THE CITY WATCH - Latest News/Article/Interview Discussion Thread - Updated 17/02/2010

[VIKTORIA]

February Update

Eidos Montreal celebrate their 3rd year. Congratulations to them.

http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files/images/Eidos3AnniversaryBannerTopE1.jpg
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files/images/Eidos3AnniversaryBannerBottomE1.jpg




January 2010 Updates


Hi everyone,

I just wanted to post a picture of Paul since he's been in Montréal working with the Thief 4 team for a few days now! Here he is with Thief 4's Producer, Mario (on the right-hand side):

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/paulmario_small.jpg

The reason I'm posting this is because I've seen some posts with concern about the fact that Paul is mostly working out of his London studio. He is of course working closely with the dev team and although I can't predict the future, I can only imagine he'll be here many many times over the course of development!

Like Paul himself responded to a few posts over at TTLG, I wanted to post this picture taken today to let everyone know that the development team is keeping an eye on the forums and what everyone is talking about! Sorry we can't say more at this time but stay tuned. Now I have to get back to work on Deus Ex 3!

René




**

Thief 4's audio director has been named as Paul Weir.

Weir, an old hand to video game audio who has worked on the Discworld series, Ghost Master, and Constantine, will be taking on full audio direction duties.

Weir is currently the director of sound company Earcom, which most recently worked on the sound design for LEGO Rock Band's intro sequence. The company has also recently worked on LEGO Batman and Pure.

Thief IV Fans are likely to be a tad disappointed that series stalwart Eric Brosius will not be working on the audio for this next Thief iteration, but Weir - speaking on the Through the Looking Glass forums - mentioned that "Eric's music is exactly the kind of music I also like and if it isn't broke..."

Weir allayed other concerns. "Just in case there's concern about audio being outsourced, it's actually much more like running a satellite Eidos studio in that I'm very much fully integrated into the team, it's just that for various reasons, the actual audio creation side is being done in London," wrote Weir. "I apologise that I can't talk more about the game, but when the time is deemed right I hope you'll be impressed by the work that's revealed."

Eidos Montreal is reportedly still looking to hire a sound programmer, however, which - considering the importance of sound design in the series - is likely to prove a huge decision.

Thief 4 is due out on PC and other unspecified systems at an unspecified point in the future. We're going to guess PC, 360, and PS3, and we imagine we'll hear a bit more on the title by the end of the year. If you're looking forward to it, check out our post-announcement interview.


To read the full article, click HERE ( http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:f38yfhH2sHoJ:www.earcom.net/+paul+weir+musician&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk)



**




November 2009 Update

Information ShadowFox has shared with us from EM's Open House day, 15th November:

Concept art looks ace. Saw paintings of South quarter and other "untitled" parts of the city that the artists was working on during the day for people to see. All looks very steamy, dark and Thief-y. Some animations that were being worked on with the team look fantastic and they have animators that worked on Assassin's Creed and other big Ubisoft titles, which is only good for the animation.

Everyone I talked to was a huge fan and came to EM because they either wanted to work on Deus Ex 3 or Thief 4. From talking to Mario he said that all of the leads and senior team members know Thief inside out and are primarily focussed on creating a game that is really a part of the franchise, rather than just another game with the Thief name attached to it.

Progress is going well from talking to the team and they're in communication with previous devs as much as possible, with talks about a consultation contract underway, but unconfirmed.

Once I get the interviews transcribed and approved for the website I'll post links for anyone who's interested. In the meantime...

.....Stephen Russell was mentioned, though nothing confirmed....




**


April 2009 Update

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu83/T4Mod/Project2BannerEnglish.jpg

A posting on Eidos Montreal's website suggests that Thief IV may be about to undergo development. The post states states:

"Eidos-Montréal is proud to announce the recruitment for our 2nd “AAA” project. … A hint! The title begins with the letter “ T ”…

The article then goes on to draw several other conclusions. Nothing is known yet on what a possible new plot might be, apart from claims that it was initially intended to be a "retelling" of the original games.




**

[VIKTORIA]

May 11th, 2009

Today, Eidos Montreal officially confirmed that their next project is indeed Thief 4.
The new forum is now live! :cool:


Electric Playground Interview (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=95888082040&oid=81350002691)


**

Meet the Dev Team!

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu83/T4Mod/devteamthief4.jpg

Direct from the Eidos Montreal Website (http://www.eidosmontreal.com/en/games.html) :cool:

[VIKTORIA]

OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE

Eidos-Montréal is excited to unveil its previously secret second title in development at the studio, Thief™ 4, the next instalment in the legendary series.

The original Thief game, Thief: The Dark Project redefined first person gaming and established an entirely new genre of stealth based game play. The critically and commercially acclaimed Thief series has won numerous awards and accolades including GameSpy Hall of Fame, GameSpot Greatest Games of All Time and The Academy of Interactive Arts And Sciences Outstanding Achievement in Character and Story Development.

Eidos-Montréal, which is also currently producing the much anticipated Deus Ex™ 3, has recruited the very best core team for the development of Thief 4. The team is comprised of industry veterans who have worked on an incredible collection of AAA titles and who each bring personal expertise in their respective fields.

“We’re in the early development stages for Thief 4, but this is an incredibly ambitious and exciting project for Eidos,” said Stéphane D’Astous, General Manager at Eidos-Montréal. “While it’s too early for us to offer any specific game details, right now we are focused on recruiting the very best talent to join the core team at the studio and help us make what we believe will be one of the most exciting games on the market.”

Development is under way and the team is looking to recruit the very best talent as production ramps up. If you are a world-class developer looking to join the talented Thief 4 team, visit www.eidosmontreal.com to submit your résumé or www.thief4.com to join the community discussion.

[René]

For those of us in North America, or if you just generally have access to G4TV, check out Electric Playground (www.elecplay.com) at 6:00pm EST tonight (Monday the 11th) for an interview with our General Manager, Stéphane D'Astous.

[GmanPro]

^^ Will do

[Vgmwst7]

The city watch are my favourtie characters and I hope they are in thief 4. In TDS, I love the way you can hear them moaning about being on duty and wanting to be down the pub with the boys etc. Some of the phrases they come out with are great: "Who's making all that ruckus?"; "What's all this? Is someone being clever?" ".

[cimerians]

This is great news indeed. I always liked the medieval dark atmosphere of these games. Especially the creepiness of TDS.

[maddermadcat]

The city watch are my favourtie characters and I hope they are in thief 4.

You have no idea what the thread's about, do you?

[Mr. Perfect]

Someone made mention of a video clip or trailer, is there something out like that?

[van_HellSing]

Interview with Stéphane D'Astous at www.incgamers.com (http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/Thief-4-Developer-Interview)

[GmanPro]

At least hes proud of the logo

[van_HellSing]

You know, pretty much nothing was said but the whole interview still manages to get me to cringe.

Fresh approach! Innovation! Originality!

Read:

New setting! No shadow stealth! Regenerating health!

[GmanPro]

Fresh approach! Innovation! Originality!

All of those words amount to, "lets use the same ideas that everyone else has been using for the past five years!"

[VIKTORIA]

Interview with Stéphane D'Astous at www.incgamers.com (http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/Thief-4-Developer-Interview)

Thank you, and copied in full below. :)

**

Thief 4 Developer Interview
11 May 2009 at 18:38:01 by Tim McDonald, IncGamers.com

Today's announcement of Thief 4 has been a long time coming, so we had plenty of time to plan our break in of the Eidos-Montreal castle to see what they were up to. Then we changed our minds and realised it'd be much easier to just ask Stéphane D'Astous, the general manager at Eidos-Montreal, all about the game.



Hello, Stéphane.

Hello! This weekend I was Googling a bit to see the activity on Thief 4 and you were always on the top.

We've been paying close attention to all of the teasers, but now it's finally announced! How do you feel?

It's a relief, let me tell you. We've been working on the concept phase for five or six months. The core team has delivered a proof of concept that was delivered to an executive meeting held in Montreal a couple of weeks ago, and since we got a full thumbs-up, we're able to announce it. We wanted to create some interest, so we had a couple of hints - easter eggs here and there - to say that we were going to be working on classic, classic franchises, and the first two are publicly known.

So how far along the development process are you at the moment?

In the world of gaming there are mainly three phases – the concept, pre-production, and production – and right now we've reached our goals with the conceptual base, the story. Obviously, the tough part is still to come, so the team will be ramping up, which is good news because even with the hard times in the financial world, videogames still have bright skies – at least in Montreal! So we'll be hiring approximately 40 people in the next six months: artists, programmers, designers, all the works. They'll be working on the next phase, which will be pre-production, so it's too early right now to mention any kind of a release window or SKUs that we'll be working on. The important thing is that we have a great team, a core team of maybe 20 people, and we're going to the next stage.

You can't confirm at the moment what systems this is going to be launching on?

No. With the fast evolving world of hardware, there's a lot of things that will be happening in the following years so we need to be close to that - but either way, there's a lot of work to be done. Presently the only asset that we're able to release is the logo, which we're pretty proud of as it's very respectful of the franchise and you can recognise it very rapidly, and once we have other types of assets we'll make them publicly available.

Speaking of the team that you've got, do you have any of the old Looking Glass Studios staff on board?

Well, no, but we've done our homework. We went through this a couple of years ago when we launched the Deus Ex 3 project, so we're pretty much in constant contact with a couple of people. These people are mainly based in Texas and they have their own lives and their own projects, and for now we've built our team with veterans that have worked on numerous triple-A titles. We have people that have worked on the Rainbow Six series, on Prince of Persia, on the Splinter Cell games – the list is very long and we'll soon release the pedigree of the team, and you'll notice that these guys have a lot of credentials. In terms of Looking Glass and Ion Storm, we're trying to be as close as possible to some of the original developers, but nothing's confirmed.

You've been paying attention, we hear, to a lot of the fan threads about what people would want from a fourth Thief game. Are you trying to make the Thief game that everybody wants or do you have your own ideas?

Well, again, we're glad that we've learned so much from when we launched the Deus Ex stuff. The communities of these two projects are so vocal, so protective of what they want, and one thing is for sure – they're very active! (Laughs) We're keeping our ear very close to the ground. As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys “I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,” because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief. Obviously we've started work, but it's always very important for the developers to be close to the community. We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans, and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!

Are you worried at all about the fan backlash?

We're always expecting that. When you have such hardcore fans, they're protective, and they're very vocal. We understand all that, and we expect them to continue in that vein, so our mandate is to bring this game to a new level, and it's a challenge to reassure the old fans, but we want to introduce this classic franchise to new fans, so that's going to be our challenge. We won't be able to please 100% of the fanbase, but we're going to do our best to have the least compromise possible.

You've finished working on the initial concept at the moment, so looking back at the last Thief game, as that was awhile ago...

Exactly. May 2004, I think.

Right. So how easy do you think it's going to be for new players to get into this fourth game?

A classic game remains a classic. As a comparison, a good movie - even if it's made twenty years ago - remains a good movie. 2001, let's say, or Blade Runner. These films were made decades ago, but they're still very well-made and of a very high quality. Our main goal is that the essence and the spirit of these two franchises are as good now as ever before. Now we need to bring them to the highest level of technology, the highest level of design - the characters are very important, the story is important; we recognise all that, and a good game remains a good game if it's made accordingly.

Gameplay, of course, is also important to making a good game. How's that shaping up?

Unfortunately we won't be able to reveal too much of that for now. This will be maybe available in the next wave of communication.

You can't even hint at just a little bit?

Unfortunately! (Laughs)

How about the plot, then? The same city?

The setting, the character, the story, the features – anything related to the actual content of the game, we cannot discuss for now. What I can say is that people are going to be very happily surprised and impressed. I think that we've put our finger on a number of things. Innovation and originality will be important, and I think it's going to serve this great franchise very well. Even though it's a franchise that we last saw five years ago, we're going to bring a fresh look and a fresh approach. We're always respecting the history and the spirit of the game, but innovation will definitely be quite interesting.

Is it fair to say that Thief 4 is going to pay attention to the spirit of the previous Thief games, but perhaps not the mechanics so much, then?

(Pause) We'll see about that! (Laughs) Sorry, Tim. I wouldn't say it in those words, but the moment that we have more information, we'll relay it over.

[van_HellSing]

http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/Thief-4-Developer-Interview


Hello, Stéphane.

Hello! This weekend I was Googling a bit to see the activity on Thief 4 and you were always on the top.

Raise your hand anyone who's even heard about the site before.

We've been paying close attention to all of the teasers, but now it's finally announced! How do you feel?

It's a relief, let me tell you. We've been working on the concept phase for five or six months. The core team has delivered a proof of concept that was delivered to an executive meeting held in Montreal a couple of weeks ago, and since we got a full thumbs-up, we're able to announce it. We wanted to create some interest, so we had a couple of hints - easter eggs here and there - to say that we were going to be working on classic, classic franchises, and the first two are publicly known.

So how far along the development process are you at the moment?

In the world of gaming there are mainly three phases – the concept, pre-production, and production – and right now we've reached our goals with the conceptual base, the story. Obviously, the tough part is still to come, so the team will be ramping up, which is good news because even with the hard times in the financial world, videogames still have bright skies – at least in Montreal! So we'll be hiring approximately 40 people in the next six months: artists, programmers, designers, all the works. They'll be working on the next phase, which will be pre-production, so it's too early right now to mention any kind of a release window or SKUs that we'll be working on. The important thing is that we have a great team, a core team of maybe 20 people, and we're going to the next stage.

"We had to announce the game because we can't get a team working. Maybe some fans will apply now, we'll pay them in peanuts."

You can't confirm at the moment what systems this is going to be launching on?

No. With the fast evolving world of hardware, there's a lot of things that will be happening in the following years so we need to be close to that - but either way, there's a lot of work to be done. Presently the only asset that we're able to release is the logo, which we're pretty proud of as it's very respectful of the franchise and you can recognise it very rapidly, and once we have other types of assets we'll make them publicly available.

"PCs might finally die by then, you know, that will be a relief. Console gamers are much easier to please. Have you s44n our logo? It's l44t."

Speaking of the team that you've got, do you have any of the old Looking Glass Studios staff on board?

Well, no, but we've done our homework. We went through this a couple of years ago when we launched the Deus Ex 3 project, so we're pretty much in constant contact with a couple of people. These people are mainly based in Texas and they have their own lives and their own projects, and for now we've built our team with veterans that have worked on numerous triple-A titles. We have people that have worked on the Rainbow Six series, on Prince of Persia, on the Splinter Cell games – the list is very long and we'll soon release the pedigree of the team, and you'll notice that these guys have a lot of credentials. In terms of Looking Glass and Ion Storm, we're trying to be as close as possible to some of the original developers, but nothing's confirmed.

"Well, no" Fans: "NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo..." "We're pretty much in constant contact with a couple of people. These people are mainly based in Texas. Everything in Thi4f will be bigg4r. And as we're owned by Square Enix now, we're starting with oversized swords!"

You've been paying attention, we hear, to a lot of the fan threads about what people would want from a fourth Thief game. Are you trying to make the Thief game that everybody wants or do you have your own ideas?

Well, again, we're glad that we've learned so much from when we launched the Deus Ex stuff. The communities of these two projects are so vocal, so protective of what they want, and one thing is for sure – they're very active! (Laughs) We're keeping our ear very close to the ground. As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys “I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,” because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief. Obviously we've started work, but it's always very important for the developers to be close to the community. We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans, and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!

"We're keeping our ear very close to the ground" - at this point, they should be hiding in ditches.

Are you worried at all about the fan backlash?

We're always expecting that. When you have such hardcore fans, they're protective, and they're very vocal. We understand all that, and we expect them to continue in that vein, so our mandate is to bring this game to a new level, and it's a challenge to reassure the old fans, but we want to introduce this classic franchise to new fans, so that's going to be our challenge. We won't be able to please 100% of the fanbase, but we're going to do our best to have the least compromise possible.

"We're always expecting that." At least you're this smart."Our mandate is to bring this game to a new level" TO THE MAX!, because: "we want to introduce this classic franchise to new consoletards"

You've finished working on the initial concept at the moment, so looking back at the last Thief game, as that was awhile ago --

Exactly. May 2004, I think.

Wow, he did his homework!

Right. So how easy do you think it's going to be for new players to get into this fourth game?

A classic game remains a classic. As a comparison, a good movie - even if it's made twenty years ago - remains a good movie. 2001, let's say, or Blade Runner. These films were made decades ago, but they're still very well-made and of a very high quality. Our main goal is that the essence and the spirit of these two franchises are as good now as ever before. Now we need to bring them to the highest level of technology, the highest level of design - the characters are very important, the story is important; we recognise all that, and a good game remains a good game if it's made accordingly.

"Butter is buttery. And we're doing a sequel to Blade Runner, but with MORE AWESOME! since we want to appeal to a younger audience."

Gameplay, of course, is also important to making a good game. How's that shaping up?

Unfortunately we won't be able to reveal too much of that for now. This will be maybe available in the next wave of communication.

"We're trying hard to hack shadow stealth into the Tomb Raider engine, if we fail you'll get line of sight."

You can't even hint at just a little bit?

Unfortunately! (Laughs)

evilly, no doubt

How about the plot, then? The same city?

The setting, the character, the story, the features – anything related to the actual content of the game, we cannot discuss for now. What I can say is that people are going to be very happily surprised and impressed. I think that we've put our finger on a number of things. Innovation and originality will be important, and I think it's going to serve this great franchise very well. Even though it's a franchise that we last saw five years ago, we're going to bring a fresh look and a fresh approach. We're always respecting the history and the spirit of the game, but innovation will definitely be quite interesting.

"We can't discuss our NEW AWESOME setting for now. With the logo and all I've said so far, this would generate just too much backlash at once."

Is it fair to say that Thief 4 is going to pay attention to the spirit of the previous Thief games, but perhaps not the mechanics so much, then?

(Pause) We'll see about that! (Laughs) Sorry, Tim. I wouldn't say it in those words, but the moment that we have more information, we'll relay it over.

DAMN RIGHT WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT

[Durinda D'Bry]

BTW: note that interview includes screenshot never appeared in released Thief DP with haunt in Lost City:)

[Necros]

http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/Thief-4-Developer-Interview

Hello, Stéphane.
Your version: :mad2: :rolleyes:

Has anybody seen the G4TV interview?

[ZIGS]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/09/may/numbsp.jpg

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/09/may/numtr.jpg

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/09/may/numdx3.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~ragtag/klsplash.jpg

:rasp:

[Jables_Kage]

the deus ex one looks cool

[Deathspiral]

Her non-interview is here: http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/Thief-4-Developer-Interview

Some fans are concerned that Thief4 will turn out to be another deus ex 2 - dumbed down for console players and only selling because of an excellent initial brand that was created by a team that no longer exists. The marketers killed that game. Let's see if they will harm Thief 4 as well?


Here is a summary of the interview:

Q: So how far along the development process are you at the moment?
A: We've barely started

Q: What platform will it run on?
A: I have no idea.

Q: Will any of the people at Looking Glass Studios, you know, the ones that actually made the game good, be working on this one?
A: no

Q: So, what's the gameplay going to be like?
A: I have no idea.

Q: You have no idea?
A: no.

Q: Okay... What about the plot, you said that was finished?
A: I have no idea.

Q: Okay... Any idea if the game is going to be similar in feel to the old games or not?
A: I can't say.

Q: Hmm... I'm confused, this is supposed to be a three page interview and you haven't said anything at all yet. Perhaps you can tell us what you CAN talk about?
A: "Presently the only asset that we're able to release is the logo, which we're pretty proud of as it's very respectful of the franchise and you can recognise it very rapidly, and once we have other types of assets we'll make them publicly available."

Q: A... logo? You have been working for six months and you can tell us you have a logo?
A: "We're pretty proud of it"

Q: Hmm... Well... I still have one and a half pages to go. Could you tell us anything else?
A: "We'll have a virtual boutique where you can buy merchandise from these two projects and this is something that we're really proud of."

Q: You, a video games development company, are "very proud" that you managed to set up a cafepress store?
A: absolutely!

Q: So you know nothing whatsoever about the game, the franchise or even what a console is, so you decided to spend the entire interviw talking about your logo and "social media" to hide your ignorance?
A: you got it!

Q: Any last words?
A: "As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys “I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,” because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief. Obviously we've started work, but it's always very important for the developers to be close to the community. We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans, and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!"


Message from a fan: Don't let people with marketing degrees run game development, or even speak for the company in any public way. At the very least, find someone who has PLAYED the previous games to comment on the new one.


Finally: thi4f? really? that would make it thiAf. Or it would, if anyone other than 12 year old "leet hax0rs" still replaced letters with numbers.

[VIKTORIA]

Her non-interview is here: http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/Thief-4-Developer-Interview

Just to make it clear, Stéphane (D'Astous) is a he, not a she. :D

[Vladimyre]

Just to make it clear, Stéphane (D'Astous) is a he, not a she. :D

touche, VIKTORIA, Touche.
:D

[VIKTORIA]

Just a natural (organic) tendency of mine, to nip (things) in the bud. ;) :D

[Vladimyre]

Very punny lady :D

Didn't par chance read any Piers Anthony as a youth? LOL

[VIKTORIA]

In my youth, I was an Alice fan, predominantly... mixed with some Moorcock. ;)

[Bono]

Deathspiral, that's just great.

[Wazootyman]

You've been paying attention, we hear, to a lot of the fan threads about what people would want from a fourth Thief game. Are you trying to make the Thief game that everybody wants or do you have your own ideas?

Well, again, we're glad that we've learned so much from when we launched the Deus Ex stuff. The communities of these two projects are so vocal, so protective of what they want, and one thing is for sure – they're very active! (Laughs) We're keeping our ear very close to the ground. As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys “I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,” because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief. Obviously we've started work, but it's always very important for the developers to be close to the community. We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans, and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!

Are you worried at all about the fan backlash?

We're always expecting that. When you have such hardcore fans, they're protective, and they're very vocal. We understand all that, and we expect them to continue in that vein, so our mandate is to bring this game to a new level, and it's a challenge to reassure the old fans, but we want to introduce this classic franchise to new fans, so that's going to be our challenge. We won't be able to please 100% of the fanbase, but we're going to do our best to have the least compromise possible.


This is what I like to hear, mostly...maybe it's just lip-service, but I get the feeling these guys really understand what a treasured piece of gaming history they're dealing with, and what it will take to please the hardcore fans. I only hope they're not TOO overzealous about pandering to the potential new fans over the old.



How about the plot, then? The same city?

General ScreenshotThe setting, the character, the story, the features – anything related to the actual content of the game, we cannot discuss for now. What I can say is that people are going to be very happily surprised and impressed. I think that we've put our finger on a number of things. Innovation and originality will be important, and I think it's going to serve this great franchise very well. Even though it's a franchise that we last saw five years ago, we're going to bring a fresh look and a fresh approach. We're always respecting the history and the spirit of the game, but innovation will definitely be quite interesting.

This...worries me a little bit. I'm all for innovation and originality, just so long as it isn't fundamentally changing the game. The "fresh look, fresh approach" bit is particularly worrisome to me. But, I remain hopefully optimistic. We'll just have to wait and see what this actually means...

[GmanPro]

I just hope someone on the dev team doesn't come out and say that they felt that the older Thief games were too slow.

[van_HellSing]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/982/982148p1.html

GDC Canada: Eidos Montreal Talks Thief 4
Could the stealth franchise see its next sequel on a next-gen console?
by Ryan Geddes

May 12, 2009 - In February 2007 an ailing Eidos announced that it would embark on a three-year plan to found a Montreal studio that would house three brand-new development teams. The fledgling office would be tasked with creating new AAA titles that would help lead the company back into its rightful place as one of the world's premier videogame developers.

It's no easy task, but it's one that the new studio's General Manager, Stephane D'Astous, seems up to. We sat down with the energetic D'Astous at the inaugural Game Developers Conference: Canada in Vancouver this week to talk about Eidos' ambitious plan as it relates to the global company's newest big game announcement: Thief 4.

For weeks, Internet rumors had been chattering that Eidos Montreal was working on the fourth installment in the popular stealth franchise, and the company confirmed the Thief 4 rumors on Monday. But beyond the announcement, Eidos remained fairly silent on just what it had in store for Thief 4. And while the company is still refusing to cough up details this early (the title just passed the proof-of-concept phase three weeks ago), D'Astous did talk with IGN about the team's general approach for the game and its overall philosophy as a studio.

The Thief franchise got its start on the PC and saw most of its success there, although the third Thief title also ended up on the original Xbox. And while it seems likely that a PC version of Thief 4 is in the works, the fledgling title's console future is a bit hazier.

"As for platforms and consoles, things are moving so fast. There's some contradictory noise on when there's going to be the next generation, so we're going to be prudent on that one," said D'Astous. "So we're going to wait a couple of months to announce more about that. It's going to be cutting edge technology, that's for sure. It would be imprudent for us to say which console because, first of all, we don't know exactly the window of release and we don't know the first-party strategy.

Does that mean Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony is planning to introduce a new console sooner rather than later? D'Astous wouldn't say anything further on the topic. But he did confirm that neither Thief 4 nor Deus Ex 3 would be on display at this year's E3 convention in Los Angeles. That leaves plenty of time for Eidos Montreal to get an earful from fans.

With Thief 4, there's a firm focus on the fanbase. After Monday's announcement, the studio threw up an official message board that quickly became peppered with comments and questions from fans of the franchise. Would Garrett return as the main character? Would voice actor Stephen Russell reprise his role? How would stealth be handled? Would it be open-world?

We asked D'Astous all of the above questions and were politely refused answers, although he did assure us that the game would stay true to its stealth roots, even while attempting to broaden the series' horizons.

"It's safe to say that there's an association of stealth games being boring and slow-paced. And we're fully aware of that. I think we'll try to repeat what the first game did, which is to really break ground on the traditional way of playing. And I think if we want to do a fully stealth game, it's going to be, I hope, very innovative and bring a lot of new things to the table," D'Astous said.

To do that, Eidos has established a top-notch team of developers in Montreal, many of whom left high-paying jobs at competing studios to work on Thief 4 and Deus Ex 3. Most of the team members have serious development pedigrees and solid experience shipping AAA titles. Before settling on Montreal, the company looked at both Vancouver and Austin, Texas, site of the now-shuttered Ion Storm (which created the original Deus Ex) as a base for the new studio. But, D'Astous said, the talent pool in Montreal sealed the deal.

And soon Eidos will be siphoning yet more top-tier talent away from studios like Ubisoft and EA in Montreal when it begins ramping up development on a third unannounced game next year. D'Astous wouldn't say what the studio's next big project is, but we know it will be a major or possibly new IP. Eidos killed 15 pending game projects when it reorganized around the new Montreal office last year, so expect all the studio's upcoming bets to be big ones.

