How many of you liked Thief 2x?

[TazmanianD]

It seems that the overwhelming opinion of the folks in this forum is that Thief 4 must have Garrett as the protagonist. I love Garrett and would love to see him in Thief 4, but I don't think that it must be so. I played Thief 2x and loved it even though it wasn't with Garrett. I loved it because the atmosphere and gameplay of the Thief games is so great. Garrett is a big part of that, but he is not all of it.

I'm hoping that by calling out Thief 2x, those of you who are set on having Garrett could relax a bit and at least consider the possibility that a different protagonist could still be great (and I admit that there is the possibility it could suck).

If you played Thief 2x, I'm curious about your thoughts on the Garrett-less game.

[Mr McGee]

Thief 2x was amazing, especially for a free mod to download. I honestly didn't mind not having Garrett as the protagonist, bu that's probably because I knew that 2x wasn't a real release, so I could always go back to Garrett later.

[GmanPro]

I loved Thief 2x, but just like Mr McGee, that love is mostly due to the fact that it was free etc. If they had chosen Garrett as the protagonist, it would have been bad because it wasn't official. They didn't want to interfere with the main story line of Garrett. Also they wouldn't have had access to Stephen Russell voice talent ... and it would have felt campy in the end. So the alternate protagonist was the only logical choice for that mod.

Anything other than Garrett and Stephen Russell would be a massive mistake on EM's part.

[theBlackman]

2X was a thief-like game. It had most of the characteristics and as a tribute to the original was a good game, minor bugs not-withstanding.

But Garrett is THIEF. His persona really makes the game. For those of you not familiar with a lot of the early discussion of G and his persona, I suggest this:

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39617

[GarretDarkCity]

LIKED IT BUT I played it thinking as I was garrett, I tried not to listen when the girl talked

[Unstoppable]

Well I can understand if Garrett is not the protagonist as his role was concluded in Deadly Shadows. (He became a keeper) However having him back as the main character would be great and satisfy the fans.

[OnePunchMickey]

I liked it in fact I just got to the last level again last night. For my money it would have made a worthy "Thief 3" as an official release. Some of the levels are some of the best in the entire series.

[Spider Tombs]

i still love Thief 2x.
i just played it AGAIN last weekend.

i would miss Garrett, but i welcome anything that evolves around the Thief universe.

[NewHorizon]

Well I can understand if Garrett is not the protagonist as his role was concluded in Deadly Shadows.

Deadly what? never heard of it. ;)

[Durinda D'Bry]

It even shouldn't be poll - I think most of fans like Thief2X. It is brilliant and very solid work, great respect to all - Ryan (before he called himself Sledge; remember, he was also Thief 3 developer!), Avalon, Fett and others.

[-=fox=-]

Well I can understand if Garrett is not the protagonist as his role was concluded in Deadly Shadows. (He became a keeper) However having him back as the main character would be great and satisfy the fans.

Yeah, I guess Garrett will take a backseat in Thief 4 and I hope they won't make us switch between multiple characters - like Garrett and his scholar. Thief, like other FPS-RPGs, should 'immerse' us into the game by putting the player in the protagonists' shoes.

[TazmanianD]

I loved Thief 2x, but just like Mr McGee, that love is mostly due to the fact that it was free etc. If they had chosen Garrett as the protagonist, it would have been bad because it wasn't official.
You think Thief 2x was mostly good because it was free and not because it was good on its own? I would have paid for Thief 2x if they charged money for it; perhaps not as much as a full game, but it was certainly as good or better than other games I have paid money for.

And can you explain more why you think an official game shouldn't use Garrett but an official game should use Garrett. What's the distinction? I don't play very many mods because I'm somewhat picky about quality and the quality isn't usually there. I know that I think differently about something because it's official but as I consider that, I think it's more about the quality issue. Something official is likely to have a high production value and something that's unofficially is likely to not be a high production value. There are however those rare gems like Thief 2x that are as good as an official release. I don't think of Thief 2x in a way very different than Thief 2. I feel like I now have four Thief games that I can play.

