David Belle or something.

[13LACK13ISHOP]

I think Garrett should wear a cloak on missions. When it is pitch black it could hide his silhouette to make his outline less visible or make him look like a curtain or hung up coat. Guard dogs recognise people at night by their shape so it would probably be more effective against dogs to or at least make him look bigger and more intimidating. The cloak could also hide his identity, and he could conceal his tools underneath it.The hood is essential. As for the air resistance thing it will at least slow you down regardless of your skill and looks cool at the same time.


Conclusion:Badass

[Nate]

The cloak/hood combo would also reduce damage to a (very) small amount. It would also prevent noise from equipment bumping up against walls/doors.....of course, it would get hooked up on stuff and knock stuff over in real life, but this isn't real life.

[DarknessFalls]

Cloaked figure somehow, is my request. Definitely not TDS' vision of him.

Garrett seemed mysterious, dark and shadowy to me in T2. Then TDS ruined that for me by turning the spotlight on him; he wasn't so mysterious any more.

I don't need to see his face, not even in cutscenes -- just a dark shadow under the hood with maybe some features like his nose or chin showing every so often. Bring some mystery back to this character. If there are mirrors in Th4f (not necessary, but IF there are), don't let me look in the mirror and see a pale, pretty-boy Garrett face looking back at me. Ugh, I think I did this in TDS and my stomach churned at the lack of care ISA took in preserving the mysteriousness of Garrett.

I don't want to see his face! I just don't. Any hints of his face that have to be in (and they should only be hints, not lit up) I feel should show some scruff, some dirty unkemptness about him. He shouldn't look like he just stepped out of a Schick razor commercial.

[Nate]

That's right! With all the thieving Garrett does, he doesn't have time for baths or stuff like that!

[ShadowMist]

All good comments, but we are assuming Garrett will be the main character. Not saying he wouldn't be in the game, but maybe not the playable character. It seemed kind of obvious he would ‘retire’, for lack of a better word, at the end of TDS with the story wrap up thing. Then again, I thought it was obvious they wouldn't make another Thief, either. Personally, I'd like to play as the little girl; break the stereotype for this kind of genre (or video games in general.) Either way, I’m not picky, I just want to play. If she is the playable character, I would much prefer not to give her the stereotypical revealing or overly 'girly' clothes. The point is not to be seen… not make the guards jaw drop while robbing them blind.

[Nate]

LOL! We could play the girl apprentice...she never quite got the whole stealth thing that Garrett was trying to teach her, so she compensated by stunning the guards with her revealing clothing.

[ShadowMist]

LOL! We could play the girl apprentice...she never quite got the whole stealth thing that Garrett was trying to teach her, so she compensated by stunning the guards with her revealing clothing.

hee..an interesting idea, yes. Not for the Theif series though. I'd like to play a girl who's as badass as any of her male videogame counterparts. Oh, and not as stalkingly creepy as the fence in stonemarket.

[Hypevosa]

I liked carmen in old quarter alot. *Slavic accent* "I hope you find what you need... the Hammers think I sell lady's undergarments... I don't know what gave them that idea, but it keeps them away."

[darkmagicasorseer]

I'm going to be the annoying voice of reason. I would say no cloak on missions. As any woman would know from wearing a long skirt, the more fabric you have flapping about, the harder it is for you to move. I would list all the trouble you could get into wearing a cloak when you know you're going to have to fight/climb/sneak, but Disney's done a great job already: http://video.ugo.com/player.aspx?articleID=12992

It's just not practical. He does look rather dashing in it, though. :) Actually, when you watch the cutscenes from TDP, he's not wearing a cape. Not that what he is wearing is the height of fashion. Perhaps only in the city hubs, where he would have to conceal his face, what with all those wanted posters about.

I would like some variety in the social classes you see around the city. You had nobles, thugs, merchants, and barmaids, and each of these groups was mostly one gender.

My only other attire idea would be to make the clothing fall and move more naturally. Those skirts in TDS looked like elastic bands! I'm sure that's really hard to animate, but it's something I notice.