For Eidos, that seems to mean hardcore-focused games that also draw in more mainstream gamers, ones who may not have played games like Thief previously but are curious and willing to try a new series.

"We want to bring something new to the table, because these games sold respectably [in the past], but we want to bring it to another level. We want to have a larger audience without diluting the content," said D'Astous. "That is the real challenge, to bring it to a larger audience but without making it too easy or too thin on content. We're going to bring certainly a lot of innovation to both [Thief 4 and Deus Ex 3]."

Exactly what that means is open to interpretation at this stage, although D'Astous hinted that story, choice and RPG elements will play a large role in Thief 4, rather than the instant gratification that comes with twitch combat.

"I think shooters are fine – it's an adrenaline rush. But I think the RPGs in recent years are really gaining a lot of momentum," said D'Astous. "People want to have a richer experience. They want to have choices in their gameplay and I think games are getting more and more sophisticated with storytelling, and I think we can certainly do something with that with Thief."

[Bono]

I just hope someone on the dev team doesn't come out and say that they felt that the older Thief games were too slow.

Hear!

"It's safe to say that there's an association of stealth games being boring and slow-paced. And we're fully aware of that. I think we'll try to repeat what the first game did, which is to really break ground on the traditional way of playing. And I think if we want to do a fully stealth game, it's going to be, I hope, very innovative and bring a lot of new things to the table," D'Astous said.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/982/982148p1.html

Well, he didn't say anything criminal this time, but he came really close.

[Gamboge]

I hope they don't do with Thief 4 what Ubisoft has done with Splinter Cell. "Hiding in the shadows is boring after 4 games," they said. A convenient excuse to make it more generic and "hip." I'm worried as to what becomes of Thief 4. The interviews are beginning to sound similar to those of Ubisoft Montreal; when they say they're doing something "innovative and fresh," they mean "completely different." I'm seeing all the same signs. Very ominous.

[Maethius]

Hopefully they won't do with Thief 4 (just can't bring myself to type "Thi4f"... even the producers of Tron 2 saw the stupidity of using "TR2N" as a name) that they did with Thief 3. We lost the feel of The City, they watered down the factions, we lost climbing ropes entirely, sword fighting was gone, the levels were tiny, the "shoot-em-um" bow upgrades were silly ("ah, I can shoot beetles now!"). Granted, the new light engine was quite cool, they kept the between level movies, Garrett still had his own voice, and the game did have its moments, but it really fell a notch in my opinion.

Whenever I hear someone talking about "respecting fans and remaining true to the source material" I shudder. Regardless of the quality of the production, apply those terms to Lord of the Rings, Transformers, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, and any number of other re-launches. Not that they are not entertaining, but they often strayed from canon in ways that were crucial to the original material. Change can be good. Can be.

[dda]

The Thief games are my favourite of all time (I love Deus Ex as well, even liked DX:IW!) and while I am happy about the official announcement of Thief 4 I can't help but feel it's an anti climax of sorts.

Seems to me that they just completed the remaining 50% of the annoucement that began last year with the ad asking for new hires for a game starting with "T".

Now, they have confirmed what we already knew anyway, but are not giving out any info about the game!

I am 30 something, with 21 years of gaming under my belt. This annoucement is the most disappointing and frustrating one that I have ever seen!

[DarthEnder]

I don't keep abreast of Eidos news(other than I heard Squareenix wanted to buy them), so this was the first I'd heard of a new Thief.

[randomtaffer]

:hmm:

I'm not sure that there's much info to give out about the game. You can't give for sure details on something that doesn't exist yet.

Thief 4 confirmation is a wonderful announcement, I'm just relieved that they're valuing hearing our input this time.

[dda]

According to an interview the other day Stéphane says they have nailed down the story. I'm not expecting concept art, screenshots or trailers, however I did expect and hope they would have let out some info on the story (such as, yes it will still be set in the proper Thief universe and not modernised)

My 2 cents worth about setting, character etc
- Use the same medival/victorian/steampunk/supernatural universe
- Keep it first person
- Keep the light gem and use of sound - don't introduce ANY changes to the stealth mechanics
- Bring back the fantastic video briefing format from T1 & T2
- Bring back Garrett or introduce a new logical (i.e the girl at the end of T3) character who is awesome like Garrett but still their own person
- Keep the established base Thief tool set (bow, water arrows etc), build on in if desired but don't introduce new wacky stuff like a BFB 9000 (Big F**king Bow!!)

[randomtaffer]

According to an interview the other day Stéphane says they have nailed down the story. I'm not expecting concept art, screenshots or trailers, however I did expect and hope they would have let out some info on the story (such as, yes it will still be set in the proper Thief universe and not modernised)

My 2 cents worth about setting, character etc
- Use the same medival/victorian/steampunk/supernatural universe
- Keep it first person
- Keep the light gem and use of sound - don't introduce ANY changes to the stealth mechanics
- Bring back the fantastic video briefing format from T1 & T2
- Bring back Garrett or introduce a new logical (i.e the girl at the end of T3) character who is awesome like Garrett but still their own person
- Keep the established base Thief tool set (bow, water arrows etc), build on in if desired but don't introduce new wacky stuff like a BFB 9000 (Big F**king Bow!!)

Again...No one has said anything about Thief 4 being modern. That was Ion Storm's idea. Ion Storm is no longer alive.

[René]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/982/982148p1.html

I love your signature!

[René]

Hi dda, I can understand some of your points. But we wanted to finally and officially confirm the rumour that had been out there for so long and just be able to finally announce it. Your info requests are completely reasonable and they will certainly be addressed the next time you hear about the game. But for now, it's official, and it's coming! A new Thief game after all these years!

[VIKTORIA]

We are elated that EM are blessed with tools of hammer and chisel to work towards progress. :cool:

[dda]

Hi dda, I can understand some of your points. But we wanted to finally and officially confirm the rumour that had been out there for so long and just be able to finally announce it. Your info requests are completely reasonable and they will certainly be addressed the next time you hear about the game. But for now, it's official, and it's coming! A new Thief game after all these years!

:worship: ===> Rene! Despite my *****ing, I, as a Thief & Deus ex fan-man (not boy!), do believe you guys will deliver fantastic games in both franchises.

Although the waiting is painful, when you release DX3 later this year and T4 next year the awesomeness will be worth it!! :D ;)

[vasanx]

Hopefully they won't do with Thief 4 (just can't bring myself to type "Thi4f"... even the producers of Tron 2 saw the stupidity of using "TR2N" as a name) that they did with Thief 3. We lost the feel of The City, they watered down the factions, we lost climbing ropes entirely, sword fighting was gone, the levels were tiny, the "shoot-em-um" bow upgrades were silly ("ah, I can shoot beetles now!"). Granted, the new light engine was quite cool, they kept the between level movies, Garrett still had his own voice, and the game did have its moments, but it really fell a notch in my opinion.

Whenever I hear someone talking about "respecting fans and remaining true to the source material" I shudder. Regardless of the quality of the production, apply those terms to Lord of the Rings, Transformers, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, and any number of other re-launches. Not that they are not entertaining, but they often strayed from canon in ways that were crucial to the original material. Change can be good. Can be.

Finally! A fellow taffer who can't stand TDS.

Seriously, i really don't get what the hoo-ha is with this announcement. Shudn't everyone be worried?

I mean, i hate to be a pessimist, but some things never change.

Maethius pretty much covered everything with what went wrong in TDS. I don't know about you people but i hated how cartoon-like the guards looked in that game. And rag doll physics in that game was really somethin. You could make balloon animals out of those guards.

And what's with the weird ass purple theme? If there's a color to follow in Thief, it's BLACK!!!
Shadows, hello?

Ubisoft Montreal must not think like Ubisoft Montreal. They must think like Looking Glass.

Imagine how TDS would have turned out if it was done by LG. That's how UM must approach T4.

Look only at TDP and TMA and nothin else.

Readin up on what that Stephane dude said is very, very discouraging to say the least.

He plays Assassin's Creed for reference? Great! Assassin's Creed only sucked monkey's balls the last time i played it. Repetitive gameplay redefined. Ubisoft still owes me money for that steaming pile of dung Jade calls a game.

The dude also mentioned staying true to the original with the technology being improved on. if he sticks to his word and doesn't pull a Cevat Yerli then T4 could be a worthy successor.

Can u imagine that happening? The same Thief look and feel only, everything is updated.
The guards look more realistic but still retain that look from TDP and TMA. That's all they gotta do. No reinterpreting is necessary. We know you're creative just, don't get too creative. Please? That's how TDS got botched up by the way.

The thing is, the Stephane dude himself acknowledges how successful the first two games were. That same group from `98 is still here. We may be older and potbellied but we're still here. Just go to ttlg.com and see for yourselves. People are still playing fan made missions for TDP and TMA 10 plus years on for crying out loud.

Concentrate on these people. Forget new fans. New fans/ kids are too busy shooting and blowing up sh*t to buy into Thief's stealth mechanics.

I seriously doubt you can gain new fans without turning Garrett or his successor into some Niko Bellic type "protagonist".

What you can do is make a game that stays true to the original (TDS excluded of course) and i bet you the `98 group will make it GOTY.

When the kids learn of this, they'll give the demo a try and before you know it, you have your new fans.

It's that simple. At least in my head. I'm pretty sure none of this is gonna happen. T4 gonna try to pull in the new crowd by deviating and ultimately end up alienating the fanmen and giving the haters of this genre more reason to continue the hatin.

I can already see Adam Sessler and Morgan Webb making fun out of T4. IGN giving a 5/10 or some sh*t like that.

I'm sorry EM but this is my stand until i see the in-game video.

[Corvin25]

"It's safe to say that there's an association of stealth games being boring and slow-paced. And we're fully aware of that. I think we'll try to repeat what the first game did, which is to really break ground on the traditional way of playing. And I think if we want to do a fully stealth game, it's going to be, I hope, very innovative and bring a lot of new things to the table," D'Astous said.


This little quote really worries me, as I'm sure it does many of your fans. Do NOT try to make the game more "exciting." I've heard this whole "we're re-inventing the genre" stuff before. But too often people are so busy looking forward that they learn nothing from the past.

Thief 1 and 2 were not broken. But when Ion Storm made TDS, they went in and tried to "fix" it by adding a ton of needless features that really didn't have any business being there. The massive console-sized health meter and equipment icons, 3rd person view, removed mission briefing cutscenes, and worst of all, chopped up levels into cramped little segments.

I know you're looking to make a profit, but PLEASE, don't go out of your way to make Thief a "fast paced" game for the Halo players. The whole idea behind the series was that you needed to be meticulous and cunning in your approach, as opposed to thinking "on the fly" with last minute solutions to problems. There are literally thousands of games where things are fast and chaotic. Thief is one of the few series that was meant to reward a smooth, flawless operation.

Take for example, horror movies. A true masterpiece of horror is just that... horrifying. The audience is on the edge of their seat, quivering with anticipation, or white-faced at whatever atrocity has just been committed. It evokes a feeling of vulnerability and fear of the unknown, the unseen. An example of this woudl be the "Alien" franchise. Then you have the "new" movies, which try to "scare" people by going "BOO" every minute or so. BLARGH!!!! loud noises and ghost! .... quiet, quiet.... BAAAAHHH!! Oh, it's just a shado-AAAAAAH!! Do you remember the movie "Darkness Falls?" I do, and I roll my eyes just thinking about it. That's not scary. That's just nerve-wracking and irritating.

So I repeat: Don't try to make the game more "exciting." You'll have plenty of people lining up for non-stop action when Deus Ex 3 comes out.

Oh, and one more thing:

Don't use Assassin's Creed as a Reference. :(

Please... just don't. I don't mind the whole "blending into a crowd" aspect that could be used, but Altair (the character in AC) was specially trained as an assassin, working in broad daylight. For the amount of immersion we want in Thief 4... superhuman stunts, 3rd person views, and acrobatic group sword combat are not what we are looking for. We want that feeling of vulnerability, that distinct feeling that we CAN be killed just like anybody else, that if we just rush into the mission blindly, that we will be retiring early.

I hope you'll take this little tirade/lecture/appeal/rant to heart, and I'm sure your fanbase will thank you if you do.

[esme]

hear hear :thumb:

[Specter]

It would be nice if we, the end users, had some way of making particular posts 'stickies' for the Devs and Mods to read. If a post garnered enough votes, it could be highlighted for people to see. The original post here would be at the top for me.

Weird... this must have been merged with another thread. My post above doesn't even make sense anymore.

[Mikes170]

Yeah Well said, dont sell out and make it for the mass, what you have is
original i loved the atmosphere, the problems that you came across, not just go charging in, you gotta plan ahead or slip past unseen.. just fix the AI so they dont walk over tables and boxes and your already on for a winner!

[VIKTORIA]

It would be nice if we, the end users, had some way of making particular posts 'stickies' for the Devs and Mods to read. If a post garnered enough votes, it could be highlighted for people to see. The original post here would be at the top for me.

If that was the case, all the threads in here would be stickies... judging from the passion every one of us holds for Thief. :D

But don't worry, they are keeping an eye on all discussion and the 'Keeper Diary' section allows them speedy reference to any particular topic, with all your suggestions conveniently in one place. :cool:

Indiviidual poll threads are also linked via Keeper Diary... so just create them and start voting :thumb:

[esme]

just a suggestion but get the development team to sit down and play the dark project and the metal age, maybe even a few of the fan missions

that universe is basically what we want just on a better engine

[vasanx]

just a suggestion but get the development team to sit down and play the dark project and the metal age, maybe even a few of the fan missions

that universe is basically what we want just on a better engine

YES! They have to! Every one of em. Even the janitor.

Play TDP and TMA already. Not Assassin's Snore!

"that universe is basically what we want just on a better engine"

This really is the single best sentence to describe us Thief fans.

[Aceyalone7777]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/982/982148p1.html

Well here is the article in ign with Stephane D'Astous about the new Thief game.
If you read the article you will see points as

1.{"I think shooters are fine – it's an adrenaline rush. But I think the RPGs in recent years are really gaining a lot of momentum," said D'Astous. "People want to have a richer experience. They want to have choices in their gameplay and I think games are getting more and more sophisticated with storytelling, and I think we can certainly do something with that with Thief."}

- Thief is no Deus Ex. RPG elements would make no sense in Thief nor upgrades. Plz No! If you mean RPG by the fact that you get to be Thief and play an adventure its ok. But dont do stupid staff like multiple endings (get real, nobody likes multiple endings) or experience points (.....no comment), Plz!

2.{"We want to bring something new to the table, because these games sold respectably [in the past], but we want to bring it to another level. We want to have a larger audience without diluting the content," said D'Astous. "That is the real challenge, to bring it to a larger audience but without making it too easy or too thin on content. We're going to bring certainly a lot of innovation to both [Thief 4 and Deus Ex 3]."}

- Well, innovation but sticking with the first 2 things doesnt have to be bad. But REMEBER Ion Storm's mistakes (open-world = fail, climbing gloves = fail, fences = fail). Plz stick to the T1 + T2 and try to a make damn good and immersive game. A good innovation could be multiplayer with players split in thieves and guards, trying to accomplish objectives (see Thievery UT and Splinter Cell multiplayer).

-And what do u mean by "these games sold respectably [in the past], but we want to bring it to another level". The past games, made thief what it is today. And not Thief 3... Plz, show some respect here...

3.{"It's safe to say that there's an association of stealth games being boring and slow-paced. And we're fully aware of that. I think we'll try to repeat what the first game did, which is to really break ground on the traditional way of playing. And I think if we want to do a fully stealth game, it's going to be, I hope, very innovative and bring a lot of new things to the table"}

- Well, Thief IS supposed to be SLOW-PACED. Tense and atmosphere, or some plot not for the weak-hearted would be Awesome and totally Necessary. This is what made Thief good. Taking your time finishing the missions. Exploring even the smallest bit. Uncovering well kept secrets and loot. And Thief being slow, kept your tense for longer.

-Break ground on the traditional way of playing??? Well, adding some stuff here and there is good. Thief 2 did that and Thief got more amazing. You can see the T3 example. Tried to change too much and failed to match the previous 2. As a game was good, but nothing as a masterpiece. Not Break Ground... The basic concept should and must remain the same UNCHANGED!

4.{It's going to be cutting edge technology, that's for sure.}

- Hell, yeah! We all love high-end graphics in our PC. Also graphics is the first thing an eye cathes when first time sees a game so = better sales. So, go for it all the way, JUST DONT even think of downgrading the rest of the content if favor of the graphics. PLZ!

I apologise if I was too hard on criticism. I just dont want to see a game such as Thief failing in effort to get larger audience. Plz return to its roots. A better marketing and less innovations would make the game more good. We just want to see a Hell of a Thief this time around.

Comments and opinions plz... :D

[ElizabethSterling]

Someone needs to slap this idiot's hands away from the controls right now, they're clearly only looking at it from a marketing perspective. We do NOT need another Warren Spector to ruin everything.

IF we want to do a full stealth game? IF? This is THIEF! You don't do Thief unless you want to do a full stealth game because that's what THIEF is! As for 'boring', why not go back to promoting Space Marine grunt-and-shoot 12, junior? We don't need you here.

[Necros]

Don't use Assassin's Creed as a Reference. :(
If third person view will be an option, than they should look at AC. Otherwise, not much to take from it.
YES! They have to! Every one of em. Even the janitor.

Play TDP and TMA already. Not Assassin's Snore!

"that universe is basically what we want just on a better engine"

This really is the single best sentence to describe us Thief fans.
They know the Thief games very well, don't missunderstand what he was trying to say. :rolleyes:

[tender19]

Agree with OP. What's going on here? This interview is just marketing mumbo-jumbo: EM got the rights to make a Thief game, all they need to do, is copypaste. There are so much dumb games nowadays, that releasing the first Thief now would be also a hit. Of cours, I except innovation, but not a complete new way.

[Espion]

I don't understand why they need to use the Thief title/universe if they have no plans to make a Thief game. If they want to make a game like it but not the same then create some new IP, cite Thief as your inspiration, and go for it.

That's what Bioshock did and it sold well. It was only a shadow of the System Shock games but that's still better than claiming to make a sequel of a game, exciting all the fans, then producing something that ignores all the reasons the fans like the original product.

Those answers have got me worried now :(

[Teasza]

If you really look at the article, all D'Astous is really repeating is vague jargon about "bringing new exciting stuff to the table". Sounds like PR waffle to me. He's not actually given any solid information at all.

The more specific questions that he apparently refused to answer are worthy of attention, though:
Would Garrett return as the main character? Would voice actor Stephen Russell reprise his role? How would stealth be handled? Would it be open-world?
Ok, this could mean two things. One, that they DO mean to get back to the essence of Thief, and they want to wait before everything's in the bag (hiring Stephen Russell etc) before giving us the good news. Development announcements like these thrive on suspense, after all. But the second option is that they have ideas that are taking them in a different direction, and they want to establish that direction properly before experiencing a backlash from fans.

I think the fact that they have opened up this forum while being in the very early stages of development means they really do want fans' opinions, and we could actually sway things the way we want them with enough vocality.

I do worry that they're going to pull an Oblivion and dumb things way down so they can appeal to a new generation of twitchy gamers. Looking Glass died because they were determined to make art rather than pandering to the status quo, and while I believe Eidos truly do want to keep the spirit of these games alive, they're not going to make the same mistake. In the end, this is about money, and they're not going to make an amazingly faithful Thief game if it's going to send them bankrupt.

I think we're in for some changes. But we still have a voice here, and we can at least get them to see how many of us will buy a true Thief game.

[Altair]

I do worry that they're going to pull an Oblivion and dumb things way down so they can appeal to a new generation of twitchy gamers. Looking Glass died because they were determined to make art rather than pandering to the status quo, and while I believe Eidos truly do want to keep the spirit of these games alive, they're not going to make the same mistake. In the end, this is about money, and they're not going to make an amazingly faithful Thief game if it's going to send them bankrupt.

That's my worry as well...I don't mind them "innovating" and making Thief to appeal to a larger audience, as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the established Thief guidelines: rich plot, focus on stealth, steam-punk setting, and of course, Garret.

[NathanGPLC]

While I agree with the OP in many ways, I do have to say that if they want to change the game up and reach for a larger audience without 'diluting the content,' I'd prefer an RPG-based multiple-path game to an FPS style game.

Not all Thief 1&2 fans disliked the open city movement and interactions with fences from Thief 3. And, personally, I'd love to see a Thief game that was a little more like Deus Ex 1 and involved an experience system. I don't think it's necessary, but I'd prefer that to a game that made Thief into a shooter with a stealth component. I liked Chronicles of Riddicc (mispelled on purpose), but this is Thief. Multiple gameplay paths (ie, you can put points into combat or stealth and either is playable) and multiple endings (killing the baddie directly vs ghosting the level ala Thief 2's ending) would be preferable to playing a combat game where you can hide from the enemy sometimes.

Blessed be,
~Nathan

[Tatyana's Flowers]

Thief = stealth = slow = good

Thief = run'n'gun = no good

[vasanx]

They know the Thief games very well, don't missunderstand what he was trying to say. :rolleyes:

Misunderstand what exactly?

He wants the same universe on a better engine and I concurred. What are you getting at?

[tender19]

Thief = run'n'gun = paradox

Fix'd. :D

[DarthEnder]

My enthusiasm for Thief 4 is now officially tempered...

Somehow, I'm picturing Fallout 3 here(which I loved btw). With Garrett getting xp, leveling up, sucking at stealth in the beginning and getting more skill in it. Sucking at picking locks until you skill up in it....

It actually doesn't sound like too bad a game, but it's definitely not the game I want to play when I put a Thief game in the drive.

[Hellion]

Somehow, I'm picturing Fallout 3 here(which I loved btw).

That's exactly what popped into my mind as well (with the exception that I loathe Fallout 3 with every fiber of my being, but anyway :P)

All that talk about "very excited to be working on it", "willing to bring innovations in it" but "always listening to the...hardcore fans" and "even though WE CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE we'll be seeking out the best compromise possible between old and new!!!!111one" is EXACTLY what the bethesda PR machine kept spewing out when F3 was first announced, and look where that got us in regards to "compromise between the old and new".

Then again, bethesda is run by a complete idiot of a man so I have my doubts as to whether this might be the case with Thief 4 as well.

[Nate]

Yeah, the experience point system would make no sense with a character who is already at his peak ability and has been for over a decade.

Suddenly Garrett breaks into an abandoned home and steals a chair leg = he gains enough experience to reach the next level = idiocy!

Besides, not having to put in an XP system and balance = more time for Eidos to work on everything else = good for all.

[DarknessFalls]

okay, after reading that latest IGN interview, I am also a bit worried now. But I am hopeful nothing is set in stone and the game will take shape based on Thief fan desires.

Please no Thief with RPG elements where you level up or have to talk with people and depending on which of 5 answers you choose it makes your character a certain way. No linear gameplay. No loot glint... use gold to denote value. Please don't aim to have the gameplay pre-scripted and all cinematic like every other game is nowadays (no game these days have true replay value as a result of the linear corridors you follow and pre-scripted events that occur while in those corridors). We're not wanting to watch a film, we're wanting to play a game. No shadow paths everywhere like T3. No cinematic jump to 3rd person fly around slo-mo camera pan when knocking out a guard. Please have paintings on walls that look classic and have variety. some can have elements of unique magic, like Thief 2. Please bring back secret switches, secret tunnels, secret corridors behind mansion walls, secret fireplace corridors, etc. and make the switches hard to find.

Maybe I am alone with the above sentiment- but I really just want Thief 2 with an updated game engine. Not an updated Thief 3 engine. but rather an updated original Dark Engine.

Assassins Creed was awful in almost every way imaginable. Fallout 3 and Morrowind should not be your guiding lights :)

[vasanx]

Maybe I am alone with the above sentiment- but I really just want Thief 2 with an updated game engine. Not an updated Thief 3 engine. but rather an updated original Dark Engine.


Trust me buddy, you're not alone.


Assassins Creed was awful in almost every way imaginable.


Thank you for acknowledging Assassin's Snore.

[esme]

Misunderstand what exactly?

He wants the same universe on a better engine and I concurred. What are you getting at?

ahem .. She

it's not just guys who playor make mods for Thief ... esme is short for esmerelda

and no thats not my real name ;)

regarding character control

I have a suspicion about the decision not to release a playable demo of assassins creed, I don't think sales would have been as high had one been released and I reckon the marketing team thought the same, people were expecting to be able to control the character and were disappointed with the automatic parkour where they just sat there with a finger on the forward button or the prescripted ballet of mayhem sequences where they hit a couple of keys and went to make coffee as Altaïr dispatched a bunch of AI's on autopilot

we want to immerse and become the character, and for that we need to be able to run and jump and mantle and make mistakes and pay for them when we get it wrong, we don't need or want an autopilot, we want control of the character. Thief : The Dark Project got it about right and Thief : The Metal Age just about perfected it Thief : Deadly Shadows tried to improve on it and broke the movement of the character so leaning round corners put you in full view or made you fall off the beam, jumping was no longer the precision instrument we had in the early versions it was still playable but it wasn't as good

[vasanx]

ahem .. She

it's not just guys who playor make mods for Thief ... esme is short for esmerelda

and no thats not my real name ;)

:flowers:

Of course. :D

You're Esme. How could I have missed that? :mad2:

[esme]

no worries & thanks for the flowers

[esme]

oooo just a thought but how about automatic distance fogging so if you have do an incredibly long sight line the engine doesn't spend all it's time trying to render details that are less than a pixel big

after all I can see leaves on trees in my garden, but the leaves on the trees in the forest on the hill over the way merge together, in fact the trees tend to merge together into a big mass of forest

[BlooferLady]

I'm trying to not get too worried over this. They haven't really given us anything yet.

As far as I'm concerned, the announcement that they are developing Thief 4 is nothing more than Eidos saying, it's going to be made. The article above says nothing more to me than: we don't know anything about it yet, but it needs to make us money. And I can't really blame them for that. It is a business, after all.

BUT! They are giving us a voice before this project really gets rolling, and that is an encouraging thought. Can't ask for a more vocal community than the Thief fans!

[kaekaelyn]

Oh dear...

[VIKTORIA]

BUT! They are giving us a voice before this project really gets rolling, and that is an encouraging thought. Can't ask for a more vocal community than the Thief fans!

Seconded. :cool:

[Flashart]

Plus, if they please the original gamers, "word of mouth" is gonna attract the new ones.
If you build it, they will come....

[VIKTORIA]

Yes, and I think it is fair to say that EM could receive several GOTY awards if they play their glyphs right. :cool:

[Wazootyman]

I'm trying to not get too worried over this. They haven't really given us anything yet.

As far as I'm concerned, the announcement that they are developing Thief 4 is nothing more than Eidos saying, it's going to be made. The article above says nothing more to me than: we don't know anything about it yet, but it needs to make us money. And I can't really blame them for that. It is a business, after all.