[GmanPro]

If they used Garrett It would have been bad because I'd be sitting there trying to enjoy it but thinking the whole time "Garrett isn't like this" or "Pfff, Garrett would never do any of this." It would feel like a bad fan fiction.

[NewHorizon]

If they used Garrett It would have been bad because I'd be sitting there trying to enjoy it but thinking the whole time "Garrett isn't like this" or "Pfff, Garrett would never do any of this." It would feel like a bad fan fiction.

I don't think that's necessarily true. There are tons of fan missions that portray Garrett perfectly. It's not as if he has a whole lot to say during the games anyway...except in the cut scenes. I think the talented T2X team would have pulled it off perfectly had it been easy for them to do so...but of course, not being able to use the real voice of Garrett would have caused too much trouble to work around, so using a new character really opened things up.

[Corvin25]

2X was a thief-like game. It had most of the characteristics and as a tribute to the original was a good game, minor bugs not-withstanding.

But Garrett is THIEF. His persona really makes the game. For those of you not familiar with a lot of the early discussion of G and his persona, I suggest this:

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39617

This post gives me some hope.

It shows that the devs actually ARE familiar with the old games, and fan-made content. :)

Don't Halo it up now. ;)

[Terr]

Nice psychoanalysis link.

[NewHorizon]

This post gives me some hope.

It shows that the devs actually ARE familiar with the old games, and fan-made content. :)


theBlackman isn't a thief 4 developer, he's a forum moderator and longtime Thief Fan. He has been around here longer than I have. :)

[Blue Sky]

I played T2X very recently and absolutely loved it! Brilliant campaign with some outstanding missions.

As it was my first Thief experience for a loooong time (must be since playing DS back in 2004) I'm now finding it hard to get used to all the guards yelling, "Get HIM! HE's over there!" again (as opposed to "Get HER!") in other FM's I'm now playing!

[Apprentice101]

It seems that the overwhelming opinion of the folks in this forum is that Thief 4 must have Garrett as the protagonist. I love Garrett and would love to see him in Thief 4, but I don't think that it must be so. I played Thief 2x and loved it even though it wasn't with Garrett. I loved it because the atmosphere and gameplay of the Thief games is so great. Garrett is a big part of that, but he is not all of it.

I'm hoping that by calling out Thief 2x, those of you who are set on having Garrett could relax a bit and at least consider the possibility that a different protagonist could still be great (and I admit that there is the possibility it could suck).

If you played Thief 2x, I'm curious about your thoughts on the Garrett-less game.

yay for INTELLIGENT people out there. You have no idea how i love people who post smth like this. Imagine reading posts everyday: OMG bring back! omg dont ruin! omg Thief 3 sucked! What the hell!!!!V i dont want to!!!! Hell no to.!!!! THief is not this kind of game!!

And yes, i COMPLETELY agree to what you said. Garret has lived his life WELL in the trilogy, he should give credits to someone else, considering he wont be living 200 years like everybody want to.

[DarthEnder]

I'm not sure how he'd have to live 200 years to be in a 10 year old game series.

Especially when you consider that the games only take place like a year apart.

So if he's like 25 in Thief, he'd be like 28 in Thief 4 if they keep up the timeline they've been using so far.

Again, not sure where your getting 200...

[theBlackman]

Agreed Darthender. Each "game" is only a week to 10 days out of his life. Even giving him 5 or 10 years from TMA to TDS, he would still be a viable character to use.

And what makes, or why does, everyone think that the next must one must deal with the future.

For example, many series in novels jump back and forth in the referrenced "era" of the characters. One (of many), examples is the Fahfrd and Mouser stories of Fritz Leiber. There is also the device of "Flashbacks" to do a complete story of a character.

The fact that Garrett became the ONE KEEPER, can be ignored with no destruction of the game environment, or detriment to gameplay.

Between his leaving the Keeper's, the missions in TDP, and the confrontation with Karas in TMA, are huge gaps that could easily be used to construct a set of missions to make a game.