Maybe we should include the CAPE as a part of the gameplay. For example Garrett can remove his cape when he needs to be mobile like sprinting or swimming, while wrapping his body with his cloak to stay hidden in small pockets of shadows

[Flashart]

I'd like a cutscene where Garrett is crouched, head down. He lifts his head, you see a glint from his eye. He stands, opens the cloak and draws his bow.
Just so it shows the cloak breaking his silhouette, and blending in with the shadows. Plus, it looks cool.
I think now there is enough of a public "perception" of the character to expect him to wear a cloak, even if it isn't practical. I mean the Lone Ranger wanders around in Daphne Blue, and no one says "Hang on a minute..."

[Peter Smith]

I haven't read all of this thread, so excuse me if this has already been discussed. By coincidence, I just posted a similar comment in another thread on cloaks (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=92249).

The assumption is made in the first few posts that Garrett was wearing a cloak in Thief 1 and 2. I think this assumption is incorrect. Garrett is not wearing a cloak in Thief 2 while he is working, as you can see with the scouting orb. He has a black outfit with a tunic and hood, like a cat burglar might wear. Sure, in some cut-scenes Garrett is seen walking outside with a cloak. That is probably because it is cold. I think Garrett does not or should not wear a cloak when thieving. A cloak would slow him down and make him less nimble. To me, it makes no sense show him with a cloak. I'll admit that it would be more dramatic, but I think that a cat burglar would not wear one.

[darkmagicasorseer]

new idea: they are adding cape for garret right? so the cape can be usefell for fall's for example guards are chasing you the only chance is to fall down to the blackally if you press double jump then the cape will be activaded if you fell you wont take any damage the cape can be used for only 5 seconds in the air so its mostly usefell when your almost near the ground. how about this idea?

That would sounded like batman :D

[Platinumoxicity]

The assumption is made in the first few posts that Garrett was wearing a cloak in Thief 1 and 2. I think this assumption is incorrect. Garrett is not wearing a cloak in Thief 2 while he is working, as you can see with the scouting orb. He has a black outfit with a tunic and hood, like a cat burglar might wear. Sure, in some cut-scenes Garrett is seen walking outside with a cloak. That is probably because it is cold. I think Garrett does not or should not wear a cloak when thieving. A cloak would slow him down and make him less nimble. To me, it makes no sense show him with a cloak. I'll admit that it would be more dramatic, but I think that a cat burglar would not wear one.

Garrett does wear a cloak on missions in all the animated cutscenes and intro videos. Also, having a cloak is a logical choice for stealth especially when hiding in shadows because the large hood in addition to the cloak conceals Garrett's human form and makes him blend better to the dark scenery. It also hides any shiny objects that he might be having on his belt. The cloak only wasn't possible to implement because of technical limitations in all games.

Also, in a visual perspective... I think it would be time to finally be able to see Garrett ingame with his cloak. :) I was looking forward to it in TDS because I knew that it wasn't possible in the earlier games because of technical limitations, but it still didn't happen. Today it's very possible, and the cloak would be a very nice addition to the ingame character. ;)

[Hamadriyad]

Garrett does wear a cloak on missions in all the animated cutscenes and intro videos. Also, having a cloak is a logical choice for stealth especially when hiding in shadows because the large hood in addition to the cloak conceals Garrett's human form and makes him blend better to the dark scenery. It also hides any shiny objects that he might be having on his belt. The cloak only wasn't possible to implement because of technical limitations in all games.

Also, in a visual perspective... I think it would be time to finally be able to see Garrett ingame with his cloak. :) I was looking forward to it in TDS because I knew that it wasn't possible in the earlier games because of technical limitations, but it still didn't happen. Today it's very possible, and the cloak would be a very nice addition to the ingame character. ;)

Agreed.
And cloak doesn't slow him down.