BUT! They are giving us a voice before this project really gets rolling, and that is an encouraging thought. Can't ask for a more vocal community than the Thief fans!

Well said, that is also my opinion in a nutshell. I remain cautiously optimistic.

[DarknessFalls]

Yes, and I think it is fair to say that EM could receive several GOTY awards if they play their glyphs right. :cool:

I like the subtle glyph reference ;) Hope that's a glyph in the medieval and Victorian times, Viktoria, :)

[VIKTORIA]

Medieval would be my choice. :cool:

But I know more than you do, I'm just the humble housekeeper here! :whistle:
:D

[InGroove2]

This little quote really worries me, as I'm sure it does many of your fans. Do NOT try to make the game more "exciting." I've heard this whole "we're re-inventing the genre" stuff before. But too often people are so busy looking forward that they learn nothing from the past.

Thief 1 and 2 were not broken. But when Ion Storm made TDS, they went in and tried to "fix" it by adding a ton of needless features that really didn't have any business being there. The massive console-sized health meter and equipment icons, 3rd person view, removed mission briefing cutscenes, and worst of all, chopped up levels into cramped little segments.

I know you're looking to make a profit, but PLEASE, don't go out of your way to make Thief a "fast paced" game for the Halo players. The whole idea behind the series was that you needed to be meticulous and cunning in your approach, as opposed to thinking "on the fly" with last minute solutions to problems. There are literally thousands of games where things are fast and chaotic. Thief is one of the few series that was meant to reward a smooth, flawless operation.

Take for example, horror movies. A true masterpiece of horror is just that... horrifying. The audience is on the edge of their seat, quivering with anticipation, or white-faced at whatever atrocity has just been committed. It evokes a feeling of vulnerability and fear of the unknown, the unseen. An example of this woudl be the "Alien" franchise. Then you have the "new" movies, which try to "scare" people by going "BOO" every minute or so. BLARGH!!!! loud noises and ghost! .... quiet, quiet.... BAAAAHHH!! Oh, it's just a shado-AAAAAAH!! Do you remember the movie "Darkness Falls?" I do, and I roll my eyes just thinking about it. That's not scary. That's just nerve-wracking and irritating.

So I repeat: Don't try to make the game more "exciting." You'll have plenty of people lining up for non-stop action when Deus Ex 3 comes out.

Oh, and one more thing:

Don't use Assassin's Creed as a Reference. :(

Please... just don't. I don't mind the whole "blending into a crowd" aspect that could be used, but Altair (the character in AC) was specially trained as an assassin, working in broad daylight. For the amount of immersion we want in Thief 4... superhuman stunts, 3rd person views, and acrobatic group sword combat are not what we are looking for. We want that feeling of vulnerability, that distinct feeling that we CAN be killed just like anybody else, that if we just rush into the mission blindly, that we will be retiring early.

I hope you'll take this little tirade/lecture/appeal/rant to heart, and I'm sure your fanbase will thank you if you do.


while i agree. i think it would be fair of us to allow the possibility that just because he uses the word "exciting" he means alot of flash and hollywood BS. i mean, i found thief EXCITING. i would call it pure EXCITEMENT. so it seems reasonable to think taht if they are talking about the first game and going from there and then bringing in exciting things.... maybe they're just talking about making EXCITING things that are slower, creepier, more fun within the realm of what makes a stealth game fun.

i'm just saying. his use of EXCITING is not necessarily indicative of what you think

[Maethius]

Having little to no combat ability, crouching in a dark hallway and screwing with a stubborn lock as footsteps and torchlight draw ever nearer = near panic attack excitement, if it's done right. It seems to me that the vast majority of fans are all about retaining this aspect without making the came "more exciting" ... (try to imagine Garrett at a strafing run across a courtyard, slinging a dozen arrows into a "boss guard") Oi!

For most corporate monkeys, please see "Ultima 10" for an example of improvement we seem to wish to avoid.

I would love to see a blend of the Dark Engine brought up to snuff, the lighting effects of the Thief 3 engine in the mix, the improved AI/sound/item interaction we know is possible, and a better damage system. Let's face it, I don't care if you see me now or not, my arrow is STILL going to pierce your chest! It would be very cool to improve aiming/damage, such as being able to target a guard's hand to make him drop his sword. Even better, let the arrows stick wherever they land in the target unless they are taken out by the victim or by you.

As for Garrett as the main character, I am leaning toward saying "yep" to that. "Thief" is really about his story, isn't it? Not his world, HIM. The title could synonymously be changed to "Garrett." I'm not opposed to it starring another thief, but in that case Garrett the Keeper should feature somehow as a prominent protagonist or antagonist.

[René]

Don't forget to check out the Facebook group's Videos (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=81350002691) sections for a couple of videos related to the interview.

Or you can view them here:

Electric Playground (http://www.dailymotion.com/user/rvalen/video/x9cwhm_thief-4-announcement-interview-elec_videogames)
M.Net (French) (http://www.musiqueplus.com/emissions/mnet/techno.html?id=mnet20090511topo1_687561.mp4)

[Wazootyman]

Don't forget to check out the Facebook group's Videos (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=81350002691) sections for a couple of videos related to the interview.

Or you can view them here:

Electric Playground (http://www.dailymotion.com/user/rvalen/video/x9cwhm_thief-4-announcement-interview-elec_videogames)
M.Net (French) (http://www.musiqueplus.com/emissions/mnet/techno.html?id=mnet20090511topo1_687561.mp4)

Mr. D'Astous makes a good point, in that for many of the devs, these games (Deus Ex 3 and Thief 4) are their "life projects", possibly the biggest and most significant series they will work on, and that for them it's a great honor to be able to contribute to them. Knowing this is the case reassures me that Thief is in good hands.

In the English video, there are a couple shots of devs at work, and you can briefly see a few in-development assets on their screens. However, the video is of low quality and the bits shown are vague enough that it's next to impossible to tell what you're looking at.

With the regards to the French video, I was able to pick out a few snippets, but French is not my first language and the shaky grasp I have is a bit rusty these days, so I missed the majority of what was said. I know it's a long video, but are there any French speakers here on the boards willing to post a transcript (even just a partial one of highlights) of that interview? It was quite lengthy and I'd be interested to see if there is any new information to be gained from it.

[kin]

It would be nice if someone could translate it. At least the important info if there is any.

[Necros]

Yes, please, someone translate what they were talking about!

Or René, could you reupload the video with English subtitles?

[René]

In the English video, there are a couple shots of devs at work, and you can briefly see a few in-development assets on their screens.

Those would be DX3 devs. :)

[René]

Or René, could you reupload the video with English subtitles?

Holy smokes I'm daft! Good suggestion. We'll try and get it turned around asap and I'll post it here! :nut:

[VIKTORIA]

Thanks, Rene. :thumb:

[René]

File attached! Hope it works! (video is here (http://www.musiqueplus.com/emissions/mnet/techno.html?id=mnet20090511topo1_687561.mp4))

88

[VIKTORIA]

Cheers Rene. :cool:
But is it just me, or is anyone else having trouble opening the video and doc files? :o

[Hammarhaus]

Trouble downloading the video :hmm:
The document is fine, though.

Thanks!

[Necros]

Thanks René! :thumb: :)

[VIKTORIA]

Trouble downloading the video :hmm:
The document is fine, though.

Thanks!

When I try to open document I get message: "unable to load graphics conversion filter'. :scratch:
Never had this before and I'm not very technical-minded. Anyone know what I should do... or can anyone copy and paste the transcript in here? Thank you.

[GmanPro]

Here ya go ;)

Denis Talbot
“There were rumours, ladies and gentlemen; rumours on the internet which spread like wildfire. It was said that Eidos Montréal (now possibly Square-Enix) had a special announcement to make and who better to speak to us about it than Eidos Montréal’s own General Manager, Stéphane D’Astous”
Stéphane D’Astous
“Hello Denis, how are you?”
Talbot [0:20]
“I’m well, yes. Now, is it Eidos Square-Enix or Eidos Montréal?”
D’Astous
“Before we start, Denis, to be able to go home tonight, I have to salute my troops; I’d like to say hi to Tamara, Antoine and Vincent. Secondly, I would like to congratulate the whole Mnet team for their tenth year; great job, with more than 1500 episodes!”
Talbot [0:41]
“We hope to be able to keep going for a while. Moving on, now, it Eidos Square-Enix or is it Eidos Montréal?”
D’Astous
“Square-Enix is the holdings company, so, we will be an independent division. Square-Enix [holdings] currently has three independent divisions; Square-Enix, Taito (who handles Arcades) and Eidos.”
Talbot [1:00]
“So, more work for you, in prospect?”
D’Astous
“Absolutely.”
Talbot [1:03]
“Did the Japanese come down often to visit your studio, or...?”
D’Astous
“They did come down a couple of times to visit the studio, to see what they would acquire. We presented all the projects we had in development and they were, I believe, very pleased with what they saw.”
Talbot [1:19]
“I’ve heard that there is a big announcement today, I think everybody knows.”
D’Astous
“What do you mean “everybody knows” [laughs].”

Talbot [1:27]
“Well, that’s the rumour, at least.”
D’Astous
“We’ve wanted to announce it for a while now and today, officially, we can say that Eidos Montréal will develop the fourth entry in the Thief franchise which is a huge franchise in Eidos’ history. Many Thief games were recognized as ‘Hall of Fame’ games and ‘Game of the Year’, etc.”
Talbot [1:53]
“Here, we were saddened when the announcement was made that the third game [Thief: Deadly Shadows] was to be the final entry in the franchise. We were asking ourselves why Eidos didn’t pursue this franchise; we were the biggest fans of that game. So, finally, you decided to take this IP – which is a huge IP – and create…”
D’Astous
“Well, it was part of my initial mandate, when Eidos Montréal was started initially; we had two games in mind (obviously Deus Ex being the first). Both games are such classics when it comes to Eidos franchises and finally, the Thief team crossed very important milestones to allow us to announce this fourth title in the franchise.”
Talbot [2:35]
“Since we are on the subject, I’d like to chat a bit about the initial process (without going into too much detail). So, you are given the mandate to create this game but it’s not like you are handed a budget and told to start development – what’s the important step that you have to complete first?”
D’Astous
“Well, we receive an order from Eidos management. So, our first goal is to recruit the initial team – the heart of the project – which is roughly 15 to 20 employees which will remain for the entire project. They must study and create the initial concept – this took a few months. Once this step is complete, Eidos management is more comfortable with their decision making in regards to the project going forward.”
Talbot [3:19]
“Can you give us the name of the person responsible – the Producer?”
D’Astous
“Our producer is Mario Aguera, he comes from Eidos UK and he’s an excellent producer – I’m really glad to have him on our team. He surrounded himself with an incredible team from around the world – not just from Montréal – but from France, England, United-States, Australia and etc. It’s really an international team.”
Talbot [3:48]
“Talk to us a bit about his background – did he work on the previous Thief games?”

D’Astous
“No, unfortunately, Thief, as you know, was developed by Ion Storm and Looking Glass. These two studios were based in the United States (Ion Storm out of Austin Texas and Looking Glass out of Cambridge). The first game came out in 1998 and the latest entry was five years ago, in May of 2004. So, our goal is to bring back this classic on a new level; one that’s never been seen before.”
Talbot [4:20]
“Now, I know that it’s a bit delicate to ask you this, but, it’s my job after all; can you give us any details on the story/when the game takes place – can you tell us a bit about this?”
D’Astous
“I would love to, but it’s something that will eventually be released in another wave of communication. Today, we really just wanted to officially announce the game and announce that Eidos Montréal is no longer a ‘one game’ studio; we are the studio of two incredible franchises. We are following our business plan – we always said that after 3 years, we would eventually have 3 titles in the works with a full QA team and that’s exactly what we are doing. Things are going well for us.”
Talbot [5:00]
“How’s it going with Deus Ex 3, is it advancing well?”
D’Astous
“The team is in full development, we are crossing very important milestones in production and we are very anxious to show the game to everyone, eventually.”
Talbot [5:16]
“Will this be done at the E3 convention?”
D’Astous
“It was a corporative decision and we decided that it was wise to pass E3 2009 since we have other important projects that are nearing completion. Batman [Arkham Asylum] is a highly anticipated title and we also have Mini Ninjas which is developed by our friends in Copenhagen – IO Interactive. Finally, there is Just Cause 2 which is produced by Avalanche. We will be showing these titles at E3 2009. There is a good chance that we will be at E3 2010, however.”
Talbot [5:51]
“Are you still hiring a lot of people at Eidos Montréal?”
D’Astous
“Yes, absolutely, we wanted to let everyone know that since Thief is now in pre-production, we invite anyone that is interested in working on this cult franchise to apply to a position on our site. We are looking for roughly 40 people to start in the next 6 months.”

Talbot [6:33]
“Can you give us a date for when you will be demoing Deus Ex 3?”
D’Astous
“It’s difficult to say at this point since we really want to take our time to nail this title – we only have one chance to properly introduce Deus Ex 3 to the world and the expectations are high. We don’t have any leverage – we must absolutely deliver. We don’t want to add any additional pressure and deadlines. Once we will be ready to announce and demonstrate the game, we will certainly let you know.”
Talbot [7:07]
“The rumours were crazy [over the announcement], we read/heard a bunch of stuff like Lara Croft or the next Hitman... ”
D’Astous
“I did enjoy leaking a few hints like on Facebook when I said the next project would be something that started with the letter ‘T’. Many people responded and believed that Tomb Raider could be it but I can now assure you that the next title is Thief – we are really happy about this and proud to be working on this franchise.
Talbot [7:38]
“Thanks a lot for coming in and do let us know as soon as you have any additional news.”
D’Astous
“I invite everyone to come visit our website to find any information and; we will have a forum dedicated to Thief 4. So, anyone can communicate their expectations with us via this forum. We will also be on Twitter and we now have an online shop on our website where people can buy different things.”

[VIKTORIA]

THANK YOU! :thumb:

Fab interview, and I've highlighted the most relevant points. :) Good comments there, T4 sounds very promising indeed. :cool:


Denis Talbot
“There were rumours, ladies and gentlemen; rumours on the internet which spread like wildfire. It was said that Eidos Montréal (now possibly Square-Enix) had a special announcement to make and who better to speak to us about it than Eidos Montréal’s own General Manager, Stéphane D’Astous”
Stéphane D’Astous
“Hello Denis, how are you?”
Talbot [0:20]
“I’m well, yes. Now, is it Eidos Square-Enix or Eidos Montréal?”
D’Astous
“Before we start, Denis, to be able to go home tonight, I have to salute my troops; I’d like to say hi to Tamara, Antoine and Vincent. Secondly, I would like to congratulate the whole Mnet team for their tenth year; great job, with more than 1500 episodes!”
Talbot [0:41]
“We hope to be able to keep going for a while. Moving on, now, it Eidos Square-Enix or is it Eidos Montréal?”
D’Astous
“Square-Enix is the holdings company, so, we will be an independent division. Square-Enix [holdings] currently has three independent divisions; Square-Enix, Taito (who handles Arcades) and Eidos.”
Talbot [1:00]
“So, more work for you, in prospect?”
D’Astous
“Absolutely.”
Talbot [1:03]
“Did the Japanese come down often to visit your studio, or...?”
D’Astous
“They did come down a couple of times to visit the studio, to see what they would acquire. We presented all the projects we had in development and they were, I believe, very pleased with what they saw.”
Talbot [1:19]
“I’ve heard that there is a big announcement today, I think everybody knows.”
D’Astous
“What do you mean “everybody knows” [laughs].”

Talbot [1:27]
“Well, that’s the rumour, at least.”
D’Astous
“We’ve wanted to announce it for a while now and today, officially, we can say that Eidos Montréal will develop the fourth entry in the Thief franchise which is a huge franchise in Eidos’ history. Many Thief games were recognized as ‘Hall of Fame’ games and ‘Game of the Year’, etc.”

Talbot [1:53]
“Here, we were saddened when the announcement was made that the third game [Thief: Deadly Shadows] was to be the final entry in the franchise. We were asking ourselves why Eidos didn’t pursue this franchise; we were the biggest fans of that game. So, finally, you decided to take this IP – which is a huge IP – and create…”
D’Astous
“Well, it was part of my initial mandate, when Eidos Montréal was started initially; we had two games in mind (obviously Deus Ex being the first). Both games are such classics when it comes to Eidos franchises and finally, the Thief team crossed very important milestones to allow us to announce this fourth title in the franchise.”

Talbot [2:35]
“Since we are on the subject, I’d like to chat a bit about the initial process (without going into too much detail). So, you are given the mandate to create this game but it’s not like you are handed a budget and told to start development – what’s the important step that you have to complete first?”
D’Astous
“Well, we receive an order from Eidos management. So, our first goal is to recruit the initial team – the heart of the project – which is roughly 15 to 20 employees which will remain for the entire project. They must study and create the initial concept – this took a few months. Once this step is complete, Eidos management is more comfortable with their decision making in regards to the project going forward.”
Talbot [3:19]
“Can you give us the name of the person responsible – the Producer?”
D’Astous
“Our producer is Mario Aguera, he comes from Eidos UK and he’s an excellent producer – I’m really glad to have him on our team. He surrounded himself with an incredible team from around the world – not just from Montréal – but from France, England, United-States, Australia and etc. It’s really an international team.”
Talbot [3:48]
“Talk to us a bit about his background – did he work on the previous Thief games?”

D’Astous
“No, unfortunately, Thief, as you know, was developed by Ion Storm and Looking Glass. These two studios were based in the United States (Ion Storm out of Austin Texas and Looking Glass out of Cambridge). The first game came out in 1998 and the latest entry was five years ago, in May of 2004. So, our goal is to bring back this classic on a new level; one that’s never been seen before.”

Talbot [4:20]
“Now, I know that it’s a bit delicate to ask you this, but, it’s my job after all; can you give us any details on the story/when the game takes place – can you tell us a bit about this?”
D’Astous
“I would love to, but it’s something that will eventually be released in another wave of communication. Today, we really just wanted to officially announce the game and announce that Eidos Montréal is no longer a ‘one game’ studio; we are the studio of two incredible franchises. We are following our business plan – we always said that after 3 years, we would eventually have 3 titles in the works with a full QA team and that’s exactly what we are doing. Things are going well for us.”

Talbot [5:00]
“How’s it going with Deus Ex 3, is it advancing well?”
D’Astous
“The team is in full development, we are crossing very important milestones in production and we are very anxious to show the game to everyone, eventually.”
Talbot [5:16]
“Will this be done at the E3 convention?”
D’Astous
“It was a corporative decision and we decided that it was wise to pass E3 2009 since we have other important projects that are nearing completion. Batman [Arkham Asylum] is a highly anticipated title and we also have Mini Ninjas which is developed by our friends in Copenhagen – IO Interactive. Finally, there is Just Cause 2 which is produced by Avalanche. We will be showing these titles at E3 2009. There is a good chance that we will be at E3 2010, however.”

Talbot [5:51]
“Are you still hiring a lot of people at Eidos Montréal?”
D’Astous
“Yes, absolutely, we wanted to let everyone know that since Thief is now in pre-production, we invite anyone that is interested in working on this cult franchise to apply to a position on our site. We are looking for roughly 40 people to start in the next 6 months.”

Talbot [6:33]
“Can you give us a date for when you will be demoing Deus Ex 3?”
D’Astous
“It’s difficult to say at this point since we really want to take our time to nail this title – we only have one chance to properly introduce Deus Ex 3 to the world and the expectations are high. We don’t have any leverage – we must absolutely deliver. We don’t want to add any additional pressure and deadlines. Once we will be ready to announce and demonstrate the game, we will certainly let you know.”
Talbot [7:07]
“The rumours were crazy [over the announcement], we read/heard a bunch of stuff like Lara Croft or the next Hitman... ”
D’Astous
“I did enjoy leaking a few hints like on Facebook when I said the next project would be something that started with the letter ‘T’. Many people responded and believed that Tomb Raider could be it but I can now assure you that the next title is Thief – we are really happy about this and proud to be working on this franchise.

Talbot [7:38]
“Thanks a lot for coming in and do let us know as soon as you have any additional news.”
D’Astous
“I invite everyone to come visit our website to find any information and; we will have a forum dedicated to Thief 4. So, anyone can communicate their expectations with us via this forum. We will also be on Twitter and we now have an online shop on our website where people can buy different things.”

[esme]

I don't suppose they would be interested in remote workers ? .... I'm cheap but I live in the wrong country :(

[René]

Trouble downloading the video :hmm:


YouTube version of the video here (http://www.youtube.com/EidosMTL).

Here ya go ;)

Thank you sir. The formatting went out the window but at least it's readable!

[DarknessFalls]

*Gulp*
D’Astous
“The first game came out in 1998 and the latest entry was five years ago, in May of 2004. So, our goal is to bring back this classic on a new level; one that’s never been seen before.”

[VIKTORIA]

^
I read that as positive because it shows they want to bring something new to the tavern table, and that isn't necessarily anything to worry about.
EM confirm that the dev team "must study and create the initial concept..." and "anyone can communicate their expectations with us via this forum.". This implies that they do not intend to make an 'unrecognisable' game.

So, I think we can read between the lines and expect a little bit of new and a little bit of old. :thumb:

[kin]

So, our goal is to bring back this classic on a new level; one that’s never been seen before
Please don't let it be a multiplayer.:(

[esme]

D’Astous
“No, unfortunately, Thief, as you know, was developed by Ion Storm and Looking Glass. These two studios were based in the United States (Ion Storm out of Austin Texas and Looking Glass out of Cambridge). The first game came out in 1998 and the latest entry was five years ago, in May of 2004. So, our goal is to bring back this classic on a new level; one that’s never been seen before.”

ok I'm hoping this means something along these lines

the first two Thief games were like the early batman movies, pretty good and showing lots of promise for the future

then DS came along and it was like the George Clooney Batman and pretty much killed the franchise, it was an ok movie but it was kiddified and twee and the only thing that really made it Batman was the suit, Batman is supposed to be a vigilante psychopath who stops short of killing people because that makes him no better than the criminals he tracks, Clooney's Batman definitely wasn't that

so what we hope they will produce in Thief 4 will be like Batman Begins or The Dark Knight movies in that it brings back the whole ethos of Thief, less kiddified, more complicated, darker, more backstory, more observation, more stealth, more problem solving in 3D, more problem solving using timing, more consideration of alternatives rather than simply hack and slash your way through, with Garrett as a thief who gets drawn into cataclysmic events as an unforseen result of his actions and not through deliberate choice, a Garrett who is not an assassin, basically with all the important things put back that were lost in DS

ok cr*p analogy I know

what I'm dreading is it meaning something like Assassins Creed meets Super Mario Kart with a Thi4f logo on the bonnet, might be a good fun game but it won't be Thief

[Bono]

less kiddified, more complicated, darker, more backstory, more observation, more stealth, more problem solving in 3D, more problem solving using timing, more consideration of alternatives rather than simply hack and slash your way through, with Garrett as a thief who gets drawn into cataclysmic events as an unforseen result of his actions and not through deliberate choice, a Garrett who is not an assassin

Well. Looking at the direction modern videogames are taking, I won't be surprised if there is not a single aspect you mentioned would be in Thief 4.

[esme]

Well. Looking at the direction modern videogames are taking, I won't be surprised if there is not a single aspect you mentioned would be in Thief 4.me either :(

[VIKTORIA]

I think the opposite - I would be extremely surprised if there is not one single aspect mentioned to be found in T4.
Call me optimistic, but let's just say that Thief is... well, Thief, and I doubt any changes made will be THAT drastic... what we will see is perhaps some different, more complicated moves? perhaps a new main character? etc. But when it comes to the basics, I believe they will all be there. :cool:

[esme]

I think the opposite - I would be extremely surprised if there is not one single aspect mentioned to be found in T4.
Call me optimistic, but let's just say that Thief is... well, Thief, and I doubt any changes made will be THAT drastic... what we will see is perhaps some different, more complicated moves? perhaps a new main character? etc. But when it comes to the basics, I believe they will all be there. :cool:well we thought all the basics would be there with DS ..... however I shall look on the optimistic side

... I've noticed you quite frequently mention the phrase "perhaps a new main character?" in various forms ..... are you privy to knowledge that cannot be published for non disclosure reasons ?

[VIKTORIA]

No, no. I'm merely speculating at what "never seen before" might suggest. :)

[esme]

3d spectacles perhaps so you really feel the immersion ..... and the blinding headaches after an hour or so :D

[VIKTORIA]

Haha, I hope that never happens. :D

[esme]

A usb powered hat that smacks you over the head every time you get BJ'd

a set of accessories you plug into USB to select items and weapons

a replacement eye with an attachment that gouges out .... yuck .... too far :nut:

[VIKTORIA]

Are you sure you are on the right forum? :eek:

:D

[Bono]

Call me optimistic, but let's just say that Thief is... well, Thief

No you're wrong. Thief is Thiaf now. That pretty much sums it up.

[esme]

Are you sure you are on the right forum? :eek:

:Djust thinking of things that have never been seen before in a video game ;)

[VIKTORIA]

No you're wrong. Thief is Thiaf now. That pretty much sums it up.

Pardon me sir, but it is you who are wrong. Thiaf is just a working title. :p

[van_HellSing]

So apparently D'Astous and some other EM people are going to E3.

I say they should stay and WORK, damnit, so maybe, just maybe they actually have something to show next year.

[Master Taffer]

So apparently D'Astous and some other EM people are going to E3.

I say they should stay and WORK, damnit, so maybe, just maybe they actually have something to show next year.

They have another game they are currently working on, you know. And their human beings, not your slaves. Whipping them and demanding results ain't going to do much.

[van_HellSing]

Yes, another game which they aren't showing either, two years after the announcement.

[Master Taffer]

Yes, another game which they aren't showing either, two years after the announcement.

They'll show it when they're ready. All you can do is either be patient and deal, or whine. One's more constructive, I'll let you guess which one.

[van_HellSing]

Oh, yeah, "when it's done". Deus Ex Forever.

[Master Taffer]

That wasn't the constructive option.

[van_HellSing]

None of the options we have are constructive. Some are just better informed.

[VIKTORIA]

They'll show it when they're ready. All you can do is either be patient and deal, or whine. One's more constructive, I'll let you guess which one.

QFT. :thumb:

[Master Taffer]

Thief 4 was only announced 19 or 20 days ago and you're already demanding new things. Take a chill pill and mellow out before you have a stroke.

[Necros]

ok cr*p analogy I know
Yes, it is, DS wasn't nearly as bad as that Batman movie.

Master Taffer, just ignore van_HellSing, you can't reason with him. And I agree with you, if they need more time to make sure what we'll see will be great, then they should take all the time they need. Fans/gamers won't be satisfied no matter what they do. If they show the game too early, and people don't like some things that will most likely change anyway, they cry about it. If they stay silent and work their asses off to impress people a bit later, there will also be crybabies demanding new stuff every day.