[ElizabethSterling]

2X was a great mod with a handful of flaws, mostly that it started strongly and degenerated in to overly magical Forgotten Realsmy mush towards the end, not to mention that you could guess how the story would unfold from minute 1. Well worth playing through once though, immersive, lovingly crafted and detailed.

[Apprentice101]

I'm not sure how he'd have to live 200 years to be in a 10 year old game series.

Especially when you consider that the games only take place like a year apart.

So if he's like 25 in Thief, he'd be like 28 in Thief 4 if they keep up the timeline they've been using so far.

Again, not sure where your getting 200...

Hm maybe. But then how it would be explanable that 3 'ages' have past. I know the age doesnt have imply 100 years It means that different events came to pass. The again lets look at timeline between THief I and THief II. There were no mechanists in THief I. Not a tiny bit. But thing is - how mechanists did spring from the middle of nowhere in merely 2 years? I know they are radical hammerite trend, but neverthelesss things take time. Like establishing their new order etc. etc. It no way could have happened in 1-2 years of Garrets life.

[Aceyalone7777]

Still Thief 1,2,3 were better than T2X, but was still good and pretty close in quality.

That means top-notch work for a free download actually!

[kin]

T2x was really good but this does not necessarily mean that I am going to buy a game called thi4f without Garrett.

[Tatyana's Flowers]

Enjoyed playing it,but Garrett is Garrett is Thief.

[Dia1]

T2X was indeed a great fan made mission; the graphics, architecture, sound, etc. were very similar to the Thief games in general. But there the similarity ended for me. It just wasn't Thief for me without Garrett. I mean come on! Garrett IS the Master Thief!!! That's whom & what the games were about! I absolutely cannot imagine a true Thief game without Garrett as the main character. In T2X we also had replacements of other types, such as a hammer instead of a blackjack; something with which I could never get comfortable. In TDS I railed against the replacement of the old tried & true as well. A dagger instead of a sword; climbing gloves instead of rope arrows. It seems no matter how good the graphics, sound, architecture, etc., are the more substitutions for the items/characters which we've all come to accept as part of the Thief world, the less the game seems like Thief to me. I've only played T2X once and doubt that I'll ever replay the FM because the bottom line for me was that it just wasn't Thief (okay; and I really hate zombies, too). Replacing Garrett would imho be one of the biggest mistakes that EM could make.

There have been many other fanmade missions wherein the main character wasn't Garrett and while they were done in the style of Thief and were each good FMs in there own right, I was disappointed each time by the one fact that Garrett just wasn't the main character. To hear a female's voice or the voice of another man in place of Garrett just ruined the immersement for me every time. One of my all-time favorite FMs (sorry; it wasn't T2X) had a woman character in place of Garrett and even though I absolutely LOVED that FM, every time I'd hear the woman's voice in place of Garrett's it would throw me off. Not to mention the fact that it seems whenever the main character of Garrett is replaced by another, there are most always certain restrictions put on that character; ie: if it's a female, she's not as strong or agile as Garrett, or, if it's another male, he's not as stealthy or agile as Garrett.

As I said; T2X was a very well executed FM; but Garrett is, was, and always will be the Master Thief imo. Irreplaceable. 'Nuff said. ;)

[Altair]

I agree with the main sentiment here. It's Garret voiced by Russel all the way. I mean, Thief 2x really was ok, but only for playing "in between" real Thief releases so to speak.

Maybe if every Thief from the first 3 games was different, then it would make sense to make a new protagonist in this one as well. But, Garret was in all previous releases, so it is very hard to relate to any other protagonist.

[NewHorizon]

Still Thief 1,2,3 were better than T2X, but was still good and pretty close in quality.

That means top-notch work for a free download actually!

I would have to disagree. T2X, even without Garrett, was a much higher quality and satisfying experience than Thief 3. It was epic in both story, level size and execution.

[Belboz]

Well I didn't like it, I never actually finished it.