[jtr7]

Again, looking at the new Batman game, the cloak is hand animated for every animated move. It doesn't do what a cloak would do. It would never really react to wind, or get tangled up, or cocoon the player character, or flop over his head after a jump. In 1st-person, it would mostly not even be seen. It would be interesting (only if they got 1st-person right) to see his cloak held around his waist when all his gear is put away, but that's the majority of the cloak one could ever see. If swimming is back, I wonder if they would have a wet cloak set of animations. Aside from all that, I agree. If there was no body awareness, but the player character model could be seen (as with a scouting orb), then it would be cool. The lack of body awareness and 3rd-person makes it easier to imagine him as he's seen in the art and movies, even though we may wonder how his cloak and gear fit in a crawl way. :p

[Moosemoose]

Nono, not like DP and MA. Come on, that apparel was ridiculous, thank the Builder we didn't see it more than necessary.
Instead, the devs should cast their eyes upon JohnP's Garrett-garment, and copy-paste it.

Absolutely. The 'new' look of Garrett from John P was amazing. Anyone who hasn't played TDS with John P's texture pack definitely should. It makes a world of difference if you like nice graphics combined with a thief that looks like Garrett.

[Ikana]

I like the Idea of Garrett wearing a long cloak..

The cloak aides in the blending of shadows, plus the ability to wrap yourself in it and crouch down would be useful.

Garrett with form fitting clothing or very light armor (thin leather straps or something) underneath would be optimal, thin gloves for sensitive, precise lockpicking and arrow notching.. And keep the colors the same as T3.. anyone who was ever stupid enough to actually sneak through peoples property for the sake of sneaking (look what thief has done to me!) would know that black clothing stands out like a sore thumb unless the area is pitch black.

Dark greys and browns are best.. Considering Stone and wood are what you will be around most..

The cloak would flow behind Garrett (making slow stealthful travel favorable over a merciless killing machine..) the slower you move, the less the cloak flaps.. And to those that would say it interferes with combat, make combat a must avoid.

imagine running, it flying behind you, and then standing stationary.. and seeing it draped over garrett's shoulders, covering his body, with the hood obscuring his face from light..

I think it's useful for a more stealthy, kind of shadowlike whisper kind of thief..

a skin tight body suit with a tight hood would be more for a catlike dash in with light steps and snag everything and jump out the window undetected kind of thief..

I guess Garrett could be either, but I like the idea of a slow moving shadow silently stalking through corridors.. Maybe make the cloak able to be toggled on and off before a mission start.. This could tie in with inventory weighing you down, (if you wanted to go that route) and you could create an inventory screen, and an equip screen... choosing what gear to take with you from Garrett's home.. jumps could also be slower, without the need to make it an action you must take (I.E holding a button to hold the cloak out) it would be a constant thing.. but that's just my two cents..



on a side note, this was so well written, and USELESS FOXTAB SWITCHED TABS AND WHEN I CAME BACK IT WAS ALL GONE. I uninstalled the addon and my rage has yet to subside.

[Yaphy]

Why not make it 50-50 or something. At the begining of Thief IV you have a cloak and for some reason he cant wear it anymore. Maybe in a dramatic cutscene someone shoots a firearrow into its edge, it catch on fire and Garrett drops his cloak and disapears into the darkness. After that he doesnt have a cloak.

[Davehall380]

If the game was developed in first person we wouldnt have to worry about cloaks . . . ok thats not helpful.

I dont think that Garrett should be animated with a cloak at the expense of framerates and processing speed. For many people not gifted with a beast of a PC its going to be a struggle to play this game anyway - meaning that for low end machines it would have to be scaled down/removed. Now im not saying the game should be developed to cater for poor quality machines - however, adding something that doesnt add to the gameplay/immersion SIGNIFICANTLY should be avoided.