I just hope René isn't tired of all the BS that's going on around here lately and he finds the constructive posts.

[van_HellSing]

Thief 4 was only announced 19 or 20 days ago and you're already demanding new things. Take a chill pill and mellow out before you have a stroke.

What "new" things, we haven't gotten anything yet. Compare how Deadly Shadows was announced, with a nice trailer from Dan Thron & co. Heck, even Deus Ex Forever was announced with a teaser that provided months of speculation and analysis.

The "Thi4f" announcement is a just a poor joke at our expense.

[Master Taffer]

Yes, it is, DS wasn't nearly as bad as that Batman movie.

Master Taffer, just ignore van_HellSing, you can't reason with him. And I agree with you, if they need more time to make sure what we'll see will be great, then they should take all the time they need. Fans/gamers won't be satisfied no matter what they do. If they show the game too early, and people don't like some things that will most likely change anyway, they cry about it. If they stay silent and work their asses off to impress people a bit later, there will also be crybabies demanding new stuff every day.

I just hope René isn't tired of all the BS that's going on around here lately and he finds the constructive posts.

I'm reminded of what Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw said during his Silent Hill Homecoming review: "Fans are clinging, complaining ******** who will never, ever be grateful for any concession you make. The momoent you shut out their shrill, trebulous voices the happier you'll be for it."

What "new" things, we haven't gotten anything yet. Compare how Deadly Shadows was announced, with a nice trailer from Dan Thron & co. Heck, even Deus Ex Forever was announced with a teaser that provided months of speculation and analysis.

The "Thi4f" announcement is a just a poor joke at our expense.

Well, you better continue your irrelevant pissing and complaining so they can continue to ignore you.

[DarknessFalls]

I'm reminded of what Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw said during his Silent Hill Homecoming review: "Fans are clinging, complaining ******** who will never, ever be grateful for any concession you make. The momoent you shut out their shrill, trebulous voices the happier you'll be for it."

I heard that game was pretty bad, so I don't give "Yahtzee" much creedence.

I'm reminded of what Jeff Haynes said during his Silent Hill Homecoming review: "Unfortunately for the series, the latest installment... manages to drain the emotional and psychological elements from the game. ...The overall experience just isn't scary, which is a major letdown for a title with such a great horror pedigree... The placement of jump moments are extremely predictable ... Even worse are the sections where the title continually triggers a number of respawning monsters until you move to a certain portion of the environment and trigger a cutscene... On top of this, it's blatantly obvious that the designers attempted to ratchet up the scares by making it impossible to see where you're going with a flashlight that barely illuminates anything."

Fan or not a fan, that game doesn't sound too impressive. And if "Yahtzee" was somehow impressed by SH:Homecoming despite these things, I'll be sure to steer away from his reviews, in general.

We could all be quiet and wait 3 or 4 years hoping the developers deliver a Th4f that's better than T2 and satiates our Thief gameplay desires. But if it fails, fans will be disappointed, and new players will be disappointed when they go back and play T1/T2 and realize T1/T2 are better than Th4f. The Th4f devs can certainly go into a box and deliver whatever they want to us; they don't have to read these forums -- and based on "Yahtzee" they will apparently be happier. But they'll be missing out on some good thoughts and ideas... and they risk alienating fans of the series while also disappointing newcomers who play T2 and see a game that came out 10 years earlier is better.

[Master Taffer]

Fan or not a fan, that game doesn't sound too impressive. And if "Yahtzee" was somehow impressed by SH:Homecoming despite these things, I'll be sure to steer away from his reviews, in general.

I recommend you go check out his reviews on the Escapist before you talk out your ass next time, because his specialty is tearing games completely apart and pissing on the remnents.

[Kayjin]

I'm reminded of what Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw said during his Silent Hill Homecoming review: "Fans are clinging, complaining ******** who will never, ever be grateful for any concession you make. The momoent you shut out their shrill, trebulous voices the happier you'll be for it."

Actually doesn't he just say that after every review now before advertising his T-shirts? Regardless he gives the Thief series the great review it deserves at one point. And actually semi-following what's been said recently, there's no point in complaining about a game that was just barely announced. They announced it early enough we can actually give them feedback that just might influence development, sounds good enough to me.

[Master Taffer]

Actually doesn't he just say that after every review now before advertising his T-shirts? Regardless he gives the Thief series the great review it deserves at one point. And actually semi-following what's been said recently, there's no point in complaining about a game that was just barely announced. They announced it early enough we can actually give them feedback that just might influence development, sounds good enough to me.

It originated in his SIlent Hill Homecoming review and has since become his T-shirt advertisement.

[GmanPro]

I understand the sentiment, but he also goes out of his way when reviewing the Thief series to praise Thief 2 because LGS listened to the fans and gave them more of what they wanted etc.

[Master Taffer]

Yes, but he doesn't praise the fans, just the developer for actually listening instead of keeping their head up their ass. Fans remain whining, clingy jerkoffs.

[GmanPro]

Not all fans.

So the lesson here is, the devs should listen to the fans and not keep their heads up their asses. Fair enough.

[Master Taffer]

Not all fans.

So the lesson here is, the devs should listen to the fans and not keep their heads up their asses. Fair enough.

Developers listening to RATIONAL fans seems like the better lesson here. I'll leave it up to the developer to decide what constitutes a "rational fan," as nobody around here will be able to reach an agreement on that definition.

[GmanPro]

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree ...

[DarknessFalls]

Yes, but he doesn't praise the fans, just the developer for actually listening instead of keeping their head up their ass. Fans remain whining, clingy jerkoffs.
Are you a Thief fan? Just curious what your take is on Thief.

I recommend you go check out his reviews on the Escapist ... his specialty is tearing games completely apart and pissing on the remnents.
Nah, I don't need to waste my time. Doesn't interest me in the slightest. I'll take your word for it that he didn't like SH: Homecoming and he doesn't like fans. On second thought, I'll probably take a look since I'm curious to see how this all comes together (SH: Homecoming not being good; fans being whiny; devs should do their own thing).

[VIKTORIA]

I think this interview hasn't been posted, so here it is:


Thief 4 fans to be "happily impressed" News
News by Robert Purchese. 12 May, 2009

Eidos Montreal boss Stéphane D'Astous reckons we'll be "very happily surprised and impressed" with Thief 4, which was officially announced yesterday.

"People should know that Thief is the grandfather of the stealth genre, which was a new type of gameplay back in 1998, and it's important for people to know that this game really created that. It shook the ground a decade ago, and we're trying our best to bring it to market and break new ground," D'Astous told IncGamers.

"The setting, the character, the story, the features - anything related to the actual content of the game, we cannot discuss for now. What I can say is that people are going to be very happily surprised and impressed. I think that we've put our finger on a number of things. Innovation and originality will be important, and I think it's going to serve this great franchise very well."

The Eidos Montreal team has finished the conceptual phase of development with a core team of 20. The next step will be hiring around 40 others as the project moves into pre-production. Incidentally, none of that number includes former Looking Glass Studios staff who responsible for the original Thief games, "But we've done our homework," added D'Astous.

"We went through this a couple of years ago when we launched the Deus Ex 3 project, so we're pretty much in constant contact with a couple of people. We have people that have worked on the Rainbow Six series, on Prince of Persia, on the Splinter Cell games - the list is very long and we'll soon release the pedigree of the team, and you'll notice that these guys have a lot of credentials," he said.

Of chief importance will be the vocal communities of both Thief and Deus Ex. D'Astous said something the fans clearly want are the original Thief voice actors to return, "And this is obviously something that we'll consider very seriously."

"The communities of these two projects are so vocal, so protective of what they want, and one thing is for sure - they're very active!" explained D'Astous.

"We're keeping our ear very close to the ground. As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys, 'I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,' because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief.

"Our main goal is that the essence and the spirit of these two franchises are as good now as ever before," he added. "Now we need to bring them to the highest level of technology, the highest level of design - the characters are very important, the story is important; we recognise all that, and a good game remains a good game if it's made accordingly."

More information will be released towards the end of the year. Until then, fans can pledge their support by buying themed merchandise for either Thief 4 or Deus Ex from a Virtual Boutique, which should go live today.

Dates and platforms for Thief 4 are yet to be confirmed.


Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/thief-4-fans-to-be-very-happily-impressed

[Gillie]

That is encouraging and very Interesting thanks for posting it. :)

[van_HellSing]

Repost is repost repost.

[Master Taffer]

Gracias for that that interview, Vikky. I hadn't seen it yet.

Are you a Thief fan? Just curious what your take is on Thief.

I've been playing the series since it was released in 1998. And while I've always loved Thief's gameplay and atmosphere, I've never considered it the flawless gem most people in the fanbase think it is. Sure it was innovative on it's release, but it hasn't done much to improve itself over the years and it has started to show rust now more than ever.

Though these days, I consider myself a franchise "enthusiest," as I've gotten very tired of fanbases for many genres. They act like irrational, whining 4 year olds who fear the slightest change most of the time and I don't want anything to do with people like that.

[VIKTORIA]

Repost is repost repost.
I do apologise. :o

Gracias for that that interview, Vikky. I hadn't seen it yet.

You are most welcome, good sir. :)

[van_HellSing]

I do apologise. :o

[Darth Vader]Apology accepted.[/Darth Vader]

It wouldn't have been so bad if the interview wasn't posted earlier by yourself. Kind of shows how much you pay attention to this community, really.

[VIKTORIA]

It wouldn't have been so bad if the interview wasn't posted earlier by yourself. Kind of shows how much you pay attention to this community, really.

What an unpleasant and very rude response. :eek:

For your information, I have never been the original poster of any interview, I only quoted other member's posts, in order to highlight the important points for me and to invite further discussion.
Furthermore, the most recent article I posted is not exactly the same as the previous ones posted by yourself and other members, the authors/magazine are also different. Although the interviews posted so far may contain similar quotes, they also contain different quotes, as does mine! This kind of shows how much you pay attention, really.
Go read. Then perhaps you will be gentleman enough to apologise to me. Thanks.
Just like everyone else here, I am merely trying to share information - every tiny bit can be useful to those who wish to read for further hints and clues.

Also, for the record, even if I had made an error in double-posting an exact same interview, so what? That doesn't justify your obnoxious response. As I have to perform duties on this forum as well as find the time to casually browse and absorb new information and fans' opinions etc, I'm entitled to an occasion of human error ,or lapse of memory, without having to read childish comments such as yours.

I hope I won't witness this kind of manfool behaviour from you again...ugh, it makes my leaves wilt. :(

[van_HellSing]

Will reply tomorrow extensively. Too tired right now.

[VIKTORIA]

Will reply tomorrow extensively. Too tired right now.
You can reply via PM then, irrelevant negativity stays off this forum please. Thanks.

[theBlackman]

Though these days, I consider myself a franchise "enthusiest," as I've gotten very tired of fanbases for many genres. They act like irrational, whining 4 year olds who fear the slightest change most of the time and I don't want anything to do with people like that.

In that case, what are you doing here?

It's actually pretty simple. IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. And THIEF for all its "age" AIN'T BROKE. The FMs prove that. Sure, some new equipment has been added and some new "model" (Grapnel, boxes, furniture, trees etc.) but the game play in the FMs has stayed THIEF. Not some hyped up NEW permutation to please the gamers who don't get it and want the instant mindless gratification in the current crop of crap games with a lot of "If it moves...KILL IT!"

[Master Taffer]

In that case, what are you doing here?

Some rule against me posting here if I don't label myself "Fan" because I consider the term tainted? I don't see it anywhere in the guidelines, so how about you drop that question and we can move on to more constructive things, alright?

[theBlackman]

In that case, what are you doing here?

It's actually pretty simple. IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. And THIEF for all its "age" AIN'T BROKE. The FMs prove that. Sure, some new equipment has been added and some new "model" (Grapnel, boxes, furniture, trees etc.) but the game play in the FMs has stayed THIEF. Not some hyped up NEW permutation to please the gamers who don't get it and want the instant mindless gratification in the current crop of crap games with a lot of "If it moves...KILL IT!"

Get the message?

[Master Taffer]

Get the message?

Yeah, I read it. Drop it and move on.

[BrokenArts]

Nice you telling a moderator to drop it and move on, thats rich. Should be the other way around.

[theBlackman]

Remember BA (got a laugh out of that one), I'm not a MOD when I offer an opinion. And in this case, it is an opinion, with as much or little value as any other.

I do my MOD stuff with PM and Email. :lol:

[The Mental Age]

:( Arguing makes me sad.


All I hope is that this game is better than TDS... I never expected another Thief game to come out, so I'm pretty darn excited.

[esme]

all this talk of whiny fans, how do we interpret this comment from such and so an interview, will they/won't they actually take the comments from here on board are a bit of a waste

I'm not saying don't post them I am saying they aren't helpful, they won't affect the game development at all

let me put it this way

Thief 4 will initially be purchased by only a few of the fan base who will then tell everyone else what it's like, ok this will be a large number but it won't be a feeding frenzy and I doubt it will cover the development costs

if the fan base don't like what they are hearing from the ones who have the game they aren't going to rush out and buy it themselves until maybe when it hits the bargain bins, we won't buy it just because it has the name, if it doesn't play the way we want, we won't buy it we'll stick with our TMA/TDP/TDS fan missions and wait for things like The Dark Mod and make our own universe that behaves exactly how we want

so it's really in Eidos-Montreal's interest to take a lot of notice of the comments on this board, otherwise they will be wasting their time developing the game in the first place, because they won't get the sales if we don't like the product, and they know that ... or if they didn't, they do now

we have an opportunity here to influence the development of the game that I don't remember being presented for any other game in the past

I know you can't please everyone and reconciling the hard core TDP/TMA camp with the equally hard core TDS camp may prove impossible

but we might be able to find enough common ground to enable Eidos-Montreal to make a game that we as fans think is worthy of the name "Thief"

so lets make some good suggestions, comments, wishes, wants, likes and dislikes and try to hold back on the rhetoric when someone posts an opposing view as that just tends to obscure the issue, clarify your points by all means but there's no need to get angry about it as the devs will tend to switch off reading page after page of "tis/tisn't/lame/troll.." dialogue and the point you are making will get lost in the noise

one thing I would like from Eidos-Montreal is some feedback so we know what sort of things they are taking away from this board now, I mean if we've beaten them into submission on one issue then there's no need for us to keep on beating them on that same issue is there

so René if you are reading this, any chance of some feedback at some point ?

[VIKTORIA]

Good and fair comments there, Esme. :thumb:

Don't worry, as soon as Rene gets the go-ahead, some feedback will be forthcoming, I'm sure. :)

[Vladimyre]

esme's whole post is like wow she really hit it on the head. I also agree that It would definitely suck to have the boards turn into a certain MMO's board ;) as far as sniping and skullduggery :)

V

[DoomyDoomyDoomDoom]

If they are getting ideas from this board I'd like to know what they liked.

First and foremost, I think a lot of people are interested in knowing what platforms it will be on and whether or not it will be ported to this or that.

[kin]

one thing I would like from Eidos-Montreal is some feedback so we know what sort of things they are taking away from this board now, I mean if we've beaten them into submission on one issue then there's no need for us to keep on beating them on that same issue is there

so René if you are reading this, any chance of some feedback at some point ?

It would be nice if we had some info even if it is not too revealing.

[kin]

There is nothing new about the game but here's the latest news
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/en/news.html_eidos-montreal-volunteer-day-means-action-in-two-ville-marie-schools.html

[esme]

René - any sign that feedback may be forthcoming soon ? the board is starting to repeat itself and go off on tangents a lot, without feedback I don't think any better suggestions than the ones already posted will be made

[VIKTORIA]

I think it is far too early to expect any details on T4 at present, or feedback regarding suggestions.
We don't mind you guys discussing all sorts of thiefy things in the meantime, so please do carry on. :thumb:

[kin]

It is going to get boring without feedback. The community ideas are already impregnated.

[AbysmalGale]

We want NEWS :D

[esme]

I think it is far too early to expect any details on T4 at present, or feedback regarding suggestions.
We don't mind you guys discussing all sorts of thiefy things in the meantime, so please do carry on. :thumb:sorry to harp on but we have other forums for discussing thief related things such as fan missions, meet ups, locations, artwork, styles of play or the original games

I was given to understand that this forum was to allow Eidos-Montreal to garner suggestions from the fan base with a view to fine tuning the end product for those same fans and thereby increase sales, also to discuss the game in development generally with those fans

discussing other thief related things which do not directly pertain to the development of Thief 4 on this forum only serve to bury and obscure the suggestions already made for Thief 4

I realise they can't be too specific as it's very early days yet but some idea of what things are being picked up on from this board by the people making the game would serve to reassure us that we aren't wasting our time for one thing and give us an opportunity to lobby for features which may have been dropped for some reason or even express support for the dropping of specific features

so my apologies for going on about this, but feedback is a necessary part of the process and even at this early stage it should be possible to tell us what, if anything, has been taken from these boards for discussion at E-M even if it's not possible to tell us what, if any, ideas from here will make it into the game

[VIKTORIA]

I understand, no need to apologise. It's just that currently EM are still recruiting and building up the dev team. I think once this has been completed, we should expect some initial feedback at that point. But, having said that, I'm sure Rene will bring us further news/information as soon as he can, whenever it may be. I'm waiting for more news as much as you all are. :)

Don't worry about your suggestions becoming buried under the activity on this forum, I created Keepers' Diary thread specifically to facilitate fast, easy reference to all main discussion.

[René]

Hi all, sorry for my absense. Indeed it's true there is nothing to report right now, I'm afraid to say. However I have been lurking both here and at TTLG and compiling feedback as well as talking to a few people one-on-one who have sent PMs. A lot of the design ideas, likes/dislikes, etc. have been forwarded to the dev team for their review. Sorry I can't confirm or deny anything and I understand a lack of info doesn't help a forum but that's where we are right now.

Feel free to send me a PM any time!

[esme]

Thanks for that René, at least we know something is happening even if we don't know what

[DarknessFalls]

Thanks Rene. I think one of the first steps will be for us to know if this is set in the old Thief days, or is it present day. So we know if we should be talking about water arrows and torches, or 9mm guns and baggy jeans :) Hopefully not the latter, as I might have to un-register myself from this site :) , but ISA and Eidos comments from years past have me worried it might go this route.

Based on the vibe of this forum site, I have a feeling EM wants to keep it in the medieval/mansion/castle/crypt days, so I'm crossing my fingers.

Good luck with the project! And have fun!

[jtr7]

EM's Manager, Stephane D'Astous, said the devs they have are fans of Thief, this is a dream job for them, and they are looking at TDP.

Might mean nothing, could mean everything.

[AbysmalGale]

EM's Manager, Stephane D'Astous, said the devs they have are fans of Thief, this is a dream job for them, and they are looking at TDP.

Might mean nothing, could mean everything.

I say it could mean a LOT! Where did you read this? Sounds good. BUT I hope they are looking at both TDP and TMA, not only the first one, as TMA is the most popular game of the series according to several polls.

And I hope they don't look too much at TDS except for certain missions like Widow Moira etc. ;)

[jtr7]

TDP's a good start for getting back to the roots, but they know we cite Life of the Party quite a bit, too.

While I do some digging... At about the 1-minute mark:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=95888082040&oid=81350002691

[DarknessFalls]

I'd prefer TMA over TDS also. Hope they realize they don't like so many haunts and go the TMA route.

[AbysmalGale]

TDP's a good start for getting back to the roots, but they know we cite Life of the Party quite a bit, too.


Yes I agree on that. And it's certainly a thousand times better than looking a lot at TDS or at the old concept for T4 (modern setting). I just deeply hope that they take TMA in heavy consideration as well, or actually that they focus even a bit more on TMA than TDP.

[esme]

TDP's a good start for getting back to the roots, but they know we cite Life of the Party quite a bit, too.

While I do some digging... At about the 1-minute mark:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=95888082040&oid=81350002691nice clip from TDP "assassins" there, one of my favourites from TDP :D

hands up everyone who managed to clean out the shop before going after the hitmen :D (sticks hand up)

[jtr7]

(Hand up!) I never know what kind of fun I'm gonna have when I get to Ramirez's, and since I'm a thief, Farkus won't mind if I loot his shop. It's probably why he was buried at Ft. Ironwood--no evidence of criminal business activities.


As for news, I'm surprised no unofficial Thief 4 talk leaked out during E3. I know they didn't have anything to say about it, and they weren't there to say anything about it, but EM delegates at E3 should've gotten a mention outside of Twitter.

[TheMasterBuilder]

Eh, I'm optimistic about Thi4f.

Does anyone remember Fallout3? I ignored the nay sayers on the boards, staying optimistic. Ugh, that was the biggest disappointment as far as games go i've had in my life though. I checked the forums for that thing every day that i was on my computer. The devs kept telling us that they're gonna respect the franchise and all that but they butchered it and all their reassurances were lies.

So i s'pose i'll keep up on this and stay cheery 'til release day.... again

[esme]

actually one thing about the assassins clip has been bothering me and I just realised what it was

whoever is playing is just using the keyboard to control Garrett's movement, as he turns there's no looking up or down just a smooth rotation

I found that type of playing to be extremely counterintuitive, I use the mouse to turn and control where I'm looking and then it's just forward or back, I don't even think about it it's like it's synchronised with my eyes

I find turning is just sooooo sloooooow using the keypad and lining up on an object or jump point or even a door can be painful

if that's footage from one of the devs then please try using the mouse

[jtr7]

Eh, I'm optimistic about Thi4f.

Does anyone remember Fallout3? I ignored the nay sayers on the boards, staying optimistic. Ugh, that was the biggest disappointment as far as games go i've had in my life though. I checked the forums for that thing every day that i was on my computer. The devs kept telling us that they're gonna respect the franchise and all that but they butchered it and all their reassurances were lies.

So i s'pose i'll keep up on this and stay cheery 'til release day.... again

Like I've said, no amount of positive thinking will affect the game, but it will make you less stressed.:flowers:

[DarknessFalls]

actually one thing about the assassins clip has been bothering me and I just realised what it was

whoever is playing is just using the keyboard to control Garrett's movement, as he turns there's no looking up or down just a smooth rotation

I found that type of playing to be extremely counterintuitive, I use the mouse to turn and control where I'm looking and then it's just forward or back, I don't even think about it it's like it's synchronised with my eyes

I find turning is just sooooo sloooooow using the keypad and lining up on an object or jump point or even a door can be painful

if that's footage from one of the devs then please try using the mouse
Wow, I've seen this option in games, but I didn't know anyone actually played FPS games like this. Seems like it'd be tough

[Hypevosa]

Yeah, never heard of anyone actually using the keys to turn.... mouse feels alot more natural. I think it's there for people who don't have mice... you can operate a computer without them, it's just a bit more difficult. Strafing works alot better for side to site buttons to me. I remember when I played T1 with a laptop I would cross my arms so I could use the arrow keys because I was young and hadn't learned about WASD configuration yet...

[esme]

Yeah, never heard of anyone actually using the keys to turn.... mouse feels alot more natural. I think it's there for people who don't have mice... you can operate a computer without them, it's just a bit more difficult. Strafing works alot better for side to site buttons to me. I remember when I played T1 with a laptop I would cross my arms so I could use the arrow keys because I was young and hadn't learned about WASD configuration yet...

I remap everything to the numeric keypad and mouse, I basically have a single keyboard layout that I use for all games, there are slight differences but after 5-10 minutes I'm not aware of them any more

[kin]

I wonder if this recruitment in EM will ever end. I see in the job openings there is no change since thief announcement.

[VIKTORIA]

I wonder if this recruitment in EM will ever end. I see in the job openings there is no change since thief announcement.

I should imagine certain positions will remain open for a while, even if they have been filled. Possibly for the purpose of creating a bank of "reserve" employees, just in case of sickness or accident, or if the workload increases etc.. :)

[René]

I wonder if this recruitment in EM will ever end.

Probably not. It's pretty rare that a studio will have a complete hiring freeze since there's generally always a need for one position or another, and people can come and go. But the Thief 4 team is getting bigger almost every week!

[jtr7]

Glad to hear it! When will the core 20 move over from Deus Ex to Thief, or did I horribly misunderstand that concept?

[kin]

But the Thief 4 team is getting bigger almost every week!
That means the project is developing fast enough to have some news by the end of the summer?:D maybe? Or near the end of this year:hmm:?

[René]

Glad to hear it! When will the core 20 move over from Deus Ex to Thief, or did I horribly misunderstand that concept?

Hmm, it might be a misunderstanding since each team is working fairly independently. I'm not aware of any people crossing over.

That means the project is developing fast enough to have some news by the end of the summer?:D maybe? Or near the end of this year:hmm:?

We'll see. We'll see.

[jtr7]

Ah yes. I'm wondering where I got the idea of the Deus Ex team connected to this?
In the world of gaming there are mainly three phases – the concept, pre-production, and production – and right now we've reached our goals with the conceptual base, the story. Obviously, the tough part is still to come, so the team will be ramping up, which is good news because even with the hard times in the financial world, videogames still have bright skies – at least in Montreal! So we'll be hiring approximately 40 people in the next six months: artists, programmers, designers, all the works. They'll be working on the next phase, which will be pre-production, so it's too early right now to mention any kind of a release window or SKUs that we'll be working on. The important thing is that we have a great team, a core team of maybe 20 people, and we're going to the next stage.

[Scopeh]

IF Eidos stay true to the original PC games, I believe we will have a hit on our hands.

Dumbing it down, and making it more accessible to the casual gamer who just wants 10 minutes of action and explosions now and again, will doom thief 4 to be another generic and unsucessful clone of the many action games available on consoles right now which are greatfully forgotten after 5 minutes.

Keep it like the original games, have a niche in the market by basing the game off thrilling edge of your seat stealth, where caution and patience are rewarded and you WILL have a hit. Because it will be unlike ANY of the current gen stealth games available right now.

Ubisoft pretty much proved that changing the formula of a successfull AAA franchise CAN KILL IT. Splinter-Cell; at one point continued on the stealth legacy of thief using dynamic shadows to hide in, allowing you to be a ghost hiding only inches away from heavilly armored high firepower enemies. It was as thrilling to play as the original thief games.
Then they decided to change this dramatically by basically throwing out the original concept and replacing it with some hitman meets bourne fugitive game in broad daylight with kung fu and explosions, despite warning from fans that thier vision was taking the game down the pan with the previous game that started to eliminate shadows in favour of action.

THE BACKLASH WAS SO GREAT, that Ubi basically had to scrap the game (even though they had a working game engine and story), and started over from scratch - this time having the decency to actually listen to fans and take the game back to its roots. This may have put the nail in the coffin for splinter-cell, and I dont think its ever going to recover as its now become a SC community joke being in development for near 3 years with new news of development only popping up recently.