[Fiddlesticks]

I found it brilliant for a free mod, for a Thief fan definitely a must have.

[Direlord]

Can someone give a rundown of this 2x mod? I never heard of it and no idea what game it is modded from.

[Fiddlesticks]

Can someone give a rundown of this 2x mod? I never heard of it and no idea what game it is modded from.

http://www.thief2x.com/default2.asp

It's a Mod for Thief 2, download and have fun :)

[NewHorizon]

Can someone give a rundown of this 2x mod? I never heard of it and no idea what game it is modded from.

It's a thief mod of course.http://www.thief2x.com/media/t2xnew12.jpg

[Direlord]

So is it just additional mission using a different main character with Thief 2?

[TazmanianD]

It's a thief mod of course.
To further answer the other poster's question, I think calling Thief 2x a mod doesn't quite do it justice. It's practically a completely new Thief game (built using the Thief 2 engine) with 13 missions, nearly professional level production values (including cut scenes and voice overs) and the type of feature enhancements (new weapons for example) that you'd find in a true sequel. As I said before, I consider it a fourth game in the series.

[NewHorizon]

As I said before, I consider it a fourth game in the series.

I agree.

[DarthEnder]

Is T2X the one with the haunted mansion right?

I was thinking it was the reanimated mechanists, but I believe that was Shadows of the Metal Age or something like that.

Either way, I loved both of those fan campaigns.

[Hoots7]

I remember before TX2 came out and all I could do was basically look at the pictures on the website and read the little bit they had up.
I thought that guy looks kind of like Garrett; I wonder if he is going to mentor her?

What if they had 2 protagonist?
Garrett (Stephen Russell) and the street urchin training to be the new master of shadows.

The game could start out with Garrett, and then he meets the urchin (boy or girl), trains them. And then you have to learn your skills messing up along the way.
Then as the grand finale the great one, Garrett himself comes to bail you out (or most provably bust you out).

You could even have missions were you play as Garrett and have to actually show the urchin what to do, where to go, they would follow you, mimicking your every move learning by example.

How cool would that be! You think you're a Master Thief; OK prove it and train this street urchin kid; they will do everything you do, so you better be perfect.

This would be great for all us that have already perfected the art of stealth by playing the previous Thief games.
For the newbies they could make it so that after a couple of failed attempts you would be the one getting trained.

[NewHorizon]

You could even have missions were you play as Garrett and have to actually show the urchin what to do, where to go, they would follow you, mimicking your every move learning by example.



I really dislike that. Sounds like a game of Sonic and Tails. That's not Thief at all. My only hope for this game is that they keep it simple and stick to what made Thief work.

[CurtX]

Thief 2X was a great Thief mod. But it was not a Thief sequel. For any Thief sequel, I would always expect to play as Garrett. For mods, I'm a bit more flexible. That's what makes them mods.

[Fiddlesticks]

I found it great, as thieffan no excuse to not play it.

[TazmanianD]

Thief 2X was a great Thief mod. But it was not a Thief sequel. For any Thief sequel, I would always expect to play as Garrett. For mods, I'm a bit more flexible. That's what makes them mods.

That does not seem an unreasonable position to me: that a true sequel follows the same character but having a different character or significant change in the story arc is more a spin-off or mod. Would you apply that same logic to any game? There are scant few examples, but the one I can think of is Deus Ex and Invisible War. Setting aside all the other problems IW had, I was not unhappy that in DX, you play as JC Denton, but in IW you play as Alex Denton. Perhaps it was because Alex Denton was so similar to JC.

In both DX and Thief, I very much enjoyed the characters, but I'm not as completely attached to them as I am to the gameplay experience itself. Sneaking through the steampunk world of Thief, hunting for hard to find loot in all the dark corners, evading and knocking out the guards and ultimately getting wrapped up in "saving the world" are the things that are most important to me.

[hellwalker]

I loved it, story was more then a bit fishy, and voice acting sucked, but missions were great and I loved new gameplay additions. And they did a great job in telling story of how Hammerites began to join Mechanist order.