And if a cloak adds to the immersion, covering Garretts arms should be considered higher up on the 'asthetics' list than a cloak (we managed back in the day with TMA for gods sake)

[esme]

...I dont think that Garrett should be animated with a cloak at the expense of framerates and processing speed. For many people not gifted with a beast of a PC its going to be a struggle to play this game anyway - meaning that for low end machines it would have to be scaled down/removed...yeah, I needed a new machine anyway so I made sure it was capable of handling TDS, but making sure it could play TDS significantly affected the specs and also the price, I expect to get at least another five years out of this beast before it starts to flag and I cannot afford a replacement before that

if my current machine cannot support T4 then I won't be buying it until I get a new machine, which may not be for some considerable time

rough specs are laptop format, 2ghz core 2 duo T7200 CPU, 1Gb Ram, Nvidia Geforce Go 7950 GTX, 17" 1680x1050 screen, 100Gb 7200rpm HDD, XP Pro service pack 3

and even though I can support virtualisation I will not be upgrading to Win7 unless it comes with a new machine which I will not be getting for a long time

[Secondary]

lets seeee

i didnt really mind Garrett's outfit in TDS, but the addition of a cloak would have been welcome

and please, nobody even mention assassins creed because altair is the worst assassin ive ever seen, for a person who is supposed to be sneaky he dresses in a flambouyant red and white..whatever

one thing i really hope for is a quiver with arrows you can actually see, in TDP and TMA you couldnt really see your own back, and if Thief 4 is only first person we dont ahve to worry about that at all. but in TDS, you had this little thing pretending to be a quiver on you back, and it had no arrows in it


and for those who fear a cloak or cape would affect framerates, never fear!
you see, an animation is just that, there are thousands of them in any game and the computer can process them with relative ease in either small or large numbers

and if its dependant on physics thats easy to solve, cloth physics works by rapidly calculating the position of each unit of measure on the cloth (the smaller an d more numerous these are the more fluidly and naturally the cloth will appear to move), to reduce processing power simply reduce the area units (in number and size) on the cloaks surface a few times, it wont really look all that much worse but itl take a load off any computers back

you can see by looking at games like the next batman (arkham asylum) that a realtime cape or cloak can work and work very well

now, the real challenge for any game is lighting, the best lighting goes pixel by pixel and is calculated at an unbelievable speed, that was done very well in TDS, i can only imagine how much better it will be in Thief 4

[Davehall380]

It seems that this can of worms was opened by TDS and the third person perspective. Since we now have to look at Garrett whilst playing, he has to look like the images in the videos and artwork (cape et al). The problem with this in real terms is that Garret is never shown with all of his equipment. In any cutscene or video prior to TDS, he either has bow or sword in hand.

Now that we have the third pp, it seems logical to show all of these items. If we show a quiver, why not the sword + scabard, loot bag, all items such as health potions, flashbombs etc, and all hidden beneath a cloak.

Aside from the technical issues, Thief TMA and TDS (both of which portrayed a Garrett figure for the first time as opposed to TDP famous cardboard esq box) portrayed Garrett as id imagine him - a very practical figure.

[Ikana]

lets seeee

i didnt really mind Garrett's outfit in TDS, but the addition of a cloak would have been welcome

and please, nobody even mention assassins creed because altair is the worst assassin ive ever seen, for a person who is supposed to be sneaky he dresses in a flambouyant red and white..whatever

one thing i really hope for is a quiver with arrows you can actually see, in TDP and TMA you couldnt really see your own back, and if Thief 4 is only first person we dont ahve to worry about that at all. but in TDS, you had this little thing pretending to be a quiver on you back, and it had no arrows in it


and for those who fear a cloak or cape would affect framerates, never fear!
you see, an animation is just that, there are thousands of them in any game and the computer can process them with relative ease in either small or large numbers

and if its dependant on physics thats easy to solve, cloth physics works by rapidly calculating the position of each unit of measure on the cloth (the smaller an d more numerous these are the more fluidly and naturally the cloth will appear to move), to reduce processing power simply reduce the area units (in number and size) on the cloaks surface a few times, it wont really look all that much worse but itl take a load off any computers back

you can see by looking at games like the next batman (arkham asylum) that a realtime cape or cloak can work and work very well

now, the real challenge for any game is lighting, the best lighting goes pixel by pixel and is calculated at an unbelievable speed, that was done very well in TDS, i can only imagine how much better it will be in Thief 4


"a flambouyant red and white"
There were no night missions, it would be more stealthy to wear white in a city of white stone and off white dust.. It makes him blend.. but then.. If he dressed in normal clothes instead of trying to be a badass, he wouldn't really need to run.. but oh well.

Good point.