What was done by ubisoft with the above example was equivalent to taking a game like.... Gran Turismo, ripping out the car racing, then replacing the cars with horses and jockeys. Then selling it under the Gran Turismo 6 name even though it is clearly a completely different game.

Thier attitude of "Fans don't know what they want, marketing executives looking for the next pay-cheque to fund another holiday retreat in the bahamas DO", doomed all the hard work they had done to make SC sucessfull.
They were basically milking the cash cow, as they thought that no matter what crap they dished out, the consumers would eat it because it was tied to a successfull BRAND NAME.

I have gone off on a bit of a rant, but my point is that people buy the franchises they are familiar with so that they can experience the same game - but improved and expanded. Not overhauled. It WOULD win new fans as there is nothing out there to compete with it right now, it would simply bring it to the masses of younger gen gamers who have never played a game like it - It would be innovative and refreshing to them.

Please bare this in mind dev's if you truely are reading these, as your decisions could also put a nail in garret's coffin and kill off an awesome gaming experience.

/Rant

[VIKTORIA]

IF Eidos stay true to the original PC games, I believe we will have a hit on our hands.

I agree. If EM play their glyphs right, there is massive potential for T4 to be winner of several GOTY Awards, imo. :cool:

[huzi73]

I stumbled across this the other day

http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/183/

Stéphane D'Astous:
" right now we've reached our goals with the conceptual base, the story. "

Does this mean the story IS set in stone?

IF so, then, The Character, setting (The CITY), and the general story is decided upon and we cant do squat about anything to change that?

NOTE: This is just my assumption, what do you think???

Anyway, What I'd like to know, as the title says,(Im NOT demanding, just curious....)
Is what has been decided/agreed upon by EM?

Any small thing will do...

Character: (will Garrett stay?)
Setting: (Modern or Steampunk/medievil?)
Location (the CITY/other?)
ETC....

Have these things been decided?

or can our countless arguements and posts still affect the outcome of the above?

(Im not trying to force out info or be impatient, just wondering....)

UPDATE

http://www.incgamers.com/News/16334/Thief4ReturningVoiceActorsImportant

This probably confirms Garrett WIll return.

YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully Benny too!!!

[tarhiel]

Well, I think EM will listen to fans, at least to people in this forum (since it is official forum), so if fans would omce up with something interesting, they will listen to us - at least I hope so.

[CaptainObvious]

Well returning voiceactors don't mean that much, they could play different roles, most them them had more than one role in the other games. But at least it's an indication that we won't have to play this guy:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/Cmd598/Garrettsketchthief4concya0.jpg

[René]

My lips are sealed!

[Arkanis]

I myself am pretty worried the "Halo Kiddie" group is going to end up influencing this game for the most part. Like how it's been covered plenty of times before, Thief, and stealth games in general are slow-paced. They're about precision, timing, and doing things well. I'm not going to pretend like I don't like to play games that are brute force and about destruction (Duke Nukem 3D, one of the best games EVER!), but Thief is not that kind of game.

Both making it more of an assassin game, and having to dumb it down again like T3 for the XBox are going to make or break this, atleast for me. I didn't mind Thief3, but it was a far cry from what it could have been. I especially hated the "Don't kill any non-combatants" part of Expert difficulty. Hi, what's this? Why did that change from the first two? Oh yeah, this is on the XBox too, and the 12 year olds just want to shoot people in the face and win.

Also, for any developers, please be careful with what your "new and exciting" changes are. More action =/= Good. Things like tricks and puzzles from the first games were great. I guess I could sum this up pretty easily though:

Things that would work:
- Back to more puzzles and secrets
- Items being more expensive after missions (In T3, you had so much money and everything was so cheap)
- Rope Arrows, please god
- More effective guards. One thing I always found odd was guards were always easy to lose, or just outrun unless they were archers. Guards should have some tricks too! Whistles for calling other guards immediately, possibly guard dogs, I'm sure you guys can think of other cool ideas
- We need swimming back!

Things that might work if done right:
- The girl. We all know who I mean
- Tagteam missions with her, this could theoretically work, but it couldn't be every mission, and she would need to be like an actual thief. Not someone who appears in pre-determined places and opens a door or something. Commanding her via whistles, notes, preplanning, etc. Please no radios
- Good ol burglarizing of an open world. The problem with T3 was there were so few places to go. Ideally we'd have more city immersion with houses to burglarize (You're inside, gotta be stealth), and public places like taverns, or the bear pits, where you can freely move among a crowd, pickpocket, and just enjoy the area.
- Factions. The factions in T3 were very poorly implemented. Do some chores, now you're friendly. Wait, the Hammerites want you dead, hardcore. The Pagans, I could see becoming neutral, but by no means super friendly. Don't forget how much trouble you've caused these guys over the years. The only factions we should be able to become friendly with are ones that we haven't burglarized/murdered/generally been a problem for.

Things that need to go, or never come:
- Loot glint, and percentages shown, that was just awful
- Direct combat. Some missions like the Bonehoard and Cathedral missions were good, it spiced it up, but direct fighting should never be the intention for most enemies. I'm looking at those statues in T3, should not have been able to destroy them
- "Do not kill any non-combatants" on expert. Bring back "Do not kill any humans"
- Levelling up, Garret using magic, or getting "Weapon upgrades"
- Fast-paced gameplay. The only fast pace you should have is if you're running your ass from a bunch of guards and you're out of tricks to get them away from you.

[jtr7]

I especially hated the "Don't kill any non-combatants" part of Expert difficulty. Hi, what's this? Why did that change from the first two? Oh yeah, this is on the XBox too, and the 12 year olds just want to shoot people in the face and win.

Is there a typo in there? :p

Not killing non-combatants was in the first two games. :thumb:




I generally agree with your post.:)

[kaekaelyn]

I think he means is that in TDS on Expert difficulty all it said was "don't kill any non-combatants" rather than going so far as to say "don't kill anyone" on Expert, like in the first two installments.

[Arkanis]

I think he means is that in TDS on Expert difficulty all it said was "don't kill any non-combatants" rather than going so far as to say "don't kill anyone" on Expert, like in the first two installments.

Indeed. I played T3 like it was "No kills period" and limited myself to blackjacking, sneaking, and tricks (Flashbomb, moss arrow, etc) for enemies. It didn't seem right to jab a sharp piece of metal down someone's throat in Thief, still.

[Hypevosa]

I had the same sentiments, I wanted to play on expert difficulty, so I imposed the old rule of not killing any humans on myself. Though it did count my destroying undead as kills for some reason >_> they're already dead, shouldn't it be called something different like "Undead smote"?

[jtr7]

AH! Thanks.

[huzi73]

Please bear in mind, in TDP, on expert, you coule kill in the lost city, there were no restrictions against killing in that level, as garrett didnt expect human foes to begin with. So dear devs, if garrett is going out of human territory/civilisation/the city, and stumbles across HOSTILE humans, i dont see why he should not be allowed to pwn them. The main reason he stayed away from killing in the first 2 games, was because of his reputation(as a master thief, NOT a murderer). So in outlying/rural/surreal areas, where no law prevails, frankly, i doubt garrett gives a damn.

[jtr7]

You mean, you doubt your version of Garrett gives a damn, canon aside. When going out of The City, he's usually allowed to kill non-humans, but rarely humans, even if they are hostile. Garrett is never forced to fight or kill a human, except in a clear case of caving in to non-Thief players. Wanton killing of humans is against his code and it's against Thief--the player's desires are a separate matter getting mingled in like oil to water. It would be more accurate if the wanted posters included the word "MURDERER!" on them and saving the world meant a typical boss fight instead of a hands-off approach.

[huzi73]

I hear you,@ jtr but what im saying, is that TDP (im not too sure of TMA..) did not restrict Garrett from killing in ancient ruins/areas where Garrett didnt suspect humans to be.In this case, the lost city (while it was still "lost" as such).Thats all im sayin..

[jtr7]

That statement's fine, but you didn't include the other parts you said. The devs knew what AIs were in the mission so they could match the objectives to them. Since it's a series of puzzles, each mission has rules for the collection of puzzles to be found within, wrapped in fiction and character to give it life and purpose. If the new game doesn't depart from the old rules, then expect no killing of humans, restricted killing of humans, or no humans in the mission to necessitate the restriction.

[catelee2u]

That's exactly what I'm scared of. Too much innovation.....generally bad. I like change if it is good change but so much of it is rubbish.
Concentate on pc platform with a fantastic and complex control system. Keep the dark atmosphere and varied groups.
Nifty graphics and physics are good but they really aren't the be all and end all and much more important are the story, gameplay and atmosphere.
I seriously LOVE this series and I wish everyone making 4 all the best....don't take any **** off management about release dates or demographics. It's art....get them told. They will make more money long term this way. Look at Blizzard.....they always complete polished games (fingers crossed Diablo3) and have massive fanbase here and especially in Korea.
I have already put Thief 4 on pre-order and am looking forward to playing all my varied styles for each level.
The never kill way only blackjack, the never be seen way, the get 100 percent of the loot way amongst others. The only way to play thief is in the dark and alone.

[Necros]

Could someone make a summary of this article in English?
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files//images/download/coverflow/convergencemag.pdf
I doubt there's much new information in this but every small detail is welcome. :) I'd use an online translator but I can't copy the text from the pdf file.

[esme]

Could someone make a summary of this article in English?
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files//images/download/coverflow/convergencemag.pdf
I doubt there's much new information in this but every small detail is welcome. :) I'd use an online translator but I can't copy the text from the pdf file.you can't copy the text because it's been rendered as an image :(

however the mag has a web site http://www.lienmultimedia.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=22 and there's a small piece on there that babelfish translates as

Eidos-Montreal put on the community to ensure the success of Thief 4 Stephan D' Astous does not hide her relief of finally being able to say on which new title its studio went floor. Even if the rumour went good progress in the forums on the Web, Eidos-Montreal nevertheless waited more the possible for a long time before announcing officially that it took again the torch of the many times preceded series. “It was a secrecy difficult to keep, acknowledges Stephan d' Astous. I think of having underestimated with which point the community which surrounds this licence is with the mounting of the least development. ” An awaited play which will create, in the long term, a hundred employment.

[VIKTORIA]

Thank you, the translation doesn't make much sense but it was fun to read nevertheless. :D

[Belboz]

This whole thief 4 forum reminds me of that scene in robocop 2 when they have a discussion panel decide what needs adding to robocops core programming and they come up with a 100+ useless ideas that all get added to the core programming and robocop becomes an idiot.

[InGroove2]

My lips are sealed!

doesn't anyone else think that this response is indicative of at least an intent to get Russel back? i'm surprised it was just ignored...

[jtr7]

Because he keeps saying that about many things we ask him about. :D No post response necessary, and it wasn't ignored.

[kin]

Probably the next wave of news will be at the end of this year as their manager said in a video that i don't remember where i found it.

[Fatherwoodsie]

i am a long time tried and true thief fan! and this news is great i cannot wait! ok so heres my suggestions.. bring back the rope arrows. that is a must. i thought the wall climbing gloves were alright but there wasnt many situations where you actually need them. it takes more skill to precisely shoot a rope arrow than to just jump on a wall. besides rope arrows are more realistic.

second, i dont like the idea of garret having a "home" and i dont like the whole switching from city to city thing either, and having missions within the cities. i like thief 1 and 2 where every level starts at a completely different place. with all the space and memory used up by the different cities, that space and memory could be used on more levels.

weapons: the dagger was useless, but if Garret must fight, a sword is more useful, and is more fun when combat with multiple gaurds. water arrows are must, fire arrows are a must, rope arrows are a must. who cares how "unrealistic" it is to be carrying around so many weapons. thats what makes games fun. sometimes the most "realistic" games get tedious and boring.

levels: more cool rooftop levels, some levels should start out in basements. there should be some weird levels like "escape". church levels, cemetary levels are cool. ill post more later i have to go. but im very excited about thief 4. whatever it may be called..

[jtr7]

Wrong thread, hahahaha! But you touch on many of the same sentiments.


Could someone make a summary of this article in English?
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files//images/download/coverflow/convergencemag.pdf
I doubt there's much new information in this but every small detail is welcome. :) I'd use an online translator but I can't copy the text from the pdf file.


We will have to wait awhile, or have someone thoroughly pluck out the most important bits for us. Does anyone have an online subscription to that magazine? At "199 $ CAN (+ TPS 9,95 $ + TVQ 15,67 $ = 224,61 $)" I doubt any of us here have subscribed. This link goes to a page with a better translation of several articles' first paragraphs:
http://tinyurl.com/ml539z

[kaekaelyn]

I'm trying to translate pieces of it that look interesting...this is my understanding of this terrible, terrible computer translation. I'll be typing up other parts later.

Eidos-Montreal does not want to miss the mark with a title like Thief 4. "Everywhere on the forums, the community is very glad to know a new Thief will appear, but at the same time, they all say to us: "Don't f*** this up!" The package is thus put. (???) We want to offer a play which will be in the tradition of the series from a historical point of view, but which will also be very innovative in the (playability? gameplay?). There are certain concepts in this game that I never saw anywhere else; nowhere."

"One does not know what the new consoles will bring to the table," explains Stephan D' Astous. Nintendo transformed the market so much with its Wii; rumor has it that Sony and Microsoft are waiting a little to (reflower their trunks?? what??) before releasing a new console." The director of Eidos Montreal promises that the curious ones will be more satisfied at the time of the next communication on behalf of the studio.

[Fatherwoodsie]

what about people with windows vista? how do those people play T1 and T2 on windows vista? i for one dont have vista i still have xp so i can play both. i have TDS for 360

[jtr7]

People have figured out how to keep all the games running on the new systems. :) T1/TG/T2 can all be run on Vista and Windows 7.

[VIKTORIA]

Indeed. Check TTLG again for help:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125120
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127281

[jtr7]

For whatever reason not understood, there have always been taffers that didn't have to do anything special to install and run any of the games as operating systems and hardware have changed over the years. Very very lucky, those taffers.





Or liars! :lmao:

[DarknessFalls]

People have figured out how to keep all the games running on the new systems. :) T1/TG/T2 can all be run on Vista and Windows 7.
If you download Thief Gold from the online store, then it might not work. It didnt for me on XP anyways. They modified the EXE file so that its slightly different in this downloaded version than the CD version. And this causes the compatibility 'fixes' that people created to not work on this EXE. 'Tis a shame. I hope Eidos makes the downloadable version of TG the same as the CD so more folks can enjoy TG. I had to get a refund. I almost just tried to forget about TG entirely until I saw people here talking about Bafford's Manor and I watched part a youtube video on it. Inspired me to order the CD version of TG from Amazon today, actually! I dont think Ive ever really played much of Thief 1, sadly, but I really look forward to it. I remember too many haunts for my tastes so I stopped playing long ago, but I will give it another solid shot and play all the way thru it. I do hope there is a fair balance between zombies and real guards, though. The Baffords Manor video reminds me there is hope.

I really think Eidos should make sure it is easy for folks to get and play TG and T2 on modern systems so newcomers can get caught up on the series. Fix the downloadable TG EXE issue described above and make Buy Now links from this forum. I would hope folks who like T3 or are new to the series and are here would enjoy trying TG and/or T2 if they were readily available and fairly priced.

[jtr7]

Yes. A proper re-release that works without needing all the old fixes, and making sure all currently available releases are not tampered with (why the heck is every publisher taffing with the code?).

[dark_angel_7]

www.twitter.com/eidosmontreal

Thief 4 team ramping up. Development going good I suppoose...maybe more media?

[jtr7]

They're being pretty quiet about Deus Ex 3, so unless they change tactics for Thief 4, I wouldn't expect anything for quite some time.

Anybody know if there's another big convention coming up?

[Necros]

Well, GDC Europe will be held between August 17-19, they could show something there. the Tokyo Game Show will be between September 24 – 27 and Square Enix will be there, I think they will want to show off their new games. And GDC Austin will be between September 15 – 18, though I'm sure if Square lets EM show anything, they'll do it at one or maybe both of those shows instead. Perhaps a little teasing in August, then a "lot" of info in September? :scratch:

[dark_angel_7]

Vaguely interesting:


We are looking for Programmers (3D Intermediate, Senior AI, Senior Generalist, etc.) to complete the Thief 4 Team! http://eidosmontreal.com

Source - www.twitter.com/eidosmontreal

Emphasis was mine ;)

Possibly ready to show something before the end of the year then?....

[VIKTORIA]

Excellent, hopefully some of you talented taffers will be applying. :cool:

[Innit]

Only Intermediate for the 3D part? I hope it looks like Return To Castle Wolfenstein.

[DarknessFalls]

Intermediate 3D sounds good to me. Hopefully that means the team will spend most of their time making solid and expansive levels, awesome gameplay and AI rather than wasting their time making state-of-the-art uber graphix.

[jtr7]

Intermediate 3D sounds good to me. Hopefully that means the team will spend most of their time making solid and expansive levels, awesome gameplay and AI rather than wasting their time making state-of-the-art uber graphix..

Yes! What audacity EM would display by not trying to out-graphics other games! Deus Ex 3 could do that for them.

[esme]

Excellent, hopefully some of you talented taffers will be applying. :cool:

Love to, but I don't want to up sticks and emigrate to Montreal, though it is tempting

[jermi]

I can't tell whether you guys are joking or whether you just don't have a clue what "intermediate" means in this context.

[dark_angel_7]

I thought I'd post this here:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4082/ken_levine_on_studio_culture_from_.php

Ken Levine on Thief to Bioshock, LGS to 2K and studio culture. Oddly here rarely mentions Thief. I wanted the interviewer to ask him what he thought of Thief 4 Announcement, shame they didn't.

[Squid]

*climbs up out of the sewer* *bones crick and creak*

So, what have I missed? :D

Squid

[DarknessFalls]

I can't tell whether you guys are joking or whether you just don't have a clue what "intermediate" means in this context.
I wasn't joking. "Intermediate" usually means to me "not expert", "pretty good", "not the best, but not the worst"... and in this Thief case, maybe also "not Senior". An intermediate modeler would probably be good, no doubt... but probably not the best; otherwise it would've said "3D Expert".

An intermediate modeler can probably take the graphics and textures to the next level, but if that was desirable, I'd think they'd want an expert modeler from the start so they don't need to do a bunch of training. Sounds like EM's focusing their resources more on the AI and such.

What I said was, "Hopefully that means the team will spend most of their time making solid and expansive levels, awesome gameplay and AI rather than wasting their time making state-of-the-art uber graphix".

I didn't say I knew for sure what EM's intentions were or what exactly the skill level of "Intermediate" means. I do basic 3D modeling; I've seen intermediate, and I think I've seen enough to know what an expert can do.

I'm curious what you think 3D Intermediate means in this context. You weren't trying to hold your 3D taffer knowledge above us, right? :thumb:

[Innit]

I am pretty sure it means they do the graphics with crayons

[kaekaelyn]

I don't know anything about this, but my uneducated guess would be that an intermediate modeler would be used in an "intermediate" stage of modeling, time-wise. As in, there's the first stage of modeling, the intermediate stage of modeling, and then the final stage of modeling.

[VIKTORIA]

^
That makes sense.

[Mastone]

I don't know anything about this, but my uneducated guess would be that an intermediate modeler would be used in an "intermediate" stage of modeling, time-wise. As in, there's the first stage of modeling, the intermediate stage of modeling, and then the final stage of modeling.

No it means something different, it means the level of skill a poly modeler has and Intermediate is not someone at "crayon" level as some suggets :)
I consider myself an intermediate 3d artist and i make stufflike this;
http://www.3dhype.com/leden/784/big_Indy_Monday.jpg

for some stuff you don't need ILM personel and if i would have to run a gamesdevelopment company i would hire 10 intermediates on 2 experts who can assist and guard quality.

I have played Thief3 (deadly shadows) and was deeply impressed by the way it immerses you in the game, if the cityguard was chasing you you'd better run because you could bearly take on one of them and every enemy had is weaknesses it was one of the best games i ever played.
I hope they" ll keep itup

[kin]

Rene is it possible to tell us what kind of new info could we expect when EM decides to release it? I mean will it be some screens, artwork, or just some development info?

[jtr7]

How have they been doing it with DX3? How long was it after the official announcement before they showed anything? I'm hoping that's not the template they are adhering to, but...

[René]

Rene is it possible to tell us what kind of new info could we expect when EM decides to release it? I mean will it be some screens, artwork, or just some development info?

When the time comes, I can only speculate right now but it'll likely be some of the core gameplay, design, and story elements. High-level stuff like the overall plot idea, some of the main characters, artistic direction, key gameplay elements, etc., along with lots of concept art and a few early screenshots. That's just a guess at this point though.

How have they been doing it with DX3? How long was it after the official announcement before they showed anything? I'm hoping that's not the template they are adhering to, but...

DX3 had magazine coverage in European-only mags late last year and into early this year. We'll see but of course there will likely be differences between the two.

[jtr7]

Thanks, René. That was about the coverage I'd seen, and I am hoping Thief will be treated different but not lesser than. :)

[kin]

When the time comes, I can only speculate right now but it'll likely be some of the core gameplay, design, and story elements. High-level stuff like the overall plot idea, some of the main characters, artistic direction, key gameplay elements, etc., along with lots of concept art and a few early screenshots. That's just a guess at this point though.

Thanks for the reply.

So the next wave of news seems that will have much information for us. That is very good :) I am calculating that it will be near the end of this year if the studio plans to reveal so many things.:D
And a last question on the subject Rene. When this kind of info released will the community feedback have any role on changing things in core elements of the game?

[VIKTORIA]

Thanksies, Rene. :flowers:

[René]

And a last question on the subject Rene. When this kind of info released will the community feedback have any role on changing things in core elements of the game?

It's possible. However, what those changes were will probably remain a secret. :)

[Advisor]

Dear VIKTORIA, or anyone else,

Do you know when approx. we will see first thumbs for the game, and what is the date of its release?

Thank you!

:p

[jtr7]

It's only been in production for a few months, and the team isn't fully staffed yet. It'll be a couple of years before a release, and unless they gift us early, we probably won't see anything for many more months.

The previous posts right above you by René are the ones you should keep track of, as well as the Twitter page (http://twitter.com/eidosmontreal) and EM's home site (http://www.eidosmontreal.com/). They also have a Facebook account (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=81350002691&ref=nf) and a YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/EidosMTL). You'll know when we do or before. Our contacts don't even know--or can't say--which is all the same to us.

[tharsis]

Hear!



http://pc.ign.com/articles/982/982148p1.html

Well, he didn't say anything criminal this time, but he came really close.

Stealth mode, that is waht makes Thief so good. No stealth then no point in playing a game that is no dofferent from others. Want stealth, no matter how slow it can be.

[tharsis]

just a suggestion but get the development team to sit down and play the dark project and the metal age, maybe even a few of the fan missions

that universe is basically what we want just on a better engine

Agree to that. Get inspired by the first games. That is what we want. No matter if we get potbellied, there are new gamers who love the style of the game too. No shoot them all please:eek:. Keep the spirit of the game.

[elfnik]

OFC its all about the stealth and the slow planning OF EVERY MOVE..that's real thief job game...even the map had GREAT planner...that the real thing!

[Necros]

When the time comes, I can only speculate right now but it'll likely be some of the core gameplay, design, and story elements. High-level stuff like the overall plot idea, some of the main characters, artistic direction, key gameplay elements, etc., along with lots of concept art and a few early screenshots. That's just a guess at this point though.
I hope your guess is right because this would be great. :cool:
It's possible. However, what those changes were will probably remain a secret. :)
How about you make a short interview about it and put it on a limited edition of the game or something? Or on the devblog after the game is out? :) We, the fans would love to know little behind the scenes details like that. :)

[kin]

René has anyone in the studio (apart from you) played thief 1/2 or/and some fan made missions for those two games?

[PJMaybe]

René has anyone in the studio (apart from you) played thief 1/2 or/and some fan made missions for those two games?

That's what I would like to know too.

They say there are no LGS members on the team but have any of the team at least played through some of the classic Thief games? It was mentioned in the interview about some of the projects that some members of the team had worked on before. It didn't inspire me with much confidence. Its like announcing a new Star Wars film and although none of the production crew have seen Star Wars and they have worked on other films like Police Academy and Brokeback Mountain.

I really hope that they look at what made Thief work and what has made it so successful and they add to the periphery of it - not change the core gameplay. I mean, if you are going to change it, why not just make a new game and leave the Thief franchise for soemone who does like it as it is?

[jtr7]

All we really have so far is Mr. D'Astous saying this is many of the team members' dream project. I want to believe that's because they played Thief and it rocked their world.

[Quad]

That's very good news !

[kin]

It seems that there is a possibility that no one (other than Rene) has played thief 1 and 2 in the EM team. I hope Rene prove me wrong on this one because it is really important IMO.
On the other hand it doesn't necessarily mean that the game will be good simply because everyone has played the previous games but it is importand at least for the plot and story continuation.

[esme]

playing and being hooked would be good

just remember it's not a movie, it's a game we want to play it not nudge it to the next scene

[VIKTORIA]

It seems that there is a possibility that no one (other than Rene) has played thief 1 and 2 in the EM team. I hope Rene prove me wrong on this one because it is really important IMO.
On the other hand it doesn't necessarily mean that the game will be good simply because everyone has played the previous games but it is importand at least for the plot and story continuation.

Well, if my memory serves me well, it was said in an interview that the dev team "have done their homework", so that would suggest that if some of the team have not played the first two games, they have at least studied the elements that made the original games so good. :cool:

[DarknessFalls]

Yeah, playing T1 and T2 and actually liking & appreciating the gameplay are different things.

I hope the EM team actually likes and appreciates T1/T2. I hope they play it at a slow pace naturally, or are forced to play at a slow pace if their natural style is to be impatient and run through levels; and I hope they appreciate the slower pace.

Otherwise, if several of the devs only like FPS games that go 100 MPH like Unreal Tournament, or if they don't appreciate/understand the slow gameplay, then it may be difficult in getting a game delivered in the same vein as T1/T2 where patient exploration and noticing the subtle details are rewards in and of themselves.

[kin]

so that would suggest that if some of the team have not played the first two games

You see this is what I am worrying about. The team has studied the first 2 games without playing them but played the third game witch is the worse advisor IMO. If you where a dev that has no connection with T1and2 what would you remember mostly after playing T3 and just studying the elements in T1-T2?

[jtr7]

I wouldn't want to have to count on René to be our champion for the older games so much, but if the devs' have full comprehension of our discussions BEFORE they settle on a design decision or specific philosophy--if not having a solid education in Thief Theory 101 (301!) from their own playing experience--I can relax.