[DarknessFalls]

Oh, I forgot about T2X. I don't think I ever finished it for some reason. I think I got to a train station level, or similar, and then took a train... I don't remember anything after that. Either I got stuck, or it crashed, or I got busy with life, or I got bored somehow (probably not the latter), or? I think the voice acting kinda bothered me, unfortunately. The only Thief 2 mod I've really enjoyed the voice acting for was one where there was some guy with an accent talking... I think the character you played was named Ethan or some other name starting with an "E". That was the first time I felt *maybe* I could some day forgive not having Garrett... BUT Garrett is the Best and I wouldn't settle for anything different in my official Thief gameplay :)

[esme]

loved it

[Platinumoxicity]

T2X was a great Thief game, I just didn't like the main character too much. She seemed out of place compared to the style of the original games, and even T2X itself. I think they could have made her more believable, but they chose to go with the "perfect" face, generic personality and skintight black leather.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5081/t2ximage3.jpg

[Blue Sky]

I like the way her eye is a clock

[TazmanianD]

Oh, I forgot about T2X. I don't think I ever finished it for some reason. I think I got to a train station level, or similar, and then took a train... I don't remember anything after that. Either I got stuck, or it crashed, or I got busy with life, or I got bored somehow (probably not the latter), or? I think the voice acting kinda bothered me, unfortunately. The only Thief 2 mod I've really enjoyed the voice acting for was one where there was some guy with an accent talking.

I actually got stuck in the exact same spot when I first played T2X. I followed those pirates or whatever they were to their hideout and then I didn't play again for months. I did eventually pick it up again and finished the whole thing and it was great.

The voice acting is probably the one reason why I say that T2X is just shy of professional level, but that said, I think it's about the best voice acting I've ever heard in a fan made mod. Fans can make some fantastic artwork, but it seems that it really takes something special to do good voice acting. Maybe it's just having a professional studio to record in that matters.

[GmanPro]

^^ Yup. Its 95% mic and 5% voice actor

[DarknessFalls]

I disagree that it's 95% mic. Even with a $500 microphone, a lot of people can't voice act very well. I usually find it some combination of (a) they try too hard so things sound forced and, well, 'over acted' or (b) they try to do a voice that they can't do well so it sounds cheesy or not quite right. But yeah, recording voices in a $5 mic from RadioShack's certainly doesn't help anything.

[GmanPro]

Thief 2x voice acting definitely suffered from a lack of quality equipment.

[Flashart]

I've just reloaded it, and it's great! Any criticism is completely disproportionate with the
amount of effort it must have taken to create.
To my way of thinking T2X is the most solid argument why Thief IV should ship with a user friendly editor. It could have been drip fed as individual levels, but to tie it all together with cutscenes etc is just superb.

[citywolfdreams]

Thief 2X was awesome, and in my opinion was the REAL Thief 3. The attention to detail in each level just blew my mind. Some levels had entire building of crawlspace area hidden under the floors! This was a game that was made with love, and it SHOWED - as opposed to the quick-buck piece of crap that Thief 3 turned out to be. Oh sure, it had one good level (the cradle). And yes, the ability to pause the game to select items from your inventory was pretty nice (even though there were only six different items). But come on, each entire level there was about the size of a three bedroom apartment. And the floor layouts were so linear that often your "choice" boiled down to "Before I go down the ONE corridor that will take me to the thing I need, should I wait for the guard to pass by hiding in the closet or in the other room?"

[TazmanianD]

Thief 2x voice acting definitely suffered from a lack of quality equipment.

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that they actually found someone that let them use a professional studio to do their recording. As I said before, the voice acting in T2X is the best I've heard in a fan made mod but it seems to me that it really takes the right person with the right voice (as in not me ;-).

[Hamadriyad]

Thief 2X was awesome, and in my opinion was the REAL Thief 3.

I don't think so. Yes,good game but not too much. Especially last mission is a disaster. COSAS will be much much better when the whole game is finished in my opinion. And Thief III is a great sequel in many ways.