Wow. Ubisoft really believes in Assassins Creed 2. With about 450 members on the development team! (http://www.nowgamer.com/news/513/assassins-creed-ii-triples-size-of-dev-team) Sheesh! What a budget! EM will have 80 if they can fill out the positions. Since LGS did a lot with a little, I would love to see this spirit affect EM for Thief 4. I realize I'm not making a clean comparison in these statements. :)

[Necros]

It seems that there is a possibility that no one (other than Rene) has played thief 1 and 2 in the EM team.
Based on René's post and on interviews, I think most of the team have played with the Thief games.

[kin]

Based on René's post and on interviews, I think most of the team have played with the Thief games.

Well he didn't confirm it in here:hmm:

[jtr7]

Speaking of the team that you've got, do you have any of the old Looking Glass Studios staff on board?

Well, no, but we've done our homework. We went through this a couple of years ago when we launched the Deus Ex 3 project, so we're pretty much in constant contact with a couple of people. These people are mainly based in Texas and they have their own lives and their own projects, and for now we've built our team with veterans that have worked on numerous triple-A titles. ... In terms of Looking Glass and Ion Storm, we're trying to be as close as possible to some of the original developers, but nothing's confirmed.


You've been paying attention, we hear, to a lot of the fan threads about what people would want from a fourth Thief game. Are you trying to make the Thief game that everybody wants or do you have your own ideas?

Well, again, we're glad that we've learned so much from when we launched the Deus Ex stuff. The communities of these two projects are so vocal, so protective of what they want, and one thing is for sure – they're very active! (Laughs) We're keeping our ear very close to the ground. As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys “I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,” because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief. Obviously we've started work, but it's always very important for the developers to be close to the community. We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans, and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!

...

...we're trying our best to be very close to these people, so we've put a lot of social networking tools in place. ... ...if people want to communicate to us they have several ways to do it, and we welcome all comments, suggestions, and remarks.

...

People should know that Thief is the grandfather of the stealth genre, which was a new type of gameplay back in 1998, and it's important for people to know that this game really created that. It shook the ground a decade ago, and we're trying our best to bring it to market and break new ground.

I can't confirm anything right now or the dev team will kill me! But the team has studied the previous three games and evaluated how they differed and for what reasons, as well as reading fan feedback. That's all I can say for now!

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=993265&postcount=137

And in a video Mr. D'Astous mentioned that Thief has elements he's never seen anywhere. I agree!:thumb:

[VIKTORIA]

^
Thank you so much for tracking down this info. :thumb:

[esme]

^
Thank you so much for tracking down this info. :thumb:yep thanks

just one minor detail

could you pick a slightly less stealthy colour for the highlighted section, the dark red text on black background is messing with my eyes

[jtr7]

How's that?

[esme]

much better thanks :thumb:

you realise by pandering to my whims you are going to be inundated with requests for different coloured text now though don't you ? ;)

[jtr7]

I'm all right with that. If you get carried away, I just won't cave in.

[esme]

I meant from other users, not from me ;)

[jtr7]

Then I expand my statement to include the rest.

[VIKTORIA]

The courtesy shown to taffers here is most honourable. :cool:

[Garrett´s Mind]

I didn´t plan to register in this forum, but when I read that interview I felt like adding my two cents. The comment on how the previous games were too slow really has me worried. There´s no such thing as too slow in Thief. If it isn´t slow, it isn´t Thief. This leads me to think that that the devs don´t understand the concept at all.

Thief changed how I view gaming totally. I have never been so immersed in any other game, so I was ecstatic when I saw that the franchise would continue after all. Now I fear they´ll mess it all up to please a bunch of impatient kids who love shooters. Please don´t do that. PLEASE!

[jtr7]

When I read that, I felt he knew it was an important part of Thief, and one major thing makes it hard for many to get into it, but of course the worry is that they will look for ways to change that to make Thief more inviting to the majority of gamers. TDS was one step toward that direction, already, and it's one thing that many who prefer TDS over the older titles don't like about them. The Thief devs admitted and understood that the stealth was too different.

[dark_angel_7]

Well I posted this in the DX3 forums and thought Thief fans would like to take note towards Eidos' attitude towards EM's games.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=92757

He claimed DX3 will be released only when it is ready. So where does this leave Thief 4, somewhere in the far future? I appreciate them taking their time though. :)

[jtr7]

That's a nice rare gesture to give a new gaming studio time and money to help them start off with as strong a product as they can make (as they believe it to be). Thanks for sharing that. :)

[VIKTORIA]

Agreed. :thumb:

[Squid]

I would say since they're building two separate teams, this gives us lots of hope... no deadlines, or at least very loose ones, means time to get things right and time to update and improve the gaming experience.

Squid

[imperialreign]

My thoughts - well, coming from a very long-time fan of the series (I still have TDP and TMA in those odd-shaped boxes from their original releases) . . . the series have re-shaped my FPS playing style so drastically that I no longer approach such games with the "run & gun" tactics.

Slow and steady progress is the way to go . . . I loved how with T1/2 the maps were very cryptic and usually un-informative, forcing you to really explore and think things out yourself . . . you had to keep yourself one step ahead of the AI, always have an exit planned, etc.

If the new entry will be paced too fast (TDS was even a bit too quick-paced, IMHO), it takes a lot of the immersion out of it . . . Thief was never about "thinking on your toes," but instead planning out what you intended to do - to be patient, observe, and invisible.

[kin]

I believe the story has been fully written for T4. Will "they" kill you Rene if you tell us that the story is something that it will remain unchanged no matter what?

[esme]

http://www.crispygamer.com/_img/comics/backward/backward-2009-08-10_Publish.jpg

"Backward Compatible" by Aaron Williams from Crispygamer

also applies to the devs and René too ;)

[kin]

Just a joke;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Selisios/various/backward-2009-08-10_Publish.jpg

[esme]

:lol:

[jtr7]

A new Tweet: (http://twitter.com/eidosmontreal)
Hot jobs! Thief 4 is looking for: Art Technical Director, Senior Game Designer, Senior Level Designer!

[kin]

I was hopping that till the end of the summer we would have some real news like some screenshots or should I dare to say a game play video? But from what I see the news will come late the next year at best:o

[Innit]

I dont know what to think, when the game went multi-platform to thief 3 it ruined the game (same as with deus ex 2), but my PC is literally ancient (I think it was excavated from close to stonhenge. it has Windows 98BC) and cant afford a new one so I would only actually be able to play this game on the Xbox 360. I think I'd rather wait til my weekly endeavour for the £1000 "coffee break" crossword puzzle comes in and i get a new PC than be able to play another below par thief on the xbox360.

[CerraMorgan]

I totally understand your concern. When TDS first came out, there was no way my old P3 was going to play it. When it finally died and I was forced to upgrade, I thought the new one would be OK, but after hunting down a copy on eBay and trying to load it I discovered otherwise. :(

I had to upgrade my video card first, and it wasn't cheap. And when I finally got to play the disappointment that was TDS...? :mad2: I still have a lot of trouble with it running smoothly on my computer.

I can only hope that T4 doesn't have quite such high-end specifications. Either that or I win the lottery...:lmao:

I'm certainly not running out to buy a console to play one game.

[jtr7]

It needs to run enjoyably well at the minimum specs, and if my rig is better than the recommended requirements, I expect it to work as good as it can. This is barring major changes to hardware tech, which wouldn't be EM's fault, but if my processor is only a faster version than what they support, my OS is the same as what they support, and everything is only faster and with higher memory, I should be able to play the game smoothly. I still don't know what's interfering with my TDS.

[DarknessFalls]

When I first played TMA, I remember it had a relatively choppy framerate. Then when I upgraded couple years later and ever since, it's been quite smooth. I wouldn't mind some framerate issues with my PC at the initial launch of T4 -- actually, they're inevitable since my PC is getting antiquated -- but I don't need it running as smooth as butter for me and my old PC. I wouldn't mind something to grow into, like TMA was for me. I definitely don't need or want the latest/greatest technology used in T4, because that likely means the gameplay itself will suffer a horrible fate... and T1/T2 graphics don't bother me at all ... but having some decent graphics in T4 would be nice. TMA graphics on some nice steroids sounds good.

[Innit]

I had to play TDS on my dads computer because mine wouldnt cope, and despite that like CerraMorgan I still had to upgrade the graphics card because it kept asking for a pixel shader or something. And my dads PC really was no more than a few months old at the time.

[NoxNoctum]

Haven't really been following this since that original rumor about that dude having the Thief "T" on his facebook account... figured it was far enough off that there wasn't much point in worrying about it.

Has ANY real info been released about the game setting, gameplay mechanics, etc.?

[jtr7]

Nope. All the news is being dripped into this thread:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=88482

It's WAAAAAAYYY too early for them to tell us anything. All we know they have is their Proof-of-Concept that earned them the greenlight to begin the project, but even that can change to something so different.

They only have about half the team right now. Go to... http://www.Thief4.com/ ...and click the links at the bottom to get all the latest news we have.

TDP came from the mustard seed of a game called "Better Red Than Undead", about Nazi Zombies (That old concept. They loved them some zombies, eh?), and then it morphed heavily into "Dark Camelot" and Ken Levine and Doug Church tipped it over into the more recognizable early Thief concept, and it evolved further into TDP, which was changed further in Thief Gold.

[Davehall380]

TDP came from the mustard seed of a game called "Better Red Than Undead", about Nazi Zombies (That old concept. They loved them some zombies, eh?), and then it morphed heavily into "Dark Camelot" and Ken Levine and Doug Church tipped it over into the more recognizable early Thief concept, and it evolved further into TDP, which was changed further in Thief Gold.

I never knew that. Was this original idea part of Looking Glass Studios, or did the concept get adopted?

[jtr7]

It was theirs. Here's are a couple of linkies:

http://gillen.cream.org/wordpress_html/?p=676
KG: Moving onto Thief, it didn’t actually start as the stealth game that was finally released. Care to talk about its original incarnation as Dark Camelot?

Doug Church: “Actually, it started as a communist zombie game, but that didn’t get very far past Marketing. Then it became Dark Camelot, which was our reverse Arthurian fiction where King Arthur was a bad guy, and Merlin was this time traveller from the future and you were Mordredd the black Knight trying to save the setting. And Guineverre was a cool butch dyke. But our Marketing department… well, not buying any of it. We wanted to do that storyline as we wanted to do something that was more high concept and arch and arty and all that – but I can understand why our Marketing department didn’t buy that. We wanted to make a story-driven game, but action-orientated – but the more we worked on it, the more the other ideas weren’t quite working out. It was a more organic approach than Underworld and Shock.”


http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13902
Jonathan: ...what did the team learn from their first outing that was then applied to the sequel?

Randy: Honestly, the stealth gameplay chemistry of Thief 1 didn't truly come together till very close to ship, possibly as close as a few weeks. Although we all had our suspicions, it wasn't until then that it was clear which types of content would be a good match for the game systems - so one major design objective of Thief 2 was to create levels where sneaking was more central to the objectives and the world geometry/lighting.

Jonathan: How do you think you did? I understand that Thief was originally a communist zombie game?

Randy: Are those 2 different questions?

Jonathan: The “communist zombie game” comment is to address the bit about "Thief didn't truly come together till the 11th hour."

Randy: Ah. No, the zombie communist idea ("Better Red Than Undead") didn't have a long life, and was dead and buried (no pun intended) before I even started on The Dark Project.

The concept of T: TDP was very clear and solid through most of our development, but the gameplay itself wasn't fun and visceral and well-balanced to the point where people "got it" and believed in it until the 11th hour.

Jonathan: I see. For the sequel, the team made sneaking more central to the experience.

Randy: That was the idea, yes, as opposed to alternate gameplay styles like fighting and puzzle-solving.

Jonathan: So what’s your verdict?

Randy: I think we went a little overboard. T:TDP had a magical chemistry that was easy to believe in, a strong world and mood that was highly immersive. There were parts of T2: TMA where it felt a little frayed around the edges, where too much logic seemed clearly to go into the design, sometimes at the expense of the chemistry and magic and immersion of the world.

That said, the core stealth gameplay was more "on stage" more of the time and allowed for more player expression, so that was a big win.

[Necros]

I remember reading somewhere that Warren Spector played a part in the changing process too. Before leaving Looking Glass for Ion Storm. Or am I wrong? :scratch:

[jtr7]

Yeah, he was at LGS and was given a special thanks in the TDP credits. He was Producer briefly, but during one of many financial crises LGS weathered, up to half the staff of LGS were lost, and Warren left to go to Ion. I've heard he made his contribution to TDP in the 2nd year of it's three-year development, but I can't find confirmation of that, yet.

His LinkedIn profile mentions he was General Manager at Looking Glass Austin. The MobyGames profile says he was Executive Producer.

[minus0ne]

Doug Church: “Actually, it started as a communist zombie game, but that didn’t get very far past Marketing. Then it became Dark Camelot, which was our reverse Arthurian fiction where King Arthur was a bad guy, and Merlin was this time traveller from the future and you were Mordredd the black Knight trying to save the setting. And Guineverre was a cool butch dyke. But our Marketing department… well, not buying any of it.
Don't let it be said that "greenlight committees" are a development of the last few years :D



Lucky for us, though ;)

[Secondary]

we have a statement from Eidos that the game is being made, but not too much else


the game is in the embriotic stage yet, its formless and small

its going to take a long time for a fetus to develop from that embryo, and after that, a game to grow and mature from the fetus

[Nephthys]

to think, a steampunk dark, thiefy game spawned from nazis.


Oh where the human imagination wanders.

[Necros]

Eidos-Montreal is looking for a new PR agency able to support a nation-wide campaign. Who's wants to be associated w/ Deus Ex, Thief and ?
:cool: Sounds like we won't have to wait much longer. :) Hopefully. :D And maybe this means that they're working on their third game too, possibly an original IP (according to their original plans).

[Necros]

the game is in the embriotic stage yet, its formless and small
I wouldn't say that but it's still in the early development phase for sure. They have the story and most of the design stuff on paper, I think. And by now they should have a few maps and stuff too.

[Subjective Effect]

jtr7 but you seem to get your info mixed up. Nazi are not communists for starters, and TDP did not develop into Thief Gold. Thief Gold is just some extra missions and tweaks, and those missions are missions they would have liked to have been in the original. The way you put it its as if Gold is an evolution of the TDP concept. It isn't, its the same concept with more content.

[minus0ne]

jtr7 but you seem to get your info mixed up. Nazi are not communists for starters, and TDP did not develop into Thief Gold. Thief Gold is just some extra missions and tweaks, and those missions are missions they would have liked to have been in the original. The way you put it its as if Gold is an evolution of the TDP concept. It isn't, its the same concept with more content.
Technically they did more than just add content; they also tweaked and slightly changed a bit of the original missions.

[kin]

Interesting.
In what waiting time could we translate that?

[jtr7]

I didn't mix up Nazi and Communist, I mixed up the seed that became Bioshock with the seed that became Dark Project. :p

Arctic, underground, Nazi bunkers where things went very wrong with their experiments.

[evilblizz]

come on it's been 5 monts and still not even an image :( .... only player speculations on forum :( .....

please give us a trailer , screen shots ,something ... i'm burning here :))

ops i was Drunk "Thief 4" Title

[Subjective Effect]

How about you give a thread title that has something to do with the content?

And regarding the content - why not go play some other games? Its going to be an age. Accept it.

[kabatta]

They just want people to boil a year or two in their own shell.

[jtr7]

There are going to be threads like this every couple of weeks, and posts about it every other day. It won't stop for the next couple of years, even after they do show us something. :(

[Hamadriyad]

You have to be patient and wait in the shadows taffer.

[Davehall380]

Lol im pretty sure that there are plenty of screenshots avaliable for Thief 3

[Subjective Effect]

ha ha yes

[Yaphy]

What! I dont get this thread. In what world do you live in if you havent noticed that Thief 3 is out and you actually is on the Thief 4 forum?
Its not that weird that they havent showed us anything from Thief 4. They just started to work on the game. Its going to take some time until they even have something to show us.

[Davehall380]

I think they should release screenshots of the office, what they had for lunch, the view out of the window etc, the aim being to keep the baying masses under control.

[evilblizz]

ha ha ma bad dudes I mean Thief 4 .... this is like so new to me and i'm used to write thief 3 :))

sry again for the title it's Thief 4 not 3 :P

[evilblizz]

Its not that weird that they havent showed us anything from Thief 4. They just started to work on the game. Its going to take some time until they even have something to show us.

i know making a have is hard ....but there 100 people or more :)) come on

[Davehall380]

i know making a have is hard ....but there 100 people or more :)) come on

I tried to make a have once, and its was one of the hardest bloody things I ever had to do

[VIKTORIA]

come on it's been 5 monts and still not even an image :( .... only player speculations on forum :( .....

please give us a trailer , screen shots ,something ... i'm burning here :))

ops i was Drunk "Thief 4" Title

All us taffers are eager to see a trailer and screenshots, of course. :)
But at this stage it is a little too early to expect too much so soon after the official anouncement. Patience is what we are good at, and so we must continue to employ it. ;)
I merged your new thread into here: "City Watch".

[jtr7]

Evilblizz, what do you mean "100 people or more"? Here, yes. At Eidos-Montréal? Less than 60 on the team making Thief 4, and after they are done hiring everybody, no more than 80.

[evilblizz]

"Patience is what we are good at" .... you 're right .

I was saying that there are a lot of people working on thief.I guess there working on 2 games and that makes it slower or somethin' .I wished they ware working only on thief >:) (i don't care about deus EX or what you call it :)) )

Why did they announced thief so early :| ... There mean wanna make us wait and see who dies first:))

[jtr7]

There are less than 60 people working on Thief 4, and the other 80 are working on Deus Ex 3 only (barring any traded info and stuff that would come up in conversation). They announced it shortly after they got approval to get us excited, so now we must exert self-control and discipline to keep ourselves calm.









(Wheeeeeee!)

[esme]

There are less than 60 people working on Thief 4, and the other 80 are working on Deus Ex 3 only (barring any traded info and stuff that would come up in conversation). They announced it shortly after they got approval to get us excited, so now we must exert self-control and discipline to keep ourselves calm.









(Wheeeeeee!)

yeah, just substitute "play Thief 4" or "see Thief 4 previews" for "disneyworld" in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWvkpTY2Wo) and you've got the general idea of how calm, relaxed, self controlled and disciplined we all are

[VIKTORIA]

"Patience is what we are good at" .... you 're right .

I was saying that there are a lot of people working on thief.I guess there working on 2 games and that makes it slower or somethin' .I wished they ware working only on thief >:) (i don't care about deus EX or what you call it :)) )

Why did they announced thief so early :| ... There mean wanna make us wait and see who dies first:))

The teams working on DX3 and T4 are separate, so there is no issue here.

EM announced the game and created this forum so that taffers old and new can come here to discuss T4. The dev team are interested in our opinions and feedback. This point is more important than the actual release date, imo. :)

[esme]

for the devs - see this (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124388) this mission is being developed by one person, in his spare time, in under a year, using a ten year old engine, your challenge should you accept it is to produce something at least this good using up to 80 people with around a two year development cycle and a modern engine :D

ps the author is french and should you wish to import him I'm sure he would have no problem fitting into montreal given a sufficiently large incentive

pps just let him finish this mission first

[VIKTORIA]

Nice post. :)

Has he actually applied for a position with EM?
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/en/jobs.html

[PJMaybe]

for the devs - see this (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124388) this mission is being developed by one person, in his spare time, in under a year, using a ten year old engine, your challenge should you accept it is to produce something at least this good using up to 80 people with around a two year development cycle and a modern engine :D

ps the author is french and should you wish to import him I'm sure he would have no problem fitting into montreal given a sufficiently large incentive

pps just let him finish this mission first

I'm almost as excited about Rocksbourg as I am about T4. I hope he's applied for a job at EM too, it would be good to have some good FM devs on the team.

[VIKTORIA]

I hope he's applied for a job at EM too, it would be good to have some good FM devs on the team.

I agree. :)

[esme]

wtf :scratch: I was sure I posted already ... must have hit preview instead .... senility has finally caught me :o

anyway what I was sure I said was this

he's just graduated as an architect so I think it's unlikely he'll be applying for a job at em anytime soon, but if they were to approach him with an interesting enough offer he might be tempted

any chance of a finders fee if this happens :D

--EDIT--

I'll accept payment in Ginko Beloba :) .... :zzZ:

[VIKTORIA]

wtf :scratch: I was sure I posted already ... must have hit preview instead .... senility has finally caught me :o


Haha, don't worry. It catches up on us all... eventually. :D

[evilblizz]

hey don't worry maybe there is gonna be a Level Editor on T4 and this dude can make more expansion packs ... and a lot of missions so we can play and play and play ..........yeaaaaaaaaa :))))))))) ( i m drunk)

[VIKTORIA]

..........yeaaaaaaaaa :))))))))) ( i m drunk)

Aha, so you are the taffer who took two kegs of my finest ale from the tavern cellar! :p

[evilblizz]

I bes not!The tricksy god bes there thief!

I just finished t3 again and i think i m gonna finish it again coz i like it too much !

[kin]

We just said goodbye to our visitors after two very productive days of meetings. Good things are on the horizon!
https://twitter.com/eidosmontreal
Do those visitors have any relation with thief development? The twitter page has a DX3 background lately and confuses me. Is it for thief or DX3?

[jtr7]

It's for Eidos-Montréal, not a specific game. Deus Ex 3 will be released first, and they are in what would be called "crunch time" for gaming companies, but I don't know what that means for EM because some companies try to alleviate the pressure and long hours. Maybe since they were granted an extension in development time recently, they aren't crunching as hard.

[b1k3rdude]

This forum is all fine and dandy, but when/where is there going to be some actual updates and or media for us the players to look at..?

[Platinumoxicity]

Worst case scenario: "As soon as possible"
Best case scenario: "As soon as the developers have decided roughly what the players want/don't want in the game so that they can seriously start showing what they've come up with."

Oh, and nice nick. You get it from "Bikerdude" in TTLG? ;)

[theBlackman]

Oh, and nice nick. You get it from "Bikerdude" in TTLG? ;)

Not certain, but I think it might be Bikerdude. :)

[VIKTORIA]

This forum is all fine and dandy, but when/where is there going to be some actual updates and or media for us the players to look at..?

Currently, its a little too early to expect any specific details of the game. I guess we just have to be patient for the time being. :)

[kin]

Currently, its a little too early to expect any specific details of the game. I guess we just have to be patient for the time being. :)
I believe some solid decisions have been made by now so we could have some of that info to continue discussing. With nothing you get nothing.:o

[Voodoo]

very true i feel the same we cant go on talking its like holding a carrot in front of a donkey but not allowing him 2 eat it we must have some information soon ive spent hours surfing the web 4 something but alas nothing we need something.

[b1k3rdude]

Not certain, but I think it might be Bikerdude. :)
Tiss me from ttlg, :D

[jtr7]

Heh heh. Hello there! ...And here!

[dark_angel_7]

www.eidosmontreal.com

Eidos Montreal grows to 250 employees strong! :D Although that is below their previous targets :p

[kin]

I wonder wich one made the logo, I see two persons with a thi4f t-shirt in the photo:D








just joking.

[jtr7]

http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files/images/news/Eidos-Studio-2009-01-LF.jpg

Heh heh. I was reminded that, not only are they looking to hire 40 people to fill out the team for this phase of development (from a core of 20 until they reach 60), until the final stages where they will add the last 20, but they are hiring these 40 people over the next 4-to-5 months. So the goal of 60 should be formed before the end of the year, and after a long while, the last 20 will come on--barring changes in plans should development take an exciting turn.

[kin]

4 to 5 months it's a long time but i believe we will get some decent news before this. I mean haven't they worked on anything else but the logo?

[jtr7]

Yep! But you'll have to be one of the twelve tricky taffers (who took their tea at two today) to steal a peek.

[Namdrol]

Ian Livingston the Life President of Eidos (and one of the formative figures of my childhood and anyone in the UK who's played an RPG, pre-computers) gave a speech (http://www.gc-asia.sg/index.php?session=c8052205c704b5e9330da8f36bed1804&page=759&params[6][2]=YTozOntzOjc6ImNvbW1hbmQiO3M6MTA6InNob3dEZXRhaWwiO 3M6NjoiZW50aXR5IjtzOjc6IjMwNjk2NjciO3M6ODoicmVkaXJ lY3QiO2I6MTt9) in Singapore in which he mentioned Thief 4. (4 lines up from the bottom)

[Zannadar]

No fair.

[dark_angel_7]

Ian Livingston the Life President of Eidos (and one of the formative figures of my childhood and anyone in the UK who's played an RPG, pre-computers) gave a speech (http://www.gc-asia.sg/index.php?session=c8052205c704b5e9330da8f36bed1804&page=759&params[6][2]=YTozOntzOjc6ImNvbW1hbmQiO3M6MTA6InNob3dEZXRhaWwiO 3M6NjoiZW50aXR5IjtzOjc6IjMwNjk2NjciO3M6ODoicmVkaXJ lY3QiO2I6MTt9) in Singapore in which he mentioned Thief 4. (4 lines up from the bottom)

Thankyou a great read. :)

[DarknessFalls]

http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files/images/news/Eidos-Studio-2009-01-LF.jpg
It should have a caption saying:
Pictured from left-to-right: Taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer

Or just:
"Pictured here: One excellent taffin' crew!"

[VIKTORIA]

It should have a caption saying:
Pictured from left-to-right: Taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer, taffer

I prefer this one, it's much more subtle. :D

[Aceyalone7777]

Actually do you thin we are gonna see anything in MIGS 2009? It's a games convention held in Montreal

[jtr7]

Nope. It will very likely be about the studio and very likely won't give anymore info than we know, with a focus on Deus Ex 3, and probably T-shirts with "THI4F", etc. It very likely will be more about getting the public familiar with them, their projects, and help with recruitment. If there's any exclusive info for the conventioneers, it will reach us not too long after. I seriously doubt there will be anything more than what they had at E3. I think I read they would have Batman: AA to pass the time/advertise.

[sinephase]

I'm still confused how a 4 looks like an 'e'... 4E4e....
I wonder how long we actually have to wait for release - 2 years or so?

[jtr7]

Yes. Two years or so.

[Secondary]

i can live with 3-4 years if that means extra time for more quality

if only you could put a game in a barrel and let it ferment for a few years like wine, then pull it out and its much better:D

[VIKTORIA]

^
So very true. :cool:

[kin]

I hope the next wave of news will give us a fully updated thief4 site with artwork, characters, story, teaser etc. I really can't accept anything less at this time. So better be late but with a ton of info.
I was hoping for this to happen at the end of the year but it seems that it is not going to happen that soon.

[Stormpen]

Is there a official website yet? :scratch:

[kin]

http://www.thief4.com/

[kin]

It seems that right now the above link does not work (not showing thi4f logo). Anyone else with the same problem?

[jtr7]

The site's broken! No links at the bottom for EM's site, Twitter, Facebook, and this forum!

[DarknessFalls]

I wish EM would come out with at least some more info on what the plan is. The same stuff is getting re-hashed in the threads for months now. We need an injection of new life...

[Aceyalone7777]

maybe the site doesnt work temporarly because they are upgrading or adding some stuff and the server is down!

Huraay!

On the other hand the Deus Ex 3 site is in the same state 2 years now... :(

What we may get, is a new redisgned Thi4f logo! AYE to that!

[Psychomorph]

What we may get, is a new redisgned Thi4f logo! AYE to that!
AYE! Would be nice to have a more officially-final Thief 4 logo and a nice wallpaper. I use the current "THI4F" wallpaper, it's ok, but... well.

[jtr7]

Well, based on René's private message, what's happened to the site is a mystery and needs solving.


Thanks to Kin for pointing it out and Stormpen for asking.

[Aceyalone7777]

Well, site is alive and kicking again (...)

Still, the same old same Thi4f logo though... Pfff

[jtr7]

Ah! Indeed it is...

[Hecateus]

I'm still confused how a 4 looks like an 'e'... 4E4e....
I wonder how long we actually have to wait for release - 2 years or so?

It's the New Math™.

[jtr7]

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3722/28475257.jpg

[kin]

https://twitter.com/eidosmontreal
Do you believe there will be any thief news soon? (probably not)

[jtr7]

I think it's all recruiting and integrating with the game development industry. It's employer, employee, industry, and not yet the consumers.

[Telex]

It's been said many times before, but I'll say it again. I hope they change the logo before release. I dunno if I could in good conscious buy a game called ThiAf, even if it was really good haha.

[Namdrol]

For all those wanting something to do till Thief 4's released try this (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129171).

:thumb:

[kin]

I copy pasted this DX3 image from EM site because it looks like a real 3d environment. Can someone tell me if it is just an artwork or a fully 3d designed city? (just hoping that thief will have that huge environments :) )
If it is not clear you can check it at EM site waiting to show up on top of the page.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Selisios/various/dx3.jpg

[Pieter888]

I'm pretty sure it's real, why would EM go through all that work just for a site banner?

[Aceyalone7777]

Wow, and you then think that if DX3 has such graphics, what would T4 have????

[VIKTORIA]

This is a real image of Montreal by night. Beautiful, isn't it. :)
If you try Google images and look for "Montreal By Night", for example, you will find some clearer images.

Anyway, just to update this thread. Current Thief dev team vacancies are:


* Special Effects Artist
* Senior Animator
* Senior Level Artist
* Art Tecnical Director
* UI Artist
* Character Artist Senior
* Programmer Audio
* Programmer Generalist Senior

Go here: http://www.eidosmontreal.com/

[kin]

This is a real image of Montreal by night. Beautiful, isn't it. :)
If you try Google images and look for "Montreal By Night", for example, you will find some clearer images.

Anyway, just to update this thread. Current Thief dev team vacancies are:


* Special Effects Artist
* Senior Animator
* Senior Level Artist
* Art Tecnical Director
* UI Artist
* Character Artist Senior
* Programmer Audio
* Programmer Generalist Senior

Go here: http://www.eidosmontreal.com/


Yes i discovered it later:rolleyes:

[G-Machine]

Has there been any new information about this game? I'v been out the loop for a couple of months.

[Namdrol]

No G-Machine, nothing unfortunately.
We're all starting to get restless as you might have witnessed here. :)

[G-Machine]

Indeed, I am also one of the restless undead. A couple of screenshots would be nice, just to know what kind of direction they're taking this in. Even concepts would be good.

[VIKTORIA]

Just to update this thread with Rene's latest post:



I just wanted to let those of you in the Montréal area know that we are hosting our third annual Open House on Sunday November 15 from 11:00am-6:00pm.

Our doors are open to all and you will be able to have an all-access tour of the studio, ask questions to the Deus Ex 3, Thief 4, and Quality Assurance teams, view workstations related to art, animation and design, enter into prize draws, enjoy refreshments, etc.

It should be a pretty cool day so if you're local, definitely check it out! We have an event on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169923744897&ref=mf) and here are some pics from last year!

Date: Sunday, 15 November 2009
Time: 11:00 - 18:00
Location: 400 de Maisonneuve West, 6th floor, Montréal, Québec

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/P1010554_edited-1.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/P1010579_edited-1.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/P1010651_edited-1.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/P1010714_edited-1.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/_MG_7864_edited-1.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/_MG_7866_edited-1.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/_MG_7884_edited-1.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/_MG_7890_edited-1.jpg


Goodsie times. :cool:

[Namdrol]

Sorry Viktoria,
I don't mean to take to your post of the page but I came in to post in this thread!!
Bad timing on my part.

Anyway, Yoichi Wada has just given an interview which contains a bit which might help put minds at ease.


Yoichi Wada:
As an entertainment company the business won't be viable if we don't continue to nurture new IPs - but we don't need to come up with something that's dramatically new for the existing franchises, because we already have fans for those. If we carefully evolve them, that should be sufficient.

Full interview is here. (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/yoichi-wada-part-one-interview)
(Quote comes from page 2, follow link at bottom)

[VIKTORIA]

^
No problems, and thank you for this snippet. It sounds promising. :cool:

[VIKTORIA]

NEWS UPDATE

Randy Smith will be giving a talk at this year's MIGS. If you are attending the conference, his one-hour talks begin on Day One at 17:15pm in the Outremont Room; and Day Two at 11.30am in the Pointe-aux-Trembles Room.

For the benefit of those taffers who are not familiar with Mr Smith, this past interview (dated May 29,2006) should give some insight into his involvement in the Thief series:
"Through the Looking Glass and Beyond" ( http://www.gamer20.com/features/201/1/)


Some quotes to note:

THIEF: THE DARK PROJECT
To date, it was the best project of my life, although maybe first projects are always like that. I learned a ton, I connected with an awesome team, and I believe the shared magic of that group led to the success that was Thief: The Dark Project.

The first Thief actually did entirely well. It wasn't a run away success, but it certainly experienced respectable sales, especially for a dated-looking, edgy, unconventional game that was going head to head with Half-Life, Metal Gear Solid, Tenchu, etc. in the same financial quarter. It was great to see people digging on a new concept! I tend to believe that the first Thief demonstrates that the following Thief games could also have done well in the market, but various mistakes were made. I attribute those mostly to the development situation, frankly, though of course it's hard to separate whether I’m just being overly critical of something I was involved with. Basically, I think the first Thief did a better job reaching out to new players and had a more evocative chemistry than the subsequent ones.


THIEF: THE METAL AGE
I was a designer / level-builder again on T:MA, but I was one of just a few designers who also worked on Thief 1, so I had a much more senior role. More working with Tim Stellmach, the lead designer, on game systems design, for example. I also took a lead role on the story, working closely with Emil Pagliarulo, Dan Thron, and Terri Brosius to do our best with that.

In Metal Age we tried hard to address the missed opportunities we perceived from having worked on the Dark Project. We wanted to focus on our game's unique qualities - stealth over combat, essentially. Dark Project had a few levels that didn't afford great stealth gameplay, and we wanted to fix that. I think that was a good call. I think there were some bad calls as well.

For one, we didn't follow up by making sure the stealth would be emotionally satisfying despite not being cut by combat and exploration as much as was present in thief 1. Also, we (mostly me, frankly) drove the story in a bottom-up direction: mission designs that we had to wrap a story around, in response to thief 1 which was mostly top-down: story that led to mission designs. The right approach, I know now, is a little of both until they meet happily in the middle. Overall, the game felt more focused, but also tenser to its detriment, and a little less magical in consistency and mood.


THIEF: DEADLY SHADOWS
Thief 3 started at Looking Glass, and I had been promoted to Lead Designer (Tim Stellmach shifted over to leading up design on a new project which was never completed due to LG's shut down). Terri Brosius was my co-lead - I was more gameplay and she was more story. We were basically the only two on the project when LG shut its doors in 2000.

LG's IP (intellectual property) went to auction to pay off debt, and Eidos purchased Thief and gave the project to ION Storm's Austin office, headed up by Warren Spector. I interviewed at ION, expecting Warren to offer me the position of Lead Designer, which he did, but he surprised me by also offering me the position of Project Director, so I wound up on both for a while. (Towards the end of the project, Jordan Thomas took over the Lead Design responsibilities.)

The end of the Thief: DS project was an extremely tense and stressful time for our team and ION Storm in general. No one was happy with how production was going, for various reasons, and it was clear that the quality wasn't shaping up as well we'd hoped. The team was burning themselves out trying to get the game out of the door, and I was terribly unhappy.

The team had many great design ideas (too many, in fact, one of the problems I brought to the troubled development environment at ION Storm), and it was sad that many of them were cut or compromised.
This isn't to say that Thief: DS doesn't have lots of great ideas and impressive accomplishments, just that it clearly could have gone so much better.

We were trying to accomplish a lot of things, almost certainly too much. Here are a few major ones:

We wanted to augment the "play through a compelling story as a thief" concept with "explore an open-ended city as a thief to discover and accomplish objectives". We were trying to hit a sweet spot of exploratory and guided play, and we wanted to player feel like there was a living, breathing city full of opportunity and interaction.

We wanted to make the player feel more directly involved with the story, not just living out the action sequences in an otherwise static detective novel. The player is present and active when major events happen in the narrative, and they can see the results in the world around them.

We wanted to reinforce stealth and guile (as opposed to might and combat) as Garrett's primary powers. We were trying to give the player tools to manage cases where being sneaky failed (e.g. - Garrett gets caught by guards) in order to make stealth more forgiving.

We were hoping for a more action-oriented version of stealth. We wanted to empower a quicker, more nimble Garrett who thought on his feet and was always on the move. We would still enable (but never require) ultra-careful, one-step-at-a-time scouting behaviors for players interested in that.


OTHER GAMES
After ION Storm, I became a design consultant for a couple of years. Announced titles that I contributed to include: Dark Messiah of Might & Magic developed by Arkane Studios in Lyon, France, and Open Season in Ubisoft Montreal. I have a lot of respect for both companies and the teams on those projects.
More recently, I took a full time position at Electronic Arts in Los Angeles, working with Doug Church (former design colleague and mentor from Looking Glass) on a Steven Spielberg game.



**

MINI BIO
Between 1997 and 2000 Randy Smith worked as a designer at Looking Glass Studios on such games as Thief: The Dark Project (1998) and Thief II: The Metal Age (2000). When Looking Glass was closed, he moved to Ion Storm Inc. in Austin where he was the project director on Thief: Deadly Shadows (2004). That studio was closed in February 2005 and after that he provided design consultancy for titles as Open Season (2006) and Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (2006), and was a creative director at Electronic Arts in Los Angeles where he collaborated with Steven Spielberg. He has also written a monthly column for the UK EDGE magazine.

After that, he founded the iPhone development studio Tiger Style with David Kalina. Their first game Spider: The Secret of Bryce Manor was released in 2009.

Games Credited:

MySims (2007), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Open Season (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Thief: Deadly Shadows (2004), Eidos, Inc.
Thief II: The Metal Age (2000), Eidos, Inc.
System Shock 2 (1999), Electronic Arts, Inc.
Thief (Gold) (1999), Eidos Interactive Ltd.
Thief: The Dark Project (1998), Eidos Interactive, Inc.

Source: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,6831/

[jtr7]

Thanks for posting that! :cool::thumb:

[VIKTORIA]

^
You are most welcome. :)


EM Facebook Update:

Eidos-Montréal is hosting its third annual Open House on Sunday November 15 from 11:00am to 6:00pm! The only game industry event of its type in Montréal, our doors are open to all! Ever wonder how video games are made? Attend our Open House and you will be able to enjoy an all-access tour of the studio, ask questions to the Deus Ex 3, Thief 4, and Quality Assurance teams, view workstations related to art, animation and design, enter into prize draws, enjoy refreshments, and more!

As part of the MIGS development long weekend, you will be able to talk with and share your experiences with members from our studio and we encourage you to bring your CV's and chat with our Human Resources department. If you have any questions about breaking into the industry this is a golden opportunity! All age groups are welcome! We look forward to seeing you.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169923744897&ref=mf

[jtr7]

Man, if that isn't just the hype we're hoping to hear. "All access?" to the rooms, not the info...so...we need a master filcher, a cutpurse, a pickpocket to grab anything that frob-highlights.

Frob them highlights! You have six or seven hours to complete this mission!


If the computer screens have anything that looks at all Thiefy... If they let you see any works in progress... If anyone is overheard saying "taffer" with any genuine conviction...

[Namdrol]

So, caps off please ladies and gentleman.
It is time to mourn and mark the passing of one of the great games publishers.

http://i14.piczo.com/view/4/s/j/m/u/9/e/2/e/5/p/t/img/t354928880_73043_6.gif

As of yesterday Eidos Interactive officially ceased to exist.


Press Release (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/square-enix-eidos-combined-uk-business-now-known-simply-as--square-enix---well--reasonably-simply)

[esme]

Man, if that isn't just the hype we're hoping to hear. "All access?" to the rooms, not the info...so...we need a master filcher, a cutpurse, a pickpocket to grab anything that frob-highlights.

Frob them highlights! You have six or seven hours to complete this mission!


If the computer screens have anything that looks at all Thiefy... If they let you see any works in progress... If anyone is overheard saying "taffer" with any genuine conviction...you are asking this of people who play thief ? :D

[jtr7]

Sadly, I expect people to forget they have cameras and miss a hundred opportunities to capture sights and sounds, as an ironic consequence of paying too much attention and not wanting to miss anything.

[esme]

and I thought I was a cynic, have a hug (((((((((( jtr7 )))))))))) and lets hope you are wrong

[jtr7]

I've gone on vacations to beautiful countrysides and taken less than a roll of film for always being on the move, distracted by a million unique moments I was soaking up with my senses, rather than into a device. Thus, a call for devices that can run a long time and be aimed with little effort, and brought with extra power and recording space, and all used whether the user is thinking about it or not. The more persons running these devices at once, the more someone (me, perhaps) could cull from and edit all the good parts together--then upload them to YouTube.

[Black Vine]

Finally! A fellow taffer who can't stand TDS.

Seriously, i really don't get what the hoo-ha is with this announcement. Shudn't everyone be worried?

I mean, i hate to be a pessimist, but some things never change.

Maethius pretty much covered everything with what went wrong in TDS. I don't know about you people but i hated how cartoon-like the guards looked in that game. And rag doll physics in that game was really somethin. You could make balloon animals out of those guards.

And what's with the weird ass purple theme? If there's a color to follow in Thief, it's BLACK!!!
Shadows, hello?

Ubisoft Montreal must not think like Ubisoft Montreal. They must think like Looking Glass.

Imagine how TDS would have turned out if it was done by LG. That's how UM must approach T4.

Look only at TDP and TMA and nothin else.

Readin up on what that Stephane dude said is very, very discouraging to say the least.

He plays Assassin's Creed for reference? Great! Assassin's Creed only sucked monkey's balls the last time i played it. Repetitive gameplay redefined. Ubisoft still owes me money for that steaming pile of dung Jade calls a game.

The dude also mentioned staying true to the original with the technology being improved on. if he sticks to his word and doesn't pull a Cevat Yerli then T4 could be a worthy successor.

Can u imagine that happening? The same Thief look and feel only, everything is updated.
The guards look more realistic but still retain that look from TDP and TMA. That's all they gotta do. No reinterpreting is necessary. We know you're creative just, don't get too creative. Please? That's how TDS got botched up by the way.

The thing is, the Stephane dude himself acknowledges how successful the first two games were. That same group from `98 is still here. We may be older and potbellied but we're still here. Just go to ttlg.com and see for yourselves. People are still playing fan made missions for TDP and TMA 10 plus years on for crying out loud.

Concentrate on these people. Forget new fans. New fans/ kids are too busy shooting and blowing up sh*t to buy into Thief's stealth mechanics.

I seriously doubt you can gain new fans without turning Garrett or his successor into some Niko Bellic type "protagonist".

What you can do is make a game that stays true to the original (TDS excluded of course) and i bet you the `98 group will make it GOTY.

When the kids learn of this, they'll give the demo a try and before you know it, you have your new fans.

It's that simple. At least in my head. I'm pretty sure none of this is gonna happen. T4 gonna try to pull in the new crowd by deviating and ultimately end up alienating the fanmen and giving the haters of this genre more reason to continue the hatin.

I can already see Adam Sessler and Morgan Webb making fun out of T4. IGN giving a 5/10 or some sh*t like that.

I'm sorry EM but this is my stand until i see the in-game video.

Here! Here! Here! Here! Here! F*****! Here!

Well said,

I couldn't have put it better myself.

I really hope the powers that be read this and take note of it, as it's really important and totally right i mean how can you hope to release an "upgrade" of a really sucessful game without any of the original developers, writers, artists etc etc??

Stephanie dude doesn't know if it will be Garrett or not or his voice? well can i just say if He can't say that it will definately be Garrett with his voice he should just forget the whole thing and change his career and send everyone home and don't waste their time and ours!! I mean don't even go there dude!

And "THI4F" you're really proud of that?? lol Please change it to THIEF 4

[jtr7]

Um... Stephane D'Astous and Eidos-Montréal (not Ubisoft) can really desire to have Garrett and the voice all they want, but if Stephen Russell doesn't agree to take the acting job, EM will have to go with Plan B or C.

It's been stated several times that THI4F is not the game's title, and that EM knows how we feel about it.

[Black Vine]

Um... Stephane D'Astous and Eidos-Montréal (not Ubisoft) can really desire to have Garrett and the voice all they want, but if Stephen Russell doesn't agree to take the acting job, EM will have to go with Plan B or C.

It's been stated several times that THI4F is not the game's title, and that EM knows how we feel about it.

Obviously i'm a bit outta touch then, but i'm glad to hear that the names been changed at least, hope they've managed to recruit some original staff from TDP and TMA and i really hope they don't turn this into a console game for 12 year olds just to make money, as it could be a great massive game if they just keep it the same as the two original versions that worked and made it what it was, if they just just enhance it with modern graphics and the like.

The original Thief was all about atmosphere and sound and puzzles that's why it worked more of that along with modern graphics is all that's needed to make a classic even better!!

[VIKTORIA]

UPDATE

Information ShadowFox shared with us from EM's Open House day, 15th November:

Concept art looks ace. Saw paintings of South quarter and other "untitled" parts of the city that the artists was working on during the day for people to see. All looks very steamy, dark and Thief-y. Some animations that were being worked on with the team look fantastic and they have animators that worked on Assassin's Creed and other big Ubisoft titles, which is only good for the animation.

Everyone I talked to was a huge fan and came to EM because they either wanted to work on Deus Ex 3 or Thief 4. From talking to Mario he said that all of the leads and senior team members know Thief inside out and are primarily focussed on creating a game that is really a part of the franchise, rather than just another game with the Thief name attached to it.

Progress is going well from talking to the team and they're in communication with previous devs as much as possible, with talks about a consultation contract underway, but unconfirmed.

Once I get the interviews transcribed and approved for the website I'll post links for anyone who's interested. In the meantime...

.....Stephen Russell was mentioned, though nothing confirmed

I have also added the above to first post/first page of this thread for easy reference. :thumb:

[dark_angel_7]

Well we now know that Eidos Montreal's 3rd game will be a whole group effort with Eidos & Square Enix working together for the first time on a "truly global" game.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/33274/Square-Enixs-first-global-game-to-be-made-in-Montreal

[VIKTORIA]

^
Yes, I wonder what the third game is likely to be. :scratch:

[esme]

Thi5f ?

:lol:

:flowers:

[massimilianogoi]

This is a real image of Montreal by night. Beautiful, isn't it. :)
If you try Google images and look for "Montreal By Night", for example, you will find some clearer images.

Anyway, just to update this thread. Current Thief dev team vacancies are:


* Special Effects Artist
* Senior Animator
* Senior Level Artist
* Art Tecnical Director
* UI Artist
* Character Artist Senior
* Programmer Audio
* Programmer Generalist Senior

Go here: http://www.eidosmontreal.com/

I'm level designer, could it be ok? :)

I have experience with T3 Editor, Photoshop CS 2, 3DS Max 5.1 and 2009, Sound Forge, Acid, Audacity. http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/icons/icon14.gif You can see some of my works on my Youtube channel below.

[VIKTORIA]

Just go ahead and apply, you never know. Good luck. :cool:

[esme]

good luck with the application

[Hecateus]

Thi5f ?

:lol:

:flowers:

Oddly, 'e' is the fifth letter in the alphabet.

[massimilianogoi]

Just go ahead and apply, you never know. Good luck. :cool:

What you mean?? For my missions, or for the work @ EM?

[jtr7]

For work at EM. Or were you kidding about working there? :)

[massimilianogoi]

For work at EM. Or were you kidding about working there? :)

Oh, wow, I didn't know that Viktoria was you, under false pretences http://www.ttlg.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[jtr7]

Whaaa--?? Naw, I'm just getting the info to you faster.

[massimilianogoi]

So, c'mon, jtr7, admit it! You are Viki and are mocking us all :lol::rasp::whistle::mad2::flowers:

[VIKTORIA]

jtr7 doesn't look anything like me! :eek:

:D

[jtr7]

I really don't. :D

[VIKTORIA]

^
That should throw them off the scent, damn taffers!

:naughty:

[DarknessFalls]

I was just reading someones post here about the MIGS and they thought it was good Assassin's Creed animators were working on T4. Aside from me hating Assassin's Creed, my main worry is that they will 'overdo' the animations to try to make the movements kewl. Look at the main character of AC. He walks around, swaying side to side all cool, and shoves people aside like he's a thug that owns the place. I hope the animators left that creative flamboyance with Ubisoft Montreal and realize subtlety is the answer for Thief.

Subtlety and quiet confidence in animations is what I think of for Thief. Not creative, over-the-top, unrealistic animations from animators seemingly trying to show off.

I don't want to see guards walking around all gangsta style. Or standing still with their arms folded, leaning back like they own the world. Thief takes place in past times... Not present day. I don't want real-world reminders in the animations. Maybe I'm being too nitpicky, but I just want Thief animations to be subtle.

[jtr7]

I strongly concur.

[Israfil]

Eidos Montreal,

isnt it a great time to share some info with us? pleassssse, think it is a christmas gift to the gamers. :p

[Specter]

I dont know what time zone you're in, but for myself, Christmas isnt for another 2 weeks. :-)

[CavaliereNero]

Alright, you want some inside information, I got it for you. Are you ready? ***SPOILER ALERT!!!! DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU WANT THE WHOLE GAME, NAY, THE WHOLE SERIES RUINED FOR YOU!!!! THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING!!!!***

...



.....



..

The game shall have numerous "stealth" missions as well as items to "steal". There! That is all I have to say at the moment. Merry Christmas!

[Namdrol]

We hope...

[CavaliereNero]

We hope...

Anything else would be BLASPHEMY! So sayeth the Master Builder!

[Vae]

Yes EM, for the 259th time...give us some info...:nut:

[Bono]

I will be surprised if they reveal anything about the game before the next (I mean next) Christmas.

[Blue Sky]

I will be surprised if they reveal anything about the game before the next (I mean next) Christmas.

What?! But...I mean, they've been working on this game for how long...must be at least three months?

Surely it must be ready by now?! What are they playing at?!

[kabatta]

I've got a spoiler for you: it will involve bottles of wine. All colors. Maybe even golden.

[Oon Kuka Oon]

I think they should keep with the original style in TDP and TMA. And they should keep it precisely.

[Mr. K]

jtr7 doesn't look anything like me! :eek:

:D

Uh huh...suuure. You can deny it all you want but at the end of the day you still can't hide from the truth.

[Myth]

Some information would be nice indeed.

[Pieter888]

I've got a spoiler for you: it will involve bottles of wine. All colors. Maybe even golden.

Now I'm definitely going to buy this game!

[VIKTORIA]

That's it! I shall not be called an imposter!! :mad:
My leaves are wilting at the very thought... :(

jtr7, please submit a photograph of your eyes and we shall have MrK compare yours and mine to see if he recognises any similarity whatsoever.

MrK, if you don't see any. You owe us both some Eidos choc-chip cookies, two bottles each of the finest vintage wine and a plateful of home-baked mince pies.

Merry Christmas to you. :p

[esme]

MINCE PIES!!!!

I knew there was something I needed to get *runs off to shops"

[kin]

Rene is it possible to tell us what kind of new info could we expect when EM decides to release it? I mean will it be some screens, artwork, or just some development info?

Rene

When the time comes, I can only speculate right now but it'll likely be some of the core gameplay, design, and story elements. High-level stuff like the overall plot idea, some of the main characters, artistic direction, key gameplay elements, etc., along with lots of concept art and a few early screenshots. That's just a guess at this point though.

The next time we get news it will be "complete" news.
To be honest i prefer a late update but a generous one, and it will be late if we get all of the above at once.

[Pieter888]

I remember that in in the taffers photo album thread, jtr7 provided a pic of himself. now victoria did too (well... only the eyes) and the only thing they have in common is there passion for thief :p Like all taffers in here. look it up for yourself! the thread was called taffers photo album.

[VIKTORIA]

Sssssh! Don't tell MrK to do that. :eek:
We want the cookies, wine and mince pies out of this! :D

[Pieter888]

Now i get all cookies for pointing that out. dont worry though vic. i'll let you know how they tasted :p

[jtr7]

EGADS!










































































http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/JTR7sEyes_ZOMG.jpg








Mr.K needs apologize to them Lady of the Greens!





:flowers::flowers::flowers::flowers:









Oh the trauma!

[Pieter888]

...see, jtr7 isn't victoria. MrK however IS! *major plot twist* Can i apply for storywritter now?

[NewHorizon]

I would just like to hear some official news on what engine they're using and if Garrett will be the main character again. Certainly no fear of spoilers from that info.

[jtr7]

I'd like to know what corporate business formula they go by for what they release or not and why. Why is the waiting tension of the potential customers, when followed by explosive anger and unforgiving disrespect, worth more than cultivating loyalty? Are the high initial sales of high-emotive customers releasing that tension from the wait more than the sales of larger numbers of loyal repeat customers? Is that why they do it? It's across the entertainment industry, though there are companies proving the formula is not best.

[VIKTORIA]

Unfortunately, it is far too early to receive further news and information at this point in time. We have no choice but to continue to wait patiently and enjoy discussing our ideas and hopes for Thief IV. :thumb:

[jtr7]

Yep!

[esme]

the problem is, is that we appear to have put in all the ideas we have got and are now either repeating them or arguing about them, I can't think of a single post that's come up with a new idea for the last couple of months, I can't see that changing without feedback, too early or no

[jtr7]

And if we came up with some really great new ones, EM would have to pay us royalties.

[esme]

no by putting them on here we've put them in the public domain, they are officially free for use by anyone once we hit submit, so no royalties

you want royalties you need to submit your ideas privately


....well there go my plans for world domination ;)

[jtr7]

Correct! Our publicly shared intellectual property making them money. If we changed 100% of the pronouns, they could still come after us if we tried to make money on our ideas they claimed for themselves. Sick stuff. :lol:

[esme]

tbh I don't care if I make them money however unlikely it is that they will pick up on any of my ideas as long as we get a decent Thief game at the end of it

[jtr7]

Heh. I'm not being serious, you know. :flowers:


And my point is not about them making money, it's us getting gypped. I would hope that if ideas were taken that they were implemented well. It would be horrible to recognize our ideas in the game and see them implemented badly.

[VIKTORIA]

the problem is, is that we appear to have put in all the ideas we have got and are now either repeating them or arguing about them, I can't think of a single post that's come up with a new idea for the last couple of months, I can't see that changing without feedback, too early or no

This is true, there is little more we can add at this stage. But, whilst we sit it out for further news, we have created "The Order of the Scribe" challenge... so that the 'very best' posts, so far, can be recognised and the winners take pride of place in Keeper Diary thread. At the moment, so many wonderful thoughts, wishes and ideas have been expressed on this forum and it is such a shame that many are lost inside long threads and conversations.

Now, the OotS thread is gathering cobwebs due to only one person offering-up their work. So, please may I remind anyone and everyone who are bored with repeating themselves and/or arguing with each other, to participate if they so wish. Go here:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=98414

You are free to either copy and paste a post you have already created, or post a new one that you believe represents your 'best ever', on any particular topic. The devs are reading, so let's give them the 'crème de la crème', so to speak. :thumb:

[jtr7]

Personally, I agree wholeheartedly with too many eloquent posts from among my many peers, and thinking back on them overwhelms me to think about digging so many of them back up, and then there are all the brilliant pieces of many posts that just nail the topics. Also, I'm not comfortable voting for myself, so I won't be submitting my own writings. And finally, for myself, this contest feels too much like a schoolwork assignment. I've been thinking on this contest and concept and find the effort is quickly not fun to work toward, nor worth the effort expended. As you know, even the Keeper Diary thread is oft overlooked, and what is really important is remembering the correct key words, and hoping they are spelled correctly. For myself, to write a new post for submission would be no different than what I've always done, and I will just end up repeating myself later according to whom I'm responding to, anyway, even if I linked to the contest post.

The stated end goals of the contest I agree with very much (besides the author's name getting special treatment, which is a very specific benefit to only one or a few persons), but my own perception of how to attain those end goals, with or without this contest both, becomes a clerical organizational job on my end, and I believe, on everybody's end. If anyone can demonstrate that isn't true, then we need to see that demo to get the contest rolling. I haven't thought of anything better, and were I to choose a post, it wouldn't be the "best", but the first "this is good" I rediscovered. I do not see one as being best, and I would have to reread them all, or even skim them slowly, to be anywhere close to honest and not just handing off the prize. It's nothing easy for me, sorry, Lady of the Vine.

[evilblizz]

When did you announced Thief 4 ? 11 may 2009
What date is it now ? 21 dec 2009
Let's calculate .... a little math ! = 224 days
Conclusion : After 224 days you don't have anything on thief 4 not even a screen shot. That is funny.
Hopes : really hope you can manage to even finish what you started (if you started)!

[jtr7]

Oh boy.

[Pieter888]

“All human wisdom is summed up in two words - wait and hope”
-Alexandre Dumas Père

[VIKTORIA]

When did you announced Thief 4 ? 11 may 2009
What date is it now ? 21 dec 2009
Let's calculate .... a little math ! = 224 days
Conclusion : After 224 days you don't have anything on thief 4 not even a screen shot. That is funny.
Hopes : really hope you can manage to even finish what you started (if you started)!

Perhaps it is just as well that you are not a Deus Ex (3) fan...

[evilblizz]

Perhaps it is just as well that you are not a Deus Ex (3) fan...

I can wait ... but really no word about the progress ....not even a level finished yet ?

I can say that I'm making Thief 5 and leave you waiting ...

[jtr7]

It wouldn't be normal if there was a finished anything, right now, and EM has made it clear they are reticent to show anything unfinished or anything they are not yet proud to show as is. Seriously, it isn't just EM, and if you look at the other forums, you will see the fans begging, demanding, threatening, etc., about seeing new material. Nothing unusual is happening here. LGS was unusual in their generosity, but they are gone. They spoiled the hell out of me. I don't think a week has gone by without one or more of us mentioning we'd like to see something, so don't think you are alone or in a minority.




Something I find interesting in a way that it's easy to read into it, is the fact that Deus Ex 3 was announced with a teaser trailer. Thief 4 was announced with a logo that had been hidden behind a black "sticker". Does this in anyway indicate that they full-well know Thief 4 will be a niche-market product? If they wanted to bring Thief 4 into a larger market, a more overt announcement with a teaser would've helped with that, eh? Instead, it was pretty much we fans that were all over it, and why would they announce it to the non-fans and the not-yets ( :p ) in such a relatively subtle manner? Only the fans would spot and "get" the marketing with the hidden logo, the "T"easer, and the rest would be journalists and gaming mags, and we saw how so many of them just published the announcement without commentary, and how some of the commentary was accurate about Thief's place in gaming history but a lot was not. Unless EM surprises us, gifts us, with a release of something special, so far we are getting a lot less to haggle over. Why else might that be?

[Voodoo]

yes some new information would be most welcome by all of us im sure it would make xmas all that more special for us all in favour?

p.s im sure they have been working on Thief 4 more than 3 months I have a feeling those job advertisments were a ruse im sure they have had enough staff for a while.

[VIKTORIA]

Many decisions for the new game are still in progress, and because things can easily change it is impossible for EM to share information at this point, sorry.
It must be said - it is going to be quite some time yet before we receive any solid details.

[jtr7]

p.s im sure they have been working on Thief 4 more than 3 months...

Yes, nine months, from April 'til now.

[esme]

what's the old joke ... unskilled labour can produce a new human being in 9 months

ooo this just in, a new T2 FM: The Sun Within and The Sun Without v1.3 (December 23rd, 2009)

link - http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130260

[jtr7]

Well, EM's used the T4 announcement font in this Flash-banner image, instead of a neutral or DX font, as well as the back-lit blue steam. A little wink for the taffers, this holiday season?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/EM_December2009.jpg

[Platinumoxicity]

And that is all we're going to get regarding T4 the entire year. The change of the background color of their site. "Merry christmas, dear fans. We won't tell you sh.t."

[kin]

Well, EM's used the T4 announcement font in this Flash-banner image, instead of a neutral or DX font, as well as the back-lit blue steam. A little wink for the taffers, this holiday season?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/EM_December2009.jpg

They also use DX3 font for thi4f recruitment hot jobs, so probably it means nothing.

[jtr7]

That's what I'm saying, that the DX3 stuff has been more prominent all over the site, so now T4 has been given more presence. The weights in the pans have shifted in our favor, however temporarily. It's a little more balanced...

[kin]

https://twitter.com/eidosmontreal

We're enjoying all the news coming out of CES!

What news?

[Hecateus]

https://twitter.com/eidosmontreal


What news?

Not much from EM I gather.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2009/jan/11/ces-games

[theweeman]

Hi folks first post, but been lurking for a while.

I have had a look through posts but i aint seen anything about it yet, I was looking on Play.com and they have thief 4 on pre order. Says Due for release on 26/03/2010.

Surely not.

http://www.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/9975984/Thief-4/Product.html

[Vae]

Not...we probably have another 1.5 - 2 years until release.

[jtr7]

It's too bad EM can't (or won't??) communicate with these retailers and tell them to knock it off. The least those companies can do is say they don't know, TBA, or get an official estimate.

[hulde gran]

Not...we probably have another 1.5 - 2 years until release.

2 years! I hope not.

[jtr7]

They haven't even been working on it for 1 year, yet.




Another interview with Yoichi Wada (Thanks Namdrol!): http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/an-audience-with-yoichi-wada?page=0%2C0
Are you currently handling Square Enix’s European and North American developers differently from your Japanese staff?
Our studios, until the very end, are independent. So, for example, Eidos Montreal is continuing the way it has been. But our business backend is being centralised. We want to make the best of the local talent without interfering on that level, but to manage our revenue to the best of its potential by controlling our business decisions and seeing the big picture. Eidos, for example, has some very good IP, and they have diversified into different areas in the way that we merchandise our IP at Square Enix, but they haven’t been as successful at monetising it. I think there’s a better way to generate revenue from those IPs. And, indeed, the majority of success we’ve had in merchandising our IP with Square Enix has been within Japan, but in future expect to see us to expand this globally in a more aggressive manner.

[esme]

2 years! I hope not.

at least, possibly longer, last I heard they were still recruiting

[theweeman]

Well i did think it was a bit to soon, after what i read on here. I would have thought it illegal or something to advertise like that. Knowing full well that it is not going to be released on that date.

[VIKTORIA]

It isn't illegal to invite pre-orders; so long as the company doesn't charge your credit card - which they don't until they know they can despatch.

Still a pain though... very misleading. :nut:

[esme]

totally off topic but this tickled me the other dayWerner Heisenberg, Kurt Gödel, and Noam Chomsky walk into a bar.

Heisenberg turns to the other two and says, "Clearly this is a joke, but how can we figure out if it's funny or not?"

Gödel replies, "We can't know that because we're inside the joke."

Chomsky says, "Of course it's funny. You're just telling it wrong."

[Pieter888]

totally off topic but this tickled me the other day

:nut:

[esme]

well it made me laugh ;)

[Namdrol]

And me (but I did have to check the Gödel reference ;))

[jtr7]

Of cursory interest, noted topical trends in the news, with regional stats:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=thief+4&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0


But of actual interest, Paul Weir at earcom will be crafting the sounds of Thief 4:
http://www.earcom.net/index.html
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1954872

[VIKTORIA]

I've updated first post/first page of this thread with the news regarding Paul Weir.

[jtr7]

:cool: :thumb:

[esme]

my god it's full of stars

WE GOT FOUND SOME ACTUAL NEEEEEEEEWWWWWWSSS!!!!!

:D

[Namdrol]

We found some actual news.
:rolleyes:

[VIKTORIA]

Haha, yes. Sorry. :p
I think this particular news was up to Paul Weir to confirm/make public before EM took the liberty to do so.
EM can now do the same, so first post/first page of this thread is updated.

[VIKTORIA]

First post/first page of this thread updated with latest news from Rene:

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to post a picture of Paul since he's been in Montréal working with the Thief 4 team for a few days now! Here he is with Thief 4's Producer, Mario (on the right-hand side):

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/ares7777/paulmario_small.jpg

The reason I'm posting this is because I've seen some posts with concern about the fact that Paul is mostly working out of his London studio. He is of course working closely with the dev team and although I can't predict the future, I can only imagine he'll be here many many times over the course of development!

Like Paul himself responded to a few posts over at TTLG, I wanted to post this picture taken today to let everyone know that the development team is keeping an eye on the forums and what everyone is talking about! Sorry we can't say more at this time but stay tuned. Now I have to get back to work on Deus Ex 3!

René

[esme]

see see see that's dark project and metal age on the shelf behind them yaaaaaaaaay :D

[jtr7]

That's René's desk (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=957103&postcount=319). Including games he purchased back in the day as an employee of Electronics Boutique (Mike Chrzanowski was an employee of the company, too, and filled Shipping... and Receiving with many in-jokes and references to his time there). If only René was working on Thief 4 itself. Although, we can only hope he agrees with us, and points out our favorite posts for the other devs when they aren't spotting them themselves. :p

[Hypevosa]

I do like how the center of the picture is TMA - maybe a tiding of good fortune for us :D

[jtr7]

Heh heh. :p

[kin]

News coming too slowly.
I already lost my interest in thief 4:(

[jtr7]

Lost interest in Thief 4, or lost interest in following the forums waiting for news?

[kin]

Lost interest in Thief 4?

What thief 4?

[jtr7]

News coming too slowly.
I already lost my interest in thief 4:(

And now he's losing his mind! :eek:


Don'tcha got any witty and scathing macros to express your disappointment and keep us entertained? :whistle::D

[VIKTORIA]

Haha! :D

[Pieter888]

What thief 4?

Yet still, you're here...

[jtr7]

Might this be applicable to Thief 4, in ways that have nothing to do with filling maps with AI?
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=100436

[esme]

hmmm how smart are those AI's, sounds like they are relatively dumb and used for large groups

so could Thief 4 support smart AI for interaction and dumb AI for crowds and background ?

smart AI have more vocal interactions, conversations, have fight/flight, more complex behaviours, scripting and so on

dumb AI have limited vocals, and can be ko'd, killed or flee while drawing attention of the smart AI otherwise they follow simple routes and behave like mobile scenery

that's the sort of thing I'm thinking of

interesting, we could use some info from EM about this before we start speculating too wildly

[jtr7]

Or we could speculate wildly, knowing we haven't got enough of a clue yet. :p

[Vladimyre]

They love their jack links jerky even in Canada Aye? hehehe

[esme]

or we could pitch a fit and scream until we are sick in the hope EM will give us more info ..... too much ? ... too much ;)

[Vladimyre]

In space no one can hear your banjo, but on internet forums no one can here you ( or anyone else ) have a hissy fit :)

[jtr7]

What a coincidence! I'm chewing on Jack's Links Peppered Beef Jerky right now! :)

[Vladimyre]

What a coincidence! I'm chewing on Jack's Links Peppered Beef Jerky right now! :)

It's also in the picture that they just added in the update for the first post in this thread, it's like a where's waldo can you find it? :)

[jtr7]

"Teriyaki." :p

[Vladimyre]

"Teriyaki." :p

I kinda thought it was the jalapeno kind, I thought I saw green in there with that yellow.

edit:

I stand corrected it is indeed the Teriyaki. Sorry my bad :)

[esme]

It's also in the picture that they just added in the update for the first post in this thread, it's like a where's waldo can you find it? :)

it's between the two monitors

[jtr7]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513nvhm4sfL._SL160_AA160_.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61R8NNpIqrL._SL160_AA160_.jpg

LOL!:D

[VIKTORIA]

I rather like Rene's orange-coloured lava lamp. :thumb:

[Vladimyre]

I rather like Rene's orange-coloured lava lamp. :thumb:

I would have to agree, but since I have yet to have lunch the beef jerky kind of stood out :lol:

[esme]

anyone spot the Serenity poster ?

--edit--

I rather like Rene's orange-coloured lava lamp. :thumb:

I have two red ones, I'd quite like an orange one, I find them relaxing

[jtr7]

Removed from the TDS Health Potion container, the orange stuff inside would fit right into the center of a tall chamber of the Maw, in a slowly-swirling, thick, orange column.

[esme]

they have to get inspiration from somewhere ;)

[jtr7]

And ya know, the first time I got a good look at a health potion in TDS, I immediately thought of a lava lamp. Classic red.

[hulde gran]

Boooooooring....
i've just finished mass effect 2 and assassin's creed 2. Then i come back here and.... NO NEWS!!!!
I'm going to die because i'm soooo bored...

What should i have for dinner? Pizza or hamburgers?

[esme]

I fancy pizza, thick crust, extra olives and extra pepperoni on my half please :D

thin crust if you really must

[jtr7]

I don't think this was ever linked on this here Thief 4 forum, but it was linked at the Deus Ex 3 forum back when the article was fresh:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3146/better_living_through_order_an_.php?page=1

I hope the faithful fans will read it carefully and note exactly what D'Astous is saying, and how it's exactly what others have been preaching to the doubtful.

[Namdrol]

The Lava lamp was originally from Poole in Dorset near were I grew up. And in fact the European ones are still made there.
Just ignore my off topic ramblings :)

[Nephthys]

very good interview!
I hope we can apply all the things said about Deus Ex 3 to Thief 4. :D

[esme]

...and still no one has spotted the "Serenity" poster

[VIKTORIA]

^ I think the lava lamp is taking all the glory.

[esme]

since it's in front of the poster it would ;)

[jtr7]

Oh sorry, I forgot to say I did spot the Serenity poster. :cool:

[esme]

ok your turn to find a "wally" for people to spot ;)

[Pieter888]

A new article popped up recently on google trends when searching for thief 4:

google trends (http://www.google.com/trends?q=thief+4)
The actual article (http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2010/02/05/thief-4-and-deus-ex-3-will-be-taken-to-another-level/)

Nothing of this is really news though... just contributing...

[Vae]

Quote from Stephane D’Astous:

“I think the challenges lie in that they were very well recognised and appreciated before in the past, but they need to be taken to another level. We need to make these games very attractive and accessible to a wider audience without diluting the content.”

:(...I'm really worried now.

[Namdrol]

That's taken from Shadowfoxes interview

[Vae]

That doesn't relieve the worry...

[AbysmalGale]

Quote from Stephane D’Astous:

“I think the challenges lie in that they were very well recognised and appreciated before in the past, but they need to be taken to another level. We need to make these games very attractive and accessible to a wider audience without diluting the content.”

:(...I'm really worried now.

I second your worries. Since Thief 4 will have to attract a wider audience it's highly unlikely that it will be able to live up to the high standards that Thief 1&2 did. The first two games were highly experimental, especially the first title, and when the team developed Thief 2 they LISTENED to the hardcore fans. Now it's too much about the money.

[Blue Sky]

Quote from Stephane D’Astous:

“I think the challenges lie in that they were very well recognised and appreciated before in the past, but they need to be taken to another level. We need to make these games very attractive and accessible to a wider audience without diluting the content.”

:(...I'm really worried now.

Worried? You WANT them to "dilute the content"?

What he says there should be rejoiced!

[Namdrol]

accessible to a wider audience is PR speak for dumbing down

[AbysmalGale]

accessible to a wider audience is PR speak for dumbing down

Exactly!

[jordan_a]

Hello everyone!

I need T: DS "objective complete" sound file for a map.

Can it be found?

Thank you very much.

[jtr7]

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=1272548#post1272548

[VIKTORIA]

accessible to a wider audience is PR speak for dumbing down

Not necessarily... let's wait and see. :)

[evilblizz]

eidos is a mean kid with a magnifying glass!!!!!

he's torturing us.... hate iu !!!!!

[jtr7]

ssssssssstzssszs-POP!

[kin]

I showed EM site to a friend of mine that has no idea what thief is about
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/
And he thought it was a store selling mugs and tshirts :nut:... seriously.
I believe after that the site needs a change immediately even if there are no news, for example put Garrett in the background and maybe also I regain my interest in the game, who knows;)

[jtr7]

Thanks for trying to help, even as you are disinterested! :p


EM's still recruiting more than marketing. I wonder why Square-Enix isn't doing something more for public interest and even just to get Thief and what it's about into the public consciousness.

[jtr7]

Happy Anniversary, EM! (http://www.eidosmontreal.com/)

http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files/images/Eidos3AnniversaryBannerTopE1.jpg
http://www.eidosmontreal.com/files/images/Eidos3AnniversaryBannerBottomE1.jpg


Haha! :p

[VIKTORIA]

Congratulations to Eidos Montreal. :flowers:

[Yaphy]

I really hope we get some more news soon. At least until E3 2010.

[kin]

Rene could tell us if there are any deadlines set for the next news.

[jtr7]

It would be nice to know now if EM will touch on T4 at E3 in a sort of non-recruitment kinda way at all, like with a banner of concept art at a booth, or something.

[Vladimyre]

Due to media coverage studios go into high output mode to get things ready to show off for E3. Usually because of that there's little to no info until maybe a week before as people are so busy prepping for E3. Finalizing builds of games, and of course marketing.

[jtr7]

Except EM.

[VIKTORIA]

It would be nice to know now if EM will touch on T4 at E3 in a sort of non-recruitment kinda way at all, like with a banner of concept art at a booth, or something.

I'll alert Rene to this thread and perhaps he can answer this question.

[jtr7]

:cool: :thumb:

[René]

Hello. To be honest, probably not. Thief is still early in development and Deus Ex is up first! :)

[jtr7]

Thanks.


Well, so far there's been less T4 than DX3 anything released. DX3 had a teaser, and banners hanging up at conventions early on.

[scribeman]

Hello. To be honest, probably not. Thief is still early in development and Deus Ex is up first! :)

Oh René, how you raise hopes and dash them quite expertly.

I've never paid any attention to these types of conferences; although I'm an avid gamer it just seems strange to me.

I really hope that this comes to be. I've been playing Thief since the days when 512 mbs was a big deal for computer memory. I know that stealth gamers aren't the profitable ticket for the gaming production industry, but I have hope :)

[kin]

Hello. To be honest, probably not. Thief is still early in development and Deus Ex is up first!

So deus ex will be in the next E3?

[René]

It's a definite possibility!

[kin]

t's a definite possibility!
That's good. Thief fans could see thief engine in action. Both games will use the same engine right?

[esme]

That's good. Thief fans could see thief engine in action. Both games will use the same engine right?
oooo nice try there kin :flowers:

[Yaphy]

@ kin. Did you do the big questionmarks yourself or did someone else put them there? I noticed that you wrote: So deus ex will be in the next E3. first and then it was changed in to So deus ex will be in the next E3?

[kin]

@ kin. Did you do the big questionmarks yourself or did someone else put them there? I noticed that you wrote: So deus ex will be in the next E3. first and then it was changed in to So deus ex will be in the next E3?

Yes I changed them in fear that they wouldn’t be answered if there wasn’t a question mark.

[Abru]

That's good. Thief fans could see thief engine in action. Both games will use the same engine right?

Here we go: :D

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?p=3879109

Tools Programmer
Eidos Montreal - Thief 4
(Computer Games industry)
October 2008 — Present (10 months)
- Development of the gameplay prototype and the editor from scratch, based on C#/WinForms/XNA.
- Improvements in the game editor (Unreal 3) for gameplay and level-design needs.
- Setup of the build process in pre-production phase.

DX3 - CD Engine
Thief 4 - Unreal Engine 3? :)

[Namdrol]

I don't know if his profile page has been changed but it now shows this -



...Olivier Caudrelier’s Experience...
November 2009 — Present (5 months)

Working a completely new animation pipeline for an undisclosed project.
*
Tools Programmer
Eidos Montreal

(Computer Games industry)

October 2008 — November 2009 (1 year 2 months)

Thief4 Project:

- Developed the gameplay prototype (C#/XNA)
- Analyzed and setup the build pipeline during the concept stage.
- Worked on several tools (improvements in the editor, curve editor, improvements in the engine to match our needs).


So it seems he's working on the mystery 3rd project (the joint venture withSqEn}

And nothing is mentioned now about engine. Hmm...

Edit, that post at the TR forum was back in July, seems as if Thief may be on the Unreal Engine. Nice find Abru

[VIKTORIA]

Yes, very nice find. Thank you. :thumb:

[Pieter888]

Alright! unreal 3!
also i spotted XNA, I love that game studio, should I go apply then? :P

[Bono]

I really don't see the point in making two games on two very different engines. It will take EM techincal specialists, as well as the QA team, twice more time to get accustomed to the tools and assets.

And if they are using UE3, why don't they use it for DX3 too? UE3 has been around for a while, not that it has appeared just yesterday.

[kin]

Some news
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=102066

[Pieter888]

Some news
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=102066

Not really thief related but interesting nonetheless.:thumb:

[esme]

I wonder what the timescale is on the release of a similar image for Thief 4

[jtr7]

Another year. Although, they've already not been releasing as much for T4 as they did for DX3.

[esme]

probably more like eighteen months then :(

I'm not sure I can deal with going round in ever decreasing circles for that long, I may have to take a break

[jtr7]

Yeah. We have to learn to cope constructively, heh heh.

[VIKTORIA]

Click Online, issue one features interview with Stephane D'Astous (and second part will be shown in issue two):

http://www.clickonline.com/

Click on the magazine to open and read, flick through to page 68. :)

[esme]

"thief is an RPG but in a different sense"
"we need to make these games attractive and accessible to a wider audience without diluting the content"
"with these two titles we are coming to the end of the lifecycle of the existing consoles so it's at this time that you really need to push the existing technology. There are things in the works but I can't discuss"
"if you want to inject a trendy feature that is not truly compatible then it will show"

nice article, he knows what he's talking about and understands game building and design

but Mr D'Astous could be a politician for all he actually said about Thief

that eighteen months is still looking like a looooong time

[DarknessFalls]

I wonder what the timescale is on the release of a similar image for Thief 4
Although the image is cool, I'd much rather see an in-game screenshot than a CG one.It tells us more. I could make a sweet looking CG trailer for Berzerk on the Atari 2600. (That's wouldn't be setting anyone up for a let-down, lol.) I sometimes think game makers probably spend way too money creating CG movies to promote their games. Hope EM doesn't waste too much money on a slick CG movie for Thief when they could be using that money toward making a better game. At this point, I would take anything I could get from EM, though. I mirror Esme's sentiment; it may be time for a break soon (or far less activity anyways)...

[hikikomori-san]

that eighteen months is still looking like a looooong time
Completely off-topic, but anyway, after 5 days I will be sent to prison following a tragic car accident for an estimated period of 1 to 2 years. The reason I'm saying this is because I just realized that in all honesty, as pathetic as it sounds, the thing I will be looking forward to get out of prison for the most is Thief 4. I just hope I will not find myself regretting getting out of prison when I first lay my hands on it ;) Well at least I can rest assured there are lots of hardcore old school fans who never seem to tire fending off lameness and foreign preposterousness, fighting the tides of unwelcome "advancement" and commercialization, and satisfyingly expressing the community's vision which I share of a truly beautiful masterpiece of a Thief sequel. Rock on, taffers.

[Namdrol]

Stay cool and strong hikikomori-san.
Head down and learn to meditate.
And hey, we'll still be here waiting when you get out ;)

[jtr7]

Wow. Okay man. Hang in there.

And...what Nam' said.

[glyph07]

Rock on, taffers.

U can be sure we will. :)

[Pieter888]

It's good to have something to look out to when in prison, makes time go faster. When we have nothing to look forward to, we are doomed.

Don't let prison get you down hikikomori-san! :flowers:

[hikikomori-san]

I'm not worried at all - I've broken in and out of Cragscleft and out of Pavelock prison many times, how difficult can breaking out of a real prison be? :nut:
Thanks, everybody. Thank you. :group_hug:

[VIKTORIA]

Same sentiments here, hikikomori-san. Wishing you all the best and awaiting your soonest return... :flowers:

[esme]

ouch! you take care hikikomori-san see you when you get back

[Vae]

Adios amigo...:flowers:

[Voodoo]

God be wit you man stay up and keep praying.

[Yaphy]

So they are still recruiting people?
Even though they aint at full capacity yet they still do some work right?

[jtr7]

They've been working non-stop, and yes, they're still recruiting. Their still hiring for DX3, too.